Posts posted by redmonda
I've seen this issue and encounter it frequently. It also occurs when copying blocks to blank presets (i.e. copy an amp block, go to the blank preset, past is not an option).
I'm assuming it is an editor bug. It's a bit annoying - I'll have to go back and attempt to copy the block 3-4 times on average before it works....
There was also a poll on TGP about whether users were satisfied or dis-satisfied with the tuner -> the results were overwhelmingly satisfied (it was almost 70% if I recall). I think they've seen the complaints... and see that it represents the minority and don't see a problem. Guess we'll see....
Here are a compressor setting that I use with good effect:
Compressor - Red CompSensitivity: 9Mix: 27%Level: 0dbThe low mix should keep your initial pick attack in check and mostly just add sustain. It's pretty transparent as well.Worth a shot...
oh no..all is good.. :)
The cab models are there to mimic the cab and produce that 412 equivalent tone out of a perfect FRFR monitor (which as we can agree is neither FR not FR).. however that is a cab model issue, nothing to do with mics at all.
So, taking a point source reading from a position of (lets say from an above post ) 5.5ft up and 10ft in front of that speaker in an open space.. a 100% cab model into a theoretically perfect FRFR should and would sound the same.. otherwise the cab model is wrong...no?
Now as FRFR monitors have differing responses, for sure we need to add a couple of EQ blocks.. one to tune/compensate for an individual "FRFR" and also a global final EQ for room acoustics..
and of course there is room effects to consider, hence the open space reference above, but still, at the point of users attempting to create sonically accurate presets, eliminating the mic from the equation can only improve our chances, as well as add to originality...put it this way.. at the most simplest level, the cab is an EQ curve, the mic adds an EQ curve and your FRFR is an EQ curve.. ONE EQ *should* be pretty close (the cab) leaving 2 EQ curves for the user to correct for.. eliminate one and chances go up no?..
The issue is in the implementation. In order to capture the cab info, you need a "flat mic" (to capture what your 'ear' truly hears). You'd also need an anechoic chamber (which is quite difficult to do in practice) to prevent any effect of the room. You also need a sophisticated enough monitor/playback system that can meet the needs. Even then, it is going to 'feel' different depending on how close to the cab you were standing. Should I capture at 5'? 10'? etc.
In theory, they could truly "model" a cab rather than capture an IR, then use this "modeled" cab simulation to generate IR's as the user desires. This would likely be an external application rather than built-in due to the processing required to perform this.
If you acoustically model a cab, speakers, materials, etc and then pick a simulation point (i.e. x,y,z coordinates where your ear is located relative to a reference point in the cab) then you can spit-out simulated IR's. This would have to be a pretty involved tool in and of itself to allow the user to determine their configuration to get the right IR. This would obviously also not account for the room that you are accustomed to listening in.
A mic is a relic of analog sound reinforcement and needs to bite the dust. It is simply not needed in a modern system and the focus needs to be put on systems that allow a FRFR modeling system to sound EXACTLY like the amps do... to you..standing 10ft in front of that 412... and the cab/no mic model is it.
Hopefully this doesn't come across as argumentative, just food for thought:
This is a problem of physics, not a limitation of modelling. An FRFR monitor CANNOT possibly sound like a 412 cabinet. It moves air differently. The cabinet resonates and has all sort of physical effects in how the sound is actually produced that can ONLY be created by using that cab.
Does your 1x12 sound like your 4x12? Would you expect it to? Why would you expect an FRFR monitor (which is really just a different kind of cab/speaker combination) to sound like any other cabinet?
Put 2 "FRFR" monitor brands next to each other - they will sound different. Even though they're both "flat", any physical difference in any speaker combination will affect sound by the nature of how sound is generated.
All that to say, it's not a matter of modelling in my opinion.
I just got the Helix LT. I'm running this through a Marshall 2061x "Handwired" and matching 2x12 cab. this is a simple plexi amp with no bells or whistles just great tone. The problem is I want to hide the amp's characteristics so that I can use Helix's amp models and have them sound like they're intended to. Fender, Vox, etc. What do I need to do to hide the natural Marshall tone so the effects tone can shine through?
