doug316

Gotta love it. Snagged a "blemished" Helix from Zzounds that turned out to be a scuffed protective tape on the scribble strips, which did its job well. Happy purchase at almost 20% off and no waiting... so check those sites periodically and maybe you'll get lucky.

Nothing for the scribble strips?

Well, I just saw a DT25 for $600 at a major retailer. They were very anxious to move it, and they said that Line 6 was closing them out. 

I've been very excited about Helix because it looks like the first preamp that actually has a good user interface on it and all the features I've ever wanted. The DT's have that for the tube power, I see no reason to ever buy another Line 6 amp, especially if they obsolete the DT series. I can only hope they'll release a modest upgrade but still support the existing line. 

I'm not an accountant, so you pretty much know as much as I do now, but I trust Line 6's accountants: Deferred Revenue on Wikipedia.

 

When Enron screwed all those people over, a bunch of trade laws were enacted to ensure the same thing couldn't happen again.

Thanks. Sounds like it's a matter of interpretation (a very conservative one in this case), I wonder if there are any cases or precedent on a more direct application of this to a situation like this one. It's bad for everyone to prohibit companies from outlining roadmaps. I'm all for requiring disclaimers that future features are planned but not promised, etc.

No comment necessary, just putting it out there. This is important enough for this and future product releases, so I hope Line 6's legal team has investigated this thoroughly enough to be certain. As-is, I really feel like lack of DS support out of the gate can really sour the reputation of Line 6, a company that has the loyalty of many customers around the world.

Nope, and we've discussed it ad nauseum on more than a dozen threads. Basically, it deals with deferred revenue, trade law, and believe it or not, Enron. No company is allowed to promise (or by extension, state something that could be inferred as a promise) anything without deferring revenue until said promise is fulfilled. Smaller independent companies, while still on the hook, are rarely baited, but larger, publicly-traded companies such as Line 6's parent, Yamaha, are under close scrutiny at all times.

 

The only reason Apple's able to announce products or features many months in advance is because they have billions in cash and can afford to defer revenue.

I searched a bit and didn't find anything--@Digital_Igloo do you happen to have any references online to the law? I'm very curious and would like to learn more about it.

Or, as has been stated many times... it's illegal for us to talk about what's coming.

Illegal? You've to be kidding.

As I said earlier...after I originally did the first post, Digital Igloo wrote me and told me that they are working on getting the integration with the DT amps via L6 link.

 

So it appears to me that they are working on it and will correct the problem in the near future. :)​

With all due respect to the Igloo, that's not good enough! IMO there needs to be an official public statement from Line 6 about what the intended DT support will be in the Helix. I cannot think of any good reason why they would not do so, other than they know we will be disappointed and it will decrease sales. 

It seems odd that Line 6 did not forewarn exactly how the DT would react to the L6 Link connection from Helix. Somebody must have at least tried using L6 Link with a DT at some point, don't you think? Maybe not, but I think I remember reading that when using two DT amps via L6 Link, that they get hard L and R signals like a pair of StageSource amps. 

Indeed. And there's even a DT in the background of the latest YouTube videos (artist demos). 

They could benefit so much from open communication. We get it...this is tech, and you can't release all features in 1.0 and get the product out. But why in the world don't they officially address the issues that correspond to their flagship marketing message (Dream Rig)?

I think @CipherHost is right on -- the behavior is suspicious of an incomplete protocol handshake. Any deeper speculation is just that. The real answer about whether the irresponsible abandonment of the DT series is happening or not and I don't get why we must be left in the dark.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

What I'm saying is that when you plug in the Helix via L6 link to the DT amp...the topography controls do not work at all and you have no way of even knowing what topography you are using.

 

And the only gain that works is the physical amplifier controls because the signal is being passed to the preamp section.

Ok, so not "all" of the control are working, just the knobs (on which channel?) But the gain on the helix is not working?? That doesn't sound right.

I would seriously think that right now, the only way to run helix is into the FX return. If that's not sounding right then something must not be configured right, i.e. you're not using a preamp model on the helix.

Having said that...Digital Igloo has told me just now that they are working on a better integration with the DT amps on the next major update of the Helix. It will never integrate as much as the HD500 did. But it will integrate and be usable!

Excuse the ignorance, who are they? And if they are giving you details about integration level, can you elaborate?

And I was only getting a faint sound no matter how much I turned up the amp master. I always keep the controls on the amp all the way off when using the L6 link (no real reason, I just do).

So I reached over and turned up channel A on the front of the amp and there it was. Every control on the front panel of the amp is working. :(  Which must mean that L6 with Helix is hitting the preamp section first.

Are you saying topology is working manually after all? And gain as well?

It's sounding more to me like they just haven't complete the integration yet. That makes sense, to limit features to get the product out (no later than it already is). The default would be for the L6 Link to route to the preamp in the absence of a control message to do otherwise. 

I submitted this request here:

 

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/DT-amp-compatibility-for-Helix/726817-23508?submitted=1

 

Please go vote for it. Let Line 6 know how important this is.

 

Thanks!!

Just as a sanity check here, is there an official statement at all about this? Or are we just guessing because it doesn't happen to work now? Other reports are that using L6 Link disables the topology selection on the DT entirely, this might imply that it's a simple software feature that hasn't reached the top of the list yet. 

I can still run a 1/4" out to the return send of the DT50, but it isn't sounding so hot when I do that.

Are you using a preamp model on the Helix when you try this? I'd be pretty surprised if this didn't work. Contrary to what radatats says, I'd be surprised if the effects return wasn't an input directly into the power section. 

Do you have a source for this statement about the DT architecture? Or is it speculation?

Like I have been saying in other threads... there are physical reasons why the Helix L6 link isn't an easy fix in the DT.  The DT is a fully integrated hybrid of the HD technology and the tube power section.  I think the firmware update will need to be in the DT, not the Helix, to make this a reality. 

 

For now I guess I will use DT Edit to set all my DT channels to no preamp and set the topology to match the 4 switch positions.  At least that way I can still play around with all 4 topologies with my Helix.  Gonna be a busy weekend! (plus a meet and greet with the Winery Dogs in NYC!)

Its your decision obviously, but you should remember that the DT series is constructed around the HD amp modeling, not the new HX amp modeling.  One might think that the power section is completely separate from the pre section in a DT but I don't think that is the case.  There is a lot of integration in the signal flow to enable all the features like LVM, Direct Out, etc.  I have no doubt that if it was at all possible they would have included it.  My bet is it can't physically be done due to the actual construction of a DT amp and its internal signal flow.  That said, the Helix signal fed to the DT FX return still does the trick.  The workarounds are to use midi or program the DT using DT Edit so the topology switch actually sets the topology you want.  Not that hard to select topology or class using the switches.  I can't see canceling the Helix order if it does everything else you need and sounds better that the HD just for that feature.  Just my opinion...

I can't justify paying a premium price for otherwise amazing products that leave out critical features, that are congruent with the company's previous product development and marketing efforts. The helix appears to invalidate a primary selling point of the DT series. I won't keep obsoleting gear when it would be otherwise unnecessary. 

Line 6 really needs to get their act together and let people know what's going on with things like this. 

Wow I had no idea. Canceling my pre-order immediately. How in the world can Line 6 justify this on a $1500 flagship front-end? 

What's the point of using the Line 6 Link without topology switching?

I really love Line 6 product but its as if they are intentionally leaving out key features just to irritate their loyal customers. (Power switch on HD series for example?)

Buh bye