iamgeorge

Hey guys, 

As guitarists, we often go through phases.. we often go back and listen to some music that we haven't listened to in a while.. I just started listening to Pantera again (for the 55th time) and I still get blown away by Dime's unmatched playing style.  Some might argue that his tone wasn't great (I thought it suited their music just perfectly), however his use of FX is simply on point. 

I would love to know if anyone has come across or made up any delays/verbs/pitch etc that resemble his leads and solos?  Not to be album or song specific, but some of the delays and verbs on songs like Mouth For War, A New Level, Walk, I'm Broken etc etc are the standouts to me. 

If anyone has any settings/links/patches they'd like to share or sell, feel free to hit me up. 

Cheers

Hey guys, 

Let me rephrase.. 

Rather than going out and buying a bass guitar and running it through the Helix, I'm wondering if can you make a patch within the Helix so that your electric guitar sounds like a bass?  I really only need this for basic recording purposes, not for live or anything.  

I would assume that you'll need pitch/detune etc plus a good amp sim + cab/IR.  Just not sure how or where to start. 

If anyone has anything to share, a link, or better still, if someone has a patch they'd like to share that would be a great help. 

Many thanks

Thanks for the insightful responses guys, appreciate it. @bsd512 @phil_m @cruisinon2 @rd2rk @amsdenj   That Izotope's Neutron/Ozone stuff is way beyond me man! 

Just to add.. here’s a little something I did with the Helix PANAMA amp + GnR IR.. and that’s it.  Straight into Reaper via my Yamaha HS5s. 

** DISCLAIMER **  I'm referring to the lead tone that I'm playing, not the backing track.  The backing isn't mine (belongs to the guitarist in my band.. I just used it to jam over..). 

I guess my next question is a matter of opinion, BUT, if wanted to sharpen up this tone, or take away some of the ‘nastiness’ or maybe if I wanted to just enhance it a little, what would I do or where would I start?  To me there's a difference between a tone that has had post processing vs a tone that hasn't had any.. the lead tone in this clip is straight from the Helix into Reaper. 

I’ve seen lot’s of Rocco’s clips (granted he’s a Fractal guy), and I’ve bought/played/used Glenn’s, Moke’s, Marco’s presets and everything sounds so different.  Some of their tones sound dreadful through my Helix and Yamaha HS5’s but when you're listening to them playing it, it's TOTALLY different and always sounds awesome.  NOW, I realise that's a different topic perhaps, but I'm more curious to know if 'post processing' would make this tone better.  By 'better', I mean nicer to the ear, or cleaner or more rounded off.  Hope that makes sense. 

In a perfect world, I'd like it to be as simple as possible, without necessarily needing to buy/download more programs and software if it can be avoided.  Not crucial though. 

Here's the patch if anyone is interested. Panama Amp Patch.hlx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSz__uLmSCs&feature=youtu.be

Your welcome man! 

Oh man.. any of those above-mentioned VH sounds would be awesome.  Both of those albums had very unique tones (for me, Balance is Ed's ultimate tone IMO even though he used all sorts of FX to widen/thicken his sound).  And really, if anyone can nail the Unchained flanger, then they deserve serious recognition!  I've tried a small handful of Helix flangers (including artist preset) and none come close to it.  Just my experience. 

What you do, the way you do it, and the passion you put into it is awesome man. Happy to pay for people's patches when you can clearly see they've invested time into them. 

So I've recently starting experimenting with Reaper.  I've been recording directly into the Reaper via my Helix, however I think the overall sound could probably be tweaked a little.  BUT I'm not sure how or where to start..  

Do I need additional software or programs to be able to do that?  Or can I do that via Reaper?  Ideally, what would be the best way?  (the simpler the better for me!)

Thanks. 

Dude that's awesome!  Great job!  @malhavok

Umm.. do you take requests at making patches/presets?!  

Van Halen - 'Balance' tone, 'OU812' tone.. and of course, the 'Unchained' flanger.. Haven't come across an Unchained flanger setting in the Helix yet that is spot-on. 

Otherwise, seriously great sounds man 

Hey guys..

Just curious to know if anyone is running their Helix in 4CM with their Friedman BE100 or modded Marshall in 4CM?

