JLondon

So the Litigator has been my favorite Helix amp sim for a looooong time.  It may have been since last Helix update but I'm hearing a loud hum that I hadn't noticed before - specifically with this amp.  I first thought it might be something to do with my Powercab Plus that I updated a few weeks ago but when I tried other amp sims it dissappears.  AND I also tested it on Helix NATIVE which also has latest update (unless there's a pretty new one that I've overlooked) and yep - same thing.  You certainly couldn't record with it.  This has nothing to do with gain or boost  pedals.  Hums with nothing but amp and cab in signal chain.  If I decrease gain/volume enough to make it go away it's unusable.  Again, this is the case in both the Helix floor AND Native so it 'appears' to indicate an update issue rather than a hardware issue.   I haven't checked every amp sim in the Helix but a lot of them including high gain amps - and it appears to be specifically the Litigator.  Waaaaa ... I want my amp back.  Anybody else experiencing this or know what's up?

So why not a Super Reverb amp in the Helix?  I had always thought ther was until I wanted to put one in my chain.  Looks like there's every major Fender amp represented except the Super Reverb.

It depends upon the kind of stereo separation you are wanting.  Personally, I don't see the big deal with a single 212 for "stereo" purposes.  Two Powercab 112s, or studio monitors, or 2 Stagesources, or any combination of the above sounds to me what you want.  I personally have a single 112 pc+, two Stagesource LT3s, one Stagesource LT2,  and two Yamaha studio monitors w/sub - so I've played with every possibility.  My favorite is using a 'REAL' wet/dry/wet method with dry guitar signal and gain effects in middle through the PC+ and my time based effects coming out of the stereo Stagesources or monitors.   AAaaaand with the Stagesources and/or studio monitors, I  have the advantage of on of the best music 'listening' systems on the planet to boot.  All this in a 12 x 16 room.  Overkill I know but it's pretty awesome!  Long story short - go with a 'pair' of something if you can afford it and you'll get more bang for your buck. 

One may achieve an interesting 'effect' only since the Helix won't duplicate the spoken word.  Might create a harmonic sterile 'tone' with oohs and ahhs at best.  Definitely won't be a quote "vocal harmonizer" though.

Yep.  That's what happens alright.  Not just you.  It's a ground loop and it's a problem for everyone wanting to plug into their computer and an amplifier at the same time.  There is a box you can buy on Amazon that you plug USB into before computer that a lot of people claim to have had good luck with but I don't recall at the moment what it is.  Do a Google search of ground loop Helix USB and you should find it pretty quick.  They're about $70 if memory serves correctly.

Not exactly an answer to your precise question, but if I were playing around with this, I'd be doing WDW with only the dry guitar signal (and distortion effects) coming out of the poweramp and the FRFR, and your wet/timebased effects coming only out of your monitors in stereo.  I did this with my Powercab+/and poweramp, and 2 Stagesource FRFR speakers.  Then just for fun, I also added my Yamaha monitors to the FRFR stereo effects by using an old Behringer studio mixer.  And THEN since I was using a Line 6 G10 Relay instead of guitar cable, I was able to play through my Yamaha THR30 independantly at the same time.  LOL!  It was crazy I tell ya!  I'm using the Helix Floor which probably allowed me more options than some of the smaller units - I don't know.  But the hardest problem I ran into was getting "real" stereo to the wet speakers.  This is more trouble for me than it should be in a basic/simple stereo setup as well for some reason.

Okay by asking this question you've just opened a can of worms that's been opened many times before, including by myself.  For some reason this is a very sensitive topic for a lot of people and they will descend upon you like a Salem Witch Hunt for posting here instead of the "idea" page after having done the very same thing many times but concering almost any other topic.  The rest of this "lot" will ridicule you for feeling the desire to have this option in the first place.  I don't get it and I'm totally with you.  The Idea page is hardly visited by anyone other than the one's posting the "idea" unless the waters have been tested and concept promoted here first so people even know to go the idea page and vote.   That said, I do seem to recall a reply from someone who was actually helpful although I don't remember the specifics - but I think there's a sound technical reason why your wish is not possible.