I'm not familiar with that amp - does it have an effects loop?
Your best bet is to bypass the physical amps pre-amp section (if possible) and run direct into the power-amp (the FX return, if your amp has one).
On your helix, you'd likely want to disable the cab block and use only an Amp model (and some even prefer only the pre-amp model, you'll have to try for yourself).
All that said.... it's being amplified by your 2x12 cab and will always take on some flavor of that 2x12... You'll be able to pull off a "cab in the room" type sound, but won't have quite as much flexibility as an FRFR monitor solution (which can't really nail the "cab in the room" feeling, there is always a trade-off...)
In your comment "Note 1: Real amps with Volume means Gain in Helix. Volume in Helix is like a mixer to compensate final modeled output level (obviusly it doesn't exist in any of the real amps)."
Do you mean:
1. In "Real Amps" with Volume or Gain knobs, the knob is the same as "Drive" control in Helix amps? I have not seen a "Gain" control on any of the Helix amp controls. Is this knob typically a preamp volume knob or power amp volume knob in the real amps? Where does the "Drive" control in Helix amps sit (preamp or power amp)?
and did you mean:
2. The Volume control in Helix amp controls does not affect tone of the amp. It is basically another gain stage after the power amp to help balance amp volume between patches.?
Did I get this right, and can you please add a little more description?
These are just the notes I copied from the 1st post in the thread. I'm unclear as well, though I believe the answer is 1. (i.e. the "drive" knob on helix is like the "volume" knob on a non-master-volume type amp). My understanding is that typically drive is pre-amp gain and master is power-amp gain.
Got the Helix a couple of weeks ago to explore an alternative to my normal valve amp/cab and pedal board. I'm already confused and losing enthusiasm to keep going. I'm impatient and want to just crack on using it live and so am yet to be convinced such a complex peice of kit is right for me
At this stage I don't want to set up presets for each song on our set list but rather set up maybe 3 or 4 amp/cab presets to cover clean/break up/crunch and then be able to switch various individual effects boosts, overdrives, modulation etc in and out as I need them. In other words use it like a pedal board but using the amp/cab settings in the Helix.
Can't seem to find anything yet in Line 6 manual that covers this
I know the way I want to use it is probably missing out on a lot of the features - but one step at a time.
Any (simple) advice?
Sounds like you got confused by the manual... or maybe just misunderstood terminolgoy?
Check out he following:
Manual page 11 (Stomp Footsiwtch mode)
This does exactly what you want.
You can assign any block (delay, distortion, etc) to any footswitch. See the manual "Bypass Assign" section on page 40.
You can also set up snapshots where various effects are on/off in any combination or change parameters of effects etc with a single button press. i.e. press one button to turn on delay block, turn on tube screamer, turn off pitch block and change amp gain to 10. You can still switch back to stomp mode and individually control pedals. There is a lot of info in the "snapshots" section on page 34.
I think that there is still residual stepping there in 5:58 on the O-scope thus the noise seen, covered up and smoothed by some kind of internal dithering. Yea I know I'm stubborn (but not stupid) and so its clear what the guy shows. But, that's the only explanation for the noise I see on the O-scope @ 5:58 (versus 2:22) in the video. So, once again if that's not it, what is it then?
I'm looking at the video... and I just don't see the noise that you do. I see some fuzziness in the scope, but I believe this can be accounted by the analog screen having limited resolution. Put this on a high-res digital scope, and you'd get a cleaner display.
Edit: Forgot to mention, EE here with plenty of experience with modern and vintage scopes. We have a sweet all-tube scope at my work from the 1940's!
Over on TGP Modeling forum, the Atomic CLR is one of the most highly regarded FRFR monitors. Pricey, but if you're looking for the best, that's probably your ticket.
Regarding how much better it will sound compared to your current setup... that's hard to say.
All of the amp descriptions from this thread have been added to http://helixhelp.com.
