Schmalle

Preamps in the Helix are quiet: they are turned down by 24dB because some of them are so loud in the real world that they would clip during the output DA conversion.

I'd do the following:

Set input, send/return and output level to Inst, max out the VOLUME knob. This way there should be unity gain, meaning a vanilla 4CM patch should have the same level as the pure (no 4CM) amp has. Verify that this is the case.

Set the patch's output level to +20dB, set the fx loop block's return level to -20dB. Now the preamps are usable without struggling with their level.

Hope that helps!

Changing Global Settings -> Ins/Outs -> Output Level from Inst to Line results in a significant boost. That might be the cause.

On 4/21/2024 at 4:15 PM, RJKole said:

@Schmalle

I appreciate the time you put into uploading a clip. The clip made me more convinced that there is no or negligible audible difference between said firmware versions.
I may not should have done this. Each human has a different hearing, ask 100 people for 200 different answers. I mainly was pointing to the upper heights that come out too sharp in my ears . Thats why i (homorous) mentioned Behringer ;-)

I got that. I couldn't hear a clear difference in high end response - some notes on the old fw seemed sharper, some on the new - I didn't hear evidence that would hint at a difference in fw specific sound. If you'd have used the exact same test input for both fw versions the comparison would have much higher significance because that would exclude the human error i.e. hitting notes the exact same way.

I'm totally open to accept the claim that fw versions sound different btw - I'm just not convinced.

When you compare stuff make sure to exclude your bias. When you present evidence that isn't convincing to others your own confidence should go down. Producing good A/B comparisons isn't trivial or easy. As a thought experiment: How would you design a test that would be compelling to a skeptical guy like me?

On 4/22/2024 at 10:48 AM, vincentm77 said:

[...] Is it possible to assign to any switch of my midi controller any snapshot (of any preset) set up on my HX Stomp ?

The MIDI controller must be able to send a series of PC and CC messages with one button.

E.g. snapshot 2 on preset 02A would need two MIDI messages: PC:003 followed by CC69:01. You don't need to come up with these values since they are displayed in the preset list menu on the device.

The left input is tamed by 3dB when you use the right input. If you use the right input first then there is no change when you also plug a second instrument into the left input. 

Here is how you can test for defective MAIN INs on the unit:

Plug into input R and listen if it is still dull (add a +3dB gain block if you want to match the level of input L). If it is not dull but input L is then it's defective.

If both are dull:

Set Global Settings -> INs/OUTs -> Send/Return to Inst and Return Type to Return.

Set the input block to Input Return L/R by turning the lower knob clockwise one step.

Plug your guitar into Return L and test for dullness. If it is not dull but Inputs L/R are (and Input Z is at 1MOhm) both Inputs are defective.

Report back.

On 4/21/2024 at 4:57 PM, Carlos_Danger said:

It is just missing high harmonic content. 

Less gain -> less overdrive -> less harmonic content.

Compare the input levels of both interfaces. You'll probably find that you use a good amount more on the Xsonic.

Use INST level for the input (Global Settings).

Tip: you can also put a gain block first in the path of the HX Stomp patch. 

Maybe a factory restore (globals, presets, IRs) helps? - Hold FS 2+3 while powering up the HX Stomp. Do a backup before.

Also you can open a support ticket and see how they can help you.

No - the Stomp and the Helix sound the same. Both are flat response with no inherent sound to it - certainly nothing that one would recognize as dull.

You could record dry guitar with both interfaces and compare. Are the levels the same? Is one duller than the other?

You could play music using both as USB interfaces and compare.

Then you should know whether it's the Stomps input or the output that contributes to dullness.

What cable do you use for HX -> Headrush?

I'd try the HX Stomp as interface for Native (replacing the Xsonic): USB IN 5/6 -> Native ->USB OUT 1/2 and listen if that sounds dull as well.

Make sure the Input Z in the input block is set to 1MOhm or Auto.

On 4/20/2024 at 9:31 PM, Carlos_Danger said:

Global EQ is off

To make sure: navigate to the Global EQ, press ACTION and then the Left Knob to Reset EQ.

Check the Global EQ.

