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Agree Peter. But my point was that two more blocks, to match a single Helix path, wouldn't make HX Stomp that much more complicated, but would add a lot of flexibility: I could fit in that one extra front of the amp effect, and separate the amp and cab model for example. Big change in tone possibilities without hardly any additional complexity.

It's all been said before! OP's thread from 2016: Where are the amps?!? - aka, beating a dead horse And the horse is still dead. Doubling down on my first post in this thread. I'm outta here! Sincerely, Proud childish, fascist Fanboy

Embedded programmer and software test engineer here. Since you seem to prefer voicing your opinion in a very direct way, I'll do so too: This crap is becoming tiring. You seem to have zero insight into software development, yet you come here and know exactly what the developers at Line 6 are doing wrong because... Yes, why actually? As an attempt of explanation: Resources are limited. The main resource in this case is the time a team of developers has in total. This time can be spent on concepts, architecture design, implementation design, implementation itself, testing, debugging, maintaining and many other tasks. Developing for a real time embedded system like the Helix isn't like clicking on a few icons in an Android App Maker to build the 16931st whoopee cushion soundboard for the Play Store. These projects eat a ton of time in every stage from concept over implementation to maintenance. Almost everything has to be optimized because any code that is inefficient would result in an audible delay, every bit of wrong code would distort the sound in various ways. This is one aspect. The other is what amsdenj mentioned: Technical debt. It's a term for tasks and unsolved problems that have accumulated over the development of a component or a product, basically a To-Do-List. This list has to be tackled someday if you want to keep your product in the market. If you look at the changelog for the 2.7 update, it's a lot of those minor annoyances that may be major ones in the wrong setting, like polarity/phase issues and amps that become quiet. The third aspect is that we are not talking about a single device here. Helix is a platform with by now a whole set of different hardware devices and a software plug-in. "Platform" doesn't equal "I write a line of code and it works everywhere". It once again may have to be optimized and it has to be tested. And no, testing isn't plugging in a guitar, checking if there's sound and if so, ship it. If that was the case, we wouldn't have to fix bugs at all. Look around in the forum. For over one year there have been complaints about the tuner, including lengthy posts, heated discussions, YouTube side-by-side comparisons with other tuners, people testing it with different instruments and what not. I play bass and have had very few issues with the tuner, but it seems to be a problem for many users. What did Line 6 do here? They addressed a complaint. Isn't that what you wanted? No, you're one of those people that not only buy a product and then somehow feel entitled to get something they want, you also have the impudence of putting yourself above a department full of most likely very experienced software engineers, programmers and projects leads saying "They're all idiots because they can't do more.". I recommend you get yourself a SHARC evaluation board, a matching C++ IDE and start writing your own DSP accelerated real time sound processing pipeline. Then you can use all your insight to add amp models, fix bugs, walk and chew bubble gum every day.

I understand the design motivation for limiting HX Stomp to 6 blocks: Keeping the UI elegant, simple and easy to use Focus on adding a stomp box in an existing pedalboard to compliment an existing setup with HX capabilities Consistency between the number of blocks and DSP capacity Anticipating future blocks that may utilize significantly more DSP resources Limited number of foot switches to control blocks Essentially this means HX Stomp is intended to provide Helix capabilities, with minimum footprint, to existing pedalboard and amp setups, not to be all things Helix in a tiny box. I get that, and these are all good design decisions, although these design decisions also sound appropriate for HX Effects. But let's look at how HX Stomp might be used in a gigging situation by itself to see if 6 blocks is enough. This might be for rehearsal, as a backup to Helix, as a convenient fly rig, or just because something so small is so useful. Consider a typical guitar signal chain that uses front and back of the amp effects (| means or): Input > Wah > Compressor > Drive > Overdrive > UniVibe | Phasor | Flanger | etc. > Amp > Cab | IR > Chorus > Delay > Reverb > Output This it my typical gigging Helix patch. I use 10 Stomp mode and pretty much stick with the same patch all night, using snapshots for open tunings, acoustic, and Leslie. This is 10 blocks, and clearly requires more foot switches than HX Stomp can provide. If you need patches like this or more complicated, you need Helix or Helix LT. Trimming this down to 8 blocks, we get something like: Input > Wah > Compressor > Overdrive > UniVibe | Phasor | Flanger | etc. > Amp+Cab > Chorus > Delay > Reverb > Output If you leave the Drive, Amp+Cab, Delay and Reverb on all the time, and you have a Line6 Mission pedal (if you don't, get one, it makes HX Stomp is a lot more useful), then you need foot switches to control Wah, Overdrive, UniVib, and Chorus. If you configure FS3 in global settings for Stomp, then you have the four foot switches you need. This seems like an ideal setup for HX Stomp by itself and is something I would be happy to gig with. To trim this down to 6 blocks, we get something like: Input > Wah > Drive > Amp+Cab > Chorus > Delay > Reverb > Output This is still pretty good, but looses the front of the amp modulation effect, something I use quite a bit. The work around is to create a patch template that covers the common blocks, then create a different preset for each front of the amp effect you need. That can work since you generally only need one of these at a time. But it means creating and maintaining a lot of patches that differ in only one block, and the potential need to change presets in the middle of a song to get different front of the amp effects. This is probably not practical. So I vote for 8 blocks, full Helix Path 1 capability, and let us users deal with balancing blocks and DSP capacity, just like we do with Helix. Two more blocks is actually a lot of additional flexibility without much additional complexity. This said, I'm pretty happy with HX Stomp just as it is and would highly recommend one as an entry point into the Helix ecosystem, as a Helix backup, or as a stomp box to add Helix blocks to an existing rig.

