PeterHamm

You could say that "their" boxes are missing features, but Im glad you didn't. Why? There are many things the Helix has that are great, and many it doesn't compared to the Axe FX II XL, or the KPA. Ive owned both so this is not speculation. I hope that one day Helix will have calibrated foot controller menus with percentages on when it will engage, and sloped vector settings for how the controller responds from heel down to toe down, heel off wah and effects settings with fast, medium, or slow speeds selectable from the menu, Workbench support, an editor worth its salt, multiple cab combining support, thumb-drive memory backup, and the list go's on and on... Of course one boxes features is another's poison... So as always YMMV.  As far as releasing it too early, you met your obligations and its a very nice sounding unit with lots of promise. I bought one because of this. But, Right now it would make better argument to brag about what Helix will become one day, rather than what the competition doesn't currently have on the newly released Helix, because I believe there are things it needs that the others already have. Thanks...

You forgot to mention the trilateral commission...

IMHO you have to keep upgrade Helix avoiding to be neither flesh nor fowl, neither a real prominent professional users product nor a guitar enthusiasts product.

I mean too much expensive for normal guitar ethusiasts or semi-pro but not enough cool for great pro guitarists.

What is your target?

I am a "pro". I get paid to make music and it helps me do that better by far than any other product in this category I have ever used. They made it for me. I was their target.

But to be fair, no one asked for cap-sense switches, four effects loops, or a hundred other Helix features, so IdeaScale doesn't have a monopoly on our development roadmap. There are a handful of left-field "pet features" I've been fighting tooth and nail to get in (that'll hopefully illicit a "whoa"), but it's all about balance.

Kinda like Henry Ford's quip that if he gave the people what they asked for, he would have bred faster stronger horses.

Since we're talking about apples and oranges, AX8 is single cab only, and a lot uglier. Less inputs. Lots more effects and amps, and similar price point, but very different beast to the Helix. And it has an editor. :)

The AX8 looks AMAZING to me. If I didn't do the 2-voice thing virtually all the time (AX8 is only one chain) it'd really be on my radar. As it is, one of the other guitar players at my church here who goes direct and is a gearhead is about to upgrade from HD 500 to AX8. Between his AX8 (once he gets to the top of the list, which at this point might be 2020) and me on Helix... I think they'll play nicely together tone-wise.

What a time to be doing this!

Not sure how I am again comparing apples to oranges AGAIN when that is the first time I've commented here.   WRONG.

 

We are not comparing Axefx to HD500, we are comparing HD500 update frequency vs Fractal and how it will relate to Helix.  WRONG.

 

Line 6 did lose market share to Fractal and Kemper, and the Helix is designed to recover it.  This has already been stated, look it up if you want.  WRONG.

 

Whether the AX8 was known or not when the Helix was in development is irrelevant because we all knew about neither.  From the public eye we knew about AX8 before Helix.  WRONG.

 

Your last comment was just your opinion - but again you missed the point.  If they add new models and effects it doesn't change the ones you are using so - yep WRONG again.

 

What was your point again?

 

Mine is this - the Helix is cool but way behind Fractal with number of amps, effects, and cabs.  Setting a goal to model and release so many amps and so forth per month isn't an unreasonable goal.  If I was @ Line 6, that's exactly what I'd be doing.

Gee, put words in people's mouths much?

Only going to comment on my last comment. You say if they add new models and effects it doesn't change the ones you are using. Are there any Axe FX users in here who can share their experiences of firmware updates changing the sound of their patches and having to go and adjust them after? I've heard about that plenty. And yes, it happens with L6, too.

Look, Axe FX II and AX8 both great great products. For some people, they will be better choices. For others, including me, they aren't for one reason or another.

Compare that with how many firmware updates the Axe-Fx got over 5 years and you'll have your answer.  (Hint - yes).

No offense, but you are, again, comparing apples to oranges.

An Axe FX plus foot controller costs how many TIMES more than an HD 500? The first is made for a pro market, and the latter is made for the consumer mass-market.

You also talk about Line6 losing market share to Fractal? I doubt it. Even now. They are two completely different market segments. 

And the only product in Helix's market space is the AX8, which wasn't even a known entity when Helix was in development (the converse might be true as well).

In short no I don't think the 12 updates over 5 years model is acceptable.  I expect updates - meaningful ones - every month.  At the latest - bi monthly.

God, I HOPE not... the last thing I need from a product I use in my work is that much of a moving target. I need stability, and only need updates when they are significant. In fact, to be honest, I don't need updates at all at this point. It makes the sounds I need. I'll enjoy and welcome the updates... but NEED...? Nope.

