Paulzx

On 11/17/2022 at 7:03 PM, brue58ski said:

I was referring to opinions

 

Thing about most religions is that they don't allow for humor, and their adherents have no concept of "context"

 

Despite the context your post was in, it still demonstrated an opinion you have about religions. Or at least could be taken that way. That's all. I was afraid of it blowing up like I've seen others do.

In your inital post you said most religions, I took that to mean most and not some. Those two words have different meanings. And the their adherents wording includes everyone who has a particular religions beliefs, not just some of the people. There was no quantification there. Just an overall blanket statement. I never said any beliefs were being challenged at all. What you presented was an opinion about religions in general, not a challenge of any religious beliefs. Context and punctuation do matter but so do the words you use. In fact I would say the words you use are the most important in determining context. Not trying to offend or insult or wag my finger at you. Just tired of everyone insulting everyone else and although at the very least your comment was meant to be in a humorous vein, I just saw how it could be taken differently. And sorry for the over analyzation. I'm stuck here waiting and this was something to do.

I think you're safe, I don't think anyone is about to get into religion on here. The only religion I'm interested in is rock & roll!

On 11/17/2022 at 5:28 PM, brue58ski said:

Please. This is the one calm safe haven I have. No religious (or political for that matter) opinions. You're just going to wind up insulting someones beliefs. I'm beggin' ya.

Are you talking about modellers or real religion lol?

On 11/14/2022 at 5:27 PM, rd2rk said:

I like broccoli. And brussels sprouts.

And hot dogs and pizza.

NY pizza of course. The problem is that most places that claim to be NY style pizza are FOS.

Nobody wants to eat that. Well, obviously SOME people do.

Silly remark, it's not about preferences or some platforms claiming to be something they are not, it's just a simple objective comparison

between similar pieces of kit. I'm surprised some people take such umbridge to the mere mention of a competitor. The Helix platform is

good enough to be able to have an objective discussion when comparing to other devices. It's helpful to know the pluses and minuses

of various platforms.

It's not a religion when you buy a modeller. You should still be able to discuss.

On 11/14/2022 at 1:44 PM, SaschaFranck said:

 

Sort of off topic:

 

I know this is likely considered blasphemy round some parts of the modeling world, but is that really all that important?

All I know is, that for me, it isn't.

Fwiw, this is also why I have a sweet spot for the Boss modeling. The best sounding amps and drive boxes in their units IMO are those not trying to be literal copies of existing devices.

And on my recent pedalboard, the amp model I'm using for all my driven tones is a pretty much modified (as in using pre- and post-EQ plus some custom-made IR) Bassman of an Atomic Amplifirebox with some (real) pedals slapped in front. Apart from a completely clean tone (which is provided by another pretty much modified Super Reverb coming from a NUX Amp Academy), I hardly ever need anything else (I could use the Stomp in addition but only ever do so for certain rare recording situations).

For me, as long as it feels well while playing, offers enough flexibility to get everything I need done and sits well in a mix (especially live), that's all it takes.

 

In the end, for me (<-!) the usability aspect has turned out to be much more important than whatever super accurate amp replications. And for my use case, with my current setup pretty much all usability boxes are checked (apart from some that, interestingly enough, are almost exclusively related to the HX Stomp, even if I like it quite a bit in its role as an almost-only-FX unit).

 

Now, I know that's just me (well, maybe not just me, but still...), but when lurking around the modeling world's various channels, I can't help it but think that this almost endless quest for whatever perfect amp emulations is keeping away at least quite some people from concentrating what all this at least originally was almost certainly about: Playing guitar, ideally through some nice sounding pieces of gear. It often seems to be along the lines of "Until I don't have amp XYZ at my disposal, all of my rock star attempts must be brought to a halt!"

I'm not saying it's necessarily like that, I'm also not adressing anyone in particular, but that's the impression I often have.

And as far as myself is concerned, ever since I decided to not use a one-size-fits-all-in-one-box modeler anymore (even if I still own the Stomp), I'm playing more than ever throughout the last 2-3 years. Fwiw, partially related, in my case it also seems to massively help that I simply don't have to use any editors and what not for any common things anymore. It's all knobs, directly exposed WYSIWYG style, sitting next to me (my pedalboard is raised to chair level at home).

