HonestOpinion

5 hours ago, ucnick said:

Anyone?

Found these listed by Line6 here

"HX Stomp XL

1. Foot switches C + D performs a factory reset while pressing on holding boot-up. (Resets Globals, Presets, IRs).

2. Pressing and Holding down the "Page >" Button while powering up will put the HX into update mode. This update mode is helpful if the update is interrupted, and the HX Stomp will not boot properly. You will see a blank screen (no visual feedback on the display)."

Don't own the XL but maybe it is telling that https://helixhelp.com/tips-and-guides/universal/reset-options doesn't have any reset options for the XL yet. My guess is that the next firmware revision or a future one will work more in and/or document them. Might be something additional there already that a call to Line6 or a posted question on TGP might be able to shed some light on.  I would have expected the reset options to be similar to the HX Stomp but there are those extra switches so maybe not. If the above options are not sufficient or not working have you tried the combinations for the HX Stomp? Not that I am recommending that but I doubt you'll cause any harm as long as you have backups.

3 hours ago, Bobbypols said:

Fair enough,

 

Its the looper that is provided with the helix lt.  Setting it up as an effect.  Not an external looper.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Are you able to successfully get presets without a looper to play through your PA? How about to a monitor/amp?

I would take a look at the settings for my output block, double-check that my monitor or PA is connected to the correct LT output, and think about swapping out the usual suspects like cables.  Looking at your original post I am now wondering if the issue here is your PA settings?  For example does a microphone or instrument work through the PA channel you are using for the LT? Another troubleshooting step might be to try testing the same output and cable you use to your PA to an amp instead. That might at least help you isolate whether the problem is your PA settings or no output signal from the LT.  Note: make sure phantom power is off on your PA.

Seeing that you are using the internal looper the first thing I might test is with nothing else connected but my monitor. Create a simple blank/new preset with nothing but an amp/cab in the path. Make sure that works properly to your amp. Now add a looper block. Is there still only output to the headphones?

Btw, are you getting output to your monitor/amp when you are not using the looper?  Is it possible that you are getting a very low output signal to your other outputs and cranking the headphone output such that it only appears that the signal is limited to the headphones? If so there might be a problem upstream in your preset's block levels or routing. 

Another test might be to use one of the factory presets, test to make sure you are getting decent levels at your monitor/amp and then just add a looper to the factory preset.

If none of these PA settings or hardware or preset/routing issues are the problem I would probably proceed to doing a global reset and/or reapplying the firmware upgrade. 

On 4/3/2021 at 5:05 PM, Bobbypols said:

Hi guys,

 

I can only get my looper to play back through headphones and not my p.a.  any suggestions on how to get it to go through the p.a.?

 

Thanks in advance.

As rd2rk mentioned you need to provide more information about your preset and how you are cabled up. Are you using the internal looper on the LT or an external looper pedal?  Providing your preset will help others here to troubleshoot the issue, particularly if you are using the LT's FX loop with an external looper pedal.

Make sure your output block is set to "Multi" or whatever specific output is cabled to the PA, e.g. "XLR".  I would not use the headphone output to the PA although you can.

On 4/1/2021 at 7:30 PM, zappazapper said:

...

 

Anyway, some observations:

• Out of all the possible configurations, the one that sounds the least like plugging straight into the amp is the X3L without the reamp box. I wasn't imagining it. Besides the obvious level mismatch (way more gain), there is something else going on frequency wise that you can't miss
• Using the X3L with a reamp box sounds exactly like my amp
• The Helix using the Line setting without the reamp box sounds like the X3L without the reamp box - more gain, and "screamy"
• The Helix using the Instrument setting without the reamp box sounds better than the Line setting because the gain is now comparable but there is definitely something different frequency wise, and it's easy to tell because it feeds back easier even though it's almost exactly the same amount of gain
• The Helix using the Instrument setting with the reamp box results in noticeably less gain, but frequency-wise sounds the same as plugging straight into the amp...  it just sounds like I turned the gain down
• The Helix using the Line setting with the reamp box sounds exactly like my amp

...

I have no where near the expertise that the electrical engineers weighing in here bring to the table but when I look at your observations above regarding your sound with the reamp box it looks to me like this could be more about what signal level your amp is ultimately getting hit with. Is it possible impedance may be playing a negligible role?

18 hours ago, 5mafre5br said:

1) HX Edit, I want my wah pedal to be initially on, so I dont have to press the pedal toe to turn it on.  How do I do that? 

 

Just save preset/snapshot with the wah block active.

