PeterHamm

I'm assuming "Global" means for every bank?  Or can I set it different for each patch or setlist?  I usually keep my 4CM banks in a different setlist from my Amp/Cab models.

 

Thanks,

 

John

One easy way to do this is program your 4CM "amp" banks so that they don't use the main output at all, only sends and returns. You might not be able to do this if you're using a bunch of FX pedals, but if you can, it's a great solution.

Well I can't disagree with this yet because I don't have my Helix yet. And I have heard the Helix is a breeze to program and edit by touch. But I can tell you that if the Helix editor is made correctly this shouldn't be less easy to use versus hands on. I base this on the use of the Axe FX II editor, Kemper's Rig Manager, Line 6 Workbench and Gearbox among others. 

Well, editor will have mouse control. on the unit, you have a joystick, 8 knobs, and 8 buttons (plus the 6 buttons on the six main knobs). getting from point a to point b in terms of programming, once you learn the unit... the Editor might be slower for some (most?) than the unit itself... but... no more bending over... YESSSS!!!!

Why? I ran Cubase and Pro Tools all the time on one screen while I had the Fractal Editor (and or Rig manager) on the right side with NO issues. If its done right theres no issue Hamm. Of course, that was on a Mac, so on the PC you might be correct.  ;)

I realize that, but Line 6 has already told us not to run audio through Helix while you are editing. I am doubtin' that will change right away.

...Also, (as Zooey said too) add the ability to install L6 & 3rd party Amps and Cabs like Fractal and Kemper has done...

There are no 3rd party amp models, just IRs in Fractal (you still need them to make your amp model - no problem, there are tons...) and amp profiling (not the same as modeling) in the Kemper, though.

Save them, and reload them Hamm. Unless something was way off to begin with nothing tone raise should change much...

But there's been plenty of stories about Fractal firmware updates that changed the tone of the amp models enough that people had to adjust their patches. I don't want to take time for that.

...Only real answer is paid add-ons. I'd resent that on one level, especially if it happened right after it came out, but if it keeps new stuff coming for another x years, I'm in...

Totally agree. LOVED the almost-5-year-in updates that came out for the HD 500. The Vintage Model Pack was really worth the money and yes, in 5 years if they do something similar for Helix, they'll probably have my money.

It'l be easier on the rack guys too, not having to leave their DAW screens for the hardware as much.

Well, you still can't run your DAW and your editor at the same time I'll bet. And even if you CAN... I don't think I WOULD...

Thanks guys. You have been quite the help. Still not sure how i want to approach the IRs yet. i guess my main hang-up is how to audition each one semi-systematically...narrowing down just to what i need/want.

 

All info is welcomed and noted, as im sure you guys have forgotten more about Helix than i know yet. Respect!!

There are gobs of free ones to at least try, though. My experience has been that I LOVE what I get with dual cabs and I'm not bothering with IRs after trying a few and realizing I liked the control and flexibility of the built-in dual cabs way better.

But... I DO use IRs to dress up my acoustic and faux-acoustic powerBridge sounds. Whoah nelly that is awesome!

Line 6 historically hasn't obsessively tweaked existing models in the same way Fractal does, at least not in a public way. They do make improvements, but most of the time, these are simply listed as "miscellaneous bug fixes and improvements" on the release notes. Cliff at Fractal, on the other hand, gives details as to every improvement he's making. Cliff kind of reminds me of the guy who keep a bunch of muscle cars in his cars and is constantly tweaking them. Not that it's a bad thing, per se. At some point, though, it seems there's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to tweaking the modeling itself. I can think of a dozen other things I'd rather have than changes to the amp modeling.

But... I need to know that if I upgrade my firmware, I don't have to re-write patches to play at my church services that weekend because they've been tweaked under the hood. I want them to be right from the get go and mostly left alone (talking models, not factory patches, which I ignore anyway). Honestly, the sheer volume of firmware updates that Fractal does turns me off and would be a motivator for me to avoid those products. Not saying they don't sound great, but at some point I want ya to leave it be and let me play. (But give me NEW models, hellz yah!)

Not trying to tease anyone or hype anything, but the editor is really close to being ready. I know Frank, the Director of Operations, who posts over on The Gear Page said they are aiming to have it out by the end of the month, and I've heard nothing that would make me doubt that's still not the case. Your patience will be rewarded shortly!

