JLondon

I've got the Helix Floor with two L3s and an L2.  I use L2 to carry around as an onstage monitor and the L3s I use as overkill studio monitors for my tiny playroom/studio -absolutely Love em'.  That said, like yourself, I didn't feel like I could ever get the sound I wanted "at LOW volumes".  Not, that is, until I got a Powercab Plus (PC+).  I've not yet experienced personally what the PC+ sounds like with live play yet, but it sure cured my dilemma for at-home/low-vol play.  Once I figured out my personal set-up preferences, I absolutely cannot tell that I'm not playing through one of my traditional tube amp/cab/pedalboard setups.  That said (again), I'm satisfied that your personal playing style would be a very important factor.  I have the greatest respect for metal/djent/etc players but know absolutely nothing about how that should sound coming out of my own speakers.  But as a TX Blues and Gilmour style fan, I'm one happy camper.  Can't wait to pair the PC+ with the L3s for an authentic WDW setup.

I'm using two L3's as studio monitors and for Helix in my little 12x14 office space - total overkill but stereo sounds are awesome.  I also have an L2 for use at church as an onstage personal monitor.  While my L2 and L3s are a lot easier to move around (with the Line 6 wheeled case) I wish I had access to a Powercab a long time ago.  With PC+, I can send the exact same signal processing and level that I'm getting on stage to FOH.  That aside, while I've always been impressed with Helix's amp modeling capabilities, I'm feeling like I'm truly getting the actual sound of various real amps - for the very first time.  This is when using PC+ in Flat_LFraw mode with whatever amp sim and no cab sim what-so-ever on either the Helix or the PC+.  My guitar volume knob is much more responsive and no more battle with brash highs and muddy lows.   The PC+ can do anything that the Stagesources can do, and more, in regards specifically to guitar play (they're obviously not 1400 watt PA speakers).  If you actually 'need' a PA speaker, then that would support a case for sticking with your L3.  But if you're just needing a guitar speaker/monitor, I' would switch in a heart-beat.  P.S. - my advice is based upon my personal playing style.  I don't play heavy metal.  I haven't even tried getting the 'chunk' or 'djent' out of the PC+ yet.  It's possible that the L3 is better suited for that purpose.

23 hours ago, amsdenj said:

Powercab+ can be operated in four different ways, the first two provide amp in the room tones, the last two don't.

 

1. As a plain 1x12 guitar cabinet: Use this as a powered guitar cabinet. Drive it with an amp model, but no cab or IR model. This will have amp in the room sound because that's exactly what it is, a plain guitar cabinet with no mic, and no processing. Get this with:

• Flat: LF Raw - just the raw 1/x12 speaker, no tweeter, XLR out is unprocessed (not suitable for direct FOH, needs additional processing)
• Flat: LF Flat - the 1x12 speaker with some EQ, no tweeter, XLR out is unprocessed
• Speaker Model: Natural - similar to LF Flat, but XLR out has speaker and mic model suitable for sending to FOH

2. As a 1x12 guitar cabinet with processing to sound like other speakers: Use this as a powered guitar cabinet with a choice of speakers, and to send speaker/mic processing for direct use in FOH. This is also amp in the room sound because there is no mic model involved in the 1x12 (only the XLR out) and no tweeter for any of these speaker models.

 

3. As a FRFR:  Use this with amp and cab/IR models in Helix. XLR out is the same as the input and can be sent to FOH (because it has cab/IR and mic models from Helix). This use case provides support for a wide range of inputs and flexible processing from the device connected to Powercab. Also useful for acoustic guitar, keyboards, or anything that needs full range and flat response. Tweeter is on. This will not sound exactly like amp in the room for guitar because Powercab is reproducing a mic'd guitar cabinet.

 

4. As an IR processor: This kind of combines use cases 2 & 3: Powercab is a FRFR  except instead of Powercab speaker models, it uses whatever IRs you installed. This provides additional tones, but not with amp in the room. Use this if your input device doesn't support IRs, or to save a block.