On second thought,  are you sure  the manual didn't say to use an amp without a cab rather than a preamp?

First, I'm sorry I can't help with your question because I wasn't aware that this was the case (pre-amps with LINK and Powercab).  Could you tell me which manual this was in?  The Helix or the Powercab manual?  I somehow missed this.  Thanks in advance.

Yep!  I think that most every complaint concerning the Helix and the like by the analog purists is 90% due to the fact that they're not using the new tech as it was meant to be used.  That being an apples to apples system front to back.  Most everyone, including myself tries to mix the two technologies the then most of the time doesn't do that right either.  You're gonna love the Powercab.  It, in combination with the Helix, completely blows my analog stuff out of the water.  Still awesomely usable doing the 4 cable method but it's just not worth the trouble.  It's a deep well learning to get everything between Helix/PC+ set up properly, but I'm selling all my awesome old stuff and not looking back. 

Okay so I'm not bragging, I'm just saying so you'll know that I have experience with this.  I have Helix Floor, two L3s (one with on-board mixer and one without), an L2 (with on-board mixer), AND the PC112+.  I use the L2 at church cause it's smaller/lighter/easier to move around after having toted the L3 for a while.  I use/d them for both electric and acoustic and have always considered either of the "T" versions to be as good for acoustic as the best acoustic amp I've ever used and I've had some good ones.  That said, I was equally amazed the the PC+ for acoustic.  I honestly don't think you can go wrong with any of them.  HOWEVER, I like the PC+ for electric better.  HOWEVER again, since you are primarily an acoustic player, and you have TWO L2s,  I personally couldn't sell both in order to replace them with ONE PC+.  Once you've played stereo it's kind of hard to go back - especially for acoustic (in my opinion).  HOWEVER number three, I've never tried running my PC+ in series with an L2/3 using as you described.  I've read on forums that the answer to that desire is "no".  But I will be trying it tonight and I'll let you know "IF" it works.  Otherwise - no.  HOWEVER number four (grin),  I find it completely hard to believe that running a typical split from different outputs (not LINK) wouldn't be perfectly fine.  That's no different that sending a signal to a PC+ and front of house and they both units are expecting a 'line' signal.  Even if they weren't you could set your outputs in global to send a line signal to one and an Instrument signal to the other.  Right now, within the same Helix preset, I'm running a 4 cable method signal to a tube amp/cab AND a line signal to my PC+.  Then I have one snapshot set to my amp only, one to the PC+ only, and one to play both.  Oooh!  Your post has inspired me to try a WDW setup using the amp/cab for dry guitar and the L2/PC+ for mods in stereo.  The Helix is truly an amazingly versatile unit.

Of course opinions are like rear ends, but here's mine - Without knowing what kind of music you play or your playing environments, there's only 3 possible choices in my opinion.  The PC+, Line 6 Stagesource (with optional on-board mixer and acoustic guitar feature), or the Mission FRFR.  Based upon your budget description, the PC+ is the clear winner and the Mission is right out by a long shot.  In my opinion the Helix with the PC+ is as though a lost child found its mother.  As a long time photographer, I still remember when digital finally crossed the line where it was a true competitor with film.  The PC+ concept in general and any other models of its kind that may have popped up since (or any improvements made upon it to come) is the final piece of thread that actually ties the whole digital amp/cab concept together.   Both the PC+ and the Line 6 Stagesource also make the best acoustic guitar amplifiers I've ever played on.   might be a better choice I've got the PC+112 and 3 Stagesource speakers of various types/sizes and if I had to choose between them strictly for use with my Helix, the PC+ is the winner hands-down.  But if you play a super loud music genre in large live settings then the 212 version of PC+ or the other options I mentioned should easily suffice for on-stage monitoring although you've completely blown your budget.  That said, the most important (and expensive) lesson I've learned is that NO speaker system, IR, or purchased preset you've heard on a YouTube video is going to sound ANYTHING like you had hoped until you create a separate tweaked preset for literally every guitar you own, style of music you play, size/type of room/environment, etc.  And by the time you learn how to "tweak" your purchased presets on the Helix to suit these factors, you find that you could have just created the preset yourself to start with, or often could have gotten the sound you were looking for from a pc of equipment you already owned all along.  But there has never been a "one size fits all" setup in the analog amp/pedalboard world and there's not one for the digital mod world either.  This is also absolutely true of the budget thing.