Yes, they have been eerily silent, leading me to believe that they will, indeed, get you this Editor really soon.

But...

It's not going to be really easier to edit with the editor (I predict), just easier on your back, which is important to all you non-rack guys...

The amps that are in the Helix now are really useful to me. If they "improve them" and it ends up changing the sound of them much, I might not be real happy. If they add more, obviously we all will be happy.

So, it's a complicated dance I guess.

I rename the files of the one I use "001_xxxxxxx.xxx" so that I can easily put them back into the unit in order after a re-set.

Also, the editor is not out yet, but will be very very soon. so it's too early to evaluate how you will like the software.

I can tell you that I'm reasonably confident that most functions are far easier to navigate on the actual unit than they will be in a computer program.

spikey...

...again...

...both of those products have a Minimum Advertised Price assigned by the manufacturer. It isn't collusion. Call them and maybe they'll do better, maybe they won't.

It's not a conspiracy. Stop looking for one.

Well, for sure... when there's a new product that is out that is hard to get, that for sure is NOT the time to make killer deals on it... If I were the boss and you discounted one single dollar of Helix for a customer, you and I would be having a crucial conversation right away.

I remember when HD 500 came out. I was thrilled to pre-order it, got one of the first shipment, was happy with it for years and still am happy with it... I have a GREAT relationship with my salesguy at one of the big companies. But like every other company, at that point, there were no deals. That's not collusion.

The reason that there is an item from Maker A at 500 bucks and one at Maker B for 500 bucks has nothing to do with collusion or price fixing. They just have both learned that they can sell a ton of said unit at 499.00, and only half a ton at 501.00. Maker A sees Maker B selling something well at 500 bucks, and figures out how to make something similar at the same price... and they make it. Or they make one that is very similar that they can sell for 50 or a hundred bucks less. It's not collusion, though. It's competition.

Maker C comes along and sells a similar unit for 650 bucks that does more, but not nearly as many people buy it. So... Maker A, Maker B, and even maker D, E and F look at that and say... "hmmm... better make one for 500, not 600 or 650. That's why in the 500-dollar category in the past five years there have been a bunch of items in the modeler category. Product research, common sense, gauging the market.

...OTOH I know for a fact that Helix was not discounted with Musicians Friend, because they told me it was the Manufacturer that would not let them take a percentage off...

Unless you work for MF, you only know what the guy told you on the phone. The fact is, they might have told you what they wanted to say to close the deal. Yeah, sales guys do that...

...since a manufacturer REQUIRING a price is price fixing, which is illegal...

No. I'm pretty sure that any manufacturer can, in fact, require a certain price to be charged. Apple does this the best, imho.

Price fixing is when 2 or more competing companies collude to fix prices for a class of products that compete with each other.

I'm guessing you cross-posted with phil.

Back when I used to work in the MI business, the big company that had an M.A.P. policy that they policed heavily was Yamaha.

So... I could sell a Korg T3 (remember that?) and make the company (and me) a few bucks... or, for about the same price, perhaps sell whatever Yamaha had against it at the time (SY77, SY85), but because I couldn't advertise (even in telephone discussions - you had to come into the store to get the better price) the Yamaha for under the M.A.P. (still remember that the SY85 was M.A.P. $1,485.00 US). Illegal? Nope. But if I got caught advertising below M.A.P., the next shipment was going to be a longer time coming... if at all... never risked it...

I was more likely to make a little better margins on the Yamaha. It made me happier, the owner happier, and made us like Yamaha more than Korg, who had no M.A.P. policy at the time (Yamaha was a trend-setter in this regard in the early 90s).

Ultimately, I'm gonna sell you what you want, and what you need, and what fits your needs and desires more, of course (well not anymore, I am decades away from when I worked in sales), but I'm gonna like the company and the product that makes it easier to actually earn money doing it... that's life...

And yes, this kind of thing helps small dealers out... a LOT...

Please explain to me how there is competition between retailers Hamm, when they all have the same price on the same item?

They have a M.A.P. they have to follow. It's not price-fixing. I tried to explain the difference.

