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Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-02-10 05:10:14

Just wondered how many if you guys have experienced the Ill-fated "blown power transformer" problem with DT-25 and DT-50's that Line 6 won't acknowledge because of the cost it would require to fix it?



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by jeffwatt on 2013-02-14 10:35:46

I'm a not-so-proud member of this club. After almost of year of regular use, my DT-50 212 started blowing fuses mid-December. It came back from servicing six weeks later, with--you guessed it--a new power transformer. Unfortunately, the amp had also returned with a nasty buzzy hum across all topologies--a problem the music store is trying to resolve to this day. I've been two months without it at this point... frustrating, to say the least!



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-02-17 19:19:31

It's really a shame because the DT-50 is truly a great sounding amp but the power transformer problem is going to kill millions of dollars of sales because people will discover the problem when they start researching the amp before they buy it. There are lots of posts online everywhere about it. Bogner's feet should be held to the fire on this one and they should offer to fix the problem or revise the amp design and reissue it. I hope Line 6 does not ignore this problem for the sake of profits. They could turn a negative thing into a positive thing by taking care of their customers (which it appears that they are doing) which would foster more confidence in their products. My DT-50 has died 3 times in 14 months due to a bad transformer and I only played it for 30 mins twice a week.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-02-18 06:48:55

I'm a member.  I've had the amp for over a year.  To say I've gotten 20 hours of play out of it is an exorbidant estimate.

Very sad.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by hzpyzs on 2013-02-18 20:39:48

Yes I am a member as well. I was hoping this was only a DT50 issue ? Do DT25's have this issue as well ? Line 6 apparently offered to ship my service center a used tranformer from another amp in for repairs or ship me a new one. Either one was $128 my cost.  I am out of warranty, but, sending me a used part , because they know they have a issue, for free, would have been world class. Offering to send me a used one, right now,  for $128, in case I really needed it for a gig, was nice. But I will pass ... Although since it is pretty clear that the problem has not been addressed, I am just getting the same part that failed once already.

I had some hours on mine, at ;east 200.  I was thinking tubes where in my near future, but wasn't thinking about this type of thing.  I was hoping having a DT25 and a DT50 2x12 meant I wouldn't need to think about buying any amps for, well many many years. Time will tell I guess.

So I lost out on the Guitar Port, last year. Which I thought was really a cool pratice/learning tool, and made me Line 6 fan. I have had my DT25 in the shop twice (tubes, no suprise) and now I am hearing my beloved DT's might have transformer issues. I lost faith in Fender amps over issues with the Mustang series and how they handled it. Hopefully Line 6 does a better job addressing this issue. A faulty batch of tranformers or issues with a supplier would seem easy enough to fix to a layman. Rumour was on the Fender boards that the fizz issues many people had (myself included) were with the design and therefore could not be easily addressed. Fender released a statement that in summary said, technology moves forward, we feel these amps are still a good value and please consider our new tube based modeling amp if your not happy. People went nuts and I sold mine.

I went with a DT50 which I found a good choice and a good value considering it's flexibility. It's not Line 6's first tube based modeling amp is what I was thinking. But here I am again wondering what the root cause of a issue at least several people are having is. The fact that Line 6 is out tranformers at the moment  and couldn't provide a eta, is not all that encouraging. Neither is the fact that  they offered me a used part. Since that would indicate to me that the new part will be no different then the one I had or the ones already in their shop.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-02-20 06:24:14

I have seen several posts where the DT-25s are experiencing the same problems. Not sure if the circuit is causing the power transformers to blow or if it's just a poor designed component that they need to replace it with a better one. They need to do something though because consumers are reporting this problem all over the 'net and losing confidence in this product which is going to end up costing them a lot more in the end due to lost sales. It's one of the best sounding amps I've played but that doesn't matter because the reliability of the amps is a super deal breaker for most consumers.  I do know that the relays in the amp which give it different topologies causes power surges in the circuit and that the XLR output jack is tied to an output transformer (don't know if it's tied to the power transformer though; I'm just repeating what I've read several times in this regard) and it pops when you turn off the power; I always put my amp in standby when I turn it off and it still doesn't help. My amp is connected to the PA system through the XLR output jack at all times so I don't know if that has anything to do with it either but I doubt it. I hope they resolve this issue soon or it's going to cost 'em.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by talwilkins on 2013-02-20 06:42:40

I've had my DT-25 for about half a year now without problems, using it with my POD HD 500. I hope it stays that way but I am worried.

If found that if I leave it on standby for a couple of minutes (maybe one is enough) it doesn't pop when I turn it of.

I also have made sure I don't swith from class A to A/B all the time because that also gives a pop. I did this by changing two of the amps I use to A/B and adjusted the volume.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-02-21 06:00:16

Well believe it or not I really don't use any other topologies than I (Fender) and Class A/B for the most part so it wasn't caused by switching to other topologies or class. I dabbled with III but it was too noisy and didn't give me what sounded like a true VOX amp type tone. To be honest the Fender Mustang Floor unit that I bought for $169 did a much better job running direct into the PA system (no I'm not kidding; pick one up yourself and you'll see I'm telling the truth). It sounded like an AC30 and I've played many of them.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-02-28 06:48:46

CONFIRMED!

I am a member.  The repair facility advises me the part will not ship until Mid-April.

That works out to a minimum of 2 months downtime.

OUTSTANDING!



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-02-28 10:59:06

You want to really laugh?!?!?

I just ordered another.

$1000 for a new unit - $155 for a 2 year warranty



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spaceatl on 2013-03-01 09:13:28

I am curious, how many folks in the club have been using attenuators?...

It really stinks to blow a power tranny and my own thought is that it is likely a batch of defectives....But that is just a guess based on no good data at all...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-01 10:01:18

I started using the Dr. Z Airbrake attentuator just over a month before.

Set the master between 1-2:00



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by jeffwatt on 2013-03-01 17:25:25

I had been using a Weber Mass Lite 100W since last March (10 months before experiencing issues with the fuse and power transformer). Master between 10-11:00.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-02 15:22:11

I received my amp back from repair yesterday and it works, however whoever repaired it left one of the screws halfway unscrewed sticking up on top of my amp, put a ding in the front face of the amp like it fell over onto the edge of their desk, and apparently used a power drill screwdriver to turned the screws because quite a bit of the black paint and the thread head was eaten up. VERY UNPROFESSIONAL workmanship IMO. If I use a cordless screwdriver I run the screw down part of the way then use a regular screwdriver to finish it up. I though even dummies knew that. That amp was in pristine shape and didn't have a mark on it when I sent it go them and it was mailed to them in the box with all the padding. I'm contacting customer support Monday to see if they can get someone that's not high or in high school to work on it next time. I mean leaving a screw halfway out. Who does this type of thing? Either moving way too fast, high, or just didn't care IMO. I would never have done that to someone else's amp.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-02 15:24:52

BTW it was their Calabasa, CA repair center that did the work. Didn't have that experience from repair centers in NJ ot TX



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-03 15:39:09

Received my amp back from repair this Saturday after it's 3rd repair from a blown transformer. Plugged it in and it worked Saturday night and played it for about 30 mins. Tried to turn it on and it was DEAD this morning. Wouldn't power on. I went down the standard list; checked power cord to see if plugged in, all tubes glowing, speaker plugged in, fuse intact, the regular; completely dead again; looks like ANOTHER BLOWN TRANSFORMER. This will make the 4th time. Mind you I am powering up and down using the Standby switch and also have played a Fender and Rivera amp on the same circuit for 6 years without ANY problems whatsoever. No doubt it's the amp.

What are the odds of an amplifier's transformer blowing 4 times and other amplifiers working without incident on the same circuit for 6 years. The DT-50 is a problem amp. Sure it's nice and sounds good while it's working but who wants to play on an amp that you don't know if it's going to power on one day from the next. I am going to contact Line 6 Support first and see what they can do. If they are not willing to help I am going to make it my mission to get GC and affiliates to stop selling them until they get the problem solved. I'm sick of this situation. I have spent so much of my time and money trying to get this situation resolved; writing letters, getting copies of tech reports, driving the amp 40 mins to a repair facility, another time 20 miles just to mail it, and then again recently to resend it and I always send it to them in their own box with the padding just the way it came from the factory. The amp has always looked pristineand brand new until I received it back from the Calabasas facility where the tech obviously damaged it. If you're thinking about buying a DT-50, don't.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by Zhorell on 2013-03-04 22:19:30

What could have cause this blowing up tranny problem? Bogner's Power Amp design toggle Class A/AB & Pent/Triod switching?



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by innovine on 2013-03-05 00:13:52

You were complaining about your amp way back when the power transformer blew for the first and second times too. Makes me wonder why you keep on going and getting it serviced. Just get rid of it already and stop moaning and threatening lawsuits *yawn*



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-05 01:51:09

Maybe because I spent $1300 on an amp and thought that Line 6 would actually repair it so I could use it with the HD500? The fact that the HD500 paired with the DT-50 gives me accesss to multiple amplifier setups. Based on the tone of your comment and the character it reflects, I'm betting that you'd be one of the first to complain if the shoe were on the other foot.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-05 05:22:35

I created a ticket basically giving L6 the opportunity to contribute in some way to a positive outcome.

"Request:     If I have gotten 30 hours of use I would be surprised. I called your tech support last week and they told me to have the tubes checked. The L6 approved service center confirms blown power transformer. It's currently at (L6 approved) AMP services - 561 333 0335 address 3111 Fortune Way - Wellington Florida 33414 My extended GC warranty does not have this place approved but I wanted to use an L6 approved firm. They said the part will not ship until mid-april. I went ahead and ordered a replacement amp from GC - another DT50 112. This is in good faith to L6. I do hope, even though my warranty with you is recently expired, there can be some good faith action on your part. As you can see I use many of your products. Let me know - Peter K."



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by innovine on 2013-03-05 07:53:39

Sorry if my tone was harsh.

