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Main :: DT50/DT25



DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by the_stonesteels on 2013-03-04 10:04:24

I’ve already gone several pages in this forum and I haven’t been on here not til I got my dt50 last week. Ive always hung out at the pod hd forum. Also, it’s already 2013 so I think it’s ok to post a new thread about this since I haven’t found answers for the 2.0 update.

I recently updated to 2.0 for my DT-50. Took a few tries before it worked but it’s updated now. Here are a few questions and I think it’d be a lot easier by enumerating them rather than including them in paragraph form.

  1. Why does this release announcement sound as if you couldn’t pair any of the 30 preamps with the 4 voicings before 2.0???

  Free v2.0 Firmware Update  

Available as a free download, v2.0 firmware takes your DT amp from four voicings to total flexibility. Create never-before-heard amp tones by pairing any of 30 HD preamps with any combination of dynamic topologies within Reinhold Bogner’s reconfigurable tube power amp.

The dynamic topologies include four negative feedback loop options (tight, loose, zero and resonant), operating class (A/AB), power tube configuration (pentode/triode), 12AX7* (normal/boost), B+ voltage* (phase inverter high/low) and feedback capacitor* (cap X/Y).

What are the changes/improvements if you were to compare 1.2 to 2.0? I’ve already seen the L6 Topology chart so I know there’s only a few that were updated (ie. Treadplate updated to IV instead of III).  Reason I ask is because I’m confused with the official Line 6 release (shown below) saying you can “now” have total flexibility as compared to before which you could only utilize four voicings. Well, in 1.2 the topology changed already, including the A/B, pentode,triode etc.

  1. Even with 2.0, Pre-models are still recommended rather than full? Definitely sounds stupid but I’m asking because there’s about 6-8 tones (that I love to death) that I’ve downloaded from custom tone which are full models. It’s my first time owning a real tube amp so my point of reference and tweaking (though subjective) as to what sounds good is still questionable IMO.

  1. The dynamic topologies include four negative feedback loop options (tight, loose, zero and resonant) à Am I understanding this correctly? TIGHT is the Blackface, LOOSE is the Plexi, Zero is the AC30 chime and RESONANT is the high gain? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I’ve purchased the dt-50 for the same reason why I started with an xt live from years back, to learn how to dial in sounds with a real tube amp. Since the XT live, I’ve gone through the X3 and currently the HD500 (3 or so something years). I hope Rowbi, Realzap or any of the forum residents can help me on this. I’ve tried reading most of Nick’s helpful posts but I just wanna make sure I’m up to date as what the best options are specially since 2.0 came out.



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-04 10:12:25

In answer to question one:

The POD HD's offered these pre-amp models already.

Now, with the 2.0 firmware and a midi editor you can edit the DT50 amp alone (without the pod) to get the same flexibility versus the 4 models built into the pre-2.0 firmware of the DT50.  You can assign different amp models to the four voicings.

As a POD owner with a DT50, the only benefit of the 2.0 firmware is multiple bug-fixes.

As a POD owner who has just acquired a DT50... You are in for a treat.



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by the_stonesteels on 2013-03-04 12:31:38

I'm definitely havin a blast with it PDKTDK.

Just to clarify though. All 30 preamp models are still modeled after those 4 main voicings yeah? Not unlike those main 4 voiciings



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-04 12:42:09

Not to my understanding.  The tubes are power amp only which leads me to believe the pre's are pure software and unique unto themselves.

That being true: All of those pre-amp voices are unique.  They are software based.  When you run your hd500 it assumes the preamp and alters the power amp tube config accordingly. Basically, the amp is providing the power amp portion only when you use the hd500 with it,

In the past you had the hd500 emulate the pre and power amp portion (before you got the dt50).  Now you have a real tube alternative handling the power amp portion.  So, predominantly you want to use pre amp models when L6 lined into the DT50.  Of course, let your ears be the ultimate factor.  That is the point though and the way it was designed/intended.

Now all of those soft preamp models are in the DT50 courtesy of 2.0 firmware.  So via midi software you can assign any of those software preamps to one of the four voicings.