Why do I ask?  Well, the plan is to keep the settings ‘neutral’ on the amp, however, I’m going to use the Helix to add an OD/tubescreamer pedal here and there (depending on the patch) to give it more bite/cut/top end etc.  But, the real question is, has anyone put an EQ somewhere within the signal chain to remove some of the mids to make it a bit ‘angrier’ or a bit more ‘metal’ so to speak?  I don’t want to completely scoop the mids, just enough for there to be some differentiation in sound and tone. Granted, the amp has the C45 and SAT switches but they cannot be activated by the Helix, you physically need to do this at the rear of the amp. 

The amp is incredibly versatile – we know this, but I guess it’s just a matter of whether this can be done, and if so, how.. I presume it’s an EQ block that would do the trick somewhat..

Thanks guys. 

I sometimes use a Line 6 Vetta 2 combo, so same idea. Neither are FRFR, so personally I run the amp models without a speaker block or IR into the combo power amp (effects return). No need to use a cab model as it's going into an actual guitar speaker, though I've read some folks do, I tried it, but when cranked to drummer level sounds unnatural to me.

I do have to put a dummy jack plug in the amp's input and I run a blank preset on the combo. It's a stereo effects return socket, so i use a y lead, 2x mono jacks from the Helix to a stereo jack into the combo, otherwise you only get one speaker, though I believe Flextones come in mono and stereo versions. Sounds great to me and the Vetta 2 has master Bass and Treble controls for room tweaks.

That's great to know, thanks for the input. 

Ok, let me rephrase that.. 

I could've sworn I remember seeing somewhere here that there are some players out there that have been using the Line 6 Flextone combo as an FRFR solution, either at home or on stage.. could this be?! 

I guess the second part of this weird question is, can that actually be done?   For anyone that actually has done that, how does it sound? 

Opinions are like A55holes... everyone has one.  I like the Chicago Bulls, you might like The Cavs?  I like milk chocolate, you like dark chocolate.. who cares what chocolate either of us like?!    

I've owned all 3 and here's my observations..  To say it's not in the same league as the Kemper/AXE FX doesn't mean jack sh1t really.  Comes down to how you use it.  Devin Townsend uses all 3!! 

Kemper  =  amazing for what it is, but not the most user friendly.  The profiles can be good but that depends on how good the actual profile is. THIS ALSO DEPENDS on if whether you rely on profiles for your core sound/core tone..  

Axe FX/AX8  =  fractal still lead the way in terms of amp/cab sims. They are better.  But how much better is the question?  Comes down to how well you can dial in a patch and make it sound awesome. 

Helix floor  =  love it.  Sold my first and now I'm on my second and it's staying this time.  The easy of use, the ability to dial in patches and make adjustments on the fly is what makes this a stand-out. From that point of view it cannot be beaten.  The Helix has to be the ultimate gigging tool.  

With regards to the AX8  vs  Helix theory.  Sure, the AX8 has that edge given that it's had MANY firmware updates over its journey and the Helix has had minimal in comparison, however imagine you and I played in the same band, and we're both guitarists.  Doesn't matter whether we play hi-gain/low-gain/blues/clean etc etc.. Do you think people in the crowd will really be able to say "oh that guy's AX8 totally kick's that other guy's Helix..."  No chance. NO CHANCE.  Same with the Kemper.  I've had 2 Kempers and am in no hurry for a third.  As a player that plays in a gigging band, it's important for me to have a seamless and easy to setup rig that gives me everything I need.  Both the Helix and AX8 do that for me.  But, my Helix integrates and works better with my 2 amps than my AX8 does.. Is this starting to make sense or help?! 

Ultimately, it also comes down to how you intend to use it.  The Helix, in my experience, integrates incredibly well with other gear/amps etc which is important to me.  It has the built-in exp pedal that other modellers don't offer (that I'm aware of).  It's so damn easy to use and that alone is a huge standout feature.  With the Fractals, you could spend HOURS tweaking things which is fine, but you eventually spend less time playing..  <_<

My suggestion.. sure, watch the clips but take the opinions with a pinch of salt.  If I were you, I would work out what is important to you, work out how you think you will use it, then base your decisions on that.  That's what I would do. 

Good luck

I have a few videos on my channel about this but they are with the POD HD500.  It's still the exact same method.  If you are doing everything right and it's still not working contact Fender/EVH.  I have spoke to other people that did have problems and they had to get the amp repaired.

 

Best of luck.

 

Hi George, 

Thanks mate!  I've watched some of your clips - great work.  I'll give that a go. 

Thanks. 