Do you often turn the amp selection control on the hd500 to cycle through the different models? This makes my dt25 click and pop as it changes topologies, and i am wondering if it stresses the amp.. (the fact that your fouth blew so soon suggests something else is wrong in the amp, some bit they didnt replace when servicing it.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by hzpyzs on 2013-03-05 17:37:22

This is not sounding good at all. I can't understand how after 4 attempts at fixing whitetop's amp, it dies after 30 minutes. They should of tested the crap out that thing. I hate internet bashing of comapnies and products on forums, I just usualy take my dollars elsewhere. I know nothing about what really goes on in any amp, even less about a DT50, but you would have too think something is going on slightly different with a amp that eats 4 transformers, other than just iffy parts. Hopefully Line 6 will make this right for you brother. I am lucky enough to have another amp for jamming and POD Farm to practice with, but if my DT50, (down for upto 3 months waiting for a transformer) was actually needed, I would be seriously thinking about looking at other companies.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-05 18:27:57

Well after speaking with customer service yesterday and laying out the timeline of when the amp broke down, when it was sent off and arrived back and how long it worked before breaking down again in addition to providing copies of the repair tags or work orders and taking pics of the damage that appears to have been done by their repair tech they set up a repair ticket so I'm sending it back one more time before giving up. People have asked me why I don't just give up. Well I really like the amp when it works and it integrates well and is made to work with the HD500. It's also been one of the best sounding amps I've had. I've got other pro-level amps that I can use while is in repair so I don't sweat it too much but I'm hoping they just send a new one because the body was damaged and there's something obviously wrong other than just the transformer.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-05 18:39:10

No problem, Innovine. This whole situation has just been a little stressful; haven't experienced it with other amp brands. Sorry if my tone sounded a little hostile as well; it was due to the amp situation and all the back and forth, writing letters, packing up and mailing the amp, waiting for weeks for it to come back then blowing once again, having to repeat the process.

As to the topologies and classes I generally don't change very much; usually on the Fender / I and Class A/B and rarely on the Marshall / II setting. Don't use it but about 30 mins twice a week at church.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by cw0401 on 2013-03-06 20:30:46

Hi,

I managed to blow my DT25 without even getting to play it and I fully admit it was all my fault.   Plugged the 120v into a 240v power point (Australia).  

Excuse my ignorance but does the power transformer have to be replaced by a service centre?   Can you use another power transformer or does it have to be the same type as the one in the Amp.   IE is there no 'generic' type that you can get?

If you do have to get it from Line 6 and its out of warrantee or not covered, can you get it sent to you and you fix it yourself or do you have to send it to a service center for them to do it?

Regards

CW



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-07 12:44:58

Well, my backup DT50 112 just arrived.

I'm either in love or a glutton for punishment... or both.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by theoptimizers on 2013-03-07 13:01:26

It's called "S&M".

You're the "M".



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by mikey7 on 2013-03-07 16:03:17

ME TOO............My DT 50 2X12 blew the power transformer about 5 mos out of warranty.

It cost $214 to fix plus 180 miles round trip drive to closest service center (picked it up last Saturday).

I like the tones of the DT and it works (for now), BUT I think I'm done. I'm considering swapping it out

for a pair of Tech 21 PE60's.

Does anybody here have any thoughts on that before I take the plunge? I posted on this

issue 2 days ago, and didn't receive a single comment.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-07 17:14:35

i wouldn't do it... .no how no way... big difference between solid state vs tube...

sure SS might have better reliability... but i'd rather deal with maintenance and tone on a tube amp.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-07 18:55:35

I'm a tube amp guy all the way too myself. Played SS amps for years but could never get the tone I wanted. Finally tried a tube amp and it was what I had been missing; never looked back



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by innovine on 2013-03-08 00:32:06

FYI I mentioned this to line6 technical support. They denied any problem and said if I use the amp as intended I wont have any issues. They suggest that people with defects are misusing the amp. Flipping both power and standby switch to ON at the same time was quoted as an example of misuse.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-08 03:53:00

Well the support guy I spoke with at Line 6 the other day said they weren't aware of any problems with their power transformers but I believe I detected a little deception in his voice (micotremor) and that's one of my skillsets at my job but he did the right thing anyway so doesn't matter. I don't ever use flip the standby and on switches at the same time. I know the standby switch is there to protect my amp and speakers. I hope they get this situation resolved and start carrying a better made transformer or diagnose what's causing them to blow because it's really a great sounding amp.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by innovine on 2013-03-08 07:20:05

Standby switch is there to protect your tubes. The main switch enables power to the tubes heaters, so you should wait 10-20 secs for them to warm up before switching the standby switch (enabling amplification by engaging the high voltage across the tubes). I've no idea if this would affect the power transformer though, I'm just relaying what i heard from line6 in case its relevant.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-08 08:58:55

Many of us have been playing, performing, writing and recording for many years.

Some folks have a lot of nerve.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spaceatl on 2013-03-08 10:36:06

I have been studying up since you guys starting the thread on this...There are a few other causes outside it simple being a defective power tranny that I have been trying to understand better...

