Bangha

I don't really have a dog in this race, but your statement is not true. I believe it was the June '16 update if memory serves, that Line 6 responded to their customers and provided the additional granularity they asked for in the tuner which is now available in the tuner display. So they have not disregarded customer feedback - just the opposite.

 

I understand the additional granularity appears to have had the unanticipated side affect of jumpiness. I would fully expect that to be addressed in due time, if one can go by history as a prediction of the future.

Just started this thread 2 days ago, I am referring only to the thread's participants and content.

I do hope you are right though. further refinement of the tuner would be wonderful.

I actually ended up buying SlideRig Compact Deluxe and it is a joy to use, I have set up more as an all purpose compressor, On 90% of the time. It sounds spectacular, maybe I'll give it a go to try to clone a few of my favorite settings for the community.

I have never really said I doubt that people are having issues with the tuner. I have always said that it works for me, and that's that. I've tried to throw in a few suggestions, and I'm sorry if those sound like I'm questioning someone's experience. The fact is I don't know anyone's level of experience here. There are commenters who post here who are pretty much beginners, so I don't want to take for granted that everyone simply knows the basics. So I apologize if some comments come off as patronizing or whatever - certainly not my intent.

 

I would also not say I'm contradicting you. You are sharing your personal experience, and I'm sharing mine. Is yours more valid than mine or others? I mean, I'm not a professional guitarist in the sense that it's what I do for a living, but I certainly have done many paid gigs over the years, including paid studio work.

 

As far as other digital tuners, far too many to list... I mean, I've been using Line 6 stuff since the POD 2.0 days, but I've also use Boss stuff, and I've used a number of different apps. I do think the way the Helix displays the fine tuning bars is a bit unique among tuners... I noticed on app I sometimes use that the "green zone" for being in tune starts at -10 cents and goes to +10 cents... Quite a big difference!

 

Anyway, I think perhaps the best thing people having problems could do is perhaps create videos of the tuner not working like they'd like, open a support ticket, and share those with Line 6. That is probably the fastest way to get your issue seen by the right people. DI always Line 6 operates from a place of "leave your egos at the door", so they certainly are always looking to improve things.

Reading rough the thread, our tuner woes have been consistently disregarded. I'm sure no ill-will is intended, but it has been the case. I've nothing against those whose tuner works fine. What's more, it would be brilliant if it were a vast majority as that would rule out the issue. That has not been the case is nor the point of this discussion.

As I've stated a few times already, a good tuner would not be controversial. I started this thread asking if I was alone in having issues with the tuner, as it appears, it is a widespread situation. Had it been just me, I'd chalk it down to a faulty unit and have it fixed. It has turned out to be many users finding the tuner anywhere from sub-par to unusable. I assumed if it wasn't just me, the thread would run along the lines of "OK, many people have issue with a crucial Helix component." and then hopefully Line 6 would issue a fix for it and then we would all be happier and better off with a superior product. To my surprise, and amusement I must admit, it has become a bit more of an artsy film noir/comedy. Not sure how or why. All we want is a good, stable tuner.

Phil, my question about the Helix tuner, to be precise is. Is your Helix just as stable as every other tuner you have used before?

As for the drama of it all, I for one do not feel anyone has been, or should be offended by any of this. We are discussing a flaky tuner. There are way more important things to be offended about. If it helps bring some peace and quiet I for one am willing to mud wrestle Phil. Winner is right concerning tuning stability, loser gets to walk barefoot overboard a carpet of guitar string clippings, sharp end up. There, the gauntlet has been thrown down. Are you up for that Phil? €20 pay per view, we are all winners.

Not sure why you would think I'm trolling...

Your persistence in contradicting a consistently growing number of users that find the Helix tuner inadequate, by reminding us your tuner works great was the first clue. Your questioning if able musicians might be using the tuner improperly followed. The disparaging remark that you can't put every single alternative up for popular vote fueled the fire. The last nail was in the coffin was, after long discussion concluding that we would really like the tuner to be more stable, yet another rebuttal+my tuner works great.

Please accept the fact that the tuner does not work for many of us. Turning a blind eye to what clearly is an issue does not benefit anyone. Contradicting us incessantly doesn't help either. Your point of liking the tuner has come across throuought the discussion.