After work, I'll get started on migrating all of the effects as well. There's a lot of info here so it'll take a bit of time but hopefully it'll be done by the weekend.
Thanks for all your hard work!
That said, you may want to include some of the background info from comment 1:
-Invented control starting point for neutral settings (setting to simulate the real stuff, without those invented parameters). But you can play with this values, it's up to you (no limits):
Presence for No Presence amps should be zero (all the way counterclockwise). Exception Jazz Rivet (P: 50%).
Eq bonus controls to noon (50%) for No Mid, No Bass, No Treble amps.
Master parameter for no master amps to 100%.
Note 1: Real amps with Volume means Gain in Helix. Volume in Helix is like a mixer to compensate final modeled output level (obviusly it doesn't exist in any of the real amps).
Note 2 : To attenuate "Crossover Distorsion", the best parameter in Helix is "Bias", increase it from 6 to 8 as general rule just in case you need to mitigate it.
Note 3: The default Line6 amp settings parametrs for Helix, when you open a modeled amp, are also a good starting point, normally they are close or exactly in concordance with this. Tip : double click in the parameter to come back to the default one.
Note 4: For Pre Amps models in Helx, some power amp related parametrs (i.e presence in general ; or cut tone with vox amp )are not present, but they modeled also Master and Sag with PreAmps.
All amps are modeled on the Input 1 (High). If you want simulate Input 2 (low), then use a gain block to take 6dB off the signal, and change the input impedance to something lower; somewhere between 68k and 150k.
I also created a spreadsheet for this. This version has combo boxes so that you can select settings and will flag settings that are different from the default settings. This simplifies re-applying the settings after an upgrade.
FYI, I've copied this to a Google Docs Spreadsheet for those interested as well.
Some of the conditional formatting works a little funky (i.e. if you change the BPM to 1.0, for some reason it won't color proplery, but ANY other value (besides 120 or 1) seems to color properly when there's a difference... Odd.
Feel free to make a copy for yourself:
Thanks. Still odd about the line6 download link.
I tried the latest 3 versions. I was trying for the Pod HD500 links, but also tried the Pod HD links and have the same problem.
Tried on 3 browsers on 2 computers which are on different networks (one at work, one at home). After I click "agree" on the user liscence, it goes the screen indicating that it is downloading with the "if downloading doesn't begin, click here" message. That screen pops up for ~1 sec then it goes right to the page I listed above with an error.
Just noticed that the link to download POD HD Edit is broken.
After clicking through the license agreement, it goes to the following page:
But the page shows up as unavailable. I've tried this with both Chrome and IE.
Thanks for the reply. The tube delay example seems to be my dilemma. Many of the paches I've downloaded are running FX after the amp and ARE indeed affected (outside Fletcher-Munson perception) when I adjust the amp volume. So I'm looking for a way to adjust and save the volume after all fx without resorting to adding a volume pedal at the end of each signal chain as the last block. There must be an easier way to do it.
I tried adjusting patches via the know labelled MASTER on the floor unit itself and subsequently saving the patch but quickly found out that is the GOBAL master output volume for the unit.
I see what you are trying to do - unfortunately, there isn't really a good way of doing it outside of adding another effect. Volume pedal would be the obvious one, otherwise you could also use an EQ or anything that has a drive/output control. As you learned, the "master" knob on the unit is the overal global volume level of the unit itself and applies to every patch based on the current physical setting.
One last thought - are you running a stereo patch? If not, you can try moving the mixer to the very end (i.e. move all of the other effects in front of the mixer) and then you can adjust the mixer levels on each patch.
Personally, I simply modify the "volume" parameter for each amp as this does not color the sound (outside of normal Fletcher-Munson perception changes other others have mentioned). The only effects I run after the amp are delay/reverb, so the amp volume doesn't really modify the characteristics of those effects anyway (unless you're running a tube delay, in which case the drive may be modified by the amount of signal hitting it...)
For more information, see Meambobo's guide regarding this topic here:
If you haven't seen it before, that guide has a LOT of information.
