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Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by VonKurz on 2013-02-15 11:06:04

Hi,

Im in love with my JTV-89 - and i bought a Fender Super Champ XD which has a "acoustic" model in its channel 2. This is the only amp i have been able to find which does both both acoustic and electric sounds very well and is even a tube amp. However it doesnt do metal very well. Why has Line 6 not made any amp with a "acoustic/full tone" model in it? I dont really get it. Or is there something im missing? Im not interested in getting to amps, having to split the signal etc.. For practice at home i want an amp that does both - from line 6. Throw this into one of the DT's and ill buy it as soon as it hits the shop! How do i get around that problem?

Cheers



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by derwalkerhaus on 2013-02-15 11:22:22

Then you might want to check out the StageSource powered loudspeakers. They will handle both the acoustic and the electrics real well, especially if you have a Pod HD.

http://line6.com/stagesource-l3t/

The">http://line6.com/stagesource-l3t/">http://line6.com/stagesource-l3t/

Thenew smaller models would work great as reference monitors.

Good luck.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by shawnmx on 2013-02-15 11:55:33

The Stagesource speakers have "Smart Speaker" modes that allow them to be optimized for whatever source is plugged in. Two of those modes are "Acoustic Guitar" and "Electric Guitar." I wonder if the Pod HD500 can change these modes via L6 Link? Like, on a patch-by-patch basis. If so, this would be a very powerful solution.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by derwalkerhaus on 2013-02-15 12:11:27

That's a good question. I don't own either of their Stagesource speakers yet, but their concept is very interesting and maybe getting one in the future. I haven't seen any information on if the Pod can do that, but I agree, it would be nice. Hopefully someone in the forums might know. Check out some of their NAMM 2013 videos, if you haven't already. The demos of the new Stagesources along with the JTV and HD 500 are awesome.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by Nipp on 2013-02-15 12:16:17

Is there something mystical about acoustic model - I think it's only full range amp really.

Regular electric guitar amps has very limited range - since pickups produce not so nice full range tone.

I saw the NAMM demo video with JTV-89F and they also switched frequently between acoustic and electric - but if that was all the way to Stagesource or the HD500 is hard to say.

I think all the Line6 amps are really full range - that is what the POD produce to sound well directly in PA. So wanting acoustic to sound nice - make a no amp patch for HD500.

Looking at the PODs 10 years ago I was recommended to get a full range amp - like Sansamp Power Engine - not a guitar amp.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by derwalkerhaus on 2013-02-15 12:26:18

I agree. I had the Power Engine, and it did a good job I think, but I missed the warmth of tubes so I changed to the Atomic Reactor, and that is what I use now. But I only run electrics through my rig, I don't really play acoustics.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by phil_m on 2013-02-15 12:45:26

In order for for an amp to sound good with an acoustic, it really needs to like a PA speaker, not a guitar amp. This mean that the speaker cabinet will have a tweeter, which is what you would find on most dedicated acoustic amps. That's really the main reason electric guitar amps suck as amp for acoustic guitars. Well, that and the fact that on top of the speaker in guitar amps are designed to even further roll off the top and bottom ends of the signal.

As far as the acoustic model on the Super Champ XD (which is a great little amp, btw - I use to own one), it's not really an acoustic amp model. That particular model on that amp is meant to make an electric guitar sound like an acoustic. It's essentially an effect similar to the Boss AC-3 Acoustic Simulator.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by shawnmx on 2013-02-15 12:48:11

The above video is one of the recent NAMM demos and in it, Sean Halley has a Pod HD500/Variax connected directly to a L2 speaker. He goes from an acoustic sound to a distorted sound by switching patches on the Pod. What's confusing about this demo is, the Pod is also connected to a DT amp. So, when he changes from the acoustic to the distortion, are we still hearing everything only thru the L2? Or is the distorted tone actually coming from the DT? Also, this thread from last October implies that you can control a Stagesource speaker using Pod, but the method for adding the Stagesource speaker mode to Pod patches is a bit odd in that, it's not assignable thru the Pod or thru Line 6 Edit. But rather, you simply select the speaker mode directly from the Stagesource speaker itself, and then save the patch. I'd like to see a demo of this in action to know for sure it can be done.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by derwalkerhaus on 2013-02-15 13:25:49

I don't think so. If you listen in the video, he states that he uses the same Stagesource speaker for the acoustic that he does the electric sounds. It just so happens that the DT is a part of his demo rig he has at the show. But I could be wrong. According to the wife, I usually am.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by mrmykl on 2013-02-15 13:31:54

I highly recommend the HD500/Variax/Stagesource L3 series combo...but, if you just want an amp that will produce excellent acoustic sound (given an acoustic with a pickup, a variax or an acoustic-modelled processed electric guitar) AND a killer electric sound...get an L3t or two.  Seems like you could just leave the speaker in full range mode and eq your electric sound (through pedal, or via direct out from your amp) to sound right in that mode.  It's so easy with the Variax...but it could be almost as easy without...



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by shawnmx on 2013-02-15 13:39:20

I thought the same thing at first. But what makes me suspicious is that Sean specifically mentions that he's using the Dream Rig. And the Dream Rig includes the DT amplifier.

