willsmythe37

Just to weigh in. When it comes to strictly stereo effects... I've resorted to putting a simple mono EQ at the end of the chain. ...just to assure myself that what's going into the amp (in this case) is solely mono. It does make an audible difference as I think at that point it merges the stereo feed... but you can then adjust the reverb to taste

Hello all, I don't suppose anyone has caught word of the next firmware release date? Is it to be a patch to fix bug issues and the like. Or is there rumors of additional features, amps, effects etc? Considering the huge engagement with ideascale, I'm sure there are an endless list of potential updates that Line 6 want to bring to the table. What's number one of your list of potential updates?

I.e When importing using the editor. If you group select all IR .wav files within a folder, the editor will bring them all in top to bottom. No need to load in everything individually... (I haven't seen anyone mention that on the forums yet)

I had a similar experience. So much so that I experimented with all manner of different combinations and settings. After all that, I still didn't find the right answer. It might not be right for you, but try the global EQ settings I posted in the thread image (about halfway down the page) http://line6.com/support/topic/19889-help-setting-up-4cm-metal-tone/?do=findComment&comment=150882 It helped me shape out what I was looking for... I then set about finding an IR that was similar in it's colouration. TL:DR Other things I learned. Running direct into the power amp in, from the 1/4" out is right. Check with your manufacturer to work out if it's a Line level input or Instrument level. Turned out mine was Line! Download the free OwnHammer IR's and load them all in sequentially. Look at the information in the manual on mic placement per IR. I found that I did away with using the global EQ, by just finding an IR that I liked, that seemed to reproduce a similar EQ curve to the Global one I setup... Whilst also providing some sonic-resistance to the raw amp blocks output/feel. As others have said, yeah... without using a cab sim, does sound shrill. I love the feel of the ANGL amp.... it's just that the top end is super bright and at volume, makes my ears want to die. I found that I could get a respectable low register tone, without the top end hazard of the ANGL, by using the PV Panama. I'm not a know it all, just throwing my 2-cents as it sounds like you're going through similar experiences.

I think the tuner is pretty good/accurate. Ran into a small issue the other day where I was tuning... and it didn't seem like the tuner was registering my guitar well. I checked my guitar level/tone knobs... pick-up switch etc. All seemed fine. Turned the tuner off to check my guitar was coming through... which it was... Turned the tuner back on... and suddenly it was registering well... I put that down to a little bug there... difficult to reproduce a problem like that as it seems to be a freak occurrence. ^^^ Guy's have a point.... those blocks could be thinner and in larger quantities. Would give people more confidence in it. I'd say, adjusting the visual representation of the tuner, is not AS important as a potential visual representation of para-EQ on screen and audio signal metering graphs.

That's interesting... Just speculating but maybe it's because the G30 roll's off signal below a certain threshold to prevent added noise by the receiver? Like a gate would. Glad it's not just me that has noticed this. I tried switching from using an AMP block, to a PRE-AMP block last night. After raising the level of the Pre-Amp channel setting, so that it matched that of my standard patch, the "Merrrr" was very much the same. Taking the tube screamer away did clean it up a bit, it is still present though. The bog standard amp tone doesn't sound as vibrant that way either. I'll have to try dropping the gain level down on the amp settings, then applying the distortion from a tube screamer to see if that works/sounds better? I did talk to a guy on the Fender Website via their online chat service. Turn's out I've been feeding an 'instrument' level signal into the 'Power-amp-in/Effects Return'... when actually it requires a 'line' level signal. I doubt this plays a big part in the problem, it's likely just been protecting me from blowing my tubes up!

Hello all, I'm not sure if anyone else is having this issue. Ive been using the helix for the pre-amp stage of my guitar amp, for metal tones. I'm having to use gates with thresholds at -35db to prevent my guitar feeding back. The gain on the amp ANGL is set at 6 and I have a tube screamer with gain at 0 before it. I should mention it's not the pre-amp version of the amp,as I found I had to rack the tone controls up to get anywhere close to what I wanted (I.e 10 bass, 2 mids, 2 high) If I remove all gates and stomp pedals, I have this huge noisey (meeerrrrrr) sound in the noise floor. Are there any other reports of this? I've applied the guitar input pad now, which I think it has helped, but wind-up cranking the gain to get the same amount of sustain as before? Other info: guitars use two passive humbuckers,

Hello all. Just a quick message to see what people are doing with their impedance control, under global settings. Currently I still have my helix set to the default 'auto' and will likely keep it that way until after an upcoming gig. I saw somewhere online that a lower resistance or ohms, will reduce a 2-3kHz spike initial input? How effective is the auto setting? Do I need to look up a spec sheet of my guitars pickups? I'm also wondering if this could be a reason I've heard an emphasis on the upper tier frequencies in the HX cabs in the helix themselves? Despite high/low cuts.