For anyone that has a Helix, I put this up on Ideascale to be voted on. https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Variax-Names-in-HX-Edit-the-same-as-in-Workbench-HD/940274-23508#idea-tab-comments Here's what it says. I want the names of the models in the JTV Variax as they appear in HX Edit to reflect what they are named in Workbench HD. It seems a shame that I can rename the models in Workbench HD but the names I save them as in Workbench HD, do not appear in HX Edit. I hate having to carry around a piece of paper that shows me what I renamed the models in my JTV Variax and where they are. Is it that hard to do or is it illegal for some reason? I guess they do show up in the Helix screen that way (I haven't checked this out myself) so how hard could it be to implement into HX Edit?

I disagree with Silverhead's suggestion that everybody just STFU. BUT I'm trying to make peace with OP. How about we all just exit attack mode and Give Peace a Chance?

I guess on the upside, the OP managed to up his post count by a full third within this thread. Is there a "I don't agree with a thing or two, but like the sound of my own voice"" rank? Should I Ideascale that rank?

Convolution is linear, so it should have the same effect on overall tone anywhere in a series signal chain, as long as there's no distortion in the chain. For example, an exciter would behave differently before or after an IR since it's actually generating frequencies. So mono effects before or after the IR block shouldn't matter that much. And therefore putting stereo blocks after the IR shouldn't effect their contribution that much. You want to be sure any blocks after the amp have sufficient headroom that they don't cause additional unwanted distortion. The Leslie and delay blocks that have a headroom parameter are designed for front of the amp use. If you use them after the amp, consider setting the amp channel volume for unity gain and/or increase the headroom on these blocks to ensure they aren't adding unwanted distortion. Hummm, now that I think about it, maybe an exciter block in Helix would be, well, exciting...

We don't actually delete threads. But threads can be locked or hidden, meaning no one is able to add any new posts. We still consider that to be a rather drastic measure and rarely do it. However this thread comes close to qualifying. I suggest we all just behave as if this thread is now locked and simply stop posting here. Please - no 'final thoughts' or 'last words'. Let's say we're all done here.

Guys, There is a concept called "agreeing to disagree". It means that it's ok for someone else to have a different opinion. It has to be. I came out strongly in my criticism of the update. It was directed at Line 6, yet some of you have taken it to be a personal affront, which was not my intent. I know that Line 6 does not "owe" me anything, save for a working product. But that doesn't mean I can't have my own wish list. We all have our own “wants” for what we’d like to see in an update. Some of you wanted a new tuner, and some wanted new features and certain bugs fixed. That’s absolutely valid. I don’t call you “selfish” or “entitled” for that. Those wishes are valid, as is the wish for more effects, etc. So I'm just going to say that if you were offended by what I said, just know that it wasn't pointed at you personally. Yes, I have concerns about some things Line 6 is doing, and I could have started this thing with a different tone. For that, I apologize.

Yup, you're right. I was defending myself and I shouldn't have said that. I take it back.

Yet here you are clearly provoked to argue your position, negate others opinions, make blanket accusations, and ramp up to fascism. If you think this is fascism, a certain Mr. Somebody could use a history lesson. You're trolling, dude. Keep on going and and either be ignored or get replies you're compelled to elevate to flames. Or, and just hang while I flesh this out, realize that perhaps your approach is a bit flawed if you truly believe you're not trolling.

How in the world is Line 6 responsible for how its customers act?

At various times, just about everyone who has objected to OP's post (including me) has expressed some opinion about what we think L6 SHOULD do to improve the product. There's a difference between an opinion and an attack. I think that what some people don't recognize is that this is a forum that is mostly populated by Helix OWNERS who are quite happy with the product. We come here to discuss the product. It's kind of a "social media" site for us, and a place where we can ask EACH OTHER about how we use the product, what we like and don't like, and workarounds we've discovered. It's NOT where L6 reps hang out. If you would like to speak directly to L6 reps, there's a HUGE thread over on TGP where you can get quick responses from the designers. The BIG BOSS, Frank Richotte (hope I spelled it right) constantly monitors that thread and responds to customer service issues, and Digital Igloo and others respond to more technical and usability questions. I know of NO OTHER modeling product with that degree of personal involvement by upper management. It's not so much that we object to negative opinions. But if you come here and INSULT a product we use and the company that supports us, you should EXPECT a reaction. When you then turn around and call us FANBOYS and BROWN NOSERS, now you're making it personal. That says more about YOU than US. BUY the product. USE it. Have a problem? We'll be happy to help, even if it's obvious that you didn't read the manual, WHICH NEEDS TO BE UPDATED (we've been told that'll happen with v3). If no one here can help, try TGP. CALL SUPPORT! A HUMAN will answer the phone. But don't come here and get all nasty, and expect a different reaction than you'd get if you behaved like that in the real world!