 

 

 

More details (from a previous post):

 

First Powercab is primarily intended to emulate various guitar speakers in a room, that is, speaker models without mic models, mic position and mic depth. It accomplishes this by using a coaxial speaker that can have the tweeter turned off in order to actually be a guitar speaker in the room. The woofer is a custom Eminence speaker, similar in construction to a Beta-12CX coaxial speaker, but likely using a cone material and construction to more close match a typical guitar speaker rather than a fuller range PA speaker. When you run Flat/FR Raw, you're using just that woofer with no EQ or any other processing - its literally a 1x12 guitar cabinet in the room. The tweeter provides additional flexibility for other purposes explained below.

 

Flat mode has three voicings: FRFR, LF Raw and LF Flat.

 

Flat/FRFR voicing uses the woofer and tweeter in the coaxial speaker with no EQ for a full range, flat response. Use this if you're using Helix (or HX Stomp) to provide the cab model or IR for the speaker model. Powercab just acts like a typical PA or monitor speaker in this mode.

 

Flat/LF Raw voicing simply turns off the tweeter, and makes Powercab similar to any other 1x12, closed back guitar cabinet. Use only amp models in Helix or HX Stomp, no cab, or IRs for this mode/voicing. This should sound pretty close to a typical closed-back 1x12 guitar combo amp, with the specific characteristics of that custom Eminence speaker providing the speaker tone. 

 

Flat/LF Flat is a special voicing that also only uses the woofer, but uses an EQ to establish a consistent starting point for the guitar speaker models. All the speaker models are built off Flat/LF Flat, using different EQ and perhaps other custom processing to make the Eminence woofer sound like other speakers. There's no tweeter for these models, and no mic model or mic position. This is what can't be produced by Helix cab models or IRs and what makes Powercab unique. Helix cab models and IRs all involve mics, but Powercab speaker models are variations on a guitar speaker, not impulse responses of a mic'd guitar cabinet.

 

XRL output in Flat mode is the same as the PowerCab input, there is no additional processing.

 

Speaker models provide additional EQ on the Flat/LF Raw base voicing to model or mimic other speakers. The mic models and mic distance have no effect on the sound coming from the Powercab speaker, they only effect what's sent to the FOH or PA from the Powercab XLR output. Contrast with Helix where the cab models are sent to your FRFR monitor and FOH and all include mic models. Powercab XLR output needs additional mic processing that's missing from the speaker models to send to the FOH. 

 

What this means is that the guitar speaker models don't include any mic modeling in the Powercab speaker itself, making it sound more like an amp in the room.

 

Speaker model/Natural is similar to Flat/LF Raw - the output from the Powercab speaker is the same, the Powercab tone is determined only by the Eminence woofer. But the Natural speaker model has the option of sending a mic model through the XLR output.

 

User IR mode allows Powercab to essentially be set to Flat/FRFR voicing with additional processing provided by user IRs. In this case, the tweeter is on, and the IRs will include mic models. Use this mode if you're using HX Stomp, want to user your own IRs and need to save a block. There's probably less reason to use User IR mode if you're using Helix floor since its probably easier to just include the IR or cab model in Helix.

Thank you!  You should have been the one Line 6 hired to write the manual. 

So after reading everyone's kind and much appreciated replies to my frustrations, I thought I'd just share the setup that I've since decided sounds most, to 'me',  "real guitar speaker behavior".  I don't claim to be knowledgeable of the difference in various cab models in real life.  My only exposure to various models is via Helix cab/IR options and the two cabs I personally own (a 412 w/V30s and an oversized 212 Egnater cab both of which I love).   Also keep in mind my  playing style preferences are Texas Blues and on the opposite end of spectrum - Gilmourish clean and his more current gain tones.  I've decided (right or wrong) that, whether using the Helix Floor or Tube amp with load box, I'm most pleased with no cab sim at all - anywhere - and running PC+ in Flat/LFRaw.  To my ear it sounds very much/most like I'm sitting in front of my real (guitar speaker) cabinets.  Actually sounds like both my cabs used together (tonewise that is - we 'are' talking about a 112 after all).  If I'm being honest, it's the first time I've really felt like the Helix amp sims sounded authentic and that my 3 tube amps sounded the way they're intended when using a 'digital' setup for personal, live, playing.  And the bonus is that I don't have to suffer endlessly from option anxiety! (grin)  Never has using the Helix been more simple and straight-forward for me.  It almost makes me feel guilty or something. Thanks again to all!