Faulty Power Filter Capa or Faulty rectifier(s) is what I keep coming back around to...The operation of  the rectifier chages a bit between Class A and AB (current is basically at max in class A and current track the level in AB), so there could be two rectifiers I suppose....Anyway, if a rectifier fails shorted, it can kill the power filter caps...or the power filter cap is bad to start with as that can cause the rectifier to get hit with too much current, short out and take the tranny with it...sorta like a little terrorist...

But the more I think on this the more I think about the Power Filter Caps...Those fail two ways....Explode, burn and smoke and take your tranny out...Or they just quietly overload the power tranny...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-09 08:05:05

I've been in close contact with the servicing company.  I forwarded this info on.

Thanks a lot.

Line 6/Andrew has assured me they will take care of this and I am grateful.

I got my backup DT50 112 Thursday, so I'm back in business!



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-10 20:32:15

Good to hear you got your amp back. Hopefully i will get mine back too soon and it will really either be fixed or a new one with imrovements to get rid of the poblem.

Hopefully anyone that has had their power transformers go bad and had their amps repaired successfully will report it here as well, especially if it's beyond the warranty period. I didn't setup this discussion to slam Line 6 but rather to prove the problem existed and for DT amp owners to share their support experiences and document what the cause of the problem is.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-11 11:24:27

I didn't get my amp back. The part won't even be in until mid April.

I bought another one. LOL



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-12 13:51:50

Either you're a glutton for punishment or got too much money laying around...: )



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by mikey7 on 2013-03-18 16:03:06

This is a club I'll be glad to quit. I moved forward and made the switch. I'm no longer am a DT 50 owner. A pair of Tech 21 Power Engine 60s is on a UPS truck bound for my house, and I have to say I'm looking forward to it. I think the concept of the DT is great, but concepts and ideas without reliability aren't enough for me. Not worth the gamble any more. Whiteop's 3 time power tranny failure was just the encouragement I needed, after my own power transformer failed.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-22 03:18:23

Well the amp has been out for repair now for about 3 weeks and I haven't heard a peep. Since the cabinet was damaged by their tech I hope they just send a new amp since something keeps blowing the power transformer and they haven't been able to figure out what's causing it. I hope they don't just put in another power transformer and send it back in the same damaged cabinet because they don't seem to have very responsible techs that actually try to do a good job. I understand they're probably swamped with amps with blow transformers and think and repair in a conveyor belt type mode but I'm hoping management does the right thing and sends a new one. If I were the owner of the company that's what I would do for someone else in the same predicament. After all it's not a cheap amp at all in comparison to the market. I'm thinking I just should have bought a Fender Twin or Super Deluxe or maybe even an AC30 and just been done with it. Would have been cheaper.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by Tboneous on 2013-03-25 17:51:26

I submitted a support ticket asking about this Transformer issue.

Belowis what I wrote and below that is the responce from Line 6.

"What is the issue with the dt50 defective power transformer. There are a lot of posts from angry customers yet no response from Line6. I can not afford to have my amp suddenly stop working at a show. What has line 6 done to fix this problem?"

"Hello,

An email was sent out to registered owners of the DT50 amplifiers the fell within a certain serial number range with a potential problem.  Looking at your account, your amplifier was not affected by this so you should not worry about having a defective amplifier.  We only notified registered customers that fall within the range where they may encounter a problem.

Regards,"

I will leave out the Line 6 persons signature at this point. But if my DT50 starts down this road, I will put him/her on BLAST!

I find the use of the words "potential problem"interesting.  For those DT owners who are STILL without an amplifier and for those who are out of money as well, the problem is far from a "potential" problem! It is a real problem!

Did any of the posters in this thread receive this email?

I got my DT50 this month and will keep a close eye on it! Will keep you posted



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-26 15:23:08

You would think I would have received one of them but then again I don't have to be made aware of this problem because I've been very well aware of it ....4 times now! Hopefully they've had a word with Bogner on this issue and resolved it... But that creeping fear in the ack of mind makes me wish I'd spent the money elsewhere...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by Tboneous on 2013-03-27 14:31:14

I would be curious to know if anyone received an email stating that their DT amplifiers serial number falls into a range of potentially bad amplifiers PRIOR to their amp dying. That would show that Line 6 is a proactive company that has its customers better interests at heart.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by theoptimizers on 2013-03-27 15:18:12

I fall into this category.  I have had no problems with my DT50. As far as I know, I received my email as early as anyone. 

And, I'm very happy that they are addressing the problem proactively.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by Tboneous on 2013-03-28 22:59:28

In the interest of gathering an accurate count of folks with blown transformers I would like to open this post to those who DON'T have blown transformers as well. I think it would be unfair to the many folks who would like to make an informed decision on the DT series amps to only hear from the 7 or so owners who have posted in this thread their individual (yet no less frustrating) experiences with their amps. In other words, if there are 1000 owners of DT amps and 7 have had problems, one might move forward in their purchase of a DT amp. But if, of the 1000 DT owners, 900 have experienced problems, that's another story all together!

