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Auto tune feature for JTV?
by chuskey on 2013-02-27 18:35:22

I'm wondering out loud if Line 6 can/will ever impliment an auto tune feature into the firmware the way the Antares system works.  Here's what they're doing:  http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/.

The">http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/">http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/.

Thetuning feature is really cool, but  It's no where near the "total package" that the JTV is.  But I'm thinking how cool it would be if that could be integrated into JTV firmware. 

Any thoughts Line 6???  



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by clay-man on 2013-02-27 19:54:55

Ruh roh, another Variax competitor.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by chuskey on 2013-02-28 04:17:34

At this point I really don't see it as a competitor.  They have a LONG way to go to be considered that. 

Where Line 6 went right was designing the whole package that you can plug into and not really have to think about the technology.  Roland's VG series has essentially been doing what Variax does since the 90's, but having used the VG-88 extensivley it's not nearly the same as having everything neatly tied into one package.  Even when I see the Fender/Roland VG Strat it makes me think that they just don't get it. 

The JTV 59 has been my dream guitar, I absolutely love it!  If they could add software to make it play in tune and perfectly intonated all the time like the Antares software I really would feel like I died and went to heavan



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by dmpoole on 2013-02-28 05:03:57

From the first Variax 300 I had I thought it was a bit stupid that a guitar could be tuned to anything you want but the software didn't put it in tune.

All those years ago explaining to other musicians got funny looks that you still had to tune the strings to pitch for it to work properly.

For Line 6 I don't think it is a great leap that if you put your guitar to a tuning it also puts you in tune.

Mind you, can you imagine the horror from the audience saying 'That guitarist is using autotune'



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by phil_m on 2013-02-28 06:28:49

I would be interested to hear how the Auto-Tune guitar performs in real life. Auto-Tune is a great thing, but it's not a miracle worker. If people try to depend on it too much, the artifacts become obvious pretty quickly. I think one thing about Auto-Tuning on an instrument like a guitar is that the DSP has to be able to figure out when you're going out of pitch on purpose like with a bend or using the trem and when you're simply not playing in tune. I'm sure that smart people know that, and they do something about it, but I think that's why many of these pitch correction things have problems sometimes.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by chuskey on 2013-02-28 07:00:33

From the videos I've seen it seems to work pretty well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NurkeWG-a-0

Seems">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NurkeWG-a-0">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NurkeWG-a-0

Seemsto do about as well as the JTV does with retuning for alternate tunings. 

The thing that makes me scratch my head with Antares is why put it in such a cheap ugly guitar?  Also they don't mention at all how the pickup modelling vs the magnetic pick ups works.  Coming from the JTV I understand that the auto tune engaged defeats the magnetic pick ups, but they never mention that.  I even downloaded the manual to check it out.  I was curious what they modelled for the sound.  I can only assume they modelled the magnetic pickups on the guitar....

They have a great concept but such a long way to go to make it a complete package.  All Line 6 would have to do is incorporate this feature into their firmware if there is enough DSP onboard to handle it.  It would completely knock the legs out from under the Antares project. 



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by phil_m on 2013-02-28 07:53:48

I know it's not entirely fair to judge based on a video on the internet, but I wasn't particularly impressed with any of the tones in that demo.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by chuskey on 2013-02-28 08:26:10

I agree that the tones were pretty bad.  I'm assuming that they wanted to use a clean tone to show off the accuracy of the tuning algorithms.  It's a bad way to show off the product for sure.  From what I can tell though the tuning sounded pretty accurate, which is the only part I'd be interested in.  Maybe Line 6 can throw that in with the 2.0 update



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by phil_m on 2013-02-28 08:53:46

I guess my point was is that if the pitch is accurate but the tones sound fake/bad because of it, than the feature doesn't seem too appealing to me. It seems to me for something like Auto-Tune to be of value it not only has to do the pitch correction well, it also has to leave the base tone as unchanged as possible.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by chuskey on 2013-02-28 12:13:23

I understand what you mean.  I agree if it has bad tone then it doesn't matter how good the tuning is. 

I would image the tone is a function of the modelling and shouldn't really be affected by the tuning feature.  The same way the alternate tunings don't interact with the modelled tone of the JTV. 

I really don't see how Peavey/Antares could have put together a worse way to demonstrate it as a technology.  It's an ugly guitar that doesn't sound good.  Yes, it's only $500, but still.  Line 6 learned that it was better to put out a quality instrument with the modelling built in rather than cramming it into the cheapest guitar they could find. 

However, I still maintain that this could be a game changing technology and I think within a few years will be.  I hope anyway



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by DaddyV on 2013-02-28 14:56:23

I would think that we'd be better off with robo tuners like on the new Les Pauls! Or a basic model that just keeps JTV's in standard tuning as that's all is needed really?



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by clay-man on 2013-02-28 15:05:17

I didn't think it was stupid. The pitch shifting technology simply adds and subtracts pitch from the current string, so you needed to have it in E standard.

It simply just adds and minuses semitones from what the string is tuned to.