By default, it continues to select the default cab and mic when you pick an amp (pre or not). You can change the cab selection to "no cab" and it will get rid of the mic as well.
There is a "toe switch" built into the expression pedal (if you push the pedal all the way up and then keep pushing down, it will toggle between EXP1 and EXP2). There are little LED's just to the left of the pedal (and just to the right of the looper button) that show which EXP is active. When it toggles, you know you've hit the button.
You can assign the Wah to toggle with the toe switch (it may set that by default). I don't recall off-hand how to do that, but I'm pretty sure they tell you how to do it in the manual.
How do i delete the second amp if i don't like it?
On the "B" amp, if you scroll back to the start of the list there is a "no amp" option. This will remove the model. You can also just move the "a" amp (in the top of the split) over to the left of the split and it should get rid of the 2nd amp.
OH! I was expecting to see more blocks added under the controller area. I'll try this out thanks guys!
One other thing to be careful of - if you modify the settings via HD Edit, it can be difficult to test the EXP settings because if you move the pedal, it will de-select the controller in HD Edit. I actually prefer to modify the EXP parameters on the actual HD500 itself (double click on the "down" button when the desired FX is selected and you can edit the controllers there with the various knobs under the screen). In this case you can move the pedal up and down to test the values but it will keep the controller edit settings on the HD500 device screen. Plus, if you change the values at the max/min pedal position, it will update them in real time so you can hear them yourself.
By contrast - if you edit using HD Edit, the changes don't take place until you actually move the pedal (which in turn will de-select the edit controls in HD Edit). That means you have to edit the setting - move the pedal (i.e. move it off max and then put it back to max), listen to the value then you have to reselect the FX & parameter in HD Edit again before you can change the value. Then you you have to move the pedal again to get it to take effect... It's annoying, which is why I edit the EXP parameters on the pedal itself.
I think I've got that part, but now say on top of that Tube Drive I also want to control an EQ parameter. Is that possible?
Yes, you repeat the process for each effect (select the FX, select the parameter, select the controller + define min/max values). You only edit the values for 1 parameter of 1 effect at a time. You repeat this process for each separate parameter for an effect you wish to control (just change the parameter pull-down menu and modify the desired min/max values) and again for each separate FX you wish to control (once again, repeat for each separate parameter you wish to control for that FX).
1.) Select Tube Drive FX. Select Drive parameter. Select the EXP1 controller and enter desired min/max values.
2.) Select Tube Drive FX (or leave it if it was already selected). Select Volume parameter. Select the EXP1 controller and enter desired min/max values.
3.) Select EQ FX. Select High parameter (or equivalent for that EQ). Select the EXP1 controller and enter desired min/max values
4.) Select EQ FX (or leave it if it was already selected). Select Mid parameter (or equivalent for that EQ). Select the EXP1 controller and enter desired min/max values
In this example, you would be adjust the Drive and volume for the Tube driver and the High and Mid values for the EQ every time you adjust the EXP1 pedal. When the heel is down, it will be the "Min" value you entered for each and when the toe is down it will be the "max" value you entered for each. In between the heel and toe, it will be some value in-between the min/max values you selected based on where you leave the pedal.
Two guitars-totally different volumes
Another option - Put a compressor in front of your chain. You can set up a switch to toggle the level higher/lower. You can have the same button change the drive/bass/etc for the amp. Call it a HB/Single Coil switch.
Single coils are generally brighter and lower output. So when the switch is engaged, you want to increase the input level, probably bump up the bass and maybe even adjust the drive gain on the amp.
In fact, there is a guy over on TGP who is a P&W guitarist. He has presets available (for free, donation strongly encouraged as he his a stand-up dude...). He does this technique. You can try his patches to see what I mean...
He generally sets the amp gain higher than I prefer. But you'll get the idea.
BTW, he puts this on FS1, so if you have a Helix Lt, you may have to look at the options assigned to that button in the editor and assign it to a different FS (he has it set up as "controllers" for the compressor level and the amp bass parameters...)