Cheers for the heads up there pal. I'll try and adjust to using 12 o'clock on the Helix master volume as standard. I'll setup some comparative patches tonight using the pre-amps instead, with/without cab/IR's and run them all as a comparison at practice tomorrow morning. It may not be correct methodology but I've found that using an IR is almost an EQ shortcut. With the right one, it has helped get the right kind of sounds, sooner. Tomorrow I'll have: 6 set's of, 4 presets to try. a) Amp Angl and IR b) Amp PV and IR c) Pre Angl only d) Pre Angl and IR e) Pre PV only f) Pre PV and IR Will see how it goes. I'll surely be able to run with one of them ;) Consider this thread "complete". Thanks again for the help everyone.

Hey. Set up a patch as you normally wish to within the Helix. (Allegedly use a pre-amp block, not amp) Followed by a Cab/IR of your choice. Then just connect your guitar up to the Helix. The Helix (regular 1/4" out) to the 'Power amp-in" (Also called 'effects return') (Don't connect up to the front of the amp, like you normally do) Check your global settings so that the 1/4" outs are set to instrument level.

Gave 2CM "Power amp in" a shot last night and was pleasantly surprised by the results. I suppose the reason I was struggling was because the EQ on the combo pre-amp was colouring the EQ in a contrasting way to that of the Amp sims EQ in the Helix is doing. It definitely simplifies the process running into it like that as I was fighting an uphill battle trying to emphasize certain frequencies that were missing, whilst reducing over amplified ones. Only issue with that method is, the 'power amp in' literally rag's the amp at max volume 24/7. In my own mind, I'd like to have the Helix Volume Switch set to max. But doing this, meant I had to lower channel volume on the Amp sims in my patches down to 2.5-3.0 (My Fender Combo is damn loud!) I found I could keep the same IR I had been using which was helpful. It was almost behaving like a global EQ in itself! I have experimented with using the Pre-Amp blocks in the past, which I suppose would be the correct block to use (versus the Amp Block). In the past I found they had way less in the bottom end department and also the feel was totally different, but that was before I had routed direct into the Power Amp Tubes. That may be the next step to be honest and I'm sure is the reason I have the massive volume difference. I suppose it will mean I don't have to be shy when using the tone controls within the helix amp. I could run the bass at 10 and it'll likely maintain it's playability. Getting closer guys. Thanks for all the wise words. Pre-Amp blocks to test next! Side note: I think the soaring wailing highs I have been trying to dial out are a characteristic of the Angl simulation itself. I recorded my amp through a SM58 into a DAW so I could analyse the signal. As I suspected, those soaring notes range from 800Hz right the way up to 8Khz. Rules of "fundamental frequencies" I suspect. Decided to chop out the Angl for the PV Panama. In contrast to previous efforts, took no time at all and the "resonance" parameter on the last page, literally made my day when it came to the "guttural" bass feeling I was looking for.

Thanks guys. I suppose the one part of my little experiment that I left out was skipping the power amp tubes entirely. I have the afternoon off today and the missus isn't home till late. I intend to give the pre-amp bypass method a shot then run comparisons to see which I prefer. It is sounding a lot better already despite running an Amp and IR into the Combo's pre-amp. Could be down to a pretty transparent pre-amp in the combo? I guess it's just one of those things I took for granted about the Pod XT live. I used to just switch the settings over to combo-front/studio direct and I could use the same tones at home for recording, as at practice. Looking forward to another session of tinkering this afternoon ;)

Side note. I haven't tried running directly into the Power amp-in yet. Aside from liking the ability to still use the tone-stack, part of me feels that I should use the pre-amp section of the 950£ guitar amp because it is available. I will try a patch where the send and return is skipped, fed directly into the Power amp-in. I'm wondering if it's going to make a great deal of difference though.

Tried these setups with a guitar amp?