I now understand that you are a beta tester for line 6, and maybe unconsciously you feel the need to side with the team you are a part of, or simply feel attacked. That would make perfect sense. Maybe you own Yamaha and Line 6 I don't know. Whatever the case may be, the constructive criticism from many professional musicians concerning the tuner is geared towards creating a better product that will further brand loyalty. It is not a personal attack, or an attempt at devaluing your involvement in Helix development.

Just as a closing thought. May I ask. Do you have much experience with other digital tuners? If so, which ones and do you find Helix tuner to be just as stable, or even more so than those other models?

Well, I beta test for them, so I definitely have no problem telling them when something isn't working... All I've been saying in this thread is I don't have anything to tell them, because it works fine for me... It's hard to identify or track down a problem when you have people giving vastly different descriptions of what's happening, I think.

 Phil, are you having a giggle at our expense and is it going over my head? Trolling  believe they call it online? If so, well played sir! If not,  please be a dear and tell them about the rest of us? The issues are there, I'll be happy to lead the coalition of the tunerless and gather all the required data they may need.

Thanks

Some very entertaining responses here but apparently "denial" is not just a river in Egypt. I cannot believe what I am hearing on this thread as people try to think and talk there way out of a problem that requires action in the form of a fix, not more "investigation" and discussion. Should we set up a multi-lateral committee to do an in depth analysis and produce a two hundred page report on the tuner? Now we are actually entertaining notions that the complaints about the tuner are due to "people not using it correctly". Seriously? A tuner is a dead simple device to use for the most part and the complaints are largely coming from players who are out performing so let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that if they are good enough to be paid to play most of them have probably mastered the complex art of operating a tuner. Although I appreciate the instructions regarding how to set the volume and tone and how to pluck the string, etc., I also find them inane. What performing musician has time for this kind of nonsense during a show and should a tuner really require custom guitar settings to operate properly?

 

It is absolutely no fun and comes off as most unprofessional to be in the position of having a band or audience waiting as you try to get in tune with the Helix tuner. I have had to launch into many a song fully cognizant that my tuning was a bit off because we simply don't have the luxury of waiting for the Helix tuner to settle down and give me a definitive reading.

 

These issues where a problem only effects a subset of the users tend to be the hardest ones to resolve because not everyone experiences the pain. In this case though that subset of users are the players who use the Helix for performance. That seems like a large enough group having a problem with a basic and critical MFX feature to be worth considering. Due to its granularity and responsiveness the tuner may be ideal for studio use. If you are not using the Helix for live performance I totally understand why you feel the tuner's sensitivity is not an issue or perhaps even a virtue. If you own a guitar(s) that happens to work perfectly with the Helix tuner I also get it. If you are one of the forum members who do beta testing and are therefor loosely affiliated with Line6 I also understand. No offence because you guys tirelessly help with the really challenging issues on the forum and are a critical resource but watching your responses on this issue is like reading a climate change report written by the lead scientist at Exxon. I can't help but think you are a bit biased. If I were in your position I would have given up the debate by now out of sheer exhaustion and gotten to work with Line6 to fix this thing. IMHO the tuner undeniably has issues for live use, ultimately I think these tuner threads will and should persist until it gets fixed.

 

I understand the frustration (disgust?) of the developers or DI who delivered what people were asking for, a more granular tuner, and are yet again being asked to revisit it. The tuner is 90% there. The display is large and incredibly easy to see on a dark stage. The added second tuning bar provides great granularity. It is already eminently usable for home studios. This tuner could be magnificent, it just needs another revision to make it stage ready. Let's dispense with the chit-chat already and just fix this thing. Once the jumpiness is resolved we can revisit the tuner in new threads dedicated to requesting that it be polyphonic and include alternate tunings... :D

You sum up my exact feelings with choice words H.O. Thank you.

There is clearly a problem that needs a solution. L6 gurus, please give us a stable tuner. We need it and Helix deserves it.

I use all of them. Nothing groundbreaking though:

FX LOOP 1 King of Tone

FX LOOP 2 Pete Cornish P2 Fuzz

FX LOOP 3-4 Stereo EHX Super Pulsar (my favorite trem) I use the CV send to control different trem parameters on it. Depending on the situation I might control term depth and or rate.

