bjnette

Glad you asked me to define it as that in itself can help make some measurements.

I would be happy with any reference, we got the guitar input;  we have the AD and the DA.(more about this later)

The definition would be the ratio of FS signal level to the noise floor means level. This would answer my question.

We can guess some areas, we have two paths which can be combined at the input stage;

If we know what the ADDA converters are we can know the dbFS. We know there is a feed off the AD thru for the S/Pdif out.

I am guessing 20bit converters chips were used maybe on the earlier units like the X3 and the HDs given the when the unit was released it is possible they were 24bit. Info on these would reveal much for eg I guess there could be an internal floating point at 32bit and this answers the lack of digital clipping heard when cranking the controls but may be evident when the DAC takes place.

It just may be that the Helix uses 64bit floating point in it's ADDA as well, as this type of CPU processing math =  data = resolution to re model the amps and components etc to give increased digital definition.

Curious I am.

If I knew what to do I'd change the ADC and DAC chips for better ones in my unit. Or tap in an existing ADDA converter if I had the specs.

I know just get a Helix. LOL

I wonder if this has been published,

or has anyone worked it out?

Glad you got it sorted. Makes me want to install a dual output in one of my instruments.

On the other note, you could try the usual polarity toggles on the HD and then the impedance settings;

Auto is supposed to sense what is needed but I doubt it by the wild variances different guitars and even different p'ups 

give. 

Gibs being h'buckers and slightly higher output pups and  it's impedience gives the Princeton a desired match. 

The MIM might just need to go into a pedal first.

I found I needed to shield all my guitars as the HD being basically a computer/amp gave off electromagnetic waves that the p'ups picked up this stray magnetism. Unavoidable when standing over the HD and using it or closer editing it like being too close to your amp.

 Better to select the high gain amp that sounds right to me has a slight tonal quality improvement.

For tonal dynamics from clean or crunch to a lead tone then my fav is still the screamer but I s'times find even overdrive or classic just sits right. 

Of course tube drive is always good too.

For recording different guitar parts it is good to go for tones with very differing tonal patches to aid good separation in the mix otherwise you have to go for very obvious sub octave or pitch shifting to add a tone that cuts thru or severe EQing which can sound unnatural.

I mention it as tonal definition is lost no matter what the distortion engaged is, seems to be the profiling resolution in the HDs.

Less is more sometimes

Easy to overlook, especially when used to it set on one machine and then a new machine not yet set; hope it is variax setting.

cause i wouldn't be able to use both pick-ups since the ES345 is wired for stereo output.

Understood. Put it on the Aux or Mic in or your own DI / Pre to FX return.

The p'up signal needs to be pre amplified and both Mic pre and Aux in can but the Aux in will probably be a better impedance match but try each out.

Manual Quote

"21. Aux In - This mono, unbalanced 1/4" input can be used for a second guitar or just about any other instrument. Visit the System & I/O edit pages for Aux In routing options."

Bring it in on one of the FX returns as it is not mic level but you could try it but not sure why not just split the guitar into two amp blocks

To me if you want a stereo spread I'd do it simply by two L and R delays and two L and R EQs.

Not sure If you can do this with the Helix but try to pan the lower frequencies mono preferably without delay and the higher frequencies delays hard left and hard right. A multiband makes this easy in your DAW but you should be able to make splits.

The EQs can be quite drastic but generally different frequencies are pronounced one side while  cut the opposite side but are generally high passed above the low mids or higher if you have a good center tone going thru by having another split  as your main tone slightly dampening the highs.

If you really want to extend the stereo effect to sound beyond the speakers some of this left right material can get pitch shifted ever so slightly as a snapshot occasionally to the opposite side. Too much will sound like ping pong or chorusing

Add a little room verb. Problem solved.

Or add a room mic that is phase proof. Unlikely until all Amps are re profiled.

The Kemper Pure tone thing works for sure but I think attenuating Global EQ high shelf to emulate an amp would help.

Visually a FFT display of many of the Amps and cabs used in the Helix is probably available after a search.

Then set up a FFT display of Helix with same Amp model and cab and use global EQ to match the wave form

Or know that most amp and cab dont produce much over 15khz some even lower and attenuate global EQ around there.

Also most Amps without a tone control are a bell curve output centering in the mid mids.

At first I thought that a delay at about 20msecs gives a roomish sense to it right after the amp.

There is also the Room reverb which would also help give a room feel.

But then I understood what you were describing, 

When Line 6 model an Amp they should include a room mic and then the user has the option to add the room mic and blend as desired.

You should put it up on the Idea Scale.