Had a chance to have another fiddle last night with my settings on the Helix. I thought I might put together a little experiment and post my findings. I ran together a long sequence of different preset configurations where, the start and end of the signal chain was the same... just mixing and matching different pre-amp blocks, amp blocks, Stock Cabs and IR's. These were placed in differentiating positions and I adjusted the gain staging to check everything was consistent. The IR I used was one of the free Ownhammer ones. I believe it was a 121 Ribbon mic as I wanted to get a spot of the boomy low mids that rumble through at live shows. The stock cab in comparison (4x12 V60), sounds more rounded and flatter. Off hand, I can't remember the exact settings of mic positioning and what not. Amp-wise I was using the Angl Simulation. It has quiet lot of pick attack which really cuts through especially when shredding in the upper register. Actual combo settings, Bass [7], Mid [5], High [5], Presence [4] The standard stuff, identical across all the different patches. At the start, Input gate [-50dB], High/low cut filter [70hz-12kHz], Compressor [-22dB 4:1 rat], Scream 808 [2.0, 5.0, 8.0}- >>>> ->>>>> At the end, High/low cut filter [100Hz-7.5kHz], Room reverb (low, but present in the mix) I'll list some of the blocks that were positioned in between and you'll get the picture. Amp - Cab - Send - Return Amp - IR - Send - Return Amp - Send - Return - Cab Amp - Send - Return - IR Send - Return - Amp - Cab Send - Return - Amp - IR The same permutations were used with the Pre-Amp blocks too, just to humour the difference and for knowing in the future. Conclusion Cutting a long story short. Don't put amp and cab blocks after the S/R. Surprisingly enough, what comes back in from the real amps pre-amp is a tad noisy and shrill. Despite the cab/IR block. This is likely down to the position of the Scream 808 being situated before the send (perhaps it would be better situated after the send too?) This'll be something I'll have to check out again I think. More ideal results came from both full Amp block and Cab/IR positioned before the send. Or with the Amp before and the Cab/IR situated after the return. The main differences being: [Amp - Cab/IR - Send] More controlled highs and a flatter frequency representation of the Cab/IR. This is probably subject to the Low/Mid/High/Presence controls on my Combo amp. [Amp - Send - Cab/IR] The colour of the Cab/IR was way more intact instead of it coming through rather flat. Worrying highs were cutting in though and some frequencies were over accentuated. This may be softened with a High/Low cut before the send too or selecting a alternative IR that isn't as Low mid heavy. This was a fun little experiment. I did this for my own piece of mind to get to understand the audible differences in the signal chain. I'm sure plenty of you will want to weigh-in on the theoretical differences. Once again not saying what is right and wrong. Perhaps it will help others using 4CM method that are struggling to get exactly what they want when subbing in a different amp model. Going back to early experiences. I had used just the Pre-amp/Amp blocks on their own without any Cab/IR simulation. I found I had to drastically Global EQ the absolute **** out of it to get closer to the sound I was looking for. Despite this not being quiet right, I did learn what sort of curve I was looking for ideally. It's a shame there isn't an EQ block within the helix that has the very same parameters as the global EQ. Either way, all of the above experiments were performed without any Global EQ, the Cab/IR sim essentially behaving as the global EQ would within the signal chain itself. Things still to do: - Re-do the Amp/Cab post send tests with the distortion pedal situated directly after the send instead. - Try using a more balanced IR post send, with the Amp pre-send. Amp and Cab pre-send is what I'll take to practice with me on Saturday. Will see how it meshes with the band mix at rehearsals. Any minor EQ adjustments can probably be dropped in after the Cab block from there.

amsdenj, I just gave your suggestion a shot but unfortunately couldn't reproduce a full bodied metal tone using just the distortion stomps alone. The standard Amp block with an obscene amount of global EQ applied seemed to get closer to what I'm looking for. I was just talking to a fella on the Helix Facebook group and he says he uses cab sims too..... may be a more realistic way around my current global EQ settings. ---- I'm going to take a couple of photo's of the current global EQ settings, so I can revert back to them at rehearsals next week. Then I'll try and dial in Amp and Cab sims together with their own unique Global EQ.

Nah, Clean of a 2x12 Hot Rod Deville combo.