I think i may role back the my OS to 10.10

I couldn't guarantee that will help, but I've worked a little with Helix on a 10.10 mac and it worked okay.

And here is how I use them for two-voice guitar. Just ignore the electric part of this if you wish.

https://pietrosquared.wordpress.com/helix-2-voice-guitar/

There are a BUNCH of IRs (all I ever need, myself) for acoustic guitar at these two links.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1XgNa5vH3j1ZkVoTFJLQ241WTg/view

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f2qdh9jtcl6s5cv/AACRlEt-UVeLAhuvV4YwMY7Wa?dl=0

I think they are all derived from Aura. I've been toying with the idea of capturing them from Mama Bear, but haven' had time.

easier, imho, to just use one of the FX sends and use a D.I. box. It'll sound just as good.

What OS are you folks using, because there are some issues with El Capitan that, iirc, will only be solved when Apple releases the coming fix for that boondoggle of an OS upgrade.

I can say that I'm having nothing but success with Helix as an audio interface with OS X 10.9.5 and Logic Pro X, latest version.

HD 500 exceeded my expectations for new models and firmware updates. Compare to the products that were out at the same time at the same price point from Boss and Digitech, for example.

It would surprise if Helix development experienced a slowdown if the next "killer product" from Line 6 goes into development... because... they have repeatedly stated that it's selling beyond their wildest dreams, and it exists in a product space (competing with devices from Fractal and also, to a certain extent, Kemper) where that is the default mode.

Again, comparing a 1500-dollar pro product to a 500-dollar consumer product is probably unfair.

HD 500 does not feel like it was designed with radical development in mind. It just wasn't. Helix is in a different class and comparing the two doesn't make much sense.

A 500-dollar product that is sold for the mass market and a 1500-dollar unit that is sold for the professional market should have wildly different future development expectations.

I don't buy this as a valid excuse for justifying the implied stagnation this idea holds. Especially for something as technologically advanced as Helix, and the fact that Helix has intentional designs in place for it's further advancement.

I think you misunderstood me. I'll be more clear.

Buy Helix if it solves your problems or helps you make better tone, and therefore helps you make more awesome music. yes. And buy it knowing that it will have more good stuff next year than it does this year. And yes, buy it knowing that it's likely they might even add cool stuff 5 years later (like they did with HD 500).

Don't buy a Helix if you MUST have a model of a Whizbang2000XL in there. Because they might not model a Whizbang2000XL and nobody who knows if they are going to model a Whizbang2000XL can tell you a thing about if and when it will happen.

So you will set yourself up for disappointment. The earliest you'll find out, officially, that a new model is coming in update 1.0x.x is a day or two before. (And I got news for you, much (most?) of the time, the beta testers don't know until just a day or so before you do, and we aren't talkin', because we have an NDA in place which we have no desire to violate.)

So... if you're convinced that your new "GoodTone Mark II" is going to be awesome for you once they add a "BleedingEars XT" model to it in June... you might be disappointed.

If you buy something like Helix (or Axe for that matter) because you know good new stuff is coming that you might enjoy... good reason. Both companies have track records for expanding their products very nicely. But if you buy something that doesn't do something that you need now in the hopes that someday it will... I wouldn't.

I know Line 6 employees can't say much to us here, but I'm sure that it was planned all along for the product to be

expanded over time...

They have been very open that yes, indeed, they plan for the product to be expanded over time, as it already has been with the amazing addition of the Matchless model and the Timmy pedal (and others).

But...

...I would caution this, based on playing this game for a long time. Don't buy any piece of gear... ever... for what it might do some day. Buy it for what it will do now. Today.

The other problem with the IPB-10 is that it used very very old technology in a new format (the fact that you couldn't change one single thing in the patches without your iPad present didn't help. There was no difference in sound between it and the RP1000. It was a perfect storm of bad design decisions imho.

That said, everybody has cycles, Digitech has been very forward thinking at times, and I wonder what they might have up their sleeve about now.

It doesn't matter anyway. Helix is designed for professionals, and studios record with Macs and PCs, not iPads. At least in 2016.

Yup. Same reason such features aren't on Kemper or Axe.

Another way to approach it if the current Bluetooth protocol is too slow would be the approach the Digitech IPB-10 took which is to provide an actual hard-wired iOS connection for an iPad.

That really worked out well for them...  :wacko:

There are certain word combinations that should never be used together.

"Great Bagpipe Patch" is one.

"Banjo Player's Ferrari" is another.

"Military Intelligence"

"Drummer Who Keeps Perfect Time."

"You May Have My Extra Bacon"... that one is just never uttered by sane people.