Thank you so much "PaulWilliamson" for your very helpful reply and I'm pretty sure I agree with your train of thought.  Just for the record, I've got you beat on age (65) and I've forgotten more than you'll ever know about long winded-ness (grin).    In the end, I'm simply going to use whatever settings sound best to me.  But I have one more 'gotta-know' issue that you may/may-not be able to help me with.  I am using the PC+ in two different ways: 1) - with the Helix Floor, and 2) - from a real amp via a speaker cab load box (Torpedo Captor).  Both the Helix (obviously) and the load box have the option to introduce a cab sim into the chain before reaching the PC+.  Is it proper, or not, to apply a cab sim before going to the PC+ in Flat LFRaw mode in order, as you stated, to "= Traditional Guitar Speaker Behavior"?  Is the PC+ still compensating in some way even when in LFRaw?  It makes my head hurt thinking about it but we all know what it sounds like when omitting a cab sim from the chain in every other circumstance.   I've been given two opposite answers from other venues.  Just thought I'd ask in case you had a couple more!

1)   I've been getting a lot of replies from people who are evidently not understanding the simplicity of my question and in turn makes me wonder if they are actually using the Powercab in the manner that they think they are.  I get the more complicated stuff.  My question is 'simple':  What are people/users (including Hindmarsh and Line 6 instructions) meaning by "normal", "amp in the room", and "air moving" - and why do they all have different settings?  I thought the terms meant the same thing.   Check out the following Line 6/Hindmarsh vid. If you skip to 2:24 he plainly explains the settings (flat mode and LF Raw) for achieving "traditional guitar speaker" behavior. Then skip to 2:54 and he plainly explains settings (speaker mode) to achieve "traditional amp in the room experience". What's the difference? I thought they were the same thing.  2)   On the more technical side - I've been advised differently but I'm pretty sure if I'm using Flat mode/LFRaw (which I 'think' is my personal end goal), I still have to put a cab or IR in the Helix chain or it's going to sound horrible - same as before having the PC+ - right? . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7yIZnYeXmQ

Sure you can - but you don't want to.  GR-55 guitar sims, and guitar related effects, suck eggs compared to the Helix.  Not even in the same arena (you'll see).  But by all means use the GR-55's other awesome 'synth' features/effects in conjunction with the Helix in the same sense that you did within the GR-55 itself.  Doing so is especially awesome in a stereo setup.  I won't bother going into detail on 'how' since you don't even have the unit yet, but rest assured, you're in for a treat.   There are a few setup examples on YouTube.  Some are simpler than others. Here's a good one for midi setup:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgK1d4ELkc

1 minute ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Not to poo poo an idea but .... why? It won't improve sound and at best just saves you two blocks.

 

I don't hear many complain about DSP limits on full Helix.

Let me add to the list of DSP complainers then (grin).  I have a huge problem with DSP on my Helix floor when trying to use more than one IR cab - and the top half of my chain is typically pretty simple as I have come to prefer to use snapshot changes in amp gain over using a lot of gain pedals in front of the amp.  The difference between even just 1 cab IR and a stock cab can easily cost you as much as 3 blocks - and if you want 2 IRs or more than one amp sim on the top half of your chain you can forget it (some effect pedals/amps use more DSP than others of course).  I don't have a Powercab yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to being able to use its onboard IR or stock cab to free up my floor Helix chain options.

I see what you mean, but then isn't what you're describing the same as Line 6's existing line of "Spider" amps with an optional  FVB 3 Pro foot controller?  Granted, the Spider amps could use an updating in the quality of their amp modeling to compete with the Helix.  But I still can't imagine why the need for an amp setup other than the Helix equipment you already own in conjunction with a Powercab - unless your talking a beast of an amp.  Even then I would rather have a bigger version of the Powercab instead.

The dream portion of your post is the $200 - $300 part.  The rest exists but is $700-$800.  It's called the Line 6 Powercab/Plus.

