davec69

On 5/20/2022 at 2:22 PM, scotterp said:

I am curious to know if there is a way to reset the pin as well. I have a similar situation, but had a second mixer as a backup. Just haven't gotten back to fixing this one yet. If there is a way to reset, that would be great. Don't feel like trying 9999 possible pins before I hit the right one. 

 

On my second mixer, I wrote the PIN on the mixer itself to avoid this in the future! :)

Well, no luck with support.  They were going to get back to me regarding the pin code, but nothing to date.

Regarding the LCD fix, basically they don't have parts for this mixer.  Sad...really.  I've owned this mixer since 2012, and there is still nothing that touches it from a product idea standpoint.  Unfortunately, the implementation just needed a few more years of development, and that didn't happen. 

Fortunately, I did find a "Sold for parts" M20D, and was able to get my mixer LCD,  up and working again.  I am good until the next breakdown.  I'll probably buy up a third M20D for additional parts, if I find a good deal on one.

Done.  Ticket created.  Thanks.

Looks like the LCD display on my M20d has died.  What are the options for getting this repaired.  Does Line 6 still work on the M20d mixer.  Can anyone suggest a repair shop near South San Francisco, CA?

Also, since the LCD is not working, I cannot access the Info page>WiFi settings on the mixer, to get the security pin.  When I try to access the security pin on my one currently connected Ipad, it says it's only accessible from the mixer.  Does anyone know a work around for getting the current security pin, when LCD is out?  Is there a default pin, after reset?

There have been reports from others, of sound cutting out during a show. 

Our band has experienced this as well.  For us, we lose all sound.  When this happens, the only remedy is to turn off the mixer, then turn it on again.  

After we restart the mixer, it has not happened again in the same show.  Now, before every show, I turn on the mixer until it finishes booting, then I turn it off and reboot for a second time, just in case.

There have been a few posts about a ribbon cable inside the mixer, that is very close to the metal back wall of the mixer.  On occassion (sudden movement, ect) the cable can touch the metal mixer wall and short the system.  Some guys have opened the mixer and put a strip of tape on the mixer wall, to stop the cable from touching.  This may or may not be related to the problem.

Photos in this thread

Here's a new one.  Not even sure how this is possible.

Firstly, at last weekends show, I got a black screen and error message (didn't write it down, but something related to "App") upon initial power up of our M20D.  Talk about crapping z pantz.......

Fortunately, after turning the mixer off, and restarting, It powered up successfully.

The next problem appeared during the show.  I had two different microphones, each plugged into a different channels of the M20D, appearing on the same fader.  I don't remember the exact channels, but it was like the mic plugged into channel 12 was appearing at channel 6 along with the mic plugged into channel 6.  Channel 6 was used for a sax player, and channel 12 was used for a trombone player.  I set the level for the sax player, and it was fine, then the trombone started playing, and the volume was much louder, but also appearing at fader 6.  Channel 12 showed no signal.  Never seen that before.

I'm thinking that maybe a reinstall of the v1.20 firmware is in order.  Is this possible? Would my saved setups still be available after the firmware upgrade?

One note, the setup used was a very old setup, which I had not used in quite a while.  Could it have gotten corrupted, along the way?

My humble opinion, as a Dreamscape system owner since 2012.  

Looks like the death nail for the Dreamscape line, occurred when Yamaha bought out Line 6.  Yamaha has their own PA products, they didn't need the trouble.  They probably also had some idea, that the poor design of the M20d would eventually start causing many of the problems that we are seeing now, like intermittent sound, level changes, trim problems.  People getting shocked due to grounding issues. (the above issues taken from posts on this forum).  Better to let the products fade into obscurity, than to prolong it's life with a firmware update.

Users have been adding feature requests for the M20d for 5 or 6 years.  Not one was ever implemented.  The android app never materialized. Of course, they'll say that it was never promised.

The dreamscape products could have been a great line, but I'm afraid, their days have come and gone.  The rest of the life cycle appears that it will be repair work, and eventually, the dark recesses of basements and attics, or the trash heap.

For the second show now, the sound on our M20d has disappeared, mid performance.  One second, we are singing along, next second, zero sound from the mixer.  The only fix is to restart the mixer in the middle of the song.  

Last night, we only had two mains, (Fender Expo Speakers) and one monitor connected to the analog outputs of the M20D. 

Has anyone found a cause, or even better, a solution for this problem?  

BTW, we do have v1.20 firmware.

Search the forum, and you'll find countless posts with this same topic.  Going back for years.   It's not going to happen.  Yamaha bought Line 6.   I'm guessing that they would rather focus on Yamaha Live Sound products, leaving M20D owners to wonder what might have been.  