18 hours ago, 5mafre5br said:

 

2) How can I set the level to be louder at the lower frequencies (heel down)?   I dont know how to do controller assign, so detailed instructions would be helpful. 

 

You didn't say which HX device you have. On the Helix do the following:

1. Create wah and volume blocks and make sure both are active(lit) then highlight/select the Volume block
2. Press the  "≡" button (Note: Make sure your Volume block is selected first per step #1)
3. Press Controller Assign
4. Set the parameter 'Controller' = "EXP Pedal 1" (if your wah block is assigned to "EXP Pedal 1")
5. Set 'Min Value' = 100%,  Set 'Max Value' = 0%  (notice you are reversing the default values, also, if you don't want the volume to go all the way to zero in the toe-up position or to max out at the toe-down position then adjust the Min/Max Value settings accordingly)
6. Save your preset

Note: You can edit the assignments further in HX Edit or on the device as needed if you decide to get the toe switch involved.

2 hours ago, brue58ski said:

I don't know if you've heard this but Jimi thought Terry was one of the best guitarists. I think he even might have said Terry was better than him.

Yep, I've heard that echoed in interviews with surviving members of Chicago. I tend to believe he said it even though for me Hendrix is still the more innovative of the two. No need to compare them though, whether just hearsay that becomes the stuff of legend or an actual endorsement, Terry Kath was one extremely talented guitarist !  The solo from "25 or 6 to 4" is one of my all-time favorites.

POLO!

6 hours ago, ian999 said:

What are TJ blocks, i.e. what does TJ stand for?

Source please. Where did you see this mentioned and in what context?

13 hours ago, zappazapper said:

Whenever a new suggestion comes up, one of the questions I ask myself is whether such an idea would have a negative effect on some other existing feature. For example, there's often suggestions to "update" the amp models, like use whatever innovations L6 has developed since the initial release of the Helix until now to make the original roster of amp models sound "better" or more accurate or however you want to say it. And that sounds like a good idea, except that users have built Presets based on those possibly "less accurate" models and for better or for worse, they expect their Presets to sound exactly the same as they did before an update. So apart from adding "Version 2" models of amps and keeping the "Version 1" models in the roster, I don't think "updating" the amp models is a good idea because of the negative effects it creates.

 

As far as @marshalsea's idea goes, I really can't think of a downside. I think anything that helps users to modify Presets to sound the way they want, as quickly and easily as possible, is a good idea. @datacommando you make a good point about establishing a standard workflow designed to avoid the situation that @marshalsea is describing, but there was a reason why L6 decided to combine discrete Amp and Cab blocks into a single Amp+Cab block (to free up slots), and I think that when they did that they should have considered the downsides to such a feature, and I think this is a legitimate downside. I've found myself in the exact same situation where I literally have to grab a pen and a piece of paper and write settings down so I can add a second Cab block, or turn a mono chorus into a stereo chorus. If there's a downside to adding a quick, easy way to make what should be a simple modification to a Preset, I'd love to hear it.

You might have to add another layer of DSP calculation and management to pull some of this off. That may be why you don't see some of these proposed modifications, at least not yet. It might be trickier in some cases than others to allow certain kinds of on the fly changes to blocks if the change pushes the preset over the maximum DSP available. Stereo blocks for example use more DSP than mono.  I suppose you could just gray out any option that would kick over the DSP limit. 

1 hour ago, Gone2Gig said:

I think your analogy of the iPhone is very apropos. The iPhone revolutionized not only cell phones, but also the way we consume music, video, take and use photos, etc, etc.. It broke down many boundaries and opened the door for so many new uses for a person device... even recording music. Many manufacturers are riding on the back of those innovations today and competing head on with iPhone. Yet for all their success, lack of a user-based file management system has not only kept them from consideration for many consumers, but has also been a feature requested by their own user base since the beginning. Obviously this goes much deeper due to their closed architecture, but they finally got around to building one (and it's still not great!). 

 

Having an incredible modeler like Helix, even with all of its great features (that I am yet to skim the top on), for a musician where live performance is almost the entire reason for owning any gear, having limited support for accessing all of these great sounds and features quickly and easily live--without having to make all kinds of compromises (like one preset per song as a workaround appears to be from my reading without having hands on yet ), seems a bit like owning your favorite high dollar sports car and only ever sitting in the driveway listening to the stereo because when you want to drive it down the road and enjoy all that's been included in it, you can't find or get it into the right gears! They are in there but without the mechanisms in place to access them as you need. Sure you can drive around in first all day or find a way to get it down the road, but not in a very pretty way. Lol.