I hope this makes sense!

T



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-03-29 06:38:58

I'm guessing you will be back in here to post when it happens to you. This is only but one of the many places that the power transformer problem has been reported online. Do a Google search and you'll see it's not a few isolated incidents. What's more important is how Line 6 is handling this situation - they are doing the right thing and notifying people that have potentially affected amps that they can send them in for repair. They have also offered to repair many that were out of warranty because they realized that it was the right thing to do given the price of the amp. This thread was simply set up to make them and others aware of this problem as I noticed it was becoming a common occurrence. It wasn't to slam them. They have done me right and I will continue to buy their products and recommend them to others.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by Tboneous on 2013-03-29 09:00:11

Well I am hoping I can fall into the "if it happens to me" rather than the "when it happens to me" catagory. That said, if/when it happens to me, you're right, I'll be postin' my little fingers off! I guess what I am attempting to offer is this: I am sure that there are a lot of folks with bad transformers and other curious issuses. For someone researching whether or not they should purchase a DT amp however, they are trying to answer the question, "is this transformer issue indicative of all of the DT amps or is this an anomaly?" You can't know that by only hearing from those who have experienced problems. There is no post for those who don't have blown transformers. Maybe there needs to be one so we can accurately compare those with issues and those without. I am hoping that there are a great many more DT owners out there without amp issues than there are with amp issues.

It's good to hear that Line 6 is treating you right!



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by Stratman82 on 2013-04-05 22:59:21

Agreed, in scientific research terms this is called bias. When it comes to these sorts of forums it can have a big influence on prospective owners.

I've had a DT25 for over 18 months now. I changed the power tubes after 6 months but that's a valve issue and like light bulbs they all need replaced sooner or later.

No technical problems at all since switching to a couple of JJ tesla EL84s. Crackling and popping before the switch. I didn't have the amp re-biased which hasn't seemed to make a difference.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by beascott on 2013-04-06 08:41:04

Just joined the club about 11 days ago.  As my sound disappeared without any fanfare, I felt strangely accepting.  I was expecting this to happen to my DT50 212 after reading the forums here.  It is funny, I wanted to join this thread in order to suggest that I was an owner with a working power transformer.  Then, pffffffffttttt!   I had received the recall notice just a week or so before the DT50 died.  To their credit, L6 was incredibly efficient in providing a shipping label so that I could send it off for repair.  It is in Calabasas, CA as I write this.  Only time will tell if the recall produces the reliability any owner would want.  I love this amp.  I don't lile it when it is silenced.  I'll post again when the amp comes back.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-04-07 08:04:16

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Call Line 6 Support and ask to speak with Ashlie. She's aware of the problem and won't deny that it exists. I do know how you feel all too well. The good news is Line 6 is doing the right thing so far and I'm not so sure if it's just the transformer or something in the circuit causing the transformer to blow.

And I do  love the tones I get out of mine too and hope there are no more problems.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-04-07 08:11:07

The tube change does make a difference. When I received my new DT-50 (to replace the other one with4 blown power transformers and damage one by the tech to the front of the amp) recently it made all kinds of noise and was picking up strange frequencies (sure didn't want to broadcast any fire station or police calls while playing onstage). I did a Google search and sure enough several hits came up about it being the preamp tubes. Sure enough I changed them out and almost all of the noise was gone. Must be those cheap EHX 12AX7's...lol



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by beascott on 2013-04-07 08:22:23

whiteop, when did you get your new DT50?  Congratulations on dumping the lemon that you had.  I don't know how you could stand to go through that process.  It says something about your ability to persist.  Additionally, it may attest to your love of the tones you are getting.  How was the decision made to replace your original amp?



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by whiteop on 2013-04-07 11:59:37

About a week ago. I think they made the decision to replace the amp because the amp had to be serviced 3 times previously and the transformer being replaced each and every time and still blowing and the fact that their tech had obviously damaged the amp by what I think was problem the amp falling over on the edge of the workbook or onto a tool. I am an investigator by trade so I'm used to keeping meticulous records and am observant probably a little more than the average guy so I knew that there was no damage to the front face of my amp when I packed it up in the original shipping materials it came with (not that anyone else here wouldn't have noticed too) and shipped it and knew damage like that wouldn't have occurred in transit. By habit, I keep all my records organized and keep all documents just in case for later use. I basically wrote out a chronology of what had occurred and supporting evidence like technicians notes, date and times the  amp was repaired, shipped, received back fom repair, symptoms, photos, etc...basically laid everything out for them to how them I hadn't abused the amp, took good care of it, and hadn't even used it that much, didnt move it around, wasn't a gigging musician per se, etc...I also let them know I hoped they would consider replacing the amp as ll efforts thus far hadn't fixed the problem. I think the fact that their tech had damaged the mo might have factored into it too. I think they understood I was trying to be reasonable and not blow my cool either. I think a lot if people blow it on that one in these types of situations and that kills the deal for them with most business owners. I wholeheartedly appreciate what they did and I think they turned what could have been a negative thing into a positive thing. As a result, I will let others know that they stand behind their products and that they made a customer with a bad situation happy...:)



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-04-08 08:06:15

I am a huge proponent of the amp and the company.

