Hillman1312

Interesting thought. I'm not copying and redistributing any software but I'm capturing a "model of a model". However the model (the IR) is not a 1:1 copy of the original model (hehe, gets confusing right ...) but rather a model of something that I created using my own creativity, i.e. I modelled my own model. I don't think the IP rights of Line 6 stretch that far. Now the interesting question arises if it would be possible to (by way of example) shoot an IR of an Ownhammer IR and a Redwirez IR mixed together and with some EQ applied. Anyway, back to music making and getting creative with the tools. I'm in IP for a living while making music for a hobby ... I prefer to keep it like that.

Indeed, this IR was made to go with the Placater or 2204 or Plexi amp models. I personally like that tone and don't do much in the more modern (heavier) styles. But I can give it a try of course :-) W.r.t. the hi/lo cuts, I agree this should not be overdone, but I believe that for this particular IR (I don't have the settings anymore) the cuts were quite moderate. At the same time, since I'm combining different cabs the idea was also to use one cab more for the lower end and the other more for the higher end. Cuts were used to get that effect (in part, it was actually quite a complex preset with 2 or 3 additional EQ's if I recall correctly.

Thanks, glad you like it. I need to admit that I saved another patch over the one I used to create the IR. From the top of my head I believe the Greenback had a SM57 at 1" with about 10% of early reflections and the T75 was mic'd with a Royer 121 ribbon mic pulled back 3.5" and about 35% early reflections. Both cabs had different low cuts and high cuts and I used 2 additional EQ's to get the tone where I wanted it to be (using the amp settings i selected at that time). I believe the mix was 50/50 (note that the T75 was a bit lower in volume because the mic was further away from the speaker). I'm not sure if this IR includes it, but I also made one (just for fun) with an additional GB 25 mic'd up with a room mic pulled back to the maximum (low in the mix). This also gave nice results but it lacked a bit " bite" if that makes sense. Anyway, options are endless and with HX Native one could combine as much cabinets/mics/eq's etc as one would like. Let me know what you'd like and I can give it a try .... no guarantees, this is all just for fun. The IR also depends on the amp that it is to be combined with of course obviously ...

I agree; that said, I tried a few of his tones (the Britt Amp pack) and with my gear they need a bit of tweaking as they're still quite bright. I guess that my be because of the guitar and speakers I'm using. Anyway, when I mentioned 5-5.5 Khz High cut I meant high cut in the IR block. This would be in the same range as having an EQ High cut in the range 8-10. In fact, an 8 KHz EQ high-cut could be similar to an IR-Block High-cut of below 5 ... have not really tested that. I see Scott from the Helix channel very often dial in the high cut of his IR at 4.7 KHz. Anyway, this is all just juggling with numbers .... best thing is probably to experiment at (or close to) gig-volume and see what settings sound good (do protect your ears !)

There's a video from Jason Sadites that explains this. He found that a high-cut of 12KhZ using a dedicated EQ block gives (nearly) the same sound as a high-cut of about 5.7 KHz on a Cab/ IR block. I tried this as well and can confirm. For live playing I have my high cuts between 5 and 5.5 KHz depending on the amp and cab/ir I'm using. On low volume through headphones, studio monitors or even in-ears that may sound a bit dull, but once you start increasing the volume (don't go too high !) you'll find this to work well.

I would not be too worried about the low frequencies; this is not the frequency range where a guitar sits in the mix anyhow. However, the weight of this cabinet is impressive ... not easy to carry with one hand while carrying your guitar in the other and the Helix on your back .... That said, very curious to learn how it sounds. I expect to see comparisons with the powercab coming online soon :-)

For me it would be the 2204, 2204MOD and the Placater Dirty mostly combined with a tube screamer with gain at 0 or with a Heir apparent. The Placater Dirty is very flexible and can go from low gain basic/classic rock (I agree.... whatever that really means) to very high gain/ metal tons (switch the saturation to "on"). As for the cab I'm using an Ownhammer IR mostly (their GNR 25 MMC) but you can get somewhat similar tones using a dual cab configuration with Greenback 25 and a 1960 T75. The problem I have with the Placater is that there many options/ variables. One can easily get lost ... at the same time I need to admit that this is also the strength of this amp model. On the MOD2204 I generally dial back the mid boost from 4dB to about 2.5 dB, but that's just a personal setting and also may be caused by the type of cab/IR I'm using. The MOD2204 and Placater can give you very similar sounds by the way.

You may also consider what you actually want to achieve. I personally use an Alto TS308, which is like the little brother of the Headrush 112. It is not perfect and other more expensive speakers like the Yamaha's that DunedinDragon uses will (should!) sound much better. The point for me is that I want to be able to dial in tones at home that accurately enough represent what any audience will hear through a PA. In other words, when on stage (let's hope that happens again soon ...) I don't rely on the Alto as a main source of amplification, at most a bit of support or a monitor; in fact I might not even use/need it (I'm moving to IEM soon). If, however I would want to use my onstage sound as the only/main sound for guitar then the Alto might not be enough and I would be looking into something like the Powercab. But I agree, these are expensive .... Very recently Harley Benton has released a 212 FRFR cabinet for about 300 Euro. On paper this may look like a nice alternative to the Powercab although it seems to lack the co-axial speakers and the integrated IR modelling (which is a feature that makes no sense to me; I use pretty straightforward presets and have never run out of DSP in the Helix; moreover I usually add some effects after the IR/ Cab block) If I were you I'd probably spend the money on the 112 (or the 108) and try it for some time. If it really doesn't work then either send the speaker back or sell them and move to the more expensive PC+ solution.

I purchased the GNR 25 MMC as well as their new Evolution bundle. I use the sounds from the summary folders. My experience was somewhat similar initially in that I found the IR's to be a bit bass-heavy or muddy or whatever term you may use. However, this may be because I was comparing to the stock cabs which have a different (more flat ??) frequency response. Using a low cut at 110 - 130 Hz in the IR block helps a lot and for high cuts (in the IR block) I go around 4.5 - 6 depending on the amp model. For the Plexi Brt the first thing I do is turn down the master volume and the gain. The master volume defaults to 10 but I start with setting that at around 8. Drive is set to taste and depends on what I want to play. Next, lower the bass and play a bit with treble and presence to get a decent balance over the whole range. To get a more tight bottom end I almost always add a tube-screamer with gain at 0.5, tone at default and the level at around 8 or 9 (which is also the reason I turn down the drive on the amp). Works great and give you nice and very versatile (hard) rock tones. That said, the Plexi Brt model can easily become quite aggressive/harsh so be careful with the presence and treble, in particular if you're also going live with this amp. I changed most of my patches to work with the Placater Dirty model. This model is amazing and gives you a very wide range of distorted tones. Other than this I don't use EQ (with an exception here and there of course).

Hello POD Go forum, I just posted this in the Helix forum. Maybe of interest to you as well and to test the IR that is attached. https://line6.com/support/topic/56872-impulse-responses-captured-from-helix/

Hello forum, I recently watched a video on youtube from Steve Sterlacci where he explained more on the POD Go and what he missed in that device. One of the things he mentioned was that the POD Go apparently is not capable of processing dual cabs. The obvious alternative to me seemed to use multi-mike or or multi-cab or even multi-mic-multi-cab impulse responses, as most of us (I assume) have the Helix, POD or any other device for the reason of not having to own multiple amps and cabs. There are many free IRs available from around the internet some of which are pretty good. The downside I see is in trying to find the good ones which often involves a lot of trial and error. This made me thinking for those of us who have both a Helix (Full, LT, stomp or native) and the POD wouldn't it be great if we could make an impulse of the cab section in our Helix, bake an IR from that and then import the same into the POD...... So I did some research and it appears that making IRs is actually quite simple. So, I set up (pretty quickly) a cab section with added EQ and made my own impulse response. Next, I imported the IR in my Helix and A/B-ed it to see if it worked... and luckily it did. At least over headphones and except from a few dB difference in volume I did not notice any tonal difference. So I'm attaching this IR for you to test and use as you see fit. I'm very curious to understand what you think of the tones you can get. The cab section is a mix of the Greenback 25 and the 1960 T75 models. I added some shelve EQ (the Jason Sadites "betteriser" as he sometimes calls it) , an EQ high cut at 12 KhZ and and EQ low cut at 100 Hz. Reason for doing that is that this should make the IR pretty usable in a live situation without needing a further EQ block. The IR works pretty nice with the Marshall amps in the Helix. Let me know what you think (either positive or negative, as long as it is constructive of course ;-)) HXIR 412 Dual test.wav

Thank you for this very informative and extensive discussion. Getting a good tone, in particular a good live tone, is getting easier for me based on what I've learned over here for the last about 1.5 years. From my experience the stock settings on most amps and cabs are usable for playing at low volume or over headphones. However, once volume goes up and tones are meant to be amplified at loud volumes things change (Fletcher Munson) and this harshness or fizz or whatever you want to call it starts to become a problem (for me at least). What I nowadays do (but this may change again, this is a journey....) is to cut the IR or cab block at around 5.6 - 6.0 KHz which more or less corresponds to cutting at around 12 KhZ when using an EQ block (see the video from Jason Sadites and elsewhere on this forum). Initially I thought this was quite a bit but upon doing some "measurements" it turns out that there still exists a significant portion of signal in the frequency range above that cutoff frequency (even going up to about 10 KHz). The cutoff filter merely attenuates those higher frequencies (i.e. 6 - 10Khz) but doesn't take them out alltogether. (This is probably known to sound engineers but it was a bit unexpected for me as an amateur.) The OP suggests to start with a cutoff at 8KHz and work up from there. What does that mean? Cutoff on an EQ block or on a CAB/IR block? And, if you say "work up" does that mean go below 8KHz or above? Also a suggestion was made to use the tilt EQ as a way to model mic position. Great idea and it might be an alternative to using cuts, but what is the center frequency that you use/ suggest? BTW, I've also received some live presets from other users which do not at all require high cuts to be made. So, amp, cab and mic selection as well as the amp settings also allow to get a great tone without any cuts and without the "fizz". Thanks again, this is a very helpful thread!!!

Here's some screenshots from Ableton with added lines for easier comparison. Same amp, same IR only changes are the frequency cuts (IR block or EQ block). Bottom graph is a reference based on just the amp + IR without any cuts. When using the EQ block the signal strength starts to drop (albeit very slightly) already in the 3-4 kHz region where the IR cuts start to drop a bit after that. Above 9-10 kHz the IR cuts are slightly steeper. Overall, very subtle differences and again .... this is based on a frequency sweep and not on actual playing.

FWIW I did some experimenting by using a sine sweep going from 10 - 15 KHz as a feed into HX Native using Ableton Live as DAW. At the end of the signal chain I put an analyser so I could see the response by the model as a function of the frequency. I know, this is not the same as playing chords with all the overtones and all that, but it gives you a good idea on how the model responds as a function of frequency. The signal chain was very simple : Amp (2204) into an Ownhammer IR and into a Hi/Lo cut EQ block. When testing the EQ block the high cut on the IR block was off and vice versa when I was playing around with the high cut on the IR block the EQ was bypassed. Similar to what Mr. Sadites is saying in his video I found that an Hi/Lo Cut EQ block with a high cut at 12 KhZ would give nearly the same response as a high cut on the IR block at around 5.8 - 6.0 Khz. The difference in response was very very small but to be honest I did not expect it would require this big of a difference in cutoff frequency. I always wondered why the guy from the Helix channel puts his high cut so low, but actually this experiment shows that it really is not that low at all. Apart from the experiment above this setup is pretty interesting as it also allows you to get a good idea on the frequency response of different mics, different cabs or basically any model or combination of models in the Helix. For a nerd like me this helps in understanding why certain models sound the way they do and it is in fact helping me in dialing tones. For those who would like to try as well, here's where I downloaded the sweep file: https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_highdefinitionaudio.php The volume is pretty high as an input to you helix/ native so be careful and correct for that. Also, turn down the volume on your speakers/ headphones.... these are sine waves, very different from music :-))

Probably best to start with the files in the Summary folder (and then the "L" files). I usually end up using either the SS, M+ or DK files. Have fun!

I'm very happy with the OwnHammer (r)Evolution bundle. Gives you a wide range of speaker cabs with (for me) more than enough variations/ mixes. Well worth the money as far as I'm concerned. https://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=449 I tried some 4x12 Cabs from Celestion with V30's; these also sound very good, yet different. Need to admit that I'm currently not using them. My favourite at the moment is the OwnHammer 412 MRBW GNR M25 MMMC. Those files work great with the Plexi and JCM models in the Helix to get that classic Marshall sound, but when combined with the HiWatt or Placater models (or whatever these are called exactly) it can give very nice clean and breakup tones as well. Not yet sure if I like this cab with more modern hi gain sounds (like the RevvGen) but usually the gain provided by the Plexi and JCM models is sufficient for my needs anyhow. Hope this helps ...

I get disconnects from time to time as well, but strangely this happens only for HX Edit. I'm running Ableton as DAW and I never had issues with that programme. I guess it has to do with the HX Edit software itself and not so much with the USB cable or which port I'm using (I've tried different cables/ports also). FWIW, I'm running an old MacBook Pro with OSX El Capitan and the latest HX Edit software. I don't need to install a HX specific driver, just works out of the box. The disconnects are inconvenient indeed and it should not happen, but I've learned to live with it. Apart from the dropouts I'm also experiencing slow response from time to time. Not really helping you, but at least so you know you're not the only one having these kind of issues.

I'm no expert by far and still learning everyday, but the "keep it simple" advice is the best you can get at the moment. Actually I just started over again creating basic presets for my needs and forced myself to keep the amount of blocks to a minimum so as to concentrate on the core tone (i.e. keep it simple). Once that is set you can move on to "more sophisticated" signal chains including parallel paths, all kinds of EQ blocks etc. etc. I'm not sure exactly what sound you're after, but try this: - In the signal in activate the noise gate and set the threshold at around 55 - 60 dB just to avoid some noise; not strictly needed. - Pick the RevvGen Red amp+cab combination - You may want to lower the gain slightly (my personal preference) - In the cab settings set the reflections to around 20 - 30 - Add a room reverb (reduce the mix to around 30% !!) after the amp/cab block This should get you a good starting point and should sound already pretty convincing. Next, tweak the EQ on the amp itself so that it sounds good together with your specific guitar. Be careful with treble and presence; at headphone volume levels you may feel the need to increase those and/or to decrease the mids, but once you get to high volumes the sound may get ear-piercingly harsh. From here you can go in many directions, but don't try them all at once. Options are endless, but the obvious ones to try first: - change the microphone and/or change the distance - change the cabinet - go for a dual cab or put two cabs in parallel paths with two of the same (or different ?) cabs, one mic'd with a SM57 the other with a R121 or R160 - .... and so on and so forth - Need a more tight bass for palm muting? Add a tube screamer with gain at 0 and tone/ volume to your liking right before the amp. Should work in my view ....

Yep, I have considered that. Actually I was thinking about buying a poweramp and a cabinet just like the other guy has, but as I said, this actually defies the purpose of the all-in-one-unit. We don't do a lot of gigs and if we do don't get paid (a lot). We play for fun basically and with that in mind I don't want to spend the extra money on gear that I don't really need. I may go for a bigger speaker (maybe the Alto TS 312, i.e. the bigger brother of my 308). The bigger speaker will move a bit more air and that might just be enough. As to patch creation I'm getting closer to what I want but keep getting confused. I downloaded the Michael Britt preset pack (there's a discount now) and that pack has some really nice sounds and seem to be dialed in for live use. But, if you would compare those tones at the same volume to the free presets that for example Jason Sadites has on customtone or even the factory presets loaded in the Helix, then the difference is huge in terms of brightness. I know, the factory presets may not be the best, but as a user I would expect that these tones would also be usable for (high volume) live applications. But, things get harsh pretty quickly when the volume knob is turned clock-wise (the Fletcher Munson principle). Also if you would listen to isolated guitar tracks from recorded songs then the tone is actually very often on the brighter side rather than on the darker side. It's because of the mix that this isn't very noticeable I guess. Anyway, I'll get there eventually :-)

Headrush 108 or the Alto TS308 (these are essentially identical) will do the job. Even though this speaker "only" has an 8" speaker it can go really loud. I recently tried out some old KRK Rokit 6 monitors. For home use and dialing in tones these also work pretty well; soundwise actually preferable over the Alto to my ears.

Ok, so I did a first test with the preset and compared it to my presets with the same type of drive (different amp though) and I think I found the issue in that there were a lot less of these "mids" and more "highs". I changed the IR and the amp settings (not that much though) and came a lot closer to your sound. Next I cranked up the volume of my Alto and it gave a lot fuller sound where my original preset was closer to being thin and slightly harsh. I know, this is all not very scientific but at least this gets me in the right direction. So, thanks a lot !!

Thanks a lot, I'll give this a try over the weekend and let you know how it compares with my other presets. I don't have that particular kind of guitar but for sure I'll be able to tell the difference using my own instruments. There's a lot of discussion about "the mids" which makes me wonder what typical frequency range for those are? People talk about "low mids" and "high mids" but for me it is actually not very clear what is meant with that in terms of frequencies.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm experiencing as well. I can hear the other guitarist very well but can barely here myself. The Alto helps a bit but not much .... Would you mind sharing a preset that has the cut you are referring to? I can then compare it with my tones pretty easily myself and using my guitar, speaker etc. I don't know much about PA systems but by the looks of it this is an old system. We rent the rehearsal room so need to stick with whatever is available. That said, the sound coming from the Alto (albeit a bit on the brighter side) sounds cleaner and more articulate than what comes out of this "PA" (my quotes indeed :-)) So yeah, for sure the PA we use is not helping, but in my view it's not really bad either. Good question ... for one it is that there's a lot of volume coming from the 4x12 and it is difficult to compete with that. So hearing myself properly and fitting in the mix is an issue. And yes I have thought about getting a Poweramp and a cabinet (or maybe a Powercab) but to me that defies a lot of the purpose of these great all-in-one units. I'd rather spend my money on other gear. As to the audience ? I don't know yet ... like pretty much in the rest of the world there's no gigs at the moment and I only joined this band in January. My guess would be that in a complete mix with a decent PA there would not be a real problem.... but that is actually what I don't know at the moment.

Hello again forum, I'm in a band with 2 guitarists. I myself play through a Helix LT connected to the "PA" in the rehearsal room and for some extra monitor signal I sometimes use my Alto 308. The other guitarist plays a Kemper but does not use the cabinet simulation. Instead, he uses a power amp and feeds the amp signal + effects of his Kemper to a regular 4x12 cabinet in the room. The other band members seem to like his tone better than mine. This can have varies reasons obviously and it might be that my presets may need some work, but in general I believe that they like it better simply because it is a totally different experience. I.e. they hear (and feel) the actual cabinet, whereas from me they hear a (simulated) mic'd cabinet which is not in the same room. This however appears a difficult message to get across and I'm not sure how to improve this situation. It's a bit frustrating..... Any advice/ experience? In order to take out the possible preset issues I'm happy to share some of my tones so you can check/listen accordingly (although I need to say the more recent ones are based on some commercial Ownhammer IRs, which I cannot distribute). Thanks!

Maybe share the same preset of both setlists on this forum so we could have a look/ listen as well? This might help in further understanding the problem.