 

Before the iPhone, if a user was wanting to listen to music or take pictures, many cell users might have suggested 'if you want to do that, go buy a camera or an audio playback device.' Especially if the cell phone they had wouldn't roam correctly. First things first! Thank heaven that Apple had the vision for innovation that they had and refused to compromise! We are all reaping the rewards today whether using an iPhone or another device.

 

Guitarists have been creating workarounds since the beginnings of the electric guitar for live usage, and other applications. We are so used to doing it that it's simply become a way of life for almost all of us. I really want to use a lot of what Helix is offering. I just opened the box on my first one! But if I can't find a way to use it live in my application without having to use too many workarounds or not be able to access what I can create within it quickly in a live environment, what's the point of owning one for me unless I can justify its cost with some other use?

 

I realize it has MANY uses in many applications.. Mine just happens to be live and evolve around songs with extreme sound changes in many of  those songs. I'm trying to find a way to make it work for me. Probably no big deal to anyone else if I can't find that. I really appreciate all those that have pitched in with great suggestions and otherwise, especially those that are really trying to help, even in the workaround space. Great things come into existence because someone asked.. How can this be done or why can't it be?! 

 

I also realize that even playing live music with others musicians is not the end all it once was.  It's great that people can do more with music creation all by themselves in their home studio or even just on their iPhone! Lol. Helix appears to be trying to appeal to a very broad audience and being quite successful at it. It really seems to a spectacular platform.

 

I will stay tuned as I start to get my hands dirty now.

 

 

 

 

My focus was more on improving setlist/playlist management, editing, and storage.  I'm pretty satisfied with switching at this point.

On the whole I have no problems with switching between song parts. I think you will find that snapshots will take care of the changes required for most songs. They have spillover and instant switching. If you want to switch presets instantly for songs that require it(very few and far between for the stuff I play) there is now the global option that allows you to have instant switching between presets. It just halves your DSP so your block and routing options will be more limited.

From the manual:

1. In the Global Settings > Preferences menu, set Preset Spillover to "On." (SHORTCUT: Hold ACTION and press HOME.) A dialog appears, reading "Remove Path 2 to enable preset spillover?"
2. Press Knob 6 (OK).
3. Press HOME. Path 2 has disappeared! You may now switch presets to your heart's delight with true spillover but note that if Preset A is still spilling over into Preset B (say one of its delay blocks' feedback is making it self-oscillate), switching to Preset C will abruptly cut off Preset A.
4. To return to normal operation with two paths, turn Preset Spillover back to "Off". (SHORTCUT: Hold ACTION and press HOME again.) A dialog appears, reading "The preset must be reloaded. All unsaved changes will be lost!" So if you've made changes to the preset, be sure to save it before turning Spillover off.
5. Press Knob 6 (OK).

1 hour ago, datacommando said:

Hi again,

 

This is your second 5 years old thread resurrection for the Easter weekend - this could become a zombie thread apocalypse!

These topics eat brains!

2 hours ago, johnnyvlee said:

You guys should talk about what lube you used for this, or more importantly what lube others should NOT use for this?

Dry lubes seem like a safer bet in general. They have a tendency to gather less dirt and dust and stay put very well.  When mine started to squeak I used the one at the link below and one application(just loosened things up a bit with the big Allen wrench, applied, and retightened, did not have to open chassis) has lasted for years and still going.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C17R7Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Similar to the OP I have also been requesting and hoping for a better method of song management for years now. I also see this as one of the important areas of functionality to incorporate into a device intended for live performance. It is an area that has been overlooked in the past by many/most of the modelers available. Probably viewed as a minor clerical function unworthy of hardware or development resources, or at least low on the list of priorities. That appears to be changing though(e.g. Headrush and potentially the Quad Cortex) and I hope that Line6 will address it at some point.

The ability to integrate an entire "ecosystem" into the HX architecture is a L6 core competency. At the lower level this applies mostly to things like DSP optimization and hardware integration, e.g. incorporating external pedals/racks into loops, MIDI control, impedance matching, CV triggering, L6 Link, Variax, PowerCab, etc.. At a higher level we start to look at features like streamlined upgrades, backups, preset import/export, UI/UX development, ease of use, modeling accuracy/authenticity, block, snapshot, and preset management, etc.. Song and setlist management deserve more focus along with those other areas of development - the ability to search, sort, swap, and quickly and easily edit presets in one place across ordered setlists.