On 4/19/2024 at 11:44 PM, RJKole said:

Judge yourself. Just a few tones, 3 Samples , each 292 followed by 370. 1. Factory 1-001 , 2. Some Dire Straits patch from somewhere , 3. Factory 1-072.
In my ears 370 sounds much flatter, crackling and shrill,  290 richer, warmer and more natural.  https:/rjkole.com/p_temp/Helix.wav
All samples have been normalized.

 

Ok, 370 to 371, my mistake, but may be interesting how things change sometimes.

 

I appreciate the time you put into uploading a clip. The clip made me more convinced that there is no or negligible audible difference between said firmware versions.

On 4/19/2024 at 10:21 PM, medicinewolf99 said:

SO now i have it on a blank preset and still not getting my "true amp sound" its like the distortion isn't coming through and none of my amp controls affect the sound at all. So then I hit the bypass on the line 6 effects unit and still same thing...no true amp sound...and amp controls don't affect the sound including volume and gain....So it must be the way I have everything routed,,,Doesn't seem like how I have everything in HX edit is the issue

 

I have guitar>Stomp input(L Mono)

Stomp L Mono output > Amp return

stomp L mono return> Amp Send

Stomp Stereo Send > AMP input

 

You need an FX Loop L block in the path for it to work.

Also for unity gain make sure Global Settings -> Ins/Outs -> Input Level, Output Level and Send/Return L are set to Inst. Also crank the VOLUME knob.

On 4/19/2024 at 9:32 PM, RJKole said:

[...] The recodings clearly showed a difference. [...]

Mind sharing some comparison clips to convince a doubting spirit like me?

Just use a Send L block in front of the cab block. This way the signal for the power amp / physical cab is on the Send Out.

Besides the jumpered channels in the HX I'd recommend to try the Divided Duo - use Drive1 as a bright channel gain and Drive2 is a normal channel gain. A trick is to set Drive2 to 0, then choose the amount of gain you want with Drive1 and finally add Drive2 back to add body/fullness - pretty cool.

Also the Elmsley has the feel of an already dialed in jumpered amp.

If you get less "digital clipping" with less CH Vol then the amp model is not the problem.

Sort of. But not really. There are multiple ways to jumper amps which changes the input impedance in different ways. Using jumpered inputs on an amp means the guitar signal is split and runs in parallel through parts of the amp. Often that's two preamps and both signals are mixed before the power amp. There are some interactions - negligible or audible - that aren't there when you use two parallel amps. 

I don't understand the question really but this might be of use:

https://helixhelp.com/release-notes/helix/3.15.0#global-midi-control-of-knobs-1-6-pagepage-and-preset-save

If you set Global Settings->MIDI/Tempo->MIDI Base Ch to 1 (or whatever the Strymon is set to) and Global Settings->MIDI/Tempo->MIDI PC Tx to MIDI or MIDI+USB the HX sends PC messages when you change presets.

Use this setting, connect both devices with a MIDI cable and to confirm that the Strymon changes presets with MIDI.

When it does reset Global Settings->MIDI/Tempo->MIDI PC Tx to Off and use Command Center to program the MIDI PC stuff you need.

That's no problem. You can even do this with just two footswitches: one cycles through the snapshots 1->2->3->1... and one that bypasses one ore more blocks and/or changes parameters.

Distinguish between Bypass Assign and Controller Assign and all becomes easy:

Bypass Assign: snapshots control bypass states of blocks by default, but you can disable that per block. And you can additionally control a block's bypass state with MIDI and a footswitch or expression pedal.

Controller Assign: snapshots don't control parameters in blocks by default. But they are one of the mutually exclusive options of controlling a parameter besides MIDI, footswitch or expression pedal. You can controller assign up to 64 parameters in a patch.

The question is actually quite simple and the answer is even more simple: no.

With external MIDI hardware you combine MIDI PC for the preset and CC#69 for snapshot. There is no HX internal equivalent for that AFAIK.

On 4/16/2024 at 3:48 AM, keg1029 said:

Yes, I did experiment with both of these options, however this uses two switches instead of one. I wanted toggle for program changes. 

You can use snapshots for this. Toggle or step through snapshots in Stomp Mode by assigning a snapshot command to a footswitch in Command Center.

There is no unloading presets. You can load presets via MIDI PC messages and switch bypass A, B or A+B via MIDI CC messages. Read the Sunset's manual to find out more.

You can of course create a preset on the Sunset where A and B are bypassed and load that preset to turn the Sunset "off".