What I'm about to say is to the best of my knowledge but could certainly be wrong.  Please someone correct me if I am.  I have the same wish and to my knowledge "Native" will not "sync" to any of the Helix Hardware.  Native is a 'stand-alone' plug-in.  Seems like I read that some were using midi to create a work-around though.  Best thing I know to do (if you want pedal effects in your recording) is to edit your desired tone/preset on the Helix itself, use it as your DAW interface, and play/record live straight into Cubase creating both a wet and a dry audio track (re-amping).  Then you can always insert the Native plug-in into your dry signal audio track and duplicate and/or manipulate all the 'other' settings used on the floor hardware.  But effects made by the "pedals" themselves (wah/expression/etc) will always be part of the originally recorded dry signal track and unchangeable.   Apologies in advance if I'm totally off-base on this.

Not sure exactly what style of music you're playing, but I like this one for a starting point.  Especially where he talks about EQ technique in getting rid of problem areas without affecting the whole tone.  You'd also have to search/watch another of his videos to learn about what he's doing with the split in signal.  He's made a template using that in his basic setup.  Happy New Year! 

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On 5/25/2017 at 9:34 AM, davidmorisset said:

(Version 2 should have an on/off switch. Other than this issue, I love not having to run a cable to my pedal board. Nothing better than being able to play on the 1st floor with my rig in the basement. Surprises the hell out of everyone.)

 

I've been using the partial plug-in method (or just laying it aside) since I've had mine.  It's my (limited) understanding of electronics in general, that if the plug is inserted into the guitar, base (whatever} to the point that the tip/ring circuit is completed - that the battery is going to drain/bleed slowly and no on/off switch, firmware, or anything else is going to change that unless the switch is not on the base but on the plug itself.  Said plug would need to actually/physically break the circuit and not just stop a communication signal from being transferred as it already does with a 4 minute timer.  There's a BIG difference.  But as I said, my understanding of electronics is limited so please correct me if I'm wrong. 

On 10/22/2018 at 4:09 AM, jbuhajla said:

There is a global setting for delays that make time transitions “transparent” that gets rid of the glitchy sounds when changing time. Can’t recall what it is off the top of my head. 

Wow!  I've been having the same problem.  This is not a little problem - it's a HUGE one.  And trails on/off doesn't work.  If this global setting is correct, and I can find it,  it's going to be wonderful.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  This does cause me to have one question though.  If there is a global setting to make delay transitions "transparent", can anyone think of a single reason why you would want it to be otherwise?

I hate to burst what is evidently your very sensitive bubble, but I've got 2 or 3 organ patches that I downloaded way before Glenn made his.  And I bought Glenn's also.  95% of the patches uploaded to Custom Tone are, like music itself, spin-offs.   I'm sorry that you thought that your patch was your claim to fame, but I guess your gonna have to go back and strive for a larger, more important goal.  Maybe your young or something, but as an elder who has been through a few experiences, I can't begin to describe how petty your complaint is.  I really am sorry for being mean but my reply is simply a response to a mean spirited OP.

3 hours ago, datacommando said:

Hey, it’s not a problem. When you are new to something, and are unsure of what to do, the best thing to do is to ask. Let’s try to clarify things.

Wow! So many thanks for your time and for all the very useful information.  Looks like I have some considerations to make.  The Helix floor unit has been wonderful, especially for live play, but based upon the education I just received (and the smaller desktop footprint that would result) I definitely wish I had the rack unit and foot controller now .  My live (praise/worship) play days are limited due to my age and some changes that are coming at my church.  I may consider selling my floor unit and Steinberg and just do it.  In the meantime, I'll be experimenting and learning how to use the Helix I have in the ways that you have suggested.  Definitely sounds like the right way to go to me.  

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but updates are not going to fix it.  It's mechanical failure.  Mine quit working a long time ago.  I chose not to send it in even though it was still under warranty because I couldn't part with it that long and I could still use the toggle. 