While my unit is in the shop (going on 2 months now) I bought another.

There's no hatred here.  I am a huge fan of Line6 and what they do.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by beascott on 2013-04-08 11:46:03

Great to hear that your persistence has paid off and produced a positive outcome.  I have to agree, Ashley @ Customer Support is outstanding!



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by beascott on 2013-04-11 11:23:10

Well, UPS damaged my DT50 212 in transit to Calabasas, CA.  Fortunately, I had a local UPS Store pack the amp.  Meanwhile, Line 6 reported me that UPS had denied a claim due to insufficient packaging.  They supplied me with photos of the damage.  The cabinet was significantly cracked.  The box was clearly damageedon the exterior.  They offered to do the tech bulletin repair.  Additionally, I was told they might be able to replace the cab for a cost, of course.  However, Line 6 never filed the claim and accepted a clearly damaged package?!?!?!   This seemed to be far less than forthright.  I filed a UPS claim this morning.  The fact that thr UPS Store packaged the item is clearly to my advantage.  This has been very frustrating, to be sure.  If you have to ship an amp for Tech bulletin 59 repair, I would suggest having UPS do the packing.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by TheRealZap on 2013-04-11 12:29:23

I actually removed the tubes and amp chassis and only sent that for the fix.

(i did send the tubes, so they could be tested and used for troubleshooting any other issues)

saved a few bucks on shipping and lowered the possibility of damage.

I'd heard that others had issue with the tolex, so i didn't want to chance it anyway.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-13 16:21:50

So you had one blow up on you too Zap? Sorry to hear that, for everyone involved.

I am curious, how many folks in the club have been using attenuators?...

The question was asked above , (but not really answered to my liking) so I'll ask it again.

How many of you (when your amp blew up), were actually using attenuators?



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by TheRealZap on 2013-04-13 18:36:31

mine just went off from standby mode and wouldn't come back on... never used an attenuator.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-04-14 07:30:31

I always use an attenuator.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-14 08:56:34

Ok well thats 50/50 so far...  ; P

Im only asking because of the question posed above, as in id like to know what failed inside the amp, and if it had "anything" to do with using an attenuator ?

Im also assuming that because Line 6 has issued a recall on some of the earlier DT-50's, that it has "nothing" to do with using an attenuator.

And so if that is the case, Im also wondering why Spaceati even ask that question???

Space?



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spaceatl on 2013-04-14 13:47:42

Any attenuator on any amplifier causes the amplifier to operate closer to upper end tolerances of the design, parts, tubes...A proper transformer shoud outlast the amplifier...decades...I was only curious about the use of an attenuator because I it seems like it could reveal the defect sooner than running without one...hard to know though...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-15 06:36:41

Im afraid i cant agree about the attenuator. If the attenuator matches the impedance electrically with the wattage headroom, and matching the loads of a real cabinet ohms wise, then just how can it make the amp work closer to the end tolerances of its design?  It cant. This is the way not only guitar amps work, but all sorts of transmitters producing thousands of watts into a dummy load for testing purposes (Im also an FCC extra class ham radio operator and also hold a General Radio Telephone ticket). So I know about matching loads on various transmitters, and if its done correctly with good parts, the guitar amp head knows no difference from the cabinet.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by TheRealZap on 2013-04-15 07:08:43

i'm not any sort of electronic genius...

but i can buy the idea that runinng an amp at a higher volume would wear the internals especially the tubes faster than running it at a lower volume.

the attenuator only affects the feed to the speaker, but essentially the amp would be running hotter etc...

i think that's what space is getting at... and logically it sounds right to me...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-15 08:07:12

The amp running at higher volumes using a cabinet, or an attenuator,  would have the same results on said amp Zap. The amp would run no hotter using an attenuator (or a speaker cab) when both output impedances are matched evenly. Its an old wives tale to think otherwise. If however you do not use a good attenuator or a good speaker to match the load, then all bets are off.... but all speakers, and all attenuators are not made equal, and to lump them all together is just not logical. I know what Space was getting at Zap, and I have to disagree... ; )



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by PDKTDK on 2013-04-15 09:02:57

I keep my master anywhere from 10 to 2 o'clock.  I think it's pretty reasonable an expectation to expect consistency/performance at those levels.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-15 16:38:40

Yes PDK thats reasonable to expect the amp to act normally as long as the output impedance (load) is correct for the amp (using an attenuator or straight to a cab).

Here's 2 flat statements in order Ill stand behind, and I dislike flat statements for the most part...

1.  Once the amp is "electrically satisfied" by presenting the proper output load impedance and wattage handling for the amplifier, it will perform as its supposed to (unless there was a design problem in the amp in the first place).

2. You can acheive this output impedance match with a speaker cabinet and/or good attenuator, used correctly.

But like anything else used incorrectly, of course this would cause issues. If your afraid of an attenuator or dont want to bother hooking one up then dont buy one. But please dont tell me they cause damage when used correctly, cause in most cases it just aint so....