I double Fx loop 3 as a mono send to an MXR univibe. I love the one on Helix, but this one was a gift from my wife and I always use it when in vibe need.

For you, though... Not for everyone... Don't you find it odd that there's such a broad variation of experience? What do you think accounts for that? How is it I can use it with no problem for all of my guitars? Or do believe I'm not telling the truth?

For me and a vast number of posters in this thread. I do find it odd indeed. But I leave the software mystery solving to the professional programmers. I am a musician that needs a tuner that works, just like any and every other tuner in the market does. Considering the models of everything else are so good. Any chance of getting a couple of tuner models? :D

It's fine that not everyone likes it... Not everyone like the Polytune pedal... Not everyone likes a Peterson Strobe. Not everyone likes a Boss TU-2 or TU-3... Do you see what I'm getting at? Trying to design something that pleases all users is an impossible task. I mean, what should they do? Put every feature up for a popular vote?

Phil, let’s be serious for a second. Nobody suggested putting up every feature up for popular vote, let’s not take things out of context. The wonderful thing about Helix is the plethora of alternatives it provides allowing everyone to find their favorite amps, distortions, time-based and modulation effects. Not every model will suit everyone, and that’s magic.

The tuner on the other hand is not a model with esoteric tonal qualities. It is a standard tool, with small variations from brand to brand but they all work the same way with the same principle in mind, getting in tune quickly, accurately and efficiently. There is no need for popular vote on that. It’s a fact. The issue at hand is the tuner is failing at this.

I have NEVER come across a tuner that will not allow me to tune to pitch, and I’ve used every kind (at least every popular one) for the past couple of decades and they work flawlessly (although some people might prefer one model or another). Using any and all of those tuners as a baseline I can safely say the Helix tuner is not allowing me, and quite obviously many others to tune quickly, accurately and efficiently. In our perspective this IS a problem and we would appreciate it being solved by making Helix as good a tuner as every other one we have used before.

I most certainly don't want to insult anyone... but are some of ya just doing it wrong? I find it weird that I have zero problems with 5 different instruments and some of y'all can't get your guitars in tune at all with it...

Peter, no insult taken. I find it varies from instrument to instrument and even string to string. I was tuning my PRS Custom 24 a few minutes ago, and the high E is easy to tune. As I make my way down the lower strings, tuning stability get incrementally worse, until the tuner just won't hold still on my low E. Pick hard, pick soft, different pickups, tone up, tone rolled off the result is the same.

The tuner could be better. Less jumpy. But not everyone agrees. Next.......

 

For the life of me I do not get this kind of reasoning. Many of us are unhappy with the tuner and find it troublesome to work with it.

I accept the fact it's good to some of you, please accept the fact it is not good or useable in a professional environment for a great number of us.

Please accept our expectation of having a tuner we are comfortable with in Helix. This is no fancy or ludicrous request is it?

If tuner discussion is not your cup of tea, I do recommend not reading more of this thread. Maybe go tune your guitar instead ;) (that should keep you busy for a while :D )

Sure there is still the occasional person who does not find the tuner reactive or accurate enough but they are the extremely rare exception. If you look far enough back at the old tuner threads there were a ton of complaints that the tuner was not "granular" enough and that it read in tune even when it was not. There were few or NO complaints about it being jumpy. A few firmware versions ago they responded to the complaints regarding granularity with a firmware revision that made the tuner readout more granular and added the second tuning bar. That is when the complaints about it being too jumpy started and the complaints about granularity pretty much ended. Let's not start revising history by saying the complaints were alternating. We have moved from a stable tuner that people perceived as not responsive or granular enough to a jumpy tuner that I suppose you could describe as overly responsive. We just need to find a way to leverage the increased/improved granularity with a less jumpy readout or one that offers a momentary freeze (as discussed ad nauseam).

Precisely.

There really is no need for a tuner to be controversial. The fact that it is shows there is something wrong with Helix tuner. For those of you who have tried them, display luminosity aside) have you found tuning issues with polytune or boss tuners?

This thread reminds me of the offspring of cross-breeding with a cat and a horse - something with nine lives that can't be beaten to death.

This thread was inspired by the offspring of a maraca on cocaine and Kim Jong il.

