jrrjr68

I've watched a lot of videos... and this one is really good IMO.
{Not my video or claiming it to be I just thought it was interesting and covered a lot of bases with the HELIX} 

Hope you get something out of it.. covers a lot of functionality of the Helix. 
Good stuff. 

ok so after reading a few replies I had an idea and I'm fairly sure I've narrowed down the problem, which is a specific type of setting on the amp model. I typically run my bass and middle at zero which is demonstrated in the following pic https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypdg86eyr89vvwt/Screen%20Shot%202017-07-24%20at%207.16.43%20PM.png?dl=0 . I decided to change the bass and middle setting because i read somewhere that these act Pre gain or at least before the power amp and kind of act like a filter for the distorted sound before it hits the power amp. I changed the setting to this https://www.dropbox.com/s/v9pbcq661dzb5ee/Screen%20Shot%202017-07-24%20at%207.17.36%20PM.png?dl=0 I had this patch with the bass and middle at 5 going for a solid 2 hours with no noticeable change at all. i reverted my setting back to the previous with the bass and middle at 0 and guess what? the bug cam back... after an hour the patch was completely dead, so for lollipop and giggles i moved the bass slider slightly and the patch came right back to life. It seems there is a bug in having the bass and or middle at zero position, I'll try again with it at a very low setting and see what happens but i think this is where the bug is. I think this would it would explain why most people don't have a problem with it or don't notice it?

Good troubleshooting. Very interesting. I generally cut back my mids and bass... but then again I run a dual rectifier so I probably wouldn't have noticed.

But props for investigating the matter it sounds like you at least have a handle on it. 

Good call, I would never have thought of suggesting that. 

whenever my tone sounds like crap.. I spend about an hour trying other things before I think of that but generally that's the case. 

It doesn't happen often but when it does it's like the OP described.. fine for about a half hour or so then turns to mush. 

Active pickups? New battery perhaps.

This is only a guess, but here's what might be happening. Sag controls how the power amp responds to being pushed hard. As the amp is pushed, it puts more demand for current from the power supply. When pushed harder, the power supply voltage might "sag" because it can't keep up with the demand. How a power supply reacts to demand depends on the amount of DC resistance in the power transformer, how much iron there is in the core, whether a tube rectifier or diodes are used for rectification, and the size of the filter capacitors.

 

Power supply sag is manifest by a drop in voltage on the filter caps as they discharge in order to meet demand. Then the caps recharge from the rest of the power supply and the amplitude comes back up. At very high sag settings in Helix, you might be getting into a situation where the power amp is essentially oscillating as it tries to keep up with the demand and the filter caps are constantly discharging and recharging.  The time constant of this oscillation is determined by the filter cap values and voltage drop resistors.

 

If that's the case, then simply reducing the sag will eliminate the problem. But let's think a bit more about what you're tying to accomplish with high sag settings. Sag generally has little to do with amp tone, and more to do with feel. Sag essentially results in a unique kind of compression that unlike a compressor in front of an amp, still works even when the power amp is clipping. This is the magic of sag. Higher sag settings will result in more compression. This can have an impact on pick transients and rapid djent playing since the compression attack and release can cut off pick attack. Generally metal tones require amps with power supplies that don't have much sag. Blues tones typically benefit from more sag as that playing style works better with power amp compression.

 

So why do you think you need such high sag settings?

great, and informative answer.. thank you for the info on this

 

I know this has been commented on in other threads, but I want to reiterate and give my point of view.

 

One of the characteristics of this device is to imitate the sound of the original amplifiers point by point, its characteristics, its advantages and its problems have been imitated.

 

But when I use a half-gain or a clean amp and I add a distortion pedal, I can hear some sort of shirt surrounding the main sound.

An artificial coating that sounds digital and does not look exactly like the wake that real amplifiers leave.

 

It is a bit ugly effect that is hidden in high gain amplifiers or when you are playing very often and fast, or over music and with other instruments.

 

It is heard by any of the available outputs including USB.

 

I leave here a few tests that I have done to listen to them and tell me if it is what is expected of Helix, and I am freaking out.

Or is it true that digital distortion is … waiting for it to be solved in a new firmware update.

 

Thanks in advance  ;)

 

https://soundcloud.com/wabicabanias/pruebas-helix

 

hello sir. 

It may sound crazy.. but ry to leave distortion gain at 0 or just above slightly.. back off gain on amp to like 5 -6.0.

I have found the distortion adds a little punch regardless if gain is turned up or not.. and for me.. what sounds right in monitors {more gain} didn't sound right in recording. 

Two cleaner guitar tracks panned lefft and right combined will add more gain in the end and can blend them nicely to play well with each other. 

No one.. No one at all. 

Except Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, 3 Doors Down, Periphery, Deftones..  {insert endless list of bands here}.

Since when do bass players call the shots anyways unless you're Kool and the gang

Eliminate the mandatory Tap Tempo and Mode buttons.  Eats up real estate and I don't like that at all.  I don't use tap tempo and the mode button should be optional as well.  Hope they change this as it's silly to have so much flexibility, yet neuter the Helix so bad(IMO).

Opinions are like A55holes... everyone has one.  I like the Chicago Bulls, you might like The Cavs?  I like milk chocolate, you like dark chocolate.. who cares what chocolate either of us like?!    

 

I've owned all 3 and here's my observations..  To say it's not in the same league as the Kemper/AXE FX doesn't mean jack sh1t really.  Comes down to how you use it.  Devin Townsend uses all 3!! 

 

Kemper  =  amazing for what it is, but not the most user friendly.  The profiles can be good but that depends on how good the actual profile is. THIS ALSO DEPENDS on if whether you rely on profiles for your core sound/core tone..  

 

Axe FX/AX8  =  fractal still lead the way in terms of amp/cab sims. They are better.  But how much better is the question?  Comes down to how well you can dial in a patch and make it sound awesome. 

 

Helix floor  =  love it.  Sold my first and now I'm on my second and it's staying this time.  The easy of use, the ability to dial in patches and make adjustments on the fly is what makes this a stand-out. From that point of view it cannot be beaten.  The Helix has to be the ultimate gigging tool.  

 

With regards to the AX8  vs  Helix theory.  Sure, the AX8 has that edge given that it's had MANY firmware updates over its journey and the Helix has had minimal in comparison, however imagine you and I played in the same band, and we're both guitarists.  Doesn't matter whether we play hi-gain/low-gain/blues/clean etc etc.. Do you think people in the crowd will really be able to say "oh that guy's AX8 totally kick's that other guy's Helix..."  No chance. NO CHANCE.  Same with the Kemper.  I've had 2 Kempers and am in no hurry for a third.  As a player that plays in a gigging band, it's important for me to have a seamless and easy to setup rig that gives me everything I need.  Both the Helix and AX8 do that for me.  But, my Helix integrates and works better with my 2 amps than my AX8 does.. Is this starting to make sense or help?! 

 

Ultimately, it also comes down to how you intend to use it.  The Helix, in my experience, integrates incredibly well with other gear/amps etc which is important to me.  It has the built-in exp pedal that other modellers don't offer (that I'm aware of).  It's so damn easy to use and that alone is a huge standout feature.  With the Fractals, you could spend HOURS tweaking things which is fine, but you eventually spend less time playing..  <_<

 

My suggestion.. sure, watch the clips but take the opinions with a pinch of salt.  If I were you, I would work out what is important to you, work out how you think you will use it, then base your decisions on that.  That's what I would do. 

 

Good luck

Great answer.

I want them all really lol .

However.. I am pretty darn happy with the Helix.. so I've saved about 4K so far. 

So far I spend the extra dough on a nice Jackson 7 string and going to get a set of powered monitors and try Helix stand alone.

It's pretty darn sweet.. I don't feel like I am missing anything really but I haven't tried Frax or Kemps.

And I might add.. the interface, and versatility is what sold me on it. The amps are good.. some are superb.

I feel it's a litte more blues friendly but I can get some brutal high gain tomes te more I experiment the more I dig it. 