Perhaps this might include a more sophisticated approach that included virtual pointers to songs that allow a setlist to consume minimal storage rather than containing the presets themselves.  Another option is a (standalone?) setlist manager integrated into HX Edit. I just see more robust setlist/song management as a capability that will eventually be completely standard and expected in any modeler intended to be used live. Without it your modeler might well be considered to be better suited for studio use where setlist management is far less important. I say this realizing many users including myself have gotten fairly able at managing setslists as things stand now but I also see where this could be improved.  Ultimately there are plenty of other features in a modeler that trump good setlist management but it would be ideal to have that as well.

Hate that I am using this as an example but look at the success of Apple products, grossly overpriced IMHO but their knack for appealing design, ease of use, and the level of integration they offer with various hardware and software products has kept them at the front of the pack. Still, if you had an iPhone and it lacked a core function like the capacity to simply and easily manage your phone contacts, you would want that area of functionality bolstered. That is somewhat vaguely analogous to how I view song management.  I would prefer this get addressed before many/most other items on my wishlist.  A wishlist that has shrunk dramatically with so many amazing additions to the firmware over the past few years. COVID19 and the lack of live performance opportunities has probably reduced any sense of urgency for developing setlist/song management but I hope it remains on L6's radar.

3 hours ago, puterio said:

 i brought the tuning down for my guitar half a step using the pitch/synth but when i press the pedal to activate the Wah the tuning goes back to standard 440, please help how can i make the pitch stay in place when i activate the wah?

If you are using the expression pedal toe switch to alternate between wah and pitch wham for example it sounds to me like you may need either a second pitch block detuned a half step that becomes active when you switch to the wah. Or, I suppose, depending on how you were using the pitch wham you could clear the bypass assignment for the pitch wham so it stays active when switching to wah.  Or you could get a Variax :-)

On 3/30/2021 at 11:53 AM, mk1900 said:

Hi,

 

If I need to connect in the two scenarios as below:

 

1. One vocal mic (1/4" jack) and an electric violin (MIDI jack): I need to connect the mic to the Input > L/Mono and violin into the MIDI > IN?

 

2. One vocal mic (1/4" jack) and an electric violin (1/4" jack): I need to connect the mic and violin to Input > L/Mono & Input > R ?

 

Please advise. Thanks in advance.

As MusicLaw mentioned, give it a try, might work great. In the case of the HX Stomp XL, which does not have an XLR input, depending on which mic you are using, adding a mic preamp, small mixer, or LowZ/HighZ impedance transformer might improve the mic's sound. "You’ll also find a studio microphone preamp within the Preamp > Mic category."(from the manual).

On 3/28/2021 at 8:56 AM, line-6-user said:

It would be nice to have a GLOBAL IR loader in Helix Floor affecting only the headphone output.

 

I have managed to calibrate my headphones using a VST plugin and now have an IR which I can load in my DAW when playing with it.  

 

It would be nice to be loading the same IR as a global block in the Helix so to creating new presets while using headphones.

This avoids loading the IR each time I create a preset, and then removing it when NOT using  headphones.

 

What is your opinion on this?

Not sure if you are suggesting being able to load a global IR, if not please ignore the following. The Helix's current architecture is such that if you added a global IR the Helix would have to set aside the DSP for it in every preset. Whether it was active or not.  That is a lot of DSP to set aside. Additionally Line6 would have to redesign the Helix so that it grays out your preset and makes it nonfunctional if kicking in the global IR takes the preset over the maximum available DSP. Seems unlikely that this will ever get added, but you never know.

It might be  more useful to have a global setting that allowed us to route all presets' cab or IR block(s) to any single or combination of outputs. That would make it simple for example to have the cab/IR block active in an XLR out to the PA but bypassed when using the  1/4" output into the front of an amp. Or, in the case you are describing route it only to the headphones. I think there may already be IdeaScale submissions for this.

1 hour ago, rwinking said:

So after a few years of these buttons being available, is there any consensus as to which work the best as far as the touch capacitance, looks, comfort level, etc.?

I know that the Barefoot Buttons cost a couple of dollars more and the screws are on the side for the touch thing with the CEBA having the metal on top. Also the CEBA is held on magnetically?

First time I had actually seen this button option. Thanks for posting! They look great and the translucent design appears to let the LED ring remain nice and visible. The design with the metal insert in the center is potentially the best I have seen for retaining and using the capacitance sensitivity. I am curious as to whether affixing them magnetically is sufficient to keep them from getting lost or kicked off during a show. Also, at $7.99 apiece they are not inexpensive. Very appealing if they work properly though. Hope some folks who have them post their reviews here.