Quit trying to blow smoke up my panties Hamm. 1st off I don't have any on, and secondly it may not be illegal in the sense that they all have the same price tag cost, but it sure as heck is price fixing no matter how you wanna slice it. Now is it a fair price? Thats not what Im talking about. Are they most always the "same" price? Yes, and that is what Im talking about. Manufacturers can suggest we all jump off a cliff, but we don't have to, do we? Where is the competition in that for us Hamm?

hmmm... let me see now... let's imagine a market where there are 2 or 3 or even more products from different companies in the same price class...

there's a word for that...

Oh, yeah... I remember it... "competition"!

:D

Attn: Peter (Or someone in charge).

It might be wise to lock this thread. I can't see anything else posted here being constructive from this point onward. It's just going to be magnet for people who like to argue.

As the person who started this thread. I won't mind at all if you lock it.

I'll leave it up to you.

 

Cheers,

-ScottA

your comments only show your myopia.  Are you suggesting that the amount of attention that has been spent on this topic is for not and this has all just been in everyone's imagination?  

 

It clearly is a problem and if you plan to measure your success as being as limited as everyone else, you will never be an industry leader and certainly have no capacity to innovate.

 

There are EASY fixes to the issue and those fixes would add bundles of flexibility to the platform.

 

If you have nothing NEW to say, just stay planted in your A/B patching and think you did something.... 

I'm not saying that they shouldn't do something like "scenes". In fact, I think they should.

That said, there ARE existing ways to get a dizzying array of tones out of one patch, something like "scenes' (although we know it won't be called that) is hopefully in our future (and will totally level the playing field in this regard), but... I doubt there will ever be true spillover between patches. It requires a different architecture that doesn't take full use of the processing, which people won't pay 1500 bucks for. That's all.

...Pure speculation but why just why do you think most of the products at MF, SW and others are same price exactly Hamm? Coincidence  lol....  :lol:

Uh, no. Manufacturers are allowed to specify a minimum advertised price. That's not price fixing, and is not illegal. When two companies get together and decide to price an equivalent product in such a way as not to undercut one another... that is... and is illegal in USAmerica.

#1 it's a problem

#2 it's a problem

#3 it's a problem

#4 there are some pretty easy ways to address the problem if they really want to listen to their long time, loyal customers.

#5. It's not a problem. It's the same limitation other high-end solutions have.

 You appear to be confusing or conflating someone expressing his opinion with gusto - using maybe a little rhetoric here and there - vigorously arguing for his case - with "trolling". 

 

I see so much of this kind of thing - lazily inserting the word "bigot" "xxxphobe", "troll" or some other emotive word into a sentence - as if somehow accusing a dissenter in a thread online -  accusing the person of such things will  help in the argument. 

 

It doesn't.   Debate online gets vigorous and robust sometimes. Deal with it.  Instead of lazily accusing or straw-manning people who just plain disagree with you of some kind of net-crime - or worse. 

 

Peter is a regular and very helpful contributor to this forum and elsewhere. He helps people out a lot. 

 

Now if many have bad experiences with the HELIX and want to share that here. Fine. 

 

But its just intellectually lazy to accuse a vehement dissenter with "trolling".  As if doing so somehow helps _your_ case. 

 

And no doubt *I* will now be accused of trolling, being "arrogant" ... lowering the "tone"..... 

 

Such is life... 

Thanks so much for stickin' up for me. Scott and I have corresponded privately. It's all good, and we're totally cool... So all's well as ends well.

If Helix is about options, than provide the option to split the DSP use. Allow half the number of Blocks per patch and loose the patch changing delay by dedicating one DSP to maintaining sound through patch changes...

you kind of have that option. 

Make one patch in path A, one patch in path B, and switch between them using a footswitch to switch a "first in the chain" volume pedal from 0 - 100 and vice versa. Zero latency, trails remain... simple... basic...

That said, within one patch, there are different and I think far better ways to get multiple sounds, even out of just one amp block if need be.

I know, you're asking for an option to only use half the processor on a global basis to make it so you can constantly switch between patches with no latency and trails and such... but I suspect that this would end up not being the best solution for people once they really learn how to use the unit. Something like Fractal's scenes makes more sense, so find that on ideascale and vote it up!

Too bad (and moot point) for the car buying customer we can't "just once" get GM, BMW and FORD in the same room for 6 days (or 6 minutes), and say ok Boys, share all your secrets. Who knows, it might fix the acceleration lag.  ;)

yeah... that could happen... and then they could decide together on how to price those options... and all go to jail...