A)  Yes, you must be doing something wrong.  Mine is Awesome!  B) As pointed out previously, you need to update.  C) You have to re-adjust your previously created presets to sound right with the PC+.  Otherwise the stock cabs are absolutely going to sound very nasal/boxy and uninteresting.   Especially experiment with the high/low cut speaker settings.  That said, I've come to prefer a particular IR pretty much across the board and I like it to be on the PC+ rather than in the Helix chain so that other Helix effects don't have any affect on the cab itself - just like in an analog setup.  I think my 'full-circle" return to the IR is the result of having gotten used to the sound of the new tech.  I don't even care for my old 'real' cabs anymore and I can even make the stock PC+ cabs sound better.  My traditional analog cabs sound nasal and boxy to me now in a 'studio'/bedroom setting but that certainly could totally change however if playing live in a mix.  If you want proof that the new tech can be made to sound the same (in a 'solo room' environment) - or better , create a preset where you are using (correctly) the PC+ on one channel - and 4 CM to what you 'thought' you liked in a traditional amp/cab setup and compare (this is actually an excellent method to duplicate your various analog amp/cab tones - however, if you're using Helix "Edit" and a computer to do this you probably will have to take steps to overcome ground-loop noise issues that almost always occur when running an analog poweramp  to a 'computer' via the Helix USB connection - but that's not the PC+'s fault).  I personally don't know how Helix/PC+ holds up for a Djent/Heavy Metal type style of play.  But for everything else,  I can get a better sound, dynamics, and string attack sensitivity on the Helix/PC+ every time.   D)  I highly recommend you watch the following video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6XKaYoNGDg  and change your Helix Globals so that you are running unity gain  (big volume knob on Helix no longer has any effect on volume going to PC+) when re-adjusting your presets. 

If you can afford 2 PC+ by all means do it - do not pass go.   'OR' a couple of Line 6 Stagesource speakers will do the same thing.   I would say it depends upon the style of music you play.  I have a single PC+112 and two of the bigger Stagesource speakers (one of those with the on-board mixer option for playing out and keeping it REAL simple).   I like TX Blues, Gilmour, and basic edge of break-up tones for which the PC+112 is amazing.  I don't play the real hard stuff, but I would think the Stagesource speakers or a pair of the 212 PC+ would be better for that.  That aside, I've recently revisited messing around between various cabling into a tube amp that I kinda miss.  I absolutely don't think it's worth it.  I was a photographer when digital was finally able to be a real substitute for film and what a struggle it was for the purists, and myself, to admit it.  I honestly think the current amp and effect mod tech has finally reached that point as well.  Especially with the advent of the PC+.  It has a learning curve of it's own but it's all in there. 