12 hours ago, lline6kronus said:

 

Hey Just Startin,

Did you find a solution for this issue?

 

I followed your advice on going back to 2.82, followed by using the Line 6 updater to take me to 3.01 and reapplying my last backup, which was made before the original update to 3.01, but when I started my Helix floor this morning, it went back to being stuck at "Rebuilding Preset 347"

 

Does anyone know what is preset 347 is?

 

Thanks in advance
 

It still sounds to me like this might be corrected with a global reset, downloading and installing the latest version of HX Edit(3.0.1), and then reinstalling the 3.0.1 firmware.

However if all else fails and you are still able to get back to the 2.8 firmware and make backups successfully I might try something like this. Export preset 28A and then copy a working(rebuilding properly) preset from one of the Factory setlists over the 28A preset in setlist three(the preset that is failing). Create a general backup and also backup all setlists, IRs, and presets individually. You can backup all presets individually at once by highlighting them all and hitting 'Export' in the editor. Export them into directories named after the setlist.

Now download and install HX Edit 3.0.1, and then run the 3.01 firmware update again. If it succeeds and everything rebuilds normally great, if not restart the Helix with FS7 & FS8 depressed(for the Helix Floor). This will reset all the factory and user setlists. Your Helix should now be able to finish the rebuilding process as it will no longer be hitting the problematic preset. After it finishes rebuilding you can attempt to restore your setlists. If the restore of setlist three is still failing you can restore it by skipping the setlist restore for setlist three and instead use the individual presets you made in your prior backups. They can be restored in groups until you narrow down which preset(s) are failing.

On 3/24/2021 at 5:57 PM, zappazapper said:

I've seen quite a few questions on this forum about levels when using 4-cable method. Most of the answers that I've seen have been anecdotal at best, so I'm creating this thread in the interest of providing some objective information on the subject.

 

First off, I'm not an engineer. I am an enthusiast, a hobbyist, who knows what he knows from reading articles, forum posts, and watching YouTube videos, like many of you. As such, many of the techniques that I use and conclusions that I come to might be absolutely wrong. I'm not doing this to prove what I think I know, or to prove to anybody that I know something - I'm doing this because I WANT TO LEARN. If you see erroneous information or an incorrect way of thinking about something, please let me know. But also keep in mind that I don't really value the opinions of other enthusiasts/hobbyists any higher than my own - I would love for a REAL ENGINEER to come on here and set me straight (ie. not a "recording engineer"...  I'm talking about someone who has a university degree in Electrical Engineering or something...  "recording engineers" are actually just technicians - they don't use science to solve problems - they operate devices designed by people who use science to solve problems... rant over).

 

Second, my equipment is not "measurement-grade". I'm using a MOTU 896HD, a "prosumer"-grade sound interface. I will attempt, to the best of my ability, to demonstrate the limitations of this device as a measurement tool. Also, as per @DunedinDragon's advice, I downloaded RoomEQWizard (REW) as an audio testing platform. In all honesty, there's too much going on there for me to really understand completely, but I think I have enough of a handle on it to use it for my purposes. Again, if anybody has any advice on how to better use this program, I'm all ears.

 

So basically what I'm attempting to do is figure out what the correct settings and levels should be when using 4CM. Before I go any further, I'll fully concede that the actual data and conclusions that I come up with are really only ever going to apply to MY AMP - a Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber+ 1x12" combo - for various reasons. First, it's a tube amp, and as we all know, no two tube amps, even within the same model, are really the same. Second, not every amp model is designed the same (duh). For instance, the MASTER VOLUME on my amp is post-EFFECTS RETURN. On some amps, it is pre-EFFECTS RETURN. The major difference between these types of amps as it relates to 4CM is which control is used to set the actual LOUDNESS of the amp. In my case, I would use the MASTER VOLUME on my amp, and the VOLUME on the multi-fx sets the level going into the EFFECTS RETURN of the amp. In the other case, the MASTER VOLUME on the amp (I think?) would set the level of the signal being fed to the EFFECTS RETURN of the multi-fx, while the VOLUME of the multi-fx is what one would use to set the loudness. Anyway, the point is that what I'm really trying to do here is start a conversation about ways that a typical user can use his or her own equipment to do a little investigation into how their equipment actually works, not necessarily provide hard and fast answers, because there's too many variables.

 

Ok, so let's talk about my interface.

• MOTU 896HD
• 24 bit...  up to 192 kHz sample rate (I've never gone higher than 48kHz)
• 8 Neutrik XLR/1/4" combo jacks for inputs, each with a sensitivity selector switch (LINE/+4/MIC) and a trim pot
• 8 XLR jacks for outputs, each with a sensitivity selector (-10/+4)

Nothing special.