I say pull the plug and get one or the other you have a trial period to check it out. But beware.. I had 30 days to try Helix and it took most of them before I was convinced. 

I'm not taking it back. Ever. 

Philip Bynoe uses Helix primarily. 

 

Primarily.. with an Aguilar 751 Bass Head.

Let me know how they work out for you.   I actually just got home from work and I'm putting the L3T's through their paces in reference mode - think I'm getting really close - they sound absolutely monstrous.   My wife even questioned whether I actually sold my tube amp or not lol.

hahaa! it may just be a matter of tweaking everything enough to taste

With respect, not in my experience.  With a dual rec, if you're on Ch. 3 Modern, with the tube bias set as "silicon diode" playing on a guitar with EMGs, look out.  It's got bite, very, very tight low end.  EMGs usually tighten up everything, but I just don't have that experience here.

 

That's why most high gain amps are good with EMG's on their own, without the use of a dirt pedal that takes away from the warmth and makes the sound tinny.

I thought the same thing. My dual rectifier will crush with no pedals at all. 

I have to add distortion pedals, EQ, if not compressors, more EQ now.. it's maddening.

And I haven't even tried to play it live yet  

Check these babies out. I've been hearing some good things about them. 
I am probably going with a 12-15" speaker because of drop tuning.. but at any rate Seismic will also do custom builds. 

• $489.99 PAIR!!!!
  :0

https://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/products/powered-10-inch-coaxial-monitors

"where raw tone and feedback are just as important with the amp as it is with the guitar playing. "

Again a great point. I haven't tried the helix live yet but I was certainly hoping that if I had a few powered monitors I would get the feedback I do from my dual rectifier.

It is kind of an issue in the studio for me now.. I may have to bring in my real amp for some solo stuff.. I'm still trying to capture that. 

" But what really gets me close to what I'm used to (and I've been playing over 25 years with a traditional tube amp on stage that is mic'd to front of house) - is setting the L3T's in electric guitar mode and doing away with a IR or Cab block.   I get sounds closed to what I'm used to for my high gain "channels".   

 

Interesting.. so you have to disable the cab sims on the helix to get it to sound right? kind of defeats the purpose of the FRFR speakers.

Sounds like a bit of a learning curve for that as well.. I have been considering FRFR monitorsfor a while but the L3's are a bit salty I dunno about all that

From what I understand.. the new mesas are grounded in between switches so that causes a problem with the way the helix controls the amp.  Helix uses open collector transistor which is not compatible. 
I'd say don't throw away your footswitch just yet. 

If you can make it sound good at home no reason you can't plug it into a PA and get the same results. It's the same thing only louder lol
I haven't used the HELIX at a gig yet.. but I'm definitely going to be spending some time tweaking it in with our PA before I ever attempt that. 
Worst possibly scenario I take my amp too and run helix to FOH and mic the boogie. 
That had amazing results with the HD500x.. I really can't wait to start experimenting further but for now I am tracking. 
I've been splitting my signal after the amp and putting a cab on top and back off mic a bit, then put IR on the bottom.. it seemed to level things out a bit to my ears.
When I started recording my presets I hated the sound I was hearing.. then I started dialing in the Helix along with the entire mix and it changed things a lot and I am very happy.
I don't know what kind of FX you use.. but my chain was simplistic really.. so plugging line 6 straight into my amp always worked well for me and eliminated my hush units and EQ's in my rack. Since your loop doesn't work maybe try that aproach?
It took time to dial that in too. what works at home doesn't work with my amp.. I eventually started backing off the gain on my head and using the models and L6 distortion and blended that with my boogie. Hoping to eliminate all amps and cabs and go with in ears.. maybe buy one of those L3's.. I dunno. So many options,, so little bread 

HAhaaa... I dunno.. I hear things from all the different products I like.. if you can afford all of them why not

I own and use both equally...  Helix is usually for church and gigs I want a minimal setup for.

Kemper is when I want to Cadilac mode it and don't care about the extra pedal and head unit.

 

I slightly prefer the amps I have in my Kemper, but it's mostly a wash once you learn to tweak Helix and make tones.

Effects slightly favor Helix.