I have a feeling every time the tuner has been discussed there's been a certain ganging up on those, like myself, who find it performs poorly. I really don't understand why that is. Helix has the least useable tuner I've owned. I would like it to work properly. Not looking to stir up the pot or offend those with tuner sensibilities.

Reading between the lines... I'd like to offer this: if you are asking a tuner in a multi-function box like Helix to be preferable to standalone devices that were made solely to tune and with no other function, you are asking too much.

 

So if the real question is "Will the Helix tuner ever be as good as or better than a Turbo Tuner or StroboStomp" not only is the answer yes, but the answer is "Yes, and PLEASE Line 6 don't sink a bunch of development time into this... model new amps and FX instead..."

I understand what you're saying PH. My expectations are not that high though. I am just after a tuner that works for me in my environment. An average digital stable tuner. To be honest I've never had tuner issues before, and have been feeling really frustrated tuning with Helix . That's why I started this thread, I want to make sure it's not only me, (maybe I have some kind of tuning fetish I'm not aware of!) or maybe even faulty gear. Other guitarists that I've been working with, have also loved taking my Helix for a spin, but have found the tuner kinda awkward. Although, I along with them love the display.  When it comes down to it, a stable tuner is the meat and potatoes of any rig and I really wouldn't mind L6 resources being assigned to one, even if that means I won't get other toys for a while.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Helix, but the tuner makes Helix a sexy girl with man hands.

No. On last Saturday's gig, I couldn't tune my low E string. Tuner was jumping around like crazy and would never settle in. And yes, I was using the neck pickup with the tone knob rolled back. Maybe that string was getting prematurely old. Or maybe the tuner needs some more work.

That's the kind of behavior I'm referring to myself. I have never had such an issue with a tuner, and I've been through dozens of them in the past 2 decades.

I'm seeing 4/5 saying it works fine for their purposes.

Under certain conditions, with specific reservations, while preferring other tuners .I'm not looking to create an argument Thurston, and I do not know the settings others use Helix in. However, in a professional environment, which is my purpose, Helix tuner for me is simply not dependable. I would expect my €1400 cutting edge rig to be easier for tuning than the free app on my phone.

Thank you all for your replies. So reading the above, it is safe to sat 2 out of 4, (3/4 if you count me) users on this thread agree the tuner could be better? I am very aware it is now considered utmost uncool to say that on the forum, but for me this feels like a very jerky tuner.

I am aware that the jumpiness, texture, flavor and smell of the tuner have been discussed to death and become somewhat of a joke on here. However, I still have trouble properly tuning with it on the fly. Every other tuner I use is considerably more stable and lets me tune spot on in a matter of seconds. Am I alone here? Will the tuner get some more work done eventually? I really don't wish to add a polytune to my rig as of now. Helix should be able to replace it.

Never heard of this before. But I too look forward to giving it a shot on Helix later.

Thanks!

Thanks you guys!

Went to the stores, can't find a 7/64" anywhere. Mine is definitely stripped. I hope it's just the wrench that is messed up and not the screw itself. If that were the case. Is it easy to find replacement screws?

I'll go online and pick up a new wrench and try to figure it out.

Thanks for your help,

Charlie do you happen to know the size of the wrench for the bridge posts? I have dozens of them, and a Guitar Tool, but only the one that came with the Variax pseudofits.

Thanks!

Bass side is still ridiculously hard though, in an attempted spin i already felt a dreaded slip from the wrench. I fear stripped. grrrrrr

Did you loosen the strings first?  Just a suggestion.  I don't own a 59 but I do own a Les Paul.

Hey Charlie, thanks for the reply. I did indeed.

Bridge on my JTV59 is too high. Want to lower it however, it is HARD! I went ahead and loosened the bottom screws on the bridge, attempted to give the main posts a bit of a spin, but they just won't go. I fear stripping the screws or my hex/allen wrenches that came with the axe. Am I missing something?\

Thanks for the help

Agreed Jos!

I'll bo honest with you, I have not tried the gate on Helix. The only explanation that would make sense would be that it is a soft knee gate, meaning it's not a "hard" gate but one that reduces gain. The "trickle" signal left to pass would certainly be weaker than the original signal, hitting the amp softer hence affecting gain. I'm just suggesting why this could be, however, I have not tried to replicate what you've heard.