 

Anyway, I first wanted to test the interface itself, just to see if there was anything crazy bad going on there. I connected an XLR cable between an output and an input and set the sensitivity switches on both to +4. A quick summary of what REW does - it outputs a frequency sweep to the desired output, then analyzes the signal coming back into the desired input, and displays this analysis on a number of graphs. The first step to doing a test is to set levels - REW sends a few seconds of pink noise to the desired output and then measures the level coming back. Anyway, I had assumed that since both the output and input of my interface were set to +4, that the level at the output (-12 dB) would be the same at the input, but at the input I get -14.8 dB. I've tried different outputs, different inputs, different cables, but I always get -14.8 dB. But here's the thing - ultimately I'm not going to use balanced connections in my test, because my amp only has unbalanced jacks. This is only to test the interface in as ideal a situation as possible. And also, even if the levels at the output and the input don't match, it's not important that they do, only that I know what the level coming back to the input should be.

 

So anyway, here are the frequency response, phase, and distortion plots for this first test -

The top red line in the first graph is frequency response. I'd say that's pretty flat, especially in the audible range. No issues there.

The second red line is the phase. Again, pretty good in the audible range.

The light brown line in the second graph is the same as the top red line in the first graph - the frequency response.

The dark brown line is the noise floor and the grey line is the distortion (THD). For whatever reason this program doesn't put the legend that I see in the program, which lets you see the value at a chosen point on the graph - the point is, the distortion never gets above 0.005% THD, and at any rate, it's barely more than the noise floor, which is inaudible.

 

OK so the second test I did is with an XLR > 1/4" TS cable connected between the output and input of my interface, because like I said, my amp doesn't have any balanced connections, so whatever is going on with a balanced signal doesn't really apply to testing my guitar rig; it was only useful to test the interface itself in as ideal conditions as possible. Basically I'm doing this test to get a target level at the input, and to make sure the frequency response, phase, and distortion are still in pretty good shape. 

 

The level I got at the input was -14.6 (I thought it would be significantly lower, but hey), and here are the graphs -

No major changes between balanced or unbalanced connections, and no major problems in either than would affect the results of testing another piece of gear. Good. And now I know my target level at the input should be around -14.6 dB.

 

Ok so now what I want to do is test the power amp of my amp. The theory here is that if I have the output of a multi-fx plugged into the EFFECTS RETURN of my amp, with all the effects bypassed, I want the level to be the same as if I plugged my guitar into the EFFECTS RETURN jack on my amp, using a DI box to make the signal line-level. To do this test, I'm connecting the output of my interface to the EFFECTS RETURN of my amp with an XLR > 1/4" TS cable, and the DIRECT OUTPUT on my amp to the input of my interface with a 1/4" TS guitar cable. The DIRECT OUT is a line-level tap off of the output transformer, and it is affected in level by both the MASTER VOLUME and DIRECT controls on my amp. What I'm looking to do is find a MASTER VOLUME/DIRECT setting that gives me -14.6 dB at the input of my interface, so that for the next test where I connect the Helix output to the EFFECTS RETURN of the amp, I'm looking for a Helix VOLUME setting that gives me -14.6 dB. The MASTER VOLUME/DIRECT settings that I find in this test are not applicable to real-world use - only for the purpose of this test. In the interest of keeping the loudness in my apartment to a minimum, and to reduce the chance of power amp distortion affecting the results, I've set the DIRECT at 10 (full) and I'm using the MASTER VOLUME to get as close as I can to -14.6 dB at the input of my interface. I ended up having to set the MASTER VOLUME on the amp at just above 1. Also, I should mention that the PRESENCE control is set to 10, which is the setting for the least amount of negative feedback (I wouldn't be able to back up the suggestion that that setting provides ZERO negative feedback, only the least).

 

The results are interesting - 

Honestly, the frequency response and distortion characteristics don't bother me (it's a tube guitar amp, it's not supposed to be fidelitous) - BUT LOOK AT THAT PHASE!!  This would explain why I had to rewire a speaker cable to use 7CM with my JCM900 - apparently the power amp of my amp amplifies things out of phase and my JCM900 doesn't. Weird. Anyway, for the purpose of testing, I decided I had to remedy this. REW has an option to invert the polarity. It doesn't really explain whether it inverts the signal being outputted or the signal being captured at the input. Anyway, here's the result - 

So, not perfect, but much better.