I actually agree, for me the accuracy of the modelling was never that important, just to be able to plug in and really enjoy what you're hearing is far more important and you can get that with Helix but it usually takes a bit of tweaking. I will say that Quad Cortex and Fractal do sound better out of the box, but Helix is a better overall deal for what you get.

On 11/11/2022 at 2:56 AM, Kilrahi said:

We all hate the Helix here.  I'd ask the Fractal forum.

Ironically, that is an area the helix is probably better than the Fractal lol

On 11/13/2022 at 3:17 AM, Kilrahi said:

 

However, to claim some sort of superior sonic superiority? 

 

It's a load of crap. 

It's not a load of crap, it's the opinion of many people who have owned both and chosen to move because one sounded better than the other.

The Helix does a lot of things better than most competitors, but it isn't the best thing out there when it comes to reproducing amp tones, it's pretty good

but it's not the best.

On 11/11/2022 at 3:00 AM, Kilrahi said:

Yeah ... and then in a blind test those cork sniffing fools fail every time. 

 

They can keep their Fractals. Their loss.

What are you talking about? A lot of those Cork sniffing fools as you call them, used to be here using helix devices, some still do but they are well placed to make the comparison and its one way traffic. Nobody sells fractal gear to go Line 6 do they?

On 11/10/2022 at 8:19 PM, PierM said:

 

Dont want to open another fractal can of worms, but when you spend 3, 4, or 5K on a piece of hardware, that it's also being used by your guitar heroes, you have the most powerful placebo effect available on the market, right there.

 

On a blind test, you'll get completely different numbers. :)

 

StatingTheObvious Mode OFF/

There's a reason why the biggest artists use fractal, its the benchmark for modelling, there's no shame in being honest here.

There's no point trying to diminish the reality of it. If all modellers were considered of equal quality those artists wouldn't all be using the same o e would they?

Helix is perfectly good at a lot of stuff but it's not the best thing out there.

On 11/10/2022 at 4:55 PM, MayPRS said:

So...

 

I've been using the HX Effects as my main effect unit for some time now. 

 

I would like to try out/expand into the amp + cab realm, as a unit I can take anywhere and just plug into a mixer and have my sound.

 

Helix LT or Floor (but probably LT) are obvious choices but, I'm not gonna lie... the Fractal FM-3 sounds absolutely amazing. Even factory presets are superb and the amps are just to die for.

 

I know this is a Line6 forum but wanting to upgrade which route would you go? Bare in mind that I want/need the best amp + cab emulations as possible, in this price range of course, so I can ditch the heavy amps.

 

3.5 firmware wanted me to stick with Helix (already know my way on HX Edit, etc) but, when I hear those FM-3 demos, oh man... in total honesty I didn't heard the 3.5 amps + cabs (I read that the cabs really improved)...

 

Thoughts?

 

P.S. - I don't want to start a debate or discussion of Line 6 vs Fractal - it's really not the point. Just the best unit I can buy in the 1400-1500 EUR Range. if any of the mods/admins find this topic out of place or have any concern - please delete it!

 

 

 

 

I've looked at this scenario myself but elected to stay with my Helix due to funds really but also in the meantime I've become better at dialling it in too.

Anyway, if you really want the absolute best whatever the cost, it would have to be Fractal to be honest. The A-list artists using their stuff speaks for itself, plus if you go over to the Fractal forum, take a look at how many ex Helix owners there are there, that also tells a story because it doesn't really happen the other way around.

Said it many times, Helix is still best bang for buck but the concensus is pretty clear over there with owners of both, which is better sounding, even if it is fairly close

On 10/31/2022 at 3:16 PM, datacommando said:

 

Even with the IRs all these "sound like whoever" are usually going to be a total waste of time!

 

If you don't have the same setup, strings, technique or skills as the original artist, they actually should be named "my feeble attempt to recreate something in my basement that may be slightly similar to that which a famous guitar player spