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My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by radatats on 2013-03-04 08:17:29

Ok, maybe it is me, it probably is.  However, I can't use my amp if the Master is turned above 2, 3 MAX!  I am talking ear crushing loud.  I must have something set wrong because surely it isn't supposed to be that loud.  Hell, I can't go over 6-7 in LVM!  I have a Flextone II that isn't as friggin loud!

Here is my rig:

Guitar > HD500 > DT25HD > 2X12 cab.  I am using the L6 link with global input settings > Guitar, same, 1M.  Cab has 2 Vintage Celestion Green 8ohm speakers indepentently wired with individual input jacks.  Each speaker is connected to one of the 4ohm jacks (8ohm pair, 4 ohm single).

I created a set list with just preamps, no FX or cabs, average channel volume at 40, and still, can't push Master above 3 without ear damage!  And it sounds a little harsh too.  Very hard to get that warm syrupy tone.

I downloaded a ton of presets from Customn Tone too and it is the same thing or worse.

I did the full flash routine and reset the global and did the pedal calibration too.  Pedal will not calibrate to 0-255, only goes 17,18-255.  Is that an issue too?  Other symptoms, I can't get the toe switch to activate either.  So Wah is unusable...

When I play through the HD500 to headphones it is no problem.  The signal levels are reasonable and don't blow my ears out.

So, I am sure I have something set wrong.  I appreciate anyone's help here and will try anything and everything.  I have read plenty of posts where guys are complaining the DT25 isn't loud enough so something is wrong here...

HELP!



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-04 08:40:00

they are usually pretty loud... but just for the sake of eliminating possibilities, have you updated everything?



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by radatats on 2013-03-04 08:53:35

yep, everything updated...  I got this to be able to have the tube driven power section goodness but I don't know if I have something setup wrong or if the preamp signal is so hot, the master can't be used.  I wouldn't think I need to have the channel volume set to 10-20 just to have some master control. 

Where do you guys have your master set?  channel vol?



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-04 09:19:06

the settings vary greatly by what amp model i'm using...

but let me ask you this, are you using the pre models in the HD500?



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by geppert on 2013-03-04 09:19:38

Couple questions ....

1) Do you have the loudness problem just using the amp alone (no POD)?

2) What NFL are you generally using? The NFL IV is loud for sure.

I have a HD500 + DT25 Head/Cab (using L6 Link) but not the problems you describe.

There are many good and knowlegable people on here so maybe we can help you out.



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by innovine on 2013-03-05 00:17:29

Maybe it's just loud? Have you ever played alongside a drummer in a small room?!

On the higher gain topologies with the channel volume turned up a good way, I can barely bring the Master up at all before it's too loud for my apartment.



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by tormod1 on 2013-03-05 05:28:33

I have the same "problem", but I reckon that the amp just is THAT loud..?



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by spaceatl on 2013-03-05 06:44:00

You could have a couple of things in play here...I am assuming you have the newer Greenbacks...those are fairly efficient speakers (SPL=98db). At 1 watt at 1 meter you speakers will hit 98db of sound pressure...You are also running at 4 ohms. More power to the cones vs. two 16 ohm speakers using the 8 ohm taps...When I run my DT25 head with the band, I find the head to have just enough power running the way you are (4 ohm load into 212 cab...My speakers are rated at 100 db SPL)...When I am at home I use the DT25 cab loaded with a single 16 ohm speaker. That attenuates the output down a bit. You might be a bit happier with 16 ohm speakers in your cab...That approach loosens the master a little...If you go for lower SPL speakers, that will loosen it even more...Every -3db you go down in SPL is like cutting the power in half...works the other way too....every +3db is like doubling the power...It's the efficiency rating and it's pretty important when finding the speaker that will suit the amp to you...