 

So the next test is to connect the output of my interface to the FX RETURN of my Helix using an XLR > 1/4" TS cable, the 1/4" OUT of the Helix to the EFFECTS RETURN of the amp using a 1/4" TS cable, and the DIRECT OUTPUT of my amp to the input of my interface using a 1/4" TS cable. The Input Block for the Helix is set to Return 1 (Input Gate "Off"), output to 1/4" (Pan "Center" and Level "0.0 dB"). There are no effects blocks. In Global Settings, 1/4" Outputs are set to "Line", and Volume Knob Controls is set to "1/4"". I can't think of anything that would affect this test (at this point I'm not using the Guitar In or the FX Send so those settings are irrelevant right now).

 

A couple thoughts about "line level" - there really is no agreed upon voltage that is defined as "line level", as far as I can tell. There's a range. I doubt that L6's line level is the same as what Mesa Boogie thought line level was in 1989. But in this case it's irrelevant because I'm looking for a Helix VOLUME setting that will give me as close to -14.6 dB at the input of my interface as I can get. But more importantly, "line level" is also a definition of impedance. I don't know what impedance the EFFECTS RETURN on my amp expects, what the Helix 1/4" Out sends, nor whether the LINE/INST setting has any affect on the impedance of the signal coming from the Helix at all. I suppose if there is a difference, it will show up in the frequency response graph?

 

So first thing's first - this is the VOLUME setting on the Helix that gave me 14.6 dB at the input of my interface -

I don't know if I have an opinion on this, or if I need to have an opinion on this. Having the required VOLUME setting be at full or even 12 o'clock would make me feel like I've been doing everything right and actually got a volume setting that I could use and maybe EVERYBODY ELSE could use reliably. But until I see a compelling reason why my entire thinking is wrong on this, I'll accept that this is the VOLUME setting that is going to give me the same level as if I was plugged into the EFFECTS RETURN of the amp with a DI box. And so I put a little green triangular piece of tape on my Helix to mark that setting for future reference.

 

In case anybody's interested, here's the test results - 

No major changes. I'm thinking that if the impedance were wrong, there would be a big difference in the high end content, which there isn't, so I'm going to assume that there's no point in investigating the INST setting for the connection between the Helix 1/4" Out and the EFFECTS RETURN of my amp.

 

As far as the question of level settings for the preamp of a guitar amp in the loop of a multi-fx, I don't really see how this kind of testing is relevant to this application. In the case of trying to find an output volume to feed your amp's effects return, it's a question of trying to maximize fidelity and volume (even if, in the case of my amp, the power stage of your amp isn't particularly fidelitous at all). When it comes to a guitar preamp, fidelity isn't even a remote concern. It's a tool for shaping the tone of your dry electric guitar signal (which nobody likes anyway), so even if there is a slight difference in gain or output levels between plugging your guitar straight into the front panel of your amp and putting the preamp of your amp into the FX loop of a multi-fx, you're setting that GAIN control to taste anyway, so that kind of accuracy in settings is less important than if the user can find a setting that "feels" the same as plugging straight into the front panel. And that is a question of impedance, since a low-impedance line-level signal will result (in my experience, at least) in an unbearably "screamy" sounding preamp, I'm assuming because a high-impedance instrument-level signal comes with an inherent high-frequency roll off that a guitar preamp is designed to account for. And so the Helix has a setting that seems to be intended to deal with that - the Line/Instrument settings in Global Settings > Ins/Outs > Send/Return. I've asked the question a few times but never really got a definitive answer as to whether or not this setting actually does anything to the impedance of the signal coming from the FX Send, or if it just dials down the voltage. Back in the X3 days, I started using a reamp box to convert the line-level signal coming from the FX Send of my X3L to an instrument-level signal and that made my preamp "feel" like I was plugged into the front panel when it was actually in the loop of the X3L, and so I continue to use the reamp box with the Line setting with my Helix because it just feels better than the Instrument setting. Whether or not I got the same amount of gain for a given GAIN knob setting is irrelevant, or at the very least the difference was too small for me to notice. So I don't know what there is to gain by running pink noise or a frequency sweep through a guitar preamp for the purposes of finding the "correct" settings, because there isn't a correct setting on a guitar preamp. Right? Maybe someone can give me a compelling reason why it would be worth the time and effort to do such a test. I think that if the question is whether the Line/Instrument settings actually do anything in terms of impedance, it's probably better to answer that question with a multi-meter or something, and I'm not knowledgeable enough to do that test.

 

I might not even be knowledgeable enough to do the tests I just did. Haha.