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spaceatl on 2013-04-16 09:09:50

I am not a Ham radio head, but I do own a unicorn ranch...

load impedance on a tube amp doesn't matter so much if it's too low...It's when it's too high (or infinite (no load)) when you have to worry about the flyback current....You posts seems to allude the behaviors of SS design...sorry, if I am misunderstanding you...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by RPascarella on 2013-04-16 09:45:10

No attenuator here.  I was jamming along at bedroom volumes when my DT50 went out suddenly and took out the room's breaker.  No stress at all on the amp.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-17 14:48:47

spaceatl wrote:

I am not a Ham radio head, but I do own a unicorn ranch...

load impedance on a tube amp doesn't matter so much if it's too low...It's when it's too high (or infinite (no load)) when you have to worry about the flyback current....You posts seems to allude the behaviors of SS design...sorry, if I am misunderstanding you...

Well I dont know what it takes to own and run a unicorn ranch, other than maybe some good peyote ; ), but to hold an FCC Extra Class Amateur Radio ticket involves passing 5 different tests, all harder as you go from novice, techician, general, advanced and then Extra Class. And When I took the test I also had to pass a 20 wpm Morse code exam as well. Not easy. The general Radio-Telephone ticket math I took and passed was about the same level as the Advance test was.... Anyway, back to the topic... What Im saying to you Space, is that you made a flat statement above that in using an attenuator, that we would all be running our amps harder (operate closer to upper end tolerances of the design, parts, tubes) than if we were to just be using a standard speaker cab. I disagreed with you because that is simply not the case. All attenuators, amps and cabinets are not made equal, and to lump them all together is just not fair or logical, or even correct. Either a tube head or solid state head (and I was mainly thinking tube above) will not run any harder, or hotter or blow up any faster if the output load impedance, and wattage requirements for the head are met using a good attenuator, and/or speaker cab (and good speaker cable). Thats the way it works. If these requirements are not met then of course it will run harder, but thats not what I think you were saying... Electrically speaking the amp wont know the difference (correct load= attenuator and/or speaker) , and no over current or mismatch will occur, and the head will work as designed being fat dumb and happy IF these requirements are met. Thats a fact. You and others may not trust in using them and I understand that, but that doesnt make them a bad product used correctly. And, I also point out that had Line 6 thought for a second that the majority of their amp problems had been caused by the users using attenuators, they would not have honored any warranties, OR would they have offered up any recalls, and rightly so..... Is that understandable? Peace Brother... ; )



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by mikeywright on 2013-04-17 23:51:38

I'm a registered Line 6 DT50 owner and did not receive an email notification. I too have experienced the infamous power transformer failure and am waiting on my amp to be repaired. Can anyone share the content of the notification and the serial number range Line 6 identified as having power transformer issues. Thanks.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by mikeywright on 2013-04-17 23:53:13

I'm a registered Line 6 DT50 owner and did not receive an email notification. I too have experienced the infamous power transformer failure and am waiting on my amp to be repaired. Can anyone share the content of the email notification and the serial number range Line 6 identified as having power transformer issues. Thanks.



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spaceatl on 2013-04-18 06:09:50

I should have clarified....The only point I was trying to make is that with or without an attenuator, the higher the master volume the more current that is passing though the amplifier. It seems likely to me that when an attenuator is used, the amplifier is likely running at a higher volume than when an attenuator is not used....When more current is passing though the circuit, this tends to reveal isssues with components that could be out of tolerance or striaight out defective...Hence, using an attenuator might reveal something like this a little sooner...Not because it is an attenuator (it's just a load), but because the power amp is likely passing more current that it would be without one...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by TheRealZap on 2013-04-18 06:21:07

that's what i always understood you to be saying and accept as a reasonable conclusion.

kind of like the light bulb that burns brighter burns quicker...

how are things at the ranch?

http://www.unicornranch.org/



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-18 17:40:56


TheRealZap wrote:

that's what i always understood you to be saying and accept as a reasonable conclusion.

kind of like the light bulb that burns brighter burns quicker...

how are things at the ranch?

http://www.unicornranch.org/

Well Zap Im kinda mad at you for not telling me you knew all this stuff to begin with ...

Space glad you clarified yourself, and I do see what you meant by it now. Too bad Zap wouldnt tell me...

You wernt talking about the impedance load differences, only the maximum current flow and heat build up through it.

And your right after the carification, in running an amp flat out with or without an attenuator will normally reduce the life of the output tubes since maximum current is flowing and maxiumum heat is being generated during this condition. I personally wouldnt have EVER run my amp flat out all the way up using an attenuator, but some idio errr... people do... ; )

Which brings me to a what if question, if you will... Had Line 6 design engineers (not knowing their design and QA testing stuff) used something like an attenuator to better load test these amplifiers in cranked up over time test, before mass producing them, would we have had the problems we are seeing here in the 1st place? And if they did, then why all the failures? Did they not go far enough, or did the parts people drop the ball? An explanation from Line 6 would be an awesome read, for those who have smoked a DT series amp....