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by radatats on 2013-03-05 16:58:30

I did a complete reflash of the head and the HD500 last night and it is a little better so it may also be that I screwed around with the settings using the DTEdit software.  Not sure.  Anyways, I understand what you are saying about the speakers and the load.  I am going to rewire my cab this weekend to make the 2 8ohm speakers in series giving me a 16ohm load and just run from the C jack and see if that makes any difference.  The speakers are at least 7 yrs old and not run hard either.  I have a second matching cab that has Patriot Guvners as well.  I am going to do an A/B this weekend with that one too.  If the rewiring works wellI will do both cabs and then I can always stack them for a 4X12 if needed run from the B jacks.

Except for the speakers both cabs are sealed and identical in specs but the Patriot cab is also front ported.  I am also thinking about making a spare set of backs for one cab to turn it into an open back cab and see how that sounds compared to the sealed box.  Like you said, its all about how it sounds to me.  Not too thrilled with the idea of forking out for another set of speakers at this time so I will have to play with what I have for now.

The one thing I want to be sure I am doing is allowing the power section to breathe.  In other words, I don't want to be sending such a hot signal out of the digital preamp that the analog section is barely able to turn on before it gets too loud for me to enjoy.  I am going to have to do a lot of playing around with the HDEdit to see what I can come up with.

I appreciate all the inputs here.  Unfortunately I am not gigging with anyone now so I haven't had the chance to run with other live players.  From what I have seen/heard so far it doesn't seem like I would have any problems going live as far as tone or volume goes...



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by Stueyd on 2013-03-06 03:00:55

My experience is that these are LOUD amps, but it does depend what topology you're using, ie: a topology 1 Fender is a lot quieter than a topology 3 AC30 with the gain cranked up.

Also i've found the speaker very directional, so if you're stood directly in front of it, it seems a LOT louder than a couple of feet either side.

What i've done to get around this is to fit a Dr Z Airbrake Lite Attenuator so I can drop the volume and fit a "beam blocker" in front of the speaker to disperse the sound.

It's really worked for me!

See this thread http://uk.line6.com/support/thread/90632



Re: My Rig is Too Damn Loud
by radatats on 2013-03-09 09:07:45

OK so after much experimentation and reading tons of posts, youtubes, the manuals etc...  I finally solved the problem.  I think my analysis was right because in the end what I did was just set the Guitar Input switch on top of the HD500 to PAD and set the global Guitar 2 input to Variax.  That  lowered the signal going to the DT to a manageable level and now I can use the Master to control volume on the DT25.

Before doing this, the signal was so hot that the Master could not be set higher than maybe 2 or 3 (8 or 9 oclock).  As soon as the Master engaged, the volume was already near stage level.  It was almost unusable for home play.  Now I can listen COMFORTABLY with the Master at 2-3 and still have stage level with the Master turned up.  It is a world of difference.  Many of the patches I have made and downloaded sound better now because they are not overpowering the amp.  It sounds amazing at 12 oclock... (with ear plugs!)

The one thing I am still working on is the first FX block in the chain.  According to all my research, with my inputs set this way my guitar signal is only coming in on the A path so I have to use a mono block first to send the signal to both paths if I want to use any stereo blocks or dual amps later in the chain.  However, by doing it this way I get a 6db reduction in signal strength at the first block when it sums the two inputs.  Combined with the 10db(?) reduction by using the PAD setting, my signal is now low enough to pass to the DT without overpowering it.

For now, I am placing a noise gate set at 50/50 as the first FX.  A lot of the patches I downloaded already have it set that way and it works good.  Other than making sure your signal is routed correctly from the first FX block, you don't need to change anything else on any of your patches.

Other changes made, added my own "beam blockers" to both speakers (2x12), and rewired cab to 16 ohms.  Rewiring had NO effect.  Beam blockers do seem to have reduced the harsh ice pick effect but I don't see any other big change in tone or volume.

Bottom line, if you are feeding a DT25/50 with a POD HD500, set the Guitar input switch to PAD, Guitar 1 input to guitar and Guitar 2 input to Variax (Global).

I guarantee you will like the difference.  If you need more volume on stage at any time, turn the Master down first and set the Guitar input switch back to Normal.




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