17 hours ago, datacommando said:

Now I’m starting to become really confused, particularly about this statement:

Sorry for the confusion - but I think you've got it right though.  The video you posted was very educational and helpful.  Please keep in mind that I'm new to recording and still trying to figure out not only the Helix, but also Cubase, recording equipment, and best setup methods - so I've speaking from the perspective of the little I do know and not the immense pool that is what I don't know.  That said, what I was getting at is not having to use the Helix floor unit in the way you described (and in video), but, for instance, If using an interface other than the Helix (in my case the Steinberg UR28M) I'm thinking you would have to disconnect cabling from one in order to use the other, change your DAW settings, and then back again, etc. - unless of course I could output the Helix signal into the input of my main interface.  I may be mistaken but stacking preamps like that, with their own individual volume levels, doesn't seem like the best of ideas.  Anyway, in a nutshell, I think I'm wishing that the Helix rack foot controller could somehow be used to control Native without having to switch interfaces.  I'm sure that I've baffled you further and for that I apologize.

5 hours ago, datacommando said:

 

I don’t quite understand what you mean by “but also use the helix to control effects in helix native in real time while recording”.  It’s not quite the best way to work with this technology. Native is a complete Helix in software, minus expression pedals.

I think he simply means that, like myself, wants to be able to use the Helix, as an expression pedal and effect changer, in conjunction with Native during recording so that we can use wah, change from clean to distortion, visa-versa, etc.  I think we all understand the blessing of being able to post process the dry signal with native.  But in the creative sense, it's soooo sterile to have to create and record with the exact same tone, effects, and volume (other than guitar knob adjustments on the fly) from start to finish.  In other words, we need control of Native 'while' we're playing.  Am I mistaken in my thought that this is not possible?  For instance, if we want wah in our recording, is automation and auto-wah, during a post processing stage of our dry signal, the only option  we have with Native?

Good question.  Looking forward to hearing what comes of it myself.  I the previous life I used a Boss NS-2 which is worthless in the straight thru mode (as I suspect all noise gates of this level are) but is simply awesome when using its loop function as you described previously.  I have the same problem with the Helix noise gate (the one located within the "input" settings) and would love to see if there's a way to route the Helix chain in a fashion that allows your clean/lower gain signal to pass on through and only effects high gain effects when they are engaged.  I'm thinking this should easily be possible and have some thoughts already but will hold off until I've had a chance to play around with it.  It's definitely going to involve the use of a noise gate in the chain rather than use of the gate located within the "input" setting - which is an on/off - adjustable but "all or nothing" option (I think).

I don't have the new Line 6 "Power Cab Plus" yet but it's definitely next on my shopping list (2 of them actually).  But I've been very satisfied with the LIne 6 Stagesource speakers for as long as Helix has been available.  The only thing I've heard that I like better is Mission Engineering's FRFR cabs but they cost x3 as much as everything else.  Whatever you get - make sure the enclosure is 'wood' and not plastic.

I think you'll find both the Helix and Native to be light years ahead of Pod.  But I am new to recording myself and am anxious to hear what others have to say concerning live control of effects.  To my knowledge, the only control you have over your dry signal while using Native is the volume/tone knobs and pup switch on the guitar - and that the Helix board won't control what's happening in Native - and you have to depend upon automation 'after' creating your dry signal to switch between effects or control them.  This is totally counter intuitive to me (in the creativity sense).  Anyway, I hope I'm wrong and as I said - am anxious to see what others have to say.

I'm assuming that the OP is coming from U.S.  Yes this is probably due to the new tariffs.  But it would be less than genuine of us in the U.S. to feel slighted since many other countries have been crying the blues for having to pay more than us for the same products for decades.  Sometimes even for products that are made in their own country.  Now maybe in the years to come things will 'segway' to the point that we  (U.S.) will be making our own stuff.

Absolutely and sooooo much more (that is if I understand your question correctly).

Not sure if this works without trying it but ...  Put Helix into Global Stomp/Snapshot mode.  Put your Synth in your chain where desired but don't include the synth in any snapshot.  Then assign the synth to a stomp switch that you can turn on and off while in any snapshot (I think).  Only problems with this would be that you have to remember to turn synth back off when switching to another snapshots (unless you want it to stay on) and also you would have to assign a different synth to a different stomp switch for every difference in synth setting you want to use.  (I think)