 

They're both awesome units and if you can afford both, it's really worth it!

Which one would you say produces best recording results? 

May have been said.. but moving the mic back gives a nice full sound. then add a little reverb to taste.. ba da boom ba da bing... 
amp in a room .

to add to that.. I've been trying a mixture of IR's and cabs.. before split, after split.. after amp...every way sounds different. 
It's almost like EQ'ing going through the options. I've been pulling up the working file and dialing in things to that. 
It's like pre-mastering.. I love it

I dunno.. 
I'm just thankful for the DI recording option because you can change anything anytime you want and experiment until you go crazy. 
 

Having come from a Kemper to a Helix I have some thoughts. Keep in mind, I've only had the Helix for a couple of days while I had the Kemper for 5 years. Right out of the gate, I was disappointed in the Helix tone wise. Kemper is really plug in play. Try a profile, if you like it great, if not move on. Most of the user made profiles sound pretty bad, with the exception of a few. So yes, you need to buy profiles usually if you want a great sound. My favorite profile was the AC Morgan 20 which was a free profile and I played on that profile for 5 years. That's kind of why I let my Kemper go. I only need one tone with a lot of effects.

 

The Helix has to be dialed in. It definitely takes more work, however the tones are in there. To say that one box is better than the other is pointless. It's taken me 2 days to dial in a great sound and to get to know the Helix. The routing and effect capability of the Helix is just really top notch. Very sophisticated yet intuitive. I think both units are great. One thing I really love about the Helix that I didn't care for with the Kemper are the dirt pedals. Really really good on the Helix. I'm a huge fan of the chains in the Helix as well. So far I'm happy with Helix. I'm certainly hoping for a more sophisticated IR management system though. Thats the one thing that's pretty ugly with the Helix. Not a huge deal though.

Well said.. that pretty much covers it.

I've decided even if I DO get something else the HELIX will be controlling it. /

But for now... I was running my Boogie dual rec. Half stack with HD500.. ran pedal to FOH.. and had amp for reference. 

I like this so much I am probably going to do the L3 or whatever the Line6 speaker deal is with the built in mixer.. etc. It's a no brainer. 

I only need a few tones.. clean.. maybe effects.. blah blah.. dirty nasty, clean nasty, and solo w/wah and delays.. this thing is really fun to play with and experiment.

Any tone you DON'T like.. can be removed. Unlike the previous releases. 

There are a lot of tools, and pedal combinations that can get virtually any tone.

I've added a few OWNHAMMMER IR's..still trying things out. But overall I feel it's well worth the money and can't see myself without this pedal

And no line 6 isn't paying me to say that

well.. I went to the store to buy a Kemper.. instead picked up the Helix because a well trusted rep informed me unless you buy the pro profiles I'd be disappointed.
Decided to give this a try and haven't looked back. 
I've had doubts.. but mostly in my ability to set it up properly.. after hours of experimentation I am rather pleased. 
But yes to each his own is right. 
 

$30 bucks

https://www.amazon.com/Flambeau-Outdoors-Tactical-Case-Large/dp/B00C3MFDKK/ref=sr_1_102?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1494990596&sr=1-102&keywords=Tactical+Gun+Case

Nice! What model is that, and how much does it weigh (the case by itself)? Quick googling found one that are a lot bigger inside than a Helix, like 37" long.

inside dimensions are 12" on the bottom and tapers up to nearly 13"  X 36" bottom to 36 3/4" .

It leaves just enough room for when I get the foam filler I plan to trace and cut out spots for my cables and additional pedals but the foam is salty. 

I'm not sure on the retail fr the case this was a garage sale special so probably around $5.00 

PLANO GUN GUARD is as close to a model as I can find.

I found this one on Amazon for 68. It's a little bigger... but that may not be a bad thing.. mine is kind if snug in there.. I'd rather have a little more padding. 

Like they cut out for the gun... that's what I am talking about..

https://www.amazon.com/Plano-Weather-Tactical-Case-42-Inch/dp/B00E2217I6/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_200_tr_img_3/147-9054490-5880610?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0SPR1P4BD169RXEGD95A