Good thread and great information throughout .... I echo what many have said in response here. I've had a bit of history with these Line 6 Spiders and personally, I feel that with these modelling amps you NEED to learn how to build your own patches to suit your personal taste buds. The tools are in there. It takes a combo of skill, practice, plus trial and error. Not for the faint of heart. It comes with the territory. Like painting a picture, there are lots of outcomes that are possible. I, like others here, have ALWAYS been able to get "something useful" out of these amps. You just have to work at it. I think the key (imho) is if you just plug in, try a few presets and hate everything you're hearing, it doesn't mean there isn't some really good sounds in the amp, it just means you haven't figured out how to get them (or more importantly what you want to hear) yet. You know the old saying "don't blame the tool" although the right tool for the job makes everything a lot easier. I enjoy the challenge of tweaking these amps, it is empowering to make something that I really like with them and I have always managed to do it.. Currently evaluating a Spider V 30 MKII, I like it but will probably get the 60 instead. A bit more appreciated bang for the buck over the 30 imho. The others upstream are too big/heavy for my needs.