I've been tinkering some more. Decided that the mid frequency bump needed to be brought back, more towards 600-800hz on my global EQ. Will have to wait till next Saturday for rehearsals. May find I have to bring the low cut in further... but hopefully it's fine. The persistence of the clicky-click sound appears to be a characteristic of the amp model itself so might explain why I can't dial it out easily. Last thing to do is to check my patch levels are right... That will have to wait until next week also. I have a feeling I won't be getting much closer that this. Definitely happier than before. Cheers

Thanks for the reply Rickster. I think the reason I initially used pre-amp blocks before the send/return was because the gain staging seemed to make sense. Just tried a regular amp block with the same model/similar settings and had to drop the master/ch volume right down to a similar level. (Just chopping and changing between each block by bypassing one at a time) Found waaayyyyy more bottom end doing it your way. Also stumbled upon the guitar impedence setting in the Global settings. It was set to auto as standard... Auto seems to just be the maximum setting available. Does this need to be adjusted too? The below EQ curve seems to have helped a lot

Hi Rickster, Does this seem wrong to you? Are you suggesting that using the pre-amp block before the Helix 'send and return' is incorrect? I was looking to include the Amp-sim in the signal chain. Maybe you're right... I could try dropping the same block in before the regular out is fed to the power tubes.

Hello all, I've had the helix floorboard for a week and it's seen two practices with my band. I'm still not quiete happy with the tone in getting. I want to run it into my 2x12 combo amp via 4CM. As seems to be the general consensus, I have been using a engl pre-amp block before the send, which is being connected to the pre-amp in of The amp. No cab sims etc Low freq's aren't my problem... They can be easily cut, or notched out to taste. My problem is the high frequencies. I use the global EQ applied and with the visual help of the PC editor have set it to gradually roll off from 1kHz (-.05fb) to 8kHz(-7db) Even like this, the highs are pushing through so loudly, they're super shrill and kill the waters in my ear drums. I've tried just notchin out certain areas of the frequency range but it winds up sounding super unnatural. Emphasis seems to be around pick attack right the way from 800hz< I do run a tube screamer before the pre-amp block for extra gain to help with pinch harmonics. The gain level is set at 2.0 so only really there for character. (The Minotaur was toooo shrill!) 1/4 jacks are set to instrument level. Does anyone have any experience running into this problem and how did you overcome it? I have my amp at home with me and the missus has given some permission to "rag it". So hopefully I can get this problem taken care of by the end of play I'm almost at an ends, any little pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Funnily enough, I haven't actually used them. I'll have a look and see what they have in there. i.e Whether they used pre-amp blocks or Amp blocks prior to the 'Send' If you want to use Cab emulation, at which point in the signal chain it should be positioned. Side note unrelated: Has anyone noticed that the splitting of two paths and merging causes a boost in volume? I know why, as it's summing two paths together. I forget though, do I need to lower the level by -3dB or -6dB when the two paths merge back together? (Sound intensity level/Sound pressure level)

Not a massive complainer but I do think there should be more informative detail in the manual paid to the connection of the device in differentiating scenarios. The manual is pretty straight forward... but the many different ways to connect the device depending on your situation seems to missing entirely. Perhaps this is down to the very large signal routing options. It should be clearer though. Say "want to connect to your actual Amp and Cab" - Do this - Use these blocks in this combination "going 4CM" - Use these sim blocks - Position them here - Want to use the cabs? put them here" - Check your Line/Ins settings are correct through the signal chain "Best positioning for your effects blocks" - Distortions before AMP (If this is correct) - Modulation Before or after Amp? - Delay and Verb after CAB (If this is correct) I mean, the Forum is a great resource, but actually I've had very differentiating advice from users regarding connectivity to amps. I don't mean to come across as a newb either, but I do think there are some hard and fast rules to this and there isn't (as I'm aware) any concise usage resources.

You know what.... Roscoe might've had it there.... When I was at practice, I didn't adjust any of the line/instrument settings. It could be the 1/4" out was still set to be using the Line level settings....from the home studio. Looks like i'll have to dig the old Peavey 1x12 out again tonight, to see if I need to adjust the patches again. Since my earlier post. I took my initial patches and created 4CM method versions of each. I removed the Cab sims from the signal change and replaced the Amp blocks for matching Pre-Amp blocks (they sounded similar but had much lower gain staging. Tonight I'll try returned the Pre-Amp blocks to Amp blocks.... then check that all outputs are set to instrument level. Working progress.... I wouldn't have overlooked the Ins/line settings, if there was a manual switch on the unit itself (Like me ol' Pod XT live).

Thanks London.... 50/50 is the way forward... I think I initially used 70% mix.... but changed it at practice down to what you suggested. I lowered the upper FC freq down from 2.2kHz.... and it took the edge of the sharp highs.... I wonder if it's one of those things. Maybe I still need to adjust the global EQ further, using wider Q settings in the higher are. I have noticed a LOT of pick attack in all of my tones.