Bundles certainly are a useless, bungled mess. I think it's a joke by the Line 6 developers so that Beavis can find TP for his bungle hole.

LOL

You choose send "selected" not "set list" or "bungle".

You could connect via usb to PC and check the level in the DAW of your choice.

Actually you can get a free standalone  VU meter here http://www.vuplayer.com/other.php. 

Being a VU it measures RMS level and not a digital peak meter. 

Peak is about +2.

Dont know of any standalone peak meter. Blue cat has a freee plugin for your DAW and a purchasable one with spectral analyzer.

It could also be the switch getting some debris in there from the rough use and compressed air will do the trick. The unit is easy to open up and you can check the hot glue connections too.

There are links to be searched for replacement switches if needed.

Bought my HD 500 Sept 2012 and it had already been out 18 months.

I am happy with it and love it still. I been meaning to restudy the manuals and

get some more out of it. All my Amps and cabs are mostly unused now!

It is incredibly deep. 30 plus pre/amps,  The Amps are very good. The 100 FX are  mostly okay. 

Some detract from the quality of many of the amp models imo while some FX sound great really cranked up

but mostly need to be fairly low in the mix.

The price used is much the same as before the Helix. 

There probably are bargains to be had still as Helix owners cash theirs in.

If you don't think there would be any phase issue playing the same dual amps live into a stereo PA unless mono'd you'd be mistaken.

The low end tends to be omnidirectional and if you understand how sound spreading throughout a room works.

As sounds vibrate out in all directions from a single source reflects from walls and objects and these interact with the original and cause null points;diminished vibration. Reinforced nodes; embellished vibration where the combination increases amplitude. These nulls and nodes are known as ratification

Thus there is Line Array PA systems that use speaker arrays delayed at increased times as the Arrays are placed deeper in an auditorium, theater or stadium.  Now all seats get a good sound. 

In recording it is common to double track and it is seen as desirable adding a sense of chorus to the track when panned hard left or right. The additional track is not played exactly the same way and is by definition a chorus.  But when mono'd sounds much thinner than one only track when the same tone is used. 

This is really what comb filtering is. It is two different sources with similar tonal qualities nulling and reinforcing certain frequencies when combined and can be desirable when it tends to cancel the low end and tightens certain desirable frequencies. It is also shifting about depending upon where/what notes are played.

It use to be common practice for guitars playing live to double parts on different positions on the neck using different pick ups and amp tonal settings including very different amps to have guitars that enhance the overall sound and minimize wiping each other out. This is true for all types of instruments.

This is a real pre production territory as even placing one of the amps off the ground can preserve two guitar tones.

This is very well known in orchestral music; where the instruments are placed is not just out of tradition.

If you take away anything from this it would be;

Use very differing amp models when adding a dual amp. 

Delay shifts between amps will be more problematic when they are of similar tonality. Tweak the frequency response of each amp so when they combine it is an enhancement. Use less distortion and go for dryer tonality in both amps but more so in one of them so too for double tracking.

Use EQ to roll off low end and get more headroom or your tracks could sound thinner not be heard yet still push your VU meters.

Yes, I love the subject of sound cancellation and phasing.

In the real world two amps would cancel each other out but

in the digital world no air so doesnt happen.

Now if we were to set the two outputs toward each other quite some distance apart

instead of the usual triangular shape set for listening and we were midway with our head 

and ears/

There is a good chance there could be alot of phasing 

Obviously the OP hasn't layed out any $. 

He is making ASSumptions based on looking at one in a store

but not able to fully test it for himself.

There is no way in hell he is complaining after purchasing it , No way!

It is merly an enquiry statement looking for allies probably.

I don't own a Helix yet nor have I demoed one but I am certain it is excellent 

based on reviews demos and user feedback. a no brainer.

Grunges nicely into a surging Blues Rock!

Tones are convincing!

You guys are both right! 

Realistically the HDs might be continued as a line from Line 6 once Helix sales taper off and a new bungle of the Helix to HD Amps put up for sale for us poorer musicians to further the line. I personally cannot justify the cost yet as am not gigging anytime soon to get a Helix but certainly would love one.

As an aside I have been looking to see if it is possible to upgrade the Shark Chip in one of my HD500s. Need an electrical IT geek as I'd like to upgrade the ADDA converter chip as well! (might be cheaper to just buy the HX LOL)

WHOOAH! Awesome list of fixes and features

I have only ever noticed it when I have forgotten to send patch to HD but I do usually edit on the unit itself

The DA conversion chip is probably the same for all, just with isolated taps for the line and balanced outs with another tap to a small amp circuit to drive headphones and a thru tap for s/pdif.