Oh yea BTW- Zap. A light blub burns out quicker because its "designed" to do so. Had they placed in all US incandescent blubs a 130 volt filament,  they would not sell near as many blubs as the current (pun intended) sales records show.... But, you already knew that



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by TheRealZap on 2013-04-18 17:54:38

spikey wrote:

Which brings me to a hindsite what if question, if you will... Had Line 6 design engineers had used something like an attenuator to better load test these amplifiers in testing, before mass producing them, would we have had the problem in the 1st place? Hind sight is 20/20 isnt it...

not really true, because they did fix them in production... the early ones left either missing or with the wrong fuse...

I don't think the general design is at fault... as much as perhaps the implementation of that design....



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-18 18:12:20

TheRealZap wrote:

spikey wrote:

Which brings me to a hindsite what if question, if you will... Had Line 6 design engineers had used something like an attenuator to better load test these amplifiers in testing, before mass producing them, would we have had the problem in the 1st place? Hind sight is 20/20 isnt it...

not really true, because they did fix them in production... the early ones left either missing or with the wrong fuse...

I don't think the general design is at fault... as much as perhaps the implementation of that design....

Actually, "mine" is getting fixed in "post" production Zap... After the fact of paying for and receiving the amp... Lots of others were not fixed in production either, and kinda explains the reason for this thread Im thinking... Hopefully the fuse is the issue, as time will tell. And that information came to me from my service tech about the fuse being wrong.... Not from Line 6....



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by TheRealZap on 2013-04-18 19:46:13

there's a reason that bulletin 059 was only emailed to certain users... and the reason is the serial number of the users unit...

I



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spaceatl on 2013-04-19 05:36:19

My DT50 is a very very early one and I have had it since well before they were released...I have run it flat out, left it on for 72 hours at a time, run load mismatches. My personal opinion is that the design is very solid....Whatever this deal is with the power trannies is some sort of parts quality logistics issue...I don't see it as a design defect...



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-19 17:43:30

Zap, of course there was a reason some of us got the bulletin, and I do know why it was i got one. It was sent to me so that the internal fuse that was replaced (with another type fuse) would up open later than the changable fuse that we can get to on the back of the amp in an over current condition... Now, the serial numbers on the units may have flagged them as to who needed the fix, but the reason for the fix was that the fuse inside the chassis was wrong and needed the right one installed. I also know that this thread exists because of those who suffered from transformer failures. Hopefully there wont be more...

Space, yes mine is an early one as well that I just got back from the shop. I have run mine on a less than hard path volume wise and babied it. And I still took it in for the upgrade. I think that you should have the correct components installed even if you dont plan on pushing the limits. And that doesnt make it a defect, until of course your transformer blows up. I also think that the issue here for Line 6 was that it might fail without this upgrade done, and not that it was guaranteed to....But, it was a design change,  however small. That took a pair, and cost them $$.  And I am glad Line 6 owned up to fixing it for the user for free. Their stock went up a mark or two for me in doing that. Noted: Owning up and taking responsibilty for your actions and mistakes made, is a rare gift these days....



Re: Blown Power Transformer Club
by spikey on 2013-04-21 08:05:49

I dont know what the range of serial numbers are invloved, but here is the email contents...

(Another thing FWIW- I didnt get the email for my DT-25, and its the one that died... go figure.....)

..... From Line 6.....

You are receiving this email based on your DT50 serial number’s manufacture date. Line 6 has found that your amp qualifies for a hardware upgrade that will prevent the possible failure of its power supply. This upgrade will be performed free of charge under Technical Bulletin 059 and can be performed in one of two ways:

  • Contact your local Line 6 Authorized Service Center and request that Technical Bulletin 059 be performed. It may be best to contact one or more service centers ahead of time to understand when you can expect the amp to be repaired. For a listing of Authorized Service Centers in your area, please go to http://line6.com/service_centers/.
  • Contact Line 6 directly and ship the amp to us. Package the unit in a box with adequate packing material to insulate it from possible freight damage (Line 6 is not responsible for freight damage due to insufficient packaging.) We suggest you use a method of shipping that offers a tracking number. We will make the repair and ship the amp back to you, so please make sure that your Line 6 account’s shipping address is updated. The repair can be set up in one of two ways:
    • Open an RMA (Return Material Authorization) service request ticket via your Line 6 user account (this method expedites the process). To do this, log in to your Line 6 Account. Click this link: http://line6.com/support/tickets/add.html. Type “repair” in the search box, then click “Open Ticket." Select your amp and then request an RMA to have TB059 performed. You will receive an RMA number and shipping instructions via the ticket.
    • If you prefer to call us: dial 818-575-3600, press 3 for Technical Support and Customer Service, press 3 for the Service Department, then press 2 for Repairs (RMA request).

We want to make sure that your DT50 will perform well for years to come, so we feel this action is necessary. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue may cause you.

Best Regards,

Line 6 Customer Service

End




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.