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Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by familyguy on 2013-02-28 17:45:12

What's the secret to getting a good jazz tone?    I'm a new user with only two days experience using the Pod HD bean into a PC and headphones.   .    

I found something using the flip-top amp model after a few hours but it's not quite right.   I searched the forum and customtone for jazz tones but they seem to be incompatible files so I'm looking for options.   Any suggestions appreciated. 

Thanks.



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by Akeron on 2013-02-28 19:18:54

http://www.jimsoloway.com/PodHdPatches.html

">http://www.jimsoloway.com/PodHdPatches.html">http://www.jimsoloway.com/PodHdPatches.html



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by familyguy on 2013-02-28 19:59:07

Thanks, I am familiar with his patches, unfortunately they're not the sound I'm after.   My reference std is an Acoustic Image head with a Raezers Edge cabinet and I was hoping for something close to that.   I just spent a lot of time a/b'ing dry tones with the live rig against the pod and I can't find anything yet in the pod that's as smooth.   What my ears hear in the Pod is a different eq that doesn't round out the highs and clarify the lows - it's a harsher tone and I hear in in Jim's patches too.   Metheny would be a closer reference point to what I'm looking for.



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by bjnette on 2013-02-28 22:48:15

I know what you mean, I have been stuggling with good jazz tones too.

A few nights ago I played with the Fender Bassman standard and that bottom end  was getting too much.

The mic choice helps on the cabinet and a couple of EQ instances to balance the tone you want, befor and after the Amp block.

You might just try looping a few chords and fills with the looper in the pre mode  and then tweak the Amp pages especially mic choice and resonnace. Also a 60-90ms delay inserted in the block can be used to get that roomy tone.

My advice is to take a few breaks saving  what you got before you break and then come back and continue saving to a new tone. This way tyou can then audition your patches once your ears are fresh.

when you get something you like, save it as a patch and move on. 

It is a good idea to go for tone matching as you are doing and as you are only on the HD two days it takes a little to come to grips with it.

Really go for your Amp tone first and then a couple of EQs to smooth your response.

I like the 63 Spring Reverb but the ducking one might be the ticket.

Good luck with your jazz tones, not that mine a that good but I am getting some half decent funk tones.



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by hurghanico on 2013-03-01 03:45:06

some months ago I recorded a little jazz tone demo and I posted it over here:

http://line6.com/support/message/402587#402587

itdoesn't seem too bad to me



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by familyguy on 2013-03-01 06:25:12

Cool sounds and nice bluesy playing!   It's not what I'm targeting but it is a good sound, very acoustic to my ears.   I'll try this later today.   Thanks!



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by familyguy on 2013-03-01 06:32:55

Good idea to use the looper function - I haven't used it yet but that's an incentive to figure it out

I have been working strictly with amps, nothing else, but that wasn't working out.   Last night I had the idea (as yet untried) of using no amps, but eq's with both low and high pass cutoffs and a flat mid response which I'm told is what my reference rig (acoustic image head and raezers edge cab) do.   Apparently nothing beyond 5Khz gets through which may seem like a dull tone, but it's a surprisingly lively rig for jazz.  


I'll also try hurghanico's setup - cool acoustic sound which is what archtops should project.  

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. 



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by hurghanico on 2013-03-01 12:41:56

the solution without amp model is good for a 100% clean jazz sound, but if you want just a hair of gritty sound (which personally I like) that comes out during the loudest passages, an amp model becomes necessary ..

in case you decide to use an amp model, a very interesting way to find several timbres it's experimenting thoroughly with the available mic models ..

as an example, one of them gives a very warm and full-bodied tone to many cabs to which it is applied, in my opinion is very good for many genres of music, from jazz to hard rock ..

I'm talking about the Royer 121 Ribbon (121 Rbn) .. but to give the best of itself requires an extremely open amp eq (mid, treble, presence), otherwise it is dull ..



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by bjnette on 2013-03-01 15:41:04

Focus EQ has hi lo shelving and might be one your already using.

The guitar you use is the key factor in your tone and perhaps why my jazz tone attempts

haven't quite nailed it yet.

I'll give the no amp in the block a try.



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by bjnette on 2013-03-01 15:47:15

I do like the royer too,

By turning down the gain on the cleaner Amps with volume full, they can be very clean especially with Bias, Excursion, resonance and thump  and decay lowered in their pages and tweaked to get an amp response that suits.



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by familyguy on 2013-03-01 18:43:17

I tried your (hurghanico's) setup  (ac-30, settings, etc.) and came close to your sound.    A big driver in that sound is the use of the thumb.   It's not "the" sound for me but it's one of the better jazz tones so far.  

Tthe tone that's worked the best so far is a no-amp, plate reverb.  It was clean, had acceptable clarity throughout the tonal register, and didn't have the brittle highs that so many models have.  The plate reverb actually served two purposes: reverb and a desirable eq. -without it the sound wasn't as good.   That said it's still a poor second to my real rig which sounds good even without effects or reverb.

I used to play a Fender Vibrolux and it was great for solid or semi-solid jazz (archtops tended to feedback early with it).   The models don't approach that real fender sound, at least my fledging attempts aren't successful.   So the question I'm asking myself is "what value does an amp modeler give me?".

@bjnette: In my hd edit, I haven't seen a Focus EQ which sounds useful.   I haven't yet tried the looper stratagem yet but will do so tomorrow.   My ears are dead - I need a break from this now.

Thanks to all for your help. 



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by hurghanico on 2013-03-02 04:34:34

familyguy ha scritto:

...the brittle highs that so many models have..

......The models don't approach that real fender sound, at least my fledging attempts aren't successful...

maybe you missed one of my previous answers, but again I strongly suggest to try different mic models (or cabs) for every amp model as they influence really a lot the resulting timbre..

as I said before just as an example the 121 Rib is a very warm sounding mic which cuts off a lot of the harsh part of the the sound you may hear with some of the other mics..

anyway if the no-amp will be your definitive solution you may also consider to use the Requisite Y7 vintage Tube Mic Preamp model (Vintage Pre) to provide some nice tube warmth, it has the following controls: Gain, Output, Phase, Hi Pass Filter, Lo Pass Filter..

(and also having this Preamp Model within the FX Blocks rather than in the Amp Blocks allows you the flexibility of positioning it anywhere in the signal chain)..

you can find it under the Preamp+EQ Models section..



Re: Who's used the Pod HD for jazz tones?
by familyguy on 2013-03-02 05:54:18

Good input. 

I'll try two separate paths: 1. experiment with the tube input and 2. revisit some of the amp models and try different mics - that'll be the time to use the looper idea bjnette suggested.




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