Ask the M20D owners who have been waiting years for an Android app for the M20D, or those owners who posted hundreds of Ideas on the Ideascale page for the M20D.  None of which has been developed.

Then you have responses like the one below.

.

As long as your mixer still does what it did when you bought it....

 

If you want "more" then look at changing it for something else, though I have to say (owning several different digital consoles) the M20D is quite a ways out ahead of most of them, despite the fact that the others are more recent releases.

 

What exactly do you want it to do that it does not do already?

Welcome to the Stagescape ghost town........not sure if you'll get a response from anyone relevant.  My guess is that Yamaha (who purchased Line 6) has all but given on any PA products coming from Line 6/.   There has been zero development on any of the Stagescape products, despite years of ideas being suggested by users.  If you like the M20d as it is, go for it.  If you're looking for something with possible future developement, look elsewhere.

Thanks for the help.  

I disabled my Vipre antivirus, and I can now see the website as before.   Now I just have to figure out how to stop Vipre from blocking CSS.

For many weeks now, the formatting on the Line 6 Forum and website has been screwed up for me, with many most images missing. Is anyone else getting the same thing? I've tried Chrome, Firefox and IE, but all have the same problem. For years, the formatting was fine. See attachments

Here you go:

To create a Group encoder:

1.  Double-press any unassigned hardware encoder. - The Select Channels For Group Encoder window will open, displaying all channels available for grouping.

2.  Tap the channel icons you’d like to include in the GroupName the Group in the Group Name field, then tap the blue OK button. -

A Group controller strip will appear in the M20d stage view, automatically assigned to the hardware encoder you originally double-pressed. Now you can adjust all 3 channels with the one Group encoder.

No problems, It's just nice knowing that someone else visits this forum. 

Sorry for the confusion.  You are correct about the Line 6 guy.

No.  I have not seen any press releases pointing either direction.  Matter of fact, I haven't heard or seen anything related to Line 6's PA product line.  Based on that fact, I'm inclined to agree with the comments, and state that it is only speculation.

Check out this Anderton review video of the new Line 6 Helix pedal, wherein the Anderton Music guy speaks of the return of the original founder to Line 6, and their desire in his opinion, to become the leader of guitar modelers again, getting away from other things like PA gear and such.  Starts around 4 minutes into the video.

I like the Aux idea.  Maybe you can put a feature request in Idealscale and watch it get ignored like all the other customer suggested feature requests  :lol:

FYI.  QSC's just released firmware just added Android support to the Touchmix series mixers.  In addition:

• Support for MIDI-over-USB Footswitches
• Option to Omit Output Settings from Scene Recall
• Multi Language Info System - In addition to English, the mixer’s built-in Info system and demo screens now include user selectable options for Chinese (Mandarin), French, German, Russian and Spanish
• Auxes to Main L/R Assignability -The auxiliary buses may now be assigned to the Main Left and Right outputs, allowing any auxiliary to function as a sub-group.

Those are the kind of firmware updates that I expected from the M20D.  A great example of a company listening to it's customers.

We're just discussing here, so no worries about disrespect and the like.   Looks like we agree on most points.   I'll just touch on the couple of spots where we disagree.

We'll have to agree to disagree with the belief that Line 6 does not take into consideration the tone of discussion about the M20d on this forum, or for that matter every other social media avenue out there.  It's 2015, those avenues highly affect the success or failure of products.  In general, discussion of the M20d is good on the social media front.  There are no glaring defects or omissions in the M20d that people are going on about, and owners and non owners alike generally think of it as a good product.  Couple that with a quiet discussion forum, where it appears that many owners are just happy to have what they have, and I doubt that we will see any future product updates for the M20d.  No need for Line 6/Yamaha to invest any more money into it.  It is what it is, so to speak.

I can only speak for myself when I say that I expect more from a develop-able product like the M20d in 2015, and point to a few other products that I feel get it right.

 I've mentioned previously my Kemper Profiling Amp.  These guys know how to develop a product, and keep customers engaged for years.  They consistently interact on their user discussion forum, and us users see the results of those interactions, as updates and new features added to the product.  You definitely feel like you're getting your money's worth when you buy a Kemper product.  What is funny is that Line 6 also does this with many of  their guitar products.  This makes me think that it's definitely a case of the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  

TC Electronic, another company that has fully embraced the develop-able product concept.   They listen their product owners and incorporate new features regularly.

And finally, QSC, another example of a company that seems to be on a the right path towards developing their Touchmix mixer with customers in mind   Just checked out their forum out of curiosity, and saw a thread from someone asking when an Android app would be available.   One of the QSC moderators chimed in that it was under development, and would probably be available early next year, along with a Iphone Aux app.   Compare that answer to the same question being asked on this forum about the M20d:

Hi,

Can the M20D be controlled with an Android tablet via wifi?

Cheers

This response comes from one of the Line 6 "Experts"

it's a 2000$ mixer....

the argument can be made that people who can buy one... can also buy a 200$ ipad.

sure android would be easy for you since you already own one....

and i have nothing against android....

if that stops you from buying one, maybe you just don't want it bad enough?

The above thread can be found on this forum.  Search "Android" for yourself.   The Line 6 Moderator had this to say in the same thread:

I'm glad to hear that you're happy with the M20D as it is.  Many of us are.  My question is and has been,  what could have been if the M20D was given the full development backing the company that created it, or from Yamaha?  

The M20D was one of the first to out of the box with this new mixing idea, and initially appeared to have such great future development potential.  Couple this with the Idealscale page where customers could offer ideas as to future development, and It really made me want to get in on the ground floor, so to speak.   I had no idea that years later, the Ideascale would be full of customer "Ideas", but we'd all still be sitting on the ground floor waiting for the first "Idea" to be incorporated by Line 6.

To be honest, I was perfectly happy with the mixer that I had prior to the M20D.  It was the future development potential of the M20D that was a major attraction for me.  Sadly, it looks less and less like this will happen.  Especially with so many of you carrying the I'm happy with what I've got banner.  I'm sure this is taken into consideration by the powers that be.  

Sad really, I would have loved to see some of those customer ideas incorporated into the M20D.

Right next to the "upgradeitis" sanitorium, they'll build another one for old farts who live in the past.  They'll fill it up with the M20D, Behringer DDX3216, Synsonic Drum sets, Betamax video, Motorola Brick cell phones, Palm pilots and Rubiks cubes.  You guys can all sit around and talk about what a great place the world used to be, before all these new-fangled gadgets came along.   

I wonder which one will have more residents?.   ;)

Check this thread, maybe you have something similar:

http://line6.com/support/topic/13447-input-output-volume-drop-problems-solved/

Any M20D news at Summer NAMM 2015?

I agree.   I just realized that Kemper is a German company.  They admittedly have a very pro-user mentality when it comes to their products.  It's important to them that their customers feel like they're getting every dollar out of their purchase,  so they are constantly developing.  I'm sure those developments also advance their next product.

As mentioned, I own a Kemper Amp.  It's pretty much on the verge of amp technology, sImilar to the way the M20d is on the verge of mixer technology.   On the Kemper side, we just got v3.0 of the software which added several new features which users were waiting for.  You can read on the Kemper forum how this has increased user satisfaction, and increased brand loyalty by leaps.  New owners are flocking to the amp.

In between major version releases like v3.0, there have been countless minor updates, and fixes.  v2.4, v2.5, v2.6, v2.8, ect.  When they finally do release their next product, they will have all the current owners standing in line, and a whole batch of new owners ready to go.  

The good thing about new updates is that every user can decide when and If they want to install.  I'm sure there are some very happy M20d v1.0 users out there right now.  

Hi Dave,

 

I fully agree with you. (In German I would say "I underline everything you wrote" - but I don't know if this expression exists in English :-))

 

Let me add some words: There are some guys who are saying that every user wants every update for FREE - to me, this is lollipop.

 

As an example: I am using the app "OnSong" (for lyrics, chords, playbacks, setlists, etc.) - there are several updates for free (bugfixes, new features) and there are updates with special features that cost money. Could be an idea, or?

 

If there were an update where the monitorsection can be adjusted by several iphones (like the Yamaha TF ;-)) - I surely would BUY this feature.

 

The only thing I would like to know is, if there are any updates in future - elsewhere I would buy a different mixer. It is that easy: tell me, if there are updates in future (maybe the updates that I want the most :-)) or if Yamaha will dropp the M20D!

 

There is one thing I don't want: To buy a new mixer and 2 weeks later there is an update with a lot of new features for the M20D.

 

If the the development of the M20D has stopped - it's ok - but tell me. If there is a future for the M20D - it's ok - but tell me!

That's all! I don't want everything for free, I don't complain about the price drop. I don't expect impossible changes.

 

All that I expect is a statement about future of the M20D.

 

Greetinx

 

Roger

That's a little different in my opinion.   Those that follow that Apple mentality are a special breed.   These are people who are getting rid of one perfectly good piece of hardware, to purchase the latest version of that hardware.    It's amazing how companies like Apple have created this phenomenon.

I guess it's the way of the world.

The first digital incarnations of products have a naturally short lifespan (just look at mobile phones) and yet here we are investing in something we have every expectation of it lasting as long as its analogue counterparts.
 

 

See, here is where you, and others give the impression that you're expecting something more than you paid for. It is this bit that I don't understand.

 

What I meant in that statement is that when a company, any company listens to their user base and adds new features to a particular product, it creates enthusiasm for that product.  Not just for the current users, but for new users who may be on the fence or considering the purchase.  This is actually in the best interest of the company.  The users just reaps the reward.  It's a win win that can extend the life of a product for years, and increase customer satisfaction and brand loyalty.   It's the opposite of the Apple mentality.  Some companies have figured this out already.

 

Not entirely sure how Line6 can do this, other than the facilities we already have. Even with such a medium, it is down to individuals to get involved and sometimes that takes time to develop. PA isn't exactly the most interesting area of music production. Some of us find it fascinating, others just switch off. All the guys in my band care about is whether we sound good. They couldn't care less about how that sound is moulded from the raw inputs.

 

It's what they call a catch 22.  To create the vibrant user community, you have to create hype for the product in question.   This can happen many ways, but in the context of this discussion, it would most easily be accomplished by interacting with your users, finding out how they use your product,  and making efforts to increase customer satisfaction through things like product updates, user resources like video, audio, ect.  Once the hype is established, they will come.

Variax and the guitar range is an entirely different ball game. The pool of guitarists is considerably larger than the pool of PA owners. That sheer difference in boots on the ground makes it easier to get a vibrant community going and, gives Line6 a much bigger consumer base to secure.

 

I agree with you that the guitar community is larger, but that's kind of secondary from any companies perspective.  They have long ago figured out what numbers they need to make the M20d a successful product.   It may be only a fraction of the Variax user numbers.  Theoretically though, the same people that are available to the Variax, are also available to the M20d as a product.  It's up to Line 6, to figure out how to capture them. 

No, neither do I. As you say, StageScape was a curve ball when it was released and, in many ways, it was a game changer. You only have to look at the number of traditional PA companies who have now adapted their model ranges and, as you say, caught up. It is debateable whether any have surpassed the M20 across the board. Yes, some have features which have been requested, but they are missing something the M20 has. Others get pretty close.

Are Line6 right to keep quiet about future developments they are working on? Yes, in my opinion. It is all too easy for competitors to steal and weave those same ideas in to their product lines at an alarmingly fast pace. Especially when the other main players in the arena have PA as a bigger part of their portfolio than Line6 does. We're talking here about a product line that is still less than 3 years old, and yet by the way some are talking, you'd be forgiven for believing it dead.

 

 

I still think the M20d / Stagescape line has a large advantage over the other contenders.  It's a great product, with what seems like lots of potential.  Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what you or I think, if Line 6 has chosen not to develop the line further.   Keeping quiet about future developments is no way to increase hype for a particular product.   They're not doing anything that can't be done by countless other companies, including the thousands of factories in China.  The questions in my opinion is who will get there first, and who will have the satisfied customers waiting when it does arrive.  Being first to release a new product with all your special features, and not having the customers waiting for it, is kind of how we got here today with the M20d..  In my opinion, of course.

I understand what you're saying Si, but I think you may have missed MY whole point.   Like you, I am very happy with my M20d.  I'm not looking for or expecting any particular updates or new features.   A couple people earlier in the thread jumped on the update aspect and kind of hijacked the point.  Let me try to make this clear from my perspective.

Line 6 introduced a great product in the M20d.  It's in THEIR best interest to keep customers interested in their products.  This can be done in various ways.  One way is to engage with their customers, and do things like add new features to those products which customers request.  Other things like adding additional hardware to the line is another way.  Creating a vibrant user community to maintain interest.   All can extend the life of a product for many years.  Based on my experience with line 6 variax gear, and other products which I own, I've seen this in action.  When it works, it's great.

I have no idea what plans Line 6 or Yamaha have for the M20D.  It was way ahead of it's time in my opinion, which is one of the reasons it attracted my attention.  I like the idea of being on the leading edge of new audio technology.  That's what I hoped for with the M20D.  That's why I paid such a high price for it early on.  Unfortunately, now it seems that enthusiasm has faded away.  Not by the users, but by the company that released the product.    Now, several other manufacturers have caught up, and look to be on the path to advancing this idea.  When that happens, the M20d will go the way of so many other good ideas.  Eventually, people will start unloading them to get what they can towards their next purchase, which would be a shame for such a great product.  Anyone remember the Behringer DDX3216?  One of the original consumer digital mixers, along with the more expensive Yamaha 01/02 digital mixers.  I kept my DDX3216 for many years.  Like the M20d it was so far ahead of it's time, it gave users many years of use.  Then Behringer just dropped it.   That's when i started hearing talk of the M20d, which leads me to now.

I'm sure Yamaha will have something out there eventually.  The TF mixers look good, but that's a different animal.  The Line 6 concept behind the M20d was special in my opinion. I hope it doesn't go the way of the DDX3216.