Hey guys, looking for some guidance here..  It could be a simple fix but I’m a little lost in terms of how to get this happening..

I’m certain I’m doing something wrong, but I’m having trouble getting the Helix to change the channels on my EVH 5153 (50w) amp via midi.  That EVH amp has midi so changing channels shouldn’t be hard. I also have a custom made 4 channel amp with midi, and I’ve managed to get that to change the channels on that amp via the Helix, but I can’t quite make it work on the EVH.

Any recommendations or YouTube clips that I should look at?!  It must be something with the amp itself and not the Helix..?  Happy to take any recommendations to get this happening.  Once I conquer this, I then know I can just save-copy-paste those patches and use wherever/whenever.  

Thanks guys.

Unfortunately this is not possible. The reason is that the actual placement of the pickup, where it senses the string relative to the string's length, is what contributes to the "neck" or "bridge" sound. Because the effective length of each string changes depending on where you fret it, there is no single EQ shape or other effect that will compensate for this.

Thanks MDMAYFIELD.. yours is the best response, I appreciate it. 

Thank you for not telling me that I need to be slapped for wanting a guitar with one pickup as opposed to 2 or more (FYI, this is guitar #5 for me, the rest have two pickups). 

Thank you for not telling me that I should just get a guitar with a neck pickup. (thanks to the all Captain Obvious's)

Thank you for not telling me it's an unqualified approach and a 'fools errand'. (thanks to the power-user Chuck Norris.. took you 3 goes to get it right, huh?) 

And most importantly, thank you for actually answering the question and giving reasoning behind why it won't work, as opposed to reasons why I shouldn't do it, or better still as opposed to some of the above responses. 

Hey, 

Looking for a little guidance with this one.. 

So I'm in the process of getting a super-strat made for me (Warmoth body, Charvel neck, German Floyd, Bare Knuckle etc etc), however, it will be a single pickup guitar, which will obviously just be the bridge pickup, which is a Bare Knuckle Juggernaut.  

Is there a way I can alter a few settings on my Helix so that I can make my bridge pickup sound more like my neck pickup, or a blended sound of both bridge and neck pickup?? I presume it'll be in the amp block.. bumping up the bass/mids and possibly reducing the treble..?  Any other hints or tips on how to achieve this?

NOTE, I understand that it probably can't really be done, but if I can get close to it, I'll be happy... if this is possible..  Also, FWIW, I use my Helix floor with a valve power amp and FRFR.. 

Thanks

Hoping someone can help with this one.. 

I'm super happy with my sound, which is my floor Helix + VHT 100w valve power amp + 2x12 cab.  Sounds really good and I'm really happy with it. 

However, I've started pondering on having the 'real amp + cab' on stage, but maybe have an IR or cab in the signal chain so that that can go DI..  I'm just not sure where on the Helix Edit I'd need to put that cab or IR..?  <_<   Can anyone chip and suggest where it should go? Ideally, as I mentioned, having non-FRFR on stage is fine, but having FRFR going to front of house may work also (got this idea from a couple Axe FX users.. just not sure how and where to set it up on the Helix). 

I've also attached a patch if that helps as well as a screen dump of that patch.  I use SNAPS with this setup.  It goes from clean to dirty in this song, whereas most songs are just dirty. If I can find a place where to put the cab or IR, I can replicate that for all my patches. Thats the plan anyway! 

Any input is welcomed guys.. 

Thanks 

pls delete

I think it sounds pretty darn good if you ask me.

There's something special about that 5153 50-watter.. it's got something going on that not many other amps out there have.  Interestingly, when I had my Axe FX ii, I actually used to use the 5153 purely as a power amp, and I only used the HBE amp sim from the Axe FX.  It sounded bloody amazing!  I actually tried to substitute the 5153 for an actual valve power amp and nothing came close. So, I'm not surprised that your Helix patch when compared to the actual 5153 sounds identical.  Maybe it's power/voltage that the little guy can output which is why it can quite easily keep up with many 100w valve heads, maybe it's something else - I don't know.  But even when I've ran it in 4CM with my Helix recently, it still sounded BLOODY amazing. 

Would love that patch mate.. if you're willing to share of course  :D

D

i'd imagine it functions pretty simillarly with the helix as with the axe fx.?