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by the_stonesteels on 2013-03-05 11:16:36

To be transparently honest, the hardest part (for ME at least) is discerning what a REAL S6616 should sound like etc. but your post makes absolute sense. Question though...

Would these 4 voicings (blackface, park (plexi sound), vox chime and high gain still be a lot more accurate tube wise (given they were the 4 main voicings)

OR

Would the 30 preamp models BE. JUST. AS. GOOD?

I love my DT50 and i think I made the best decision rather than buying different amps. Like I said, I'm still in a stage where I'm still trying to figure out my identity am as a player. I was too spoiled, having the luxury of downloading great patches off of custom tone that I hardly pushed myself to learning. But all that should change now, given that I have a real tube amp in my hands now. I've got a bunch of friends who own Victorias, Carrs, badgers and all those boutiquey stuff and theyve got nothing but praises for the DT. Hopefully, the power transformer doesn't give me problems in the near future.

I'd love to hear answers regarding that question I had with the 4 voicings VS 30 preamp quality of sound.



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-05 11:57:07

They should be just as good/identical.  Remember the tubes only effect the power amp portion of the modeling.

The software/pre amp portion in the amp or in the hd via l6 link should be identical.

The 2.0 firmware update beasically added all the preamp models to the DT options list for those who uses the DT standalone.

Make sense?



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by the_stonesteels on 2013-03-06 12:00:06

Yes it does sir! Thanks again



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-06 12:22:02

Also keep in mind:

Letting the amp handle the power amp portion frees up DSP in the HD which should allow you to utilize more effects and options in your presets/patches.

Cheers!



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by the_stonesteels on 2013-03-06 12:28:38

WOW. I honestly never thought of something so simple like that. Thanks!!!



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by the_stonesteels on 2013-03-06 12:31:45

If I didnt have any amp selected, and saved it as a patch, would it still recall the amp settings or just the topology, class and pent/triode?

I'm guessing it wont? That it will be based on whatever settings I currently have?



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by theoptimizers on 2013-03-06 12:36:27

PDKTDK wrote:

Also keep in mind:

Letting the amp handle the power amp portion frees up DSP in the HD which should allow you to utilize more effects and options in your presets/patches.

Cheers!

Could you explain in a little more detail what you mean by letting the amp handle the power amp portion?  Thanks.



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-06 13:43:42

using the preamp models instead of the full amps.. saves DSP



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-06 13:45:02

you wouldn't want to do that, because you'd lose all of your "post fx" because the audio won't return back to the HD for further processing.

i believe that he means select the preamp rather than the full model.



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by theoptimizers on 2013-03-06 13:53:19

I do apologize for asking these questions, because I'm sure it's been discussed here somewhere before. But,...

- What settings are not modeled by the POD in the preamp models?

- Are these operating class, topology, tube congiguration, etc.?

- Does this mean that these items configurable with the 2.0 firmware DO impact the sound, even when the POD HD is in control?



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-06 14:01:24

no, the poweramp will be set as a model default for the pre-amp selected... you would of course lose all of the "DEP/deep edit paramters" when selecting the pre-amp version.



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by PDKTDK on 2013-03-06 14:06:43

When L6 link is engaged, the DT amp selection controls in channel A are disabled. Meaning master amp selection is contained in the HD.  Changing topology and class via amp control or hd effect the model selected in the HD. Meaning:  If you have no amp/pre-amp selected you are going to get a very clean and un-amp (model) colored tone. 

So,   When you engage a patch it changes the amp.  If there is no amp in the patch creating it should give you a very crappy (almost direct) sound. It will not revert or remain at whatever DT config you lasdt used.

That's how I recall it, anyway.  Let me know your findings. 



Re: DT50 1.2 VS 2.0 Firmware
by theoptimizers on 2013-03-06 14:10:40

TheRealZap wrote:

no, the poweramp will be set as a model default for the pre-amp selected... you would of course lose all of the "DEP/deep edit paramters" when selecting the pre-amp version.

Thanks.

So, the preamp patches load their own power amp settings into the amp, and let the amp do the work for those aspects of the modeling?

That's really cool.  I think it would be cooler if there was more transparency regarding the poweramp items that are set to "default for the pre-amp", just to be better informed regarding how the final sound is produced.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.