I’ve owned my Helix LT for about ten months or so. Like many of us here, I love it. Although I don’t take advantage of it currently, the platform is awesome. Developing and exchanging patches across various devices for various purposes is great. It was only a matter of time before this thread kicked up with no new ‘toys’ in the latest release complaint. Glad everyone loves the tuner. I truly think LIne 6 is harshly criticized by some for over delivering. In my ten months of ownership there have been at least three updates. Delivering all the legacy effects(for which I still haven’t gone thru many), many new amp models such as Placater, Cartographer, etc and many new effects. It hasn’t been that long since the previous release. Lot of people have requested metering. I’d love to see it to to help maintaining volumes. I imagine that is something the new refresh rate will help with. Either way my purchase has only increased in value three times now.. And the ecosystem keeps building out so I am learning SOOO much from folks here, YouTube, etc. Thanks to all for that.

I've been using digital modelers for 15 years. You name it, I've tried it. I've had dealings with all of their support departments. Well, those that even HAVE support departments. Line6 is one of the very few that REALLY DOES CARE about it's users. As has been mentioned, they don't OWE us ANYTHING new. If all they cared about was our money, they wouldn't have had to add ANYTHING. Yet, I've lost count of the extras they've given us. And if either of you spent any time over on TGP, you'd also know that they've got the BEST support crew in the business. I don't get fanboys either. I DO get loyalty to a company that's EARNED it. Another thing I don't get - you own a TESLA and you're worried about $1500 for a modeler??!??!?? I should have such problems!

Go over to TGP. Read the MANY posts by L6 representatives announcing ahead of time that this update would be primarily CORE TECHNOLOGY improvements (AND the usual bug fixes), laying the groundwork for good stuff to come. AND then they threw in a much improved tuner. Your entitlement attitude is what has prompted all the negative responses, NOT fanboy-ism! L6 OWES us NOTHING other than bug fixes! Everything they've added since the first release has been icing on the cake. To state that appreciation and acknowledgement of that FACT is BS is insulting to everyone here. Your criticism is NOT warranted.

With the Helix, you enter the world of software. To wit, some common software engineering axioms might be worth keeping in mind when considering upgrades, their frequency, etc. FAST. GOOD. CHEAP. Choose any two. - Common Project Scheduling Mantra Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later: 9 women CANNOT make a baby in ONE MONTH. - Fred Brooks

I know how you feel, brother. When I was but a lad on the precipice of adolescence, I came up with the idea that male and female organs might actually fit together somehow. Now all kinds of people are doing that and not one. single. person. has thanked me for the original concept. On a less ludicrous note, I've chased after these a-holes selling paid for presets for quite a while now. They site-rip Custom Tone, buy producers' monetized tones, and then sell them on eBay. Every time I see one of them advertise in threads I ask the direct questions (never answered). With respect to people all butt-hurt because their uploads are used as templates for other tones, that is what they are there for. It's crowd-sourced content. Get over yourself or start charging for your stuff. Frikkin' cry babies.

If you have ANY line 6 software opened when you are trying to use the Updater it won't work. You have to close everything else out first and then run the Updater.....works every time!

Ya know the way I see this is if Line-6 would not make the firmware available thru anything but "Line 6 Updater", there wouldn't be any confusion factor here to mess with and you wouldn't be so tired. With how its setup now (new firmware available for download "twice" (with updater and a download) and its right next to HX Edit in the same DL section, Line 6 is creating all the confusion, not the user.

rd2rk, thank you for proving my point. That's exactly the kind of response I was expecting, proving that fanboys have extremely thin skin. Any criticism of their beloved company or product results in a reflexive shriek. So what you're telling me is that Line 6 is incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time? They can't fix bugs and add amps simultaneously? As I said before, I love my Helix, but I'm not afraid to criticize when I feel it is warranted. The fact that your response is to marginalize anyone who dares to dissent from the herd is exactly why Line 6 will never get as much honesty as brown-nosing in this place.

Oh, I’m mortally wounded! I guess the lesson here is to never step on your dainty little toes. Goodnight, Nancy!

just to say I understand anyone can create patches like this i would but i was the first one on custom tone to upload this idea so would have appreciated a credit i don't the cash i would have liked a nod to my patch though.

Really, Line 6??? It's been how long since your last update and you couldn't find the time for at least ONE new amp or effect? Oh, but the tuner's nice. Sheesh! p.s. Everyone else, please spare me the BS about we should be happy with whatever we get. Frankly, I'd pay extra for new amps if that will motivate you guys. You're so involved with all the new product cross-compatibility issues that you've forgotten why we came here in the first place. I still love my Helix, but waiting for the crumbs to fall is getting old.

Any other millennial shaming you'd like to do? Did I inadvertently kill a polar bear, too?