Dunno man.. that's why I'm asking   :)   

In my previous experiences with it, I don't think it was completely flat response as per se, which was one of the things that I liked about it. But that was well and truly before Fractal went QUANTUM with their firmware updates and obviously before I bought my Helix. I wonder how it sounds now, given that I have a Helix, and given that we've had a few firmware updates.  I too imagine it won't be too different from the Axe-ii, I just wonder how it'll sound in a band mix, how it goes in gigs etc etc. 

Hey guys, 

I used to have the Friedman ASM-12 when I used to have the Axe FX 2, but that is long gone since. I'm about to buy one for my Helix and was curious to get people's thoughts on what they though of it?  

How does it sit in a band mix?  

Anyone using it for live shows (big or small gigs - doesn't matter)?

Other than it's awkward size and handle positioning, how do you find it overall, tone/sound-wise? 

Any input is welcomed  :)

Thanks

The want or requirement..

• An FRFR solution that can keep up with a Mesa 100w valve head  +  2x12 cab, a bass player and drummer, which is an originals hard rock band.
• Needs to cut through the mix and keep up ‘with the band’.
• Strong preference to an active type FRFR speaker/cab/solution

The use/purpose..

• For band prac/gigs/possible tour, with Helix floor unit. Less is more.  Happy to carry around a, for example, Mackie HD 1521 if it can do as per above. 
• Looking for the one unit, not really looking for a pair etc.

If anyone can shed any light based on their first-hand experience with something like this, would love to hear your thoughts, your do’s and your don’ts as well.

FOOT NOTE, I understand that a 100w valve head through a 2x12 cab will not sound as ‘big’ as the same amp being played through a 4x12; the 4x12 cab will sound bigger and louder because it’s pumping out sound via 4 speakers as opposed to 2. I’m adopting the same way of thinking with this FRFR idea; many FRFR solutions out there are either 1 or 2 speakers/drivers, so inherently it could be hard for an FRFR speaker that has only 1 or 2 speakers to ‘keep up with’ that before-mentioned 100w valve head + 2x12 or 4x12.. WITH THAT SAID, what would be the closest FRFR solution out there to meet the requirement and the purpose?!  (If this foot note didn’t make any sense, please disregard and refer to the first two points!! Lol)

Any recommendations welcomed 

Thanks in advance 

I'm confused, you say you agree with Silverhead who stated he does not think there should be a sticky topic for non-FRFR solutions but you then state you think there should be one. IMHO I do not think this should be a sticky topic for several of the reasons Silverhead stated.

Honestly man, not being nasty, but who cares really?  The key point to my thread wasn't to get people off side, which I obviously did which was NOT the intention, so really who cares what I think, or what I agree or disagree with?  My main point still stands somewhat; and that is that it would be good to maybe have a chat room/forum/sticky (call it whatever you want) that isn't FRFR, given that FRFR dominates all many points.  Most people seem to be against that idea for reasons they can only justify - and that's completely fine too, THAT doesn't bother me. 

And to your last sentence there, in your opinion; that is exactly the point, it was an idea, it was an opinion - nothing more. I've stated mine, you've stated yours.  That's what dis-heartens me about forums; things can get too easily critiqued for usually not the right reasons, then the whole point or idea gets completely missed. People are quick to dissect something and then carry on about what was said and how it's not right or whatever. Sometimes it's not even worth putting up a post because someone will look at it the wrong way.  Like I said earlier, not trying to be nasty  #olivebranch

I hear that you prefer a preamp/power-amp or guitar amp/cab setup to an FRFR or PA cab on stage and therefor would like to see more discussion of these approaches. I think some of the more experimental types here actually like going back and forth between the two approaches (amp/cab vs. FRFR). I support whatever method people prefer to get their sound although I prefer using a powered cab or FRFR myself. I strongly disagree with your characterization (if I am understanding correctly what you are trying to say) that FRFRs and PA cabs used with the Helix are primarily for 'bedroom' players. I feel exactly the opposite. I am in a couple of bands and perform live on a regular basis and I feel that using an FRFR or powered speaker to craft your tone as well as monitor it on stage gets me a lot closer to being able to predict what is going out the the FOH and is vastly preferable to using a guitar amp or some variation thereof. I think using an FRFR or powered cab is an eminently professional approach to sound-crafting and monitoring (as are alternative methods). As I said though, I have no issue with people using what works best for them and wish you good luck encouraging discussion of other approaches.