I do think it's stupid, to have a guitar horribly out of tune and ALWAYS rely on the processor to retune it. Talk about lazy.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by clay-man on 2013-02-28 15:11:41

I think the robo tuners are nice if you want to keep in tune if it's out of tune, but for alt tuning, I'd rather stick to digital, because tuning your guitar like that so much breaks the strings more often, and not to mention string tension issues.

I think the down tuning to the Variax is pretty much spot on so I prefer that over robo alt tuning.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by TheRealZap on 2013-02-28 17:48:34

just get new tronical tuners: http://www.tronical.com/

">http://www.tronical.com/">http://www.tronical.com/



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by chuskey on 2013-03-01 06:05:05

That system looks pretty cool.  The difference is though, at least at first glance, is those tuners "get" your guitar in tune.  The antares system "keeps" your guitar in tune as well as perfectly intonated up the neck.  The intonation part is another HUGE feature.  Having the motorized tuners doesn't really solve any problems other turning the tuning pegs for you.  They're cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's the same advantages. 

For a mechanical solution there's this:  http://www.evertune.com/.">http://www.evertune.com/">http://www.evertune.com/. This bridge is awesome!  With the JTV digitially doing the alternate tunings you wouldn't have to worry about giving that up with this bridge.  However it won't work with JTV because they don't do piezo saddles, not to mention routing issues you may run into. 

So come on Line 6, hook us up!!! 



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-01 06:44:29

I think the tronical deal is the same as gibson uses for their robots... both solutions are kind of ugly though... a built in variax solution would be nice... not likely but nice!



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by geebake on 2013-03-01 07:34:29

Anyone else a little miffed that they want you to buy 'Packs' of models and tunings? I suppose this isn't that unusual anymore, Hell I bought all the model packs for Pod Farm way back when. I guess I could live with paying for extra models, bit not tunings. I can't really see the value of a guitar that allows alt tunings that doesn't allow me to do custom tunings. This is the biggest problem I've had with the Roland VGs. Such a cool feature - locked up and kept out of my hands,

Greg



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-01 07:51:09

do you mean Roland? line6 doesn't have packs either models or tunings for the variax line... all freely available.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by geebake on 2013-03-01 10:33:00

No, I was reffering to the Autotune thing. If you look under the 'Producat' menu there you'll see 'Software Feature Packs" - each one offering different models and tunings. It seems that the product line is still in development to some degree, but I'm guessing that this won't change. When you buy the basic system, you only get the autotuny thing, a few alt tuning presets and some other features. If you want modelling or more tunings, you have to upgrade to differet packs and they're not particularly cheap.

In the case of the Roland VG guitars you're just stuck with what it comes with to my knowledge. No way to do any other tunings than those that come built in.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by YirWaffy on 2013-03-01 13:31:52

In the case of the Roland VG guitars you're just stuck with what it comes with to my knowledge. No way to do any other tunings than those that come built in.

My ancient VG-8EX has custom tunings. +/- 12 semitones on each string, IIRC. I think they took this feature out of the latest VG models.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by clay-man on 2013-03-03 03:53:14

I can't really see any decent competition. It seems like Line 6 is the only one that knows what they're doing with guitar modeling.

A lot of other modeling guitars seem to be using mag pickups. One of the reasons I think Line 6 uses piezos is because of the frequency response. I saw some video a long time ago with a good explaination about piezo pickups:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKFooUjcWGM

You">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKFooUjcWGM">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKFooUjcWGM

Youcan make a piezo sound like pretty much anything because of the frequency range, but a mag cuts off a bunch of frequencies, so it's impossible to get let's say a humbucker to sound like a telecaster and vice versa, at least not decently.

The alternate tuning stuff I'm seeing on this topic is pretty embarassing too. I don't get why you'd have to pay for alternative tunings. That's like having to put quarters into your guitar just to retune your guitar.

The VG stuff is probably the best competition that the Variax has, but it's still not really worth it. Limiting the alternate tunings was a really bad idea. He could be talking about the Fender VG though.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by player99 on 2013-03-04 16:05:30

The Roland VG 55 has about 18-24 models and a much bigger range of + and minus frets (24 up. 24 down.) It will also allow strings to be muted. As well as the guitar models, it also gives access to 2 full independant Roland synths with 900 sounds each, and a full complement of roland effects. So added up, the GR55 gives you 4 independent voices at once plus effects: The 2 synths, the Variax style and the magnetic pickups.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-05 05:23:41

wow... these things go for 500$ new...

some guy at a local craigslist thinks he's going to trade his for an american fender! hahaha

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/msg/3653588745.html

delusional.

">http://charlotte.craigslist.org/msg/3653588745.html">http://charlotte.craigslist.org/msg/3653588745.html

delusional.



Re: Auto tune feature for JTV?
by clay-man on 2013-03-05 13:40:10

I was impressed by the price, but then I realized why the price was so low when you had to buy every single feature for the guitar.

They want you to start from the bottom and buy everything which will eventually cost loads of cash.




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