Very interesting question.Yeah, what rd2rk said would be the simplest way of going about it if you were able to somehow split between two discreet paths.  I also see a more sordid/complicated method of possibly assigning multiple effects to the expression pedal - but not using the two presets you showed specifically.  All that aside, the first question that pops into my mind is that - if you COULD do what your asking with these two specific presets, would the mix in between even produce a sound that's desirable?    One can't automatically assume that it would and without doing it I suppose you'll never know.   I'm not sure what DSP allows in this case, but if you could simply move the last reverb from each preset  (the one's in the lower signal paths) to it's upper signal path respectively, and then create a new preset with the clean in the upper path and the Dist in the lower, then you could assign the expression to blend between the two.  But you may have to sacrifice at least one effect block from the upper signal paths of each preset in order to do it (due to DSP limitations).  Lastly, with the last update, there's a lot of new possibilities using the "command center".  Someone else might be able to shed light on that as I haven't had time to explore as much as I'd like.  But I think you can now assign a foot-switch to automatically change back and forth between two presets so maybe instead of assigning this to a foot-switch it could be assigned to the expression pedal.  I don't know.

There's no right or wrong answer here because I'm not having a "technical" problem.  I'm just having trouble making up my mind.  I simply would like to hear discussion from others what options they are using in the global settings for the snapshot/stomp modes/8or10 switch number, and "WHY/HOW" using it that way suits your own purpose/needs.  Especially interested in how the latest Command Center update factors in to those choices if you are, in fact, making use of it.  What about those who use the "looper" - does that have an effect on your global setting preferences?  Unless somebody has already done a good, and broad, YouTube video on this subject -  I really think this could be a head-slapping "could-a had a V8" thread for a LOT of people!  If there's already been multiple threads on this kindly direct me to one of them - thanks in advance!

2.91 !!!  There is no perfect version to choose from.  Start with the latest and be conservative from that point if you want.

Here's a great pdf file of all the amps/mods/effects in the Helix with current update.  You will see which have duplicates.  

2 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Which ones are duplicated? I can't find any.

http://www.robyrocks.it/articles/helixmodels/helixmodels.html

2 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

I'm completely aware of where the Legacy effects came from.  What I want to know is what is the difference that would justify including mods that were already in the Helix.

So what's the difference between the duplicated effects that are included in both Legacy and Mono/Stereo sub-menus?  I appreciate 'additional' effects, but If there's NOT a difference in the duplicates - why are they there twice?

Thanks for this.  Not only is it current but it's the absolute best version/example I've seen.

My first thought is that you should check your global settings and make sure that the volume knob is set to the output you are using (XLR, 1/4, or whatever).  Just set the volume knob to "Multi" and it should fix it unless you have a more serious problem.  For instance, if the global setting for the Vol knob is set to XLR or Digital,  but you're using the 1/4 output jack, your speakers are going to get 100% volume (line signal) regardless of where the knob is turned.

I like to "see" them too!  Unfortunately, that's never going to happen until they find a way to get them on HX Edit as well.  I would trade that update for all the amps/pedals they could possibly come up with in the future combined.  The metering is a great idea and what Line6 did certainly doesn't hurt anything or anybody, but it's still useless as an ashtray on a motorcycle otherwise unless you LIKE getting down on your hands and knees to edit your presets.  Personally I'll reserve that position for prayer that Line6 will find a way to get them on the Editor!  It's way above my pay grade, but it SEEMS completely doable since they were able to include live input/output metering in Native.

My noise is coming from the USB to computer connection.  Want to use USB connection so I can use Helix Edit but 4CM into my amp is impossible if connected to computer.  Perfect otherwise.  So I'm thinking that the Ebtech won't do me any good.   I'm even able to create snapshots switching between a 4CM connection to amp AND L6 LINK to a Powercab plus with no noise.  But plug in USB to computer and it's all over.  Very frustrating!

Depending upon the style music you play and if you're still wanting to 'play out occasionally', I say get a Line 6 Powercab Plus and don't look back.  I don't play super heavy and more radical types of Metal - but I would think no form of speaker or cab other than a 4x12 would be suitable for that anyway.  But for everything else - Powercab!  That said, after reading this thread, I'm looking forward to trying my Helix through the effects loop of my own Mesa V-25 and traditional speaker cabs.  I've been selling all my amp heads but recently decided to keep the Mesa due to it's on-board speaker load box/sim and it's capabilities with my DAW and Helix NATIVE plugin.