Seriously man, I hear you too, and it's not to offend anyone with my opinion, I've simply stated what my thoughts are on FRFR and how it does or doesn't work for me.  At present, it doesn't work for me, and I hope one day that it does because it'll be SO much easier for me in many ways. I've tried and persevered with it, and it's not for me, not now anyway. Hopefully in due course it is. 

With all due respect, I didn't foresee this to upset people or to think that I've pigeon-holed a point.  Not to get off topic because that's not what this is about, it's more about having other options and avenues that are not just FRFR within this Forum that some of us can turn to - that's all.  That's what my original post is about. If people are offended or whatnot, I'm happy for the moderators to delete this whole thread, I don't mind. 

Hi iamgeorge,

I think that in the Kemper and Fractal sites, (I could be wrong as I'm not on them) there is a lot more discussion about amps and cabs because of the timing of the release of their products.  They were ahead of the Helix.

I personally think that the future of all these devices is FRFR - obviously you don't.  

Knowing a Fractal guy, he bought a good power amp and a suitable speaker setup because that was the way people saw you could implement the thing in a live situation, but in the studio they were going direct into the desk.

Then I think people started to think to themselves that the sound they could tailor so well in the studio was the sound they wanted live.  That's what FRFR is about. 

Why do I push this?  Well in the studio you can put some sound processing after your amp, speaker and mic - and that is what we think of as a produced or studio sound.  That's only possible if you go FRFR.

Now, maybe you and some others actually don't like that experience - you want that kick in the lollipop of a double stack Marshall or whatever experience - fair enough - but I argue that the total sound quality out front suffers - unless you have a devoted sound engineer and he/she has access to a great rack of outboard gear, and knows your material inside out.

Sorry if I just hijacked your conversation! 

 

 

Hey man, good food for thought. I agree with basically everything you've written. I've owned 4 different FRFR 'gig-worthy' solutions, ranging from the CLR, Friedman ASM-12, two different Alto's and an RCX, all which have been good, especially the Friedman.  And I suppose it's different from player to player, and what the player likes to hear.  I know FRFR is possibly the way most players will want to play moving forward, I just don't find it consistent, and more often than not, you're at the mercy of, 1, the PA at the venue, 2, the sound guy.  If the PA is, to put it bluntly, sh!t, then how good is your sound going to be, regardless of much money you spent on buying IRs and so forth?  I'm avoiding the age old discussion or argument, 'which is better, Fender or Gibson', because different players will like them for different reasons - with there being no right or wrong.  FRFR is no doubt perfect for studios, home prac etc, but not live, not yet anyway - perhaps not for me. 

 

I don't think it matters whether FRFR is the future or not, to be perfectly honest.  I just don't think it's quite there yet - and that's my opinion.  I'm not knocking it, I'm just stating a view point. I relish the opportunity and day when I can wholey and solely use FRFR for MANY reasons, I really do. 

 

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly in regards to my original post, my idea was to have a forum that is more dedicated to non-FRFR solutions. 

 

Howdy all,

_Apologies moderators if this is in the wrong forum.. figured it might get a few more hits if it’s in the main forum_..

Having been part of the Fractal Forum (however no longer because I’m a loud and proud HELIX user J), and Kemper Forum, and now the Line 6 Helix forum, I’ve noticed that in particular here in the Helix forum, there’s a huge amount of FRFR discussions, but there’s minimal discussions about players that don’t necessarily use FRFR.  This could quite easily be because the bigger majority of players in this Line 6 forum ARE mainly FRFR users/players.  This isn’t an anti-FRFR topic or discussion, it’s more about expanding on this forum and perhaps growing the capabilities of the Helix and sharing wins/strategies/tones etc etc.  On the Fractal and Kemper forums, there are many discussions about FRFR, but there’s also a lot of discussions and banter about power amps + cabs + Kemper or Axe FX, _not just FRFR_.

Is it worth having a forum or chat room for the players that mainly use their Helix rig in a non-FRFR situation?  It’s all well and good to download and trade patches with one another that are FRFR; however from what I can ascertain on this forum, at least 90% of all things discussed is FRFR based, with not a lot of input on power amp + cab + Helix and so forth.  Again, having owned and played all 3 modellers, I personally keep resorting back to a valve power amp + cab + Helix because that not only works for me, but the band that I play in as well.  FRFR is the perfect bedroom solution (which a majority of us forum’ites are, presumably), however, I just think it’d be good to have a place to chat, trade ideas etc that are not always FRFR based..

Food for thought I guess..