...Oddly, I don't have a hard time at all selecting amps. Most of them end up having very similar tonal characteristics for me. So it's easy. Cabs/mics are different. They affect the sound more than an amp and sometimes my poor little brain quickly becomes overloaded and confused, basically shutting down the decision making process.

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT!

It will make more difference switching cabinets than it will make switching amps in many cases, and it will often make WAY more difference switching mikes than switching cabs.

Hint. If your sound is harsh, just skip all the rest and go right to the ribbon mikes, which are fast becoming all I use. The way they smooth out the high end is glorious.

Up to a certain degree...

For example, take a look at this discussion:

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/18839-path-ab/

I know, but I respectfully disagree with those who think there are any difficulties that can't be solved by the manual and experimentation. There is SO much flexibility in Helix that I have found TOTALLY new and better ways to set up my patches in just the past few days that are blowing me away. None of that can be learned by ANYTHING other than experimentation. A longer manual won't help and will probably hinder, and an external editor will make no difference either way.

The only drawback of using dual cabs is now you have to sift through all the different mic-mic distance-cab combinations. What if the one I haven't tried yet is better than the one I just tried? And so forth and so on. On the other hand, maybe that's easier than trying to sift through thousands of IRs.

 

Or you could easily combine an IR and cab block. I do that sometimes with good results.

I think you touch on the whole problem with choices in general. And when you have multiple choices that multiply the possibilities, you can run into analysis paralysis.

I focused on cabs I like, and guess what... The sound that is best for me is always, always, always... the SAME TWO CABINETS.

I do find that I like to vary the mike and distance and early reflections a bit, but if I have the 4 x 10 bassman cab on one side and the Dr. Z cab on the other (same favorite cabs from HD 500)... I'm done.

So... when you go through the cabs and find one you really like... just stop. You're done.

Of course, that's easier said than done.

Same thing with amps.

I am only using about 4 or 5 amps in Helix, really. (Matchless Ch1 or Jump, Bassman, /13, Z, and, just recently, the Shiva - which cleans up okay and gains up to lower gain really nice, too). I like the other Fender models and some of the lower gain stuff, too, but I could get by with just those.

On a lark, I spent about an hour one day going through all the amps via the factory presets for the first time since I got this 2 and a half months ago. (I also notice, btw, that some models I adored in HD 500 do nothing for me here, they are that different. Most notably, the Orange. My favorite amp in HD 500 for humbuckers, but I can't get anything I like out of it in Helix, which is cool, since the /13 and Matchless are so amazing... In fact, if this box only had the Matchless models... I might be okay!)

Anyway, that exercise was a big waste of time you could argue... I already know what I like, so I stick with it.

Not everyone does, I realize that, but if you DO know what you gravitate towards, stick with it if you actually have to make music for a real audience. You'll all be happy.

fwiw, if you didn't know, the cabs in Helix ARE IRs. It's just that they now allow you to bring in third party IRs if you want.

I will say this. I've messed around with a few free ones, and I like the Helix IRs just fine. Especially when you use dual cabs.

In other words, imho, dual cabs with built-in cab IRs is better than single with 3rd party.

Do not assume just because someone else HAS to spend money on additional IRs to get what they want out of Helix that you will. I don't.

And the good news is that the interface on Helix is so easy to figure out that when I misplaced my manual in late December, just a few days after receiving Helix, I didn't find it again until a few days ago because I didn't bother looking for it.

The interface is ridiculously easy.

The issue is that right now you have path 1B in parallel with 1A and 2A, when I gather that you actually want to have it in a serial configuration. That's why the amp and cab sounds different when you move it before the split. In the position you have it now, it's actually in parallel with an "un-amped" tone. To get one long serial path, move the merge block from path 1A down to path 1B. For the output block on 1A, just pick an output you're not using - USB 3/4 might be a good one. Then set the output block of 1B so it feeds into 2A. That will give a long serial path going 1A > 1B > 2A.

OOH that's clever.

Obviously, something in the chain is causing it. I'm a little more concerned that your patch might be allowing some non-amped guitar through the chain in parallel (depending on how you are using that split). THAT may be causing what you're hearing, too, as a bunch of the dry guitar signal is getting through the way you have it now, potentially, and NOT getting through if you have the amp before the split.

For hi/low cut EQ, I am currently just using what's available in the cab block. it works well for me.

Also, if you aren't truly splitting FX, there's no reason for a split. Easier to just have path 1A go to path 1B and continue on.

And... on top of that, running out the 1/4" to a DI box gives you XLR to whatever you have to connect to, sums the signal to mono, and, frankly, sounds better.