This video shows someone using a Stagesource as a "guitar amp" along with a Pod. The video only demonstrates a distorted tone. But with this and the Halley demo above, we can at least tell that the Stagesource is versatile enough to amplify both the acoustic and electric tones convincingly. Of course, the question still remains: Will it easily switch between the two?



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by VonKurz on 2013-02-16 02:52:05

Well thanks all. Eventhough i think the L2t is overkill by a mile for home us, partnering it with the hd500 (and my jtv) seems to be the solution. And mrmykl, thanks for correcting me on the Super Champ model thing. Just used the model for the acoustics and it sounded decent. There are also som smaller Roland Cubes that should do the job. But i think ill go with an L2t. They have them in stock at my normal gear pusher :-).



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by karmicfreak on 2013-02-17 19:24:48

I have a Variax 600, the POD HD500, and a DT25, but when I want to play acoustic, I bring my Marshall AS50R acoustic amp.  I use an acoustic patch I donwloaded from Customtone, then set the FX loop on.  When I'm playing electric, I get the tubey goodness from the DT25, but I get the nice acoustic sound I want from the AS50R.  It's a pain to lug 2 amps, but worth it if the sound is inspiring.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by clay-man on 2013-02-18 11:40:43

The problem is that a cabinet speaker has only 1 specific sound. If you have a guitar amp specifically for guitar, then it's going to only be fit for guitar.

I'm not sure what the StageSource stuff is, but if it does cabinet simulation, then that's probably the best option.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by kenden on 2013-02-26 10:05:23

Hi

I've been looking at this as well - I can see the 'modelling into the PA' solution but I really need an amp. Has anyone had any experience of the JTV into a Fender Acoustasonic (http://http://www.fender.com/en-GB/series/acoustasonic/acoustasonic-150-combo/)">http://www.fender.com/en-GB/series/acoustasonic/acoustasonic-150-combo/">http://http://www.fender.com/en-GB/series/acoustasonic/acoustasonic-150-combo/)which apparently does both jobs?



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by derwalkerhaus on 2013-02-26 10:34:12

Do you plan on using a Pod as well to run through the amp, or just straight from the JTV?



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by geebake on 2013-02-26 11:43:17

The speakers in our amps don't have as much to do with this as you might think.

The signal chain at it's most basic in a guitar amp is guitar -> preamp -> power amp -> speaker and each of those pieces has a dramatic affect on the tone.

In an acoustic amp, the intention is not to sculpt the sound, but rather to reproduce it as faithfully as possible - with perhaps some coloration (usually in the pre amp via EQ, reverb, chorus etc) This is why you generally don't see tube acoustic amps. Though we all dearly love tubes, they definitely add color to the signal as it passes through them.

Then there are hybridish devices. The Line 6 Vetta being an excellent example. The signal chain is not different, but the tone is mostly scultped by the pre amp with some in the power amp. Generally though, the power amp in this type of amp is just designed to make the signal coming from the pre amp a lot louder - not to color it. Think of it more like the pre amp is a really heavy duty effects processor and the power amp (two in the case of the Vetta actually) as a PA to amplify the pre amp signal. Because of all these, amps like the Vetta can do a credible job of amplifying an acoustic signal - even without a specifically tuned cab or tweeters etc

It's certainly true that acoustic amps are designed to handle the frequency range of acoustic instruments and their wider frequency response will generally sound better than a guitar cab, the fundamental reason that they work better is that they're not designed to alter the sound. A guitar specific amp is fundamentally designed to alter the sound.

This is probably why your Super Champ XD acoustic setting probably works as well as it does. I suspect that at the preamp level it does nothing more than pass the signal through without processing it and the power amp is probably very much like the PAish power amp in an amp like a Vetta.

Here's some proof of what I'm saying. Many modern amps have an 'audio in' Plug your iPod or something into this and the sound it produces is generally OK, if not great. It's because it dumps that signal directly to the power amp, skipping the preamp altogether.

Just my .02,

Greg



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by geebake on 2013-02-26 11:47:04

I use a JTV 59 through a Fender Acoustasonic JR all the time. The acoustic models sound great through it. Don't expect more standard electric guitar amp sounds from these amps though. In fact, any electric guitar sound coming into one of these will sound very flat. These amps are more like PAs than guitar amps - as others have mentioned.

You could run your guitar into something like an HD processor and then into that amp though and it would sound great.

One of the few amps I've found that can do what you're trying to is the lowly Behringer GMX212. Decent electric tone - essentially based on a good copy of the Sansamp GT2 box going into a pair of power amps with a cheesy effects processor in the middle. It does however have stereo ins on the back that will allow you to dump an acoustic signal directly to the power amp. And on the used market, they're not hard to find for $100. I'm not saying it's the best amp in the world. But it ain't bad in a pinch.

Greg



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by kenden on 2013-02-27 04:47:51

For acoustic models, I think I'd go straight in from the JTV.



Re: Why no amp for both the acoustic sounds and the electric sounds?
by kenden on 2013-02-27 04:58:53

Thanks for the pointer to the Behringer - I'll check that out. As far as the Acoustasonic goes, I think the 150 is supposed to be designed to support both acoustic and electric sounds: "For acoustic players who double on electric guitar, the Voicing control also has Blackface, tweed and British amp settings, which makes a second amp just for electric guitar unnecessary." I believe it cuts the output to the tweeter in 'electric' mode? I don't think the JR model does this?




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