 

Anyway, I hope this is interesting to SOMEONE and I'm happy to see and respond to any CONSTRUCTIVE comments or questions or criticisms.

I think this could be summarized into shorter conclusions and a more digestible form but the LOE is appreciated. How would you translate this into practical suggestions to help get a good sound for those using 4CM (and their ears)?

On 3/24/2021 at 10:14 AM, terry said:

Updated HX Stomp firmware today after quite a while of inactivity.

Now for some reason buttons Home/view and back page not working.

Cant get into menu/global/mode settings etc from unit.

Everything works fine using HX Edit.

Tried the obvious rolling back to previous firmware/global reset etc without any luck.

Anyone having a solve would be greatly appreciated.

If this happened on my Helix the first thing I would check is using the Global reset options to put the Helix in test mode(FS 3&4 on the Helix) which does a low level check of the hardware and allows you to test all the buttons and switches. I don't see a test mode global reset option listed for the Stomp though.  Just mention it in case one exists and isn't listed yet.

On 3/24/2021 at 8:10 PM, rd2rk said:

Sounds like time to open a support ticket.

Short of finding a test mode that allows you to test those buttons and given the fact that you already tried rd2rk's other remedies a ticket does sound like your next step. Who knows, maybe Line6 has a test mode you can try.

On 3/26/2021 at 1:58 PM, Slovafn said:

is it okay for HX STOMP not to use Safely Remove from PC (during open Edit)

Are you referring to the icon in the system tray on Windows for "Safely Remove ..." USB devices? If so then it probably is not necessary but still not a bad idea. Disconnecting a device this way can help Windows keep track of which USB devices have been removed. In some cases that assists Windows in detecting when the device, e.g. your Stomp is plugged back in again.

I turn my Helix off all the time while the editor is open and it does not seem to cause any issues. I save my preset first of course if I am editing. Nonetheless, the proper procedure is doubtless to close the editor before turning off or disconnecting the device. Does not seems to cause any problems if I don't though.

5 hours ago, chugchug said:

Hey all,

 

Brand new Helix LT owner here running into a really frustrating problem.

 

After opening my LT for the first time, I connected it to my Mac (running OS SIerra), and attempted to update through the Line 6 Updater. About halfway through, it told me that the update failed.

 

I did read the prompts prior to beginning the installation that said I would receive error messages and helix would reset, but mine never did. Instead, it's stuck on an update screen that reads "Updating UI MCU Firmware, please wait. Do not power off the unit."

 

I waited about 40 minutes from this point to decide that something was wrong, so I started powercycling, attempting factory resets etc and nothing! It just returns to the same update screen. I'm incredibly frustrated. Has anyone dealt with this issue?

You first want to start by downloading and installing the 3.0.1 version of HX Edit with all boxes checked. 

You are probably going to have to do a global reset, you can find the various combinations here  https://helixhelp.com/tips-and-guides/universal/reset-options  .  Then you can hopefully get back to kicking off the firmware update again from HX Edit. If these steps don't get you updated you can do the process manually with the Line6 Updater utility.

It is fairly common for people to experience update issues, particularly their first one. The back & forth posts that can be required to diagnose and fix it would quickly overwhelm this "Bugs" topic. If you need more assistance I would open either a new topic or better yet post in one of the thousand that exist on this subject already, for example,  the topic below has a lot of good tips, just a little long in the tooth now as you definitely want to download and install the latest 3.0.1 version of HX Edit.

12 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

It sounds to me like what you're describing is what often referred to a Real Time Analysis of room acoustics.  That generally requires some fairly specialized mics and equipment if that's what you're after.  If so this may be a good place to start:  https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

 

Freeware too, nice! You can donate to the developer if you like and use it.

Saw the following quoted comment below the video the OP posted, borne out by the interview in kduck's post.  "I just figured it out, its two boss dl3 pedasl joined in some "twin pedal" he uses them on the hold function."  If that is correct you may need to incorporate that hold functionality along with the dual delay to get his sound.

5 hours ago, jdhanson815 said:

This is a small bug, but still annoying. 

 

When going from Bank 2 to Bank 1, Helix will always skip Bank 1 and go to Bank 32. I then have to move from Bank 32 up to Bank 1. It seems to happen in all of the setlists.

This is a well documented and reported bug and is supposed to be fixed in the upcoming 3.1.0 firmware update. Btw, there is a topic pinned towards the top of the forum specifically for bugs where you can report these in the future.  If it turns out to be a confirmed bug you may want to open a ticket with Line6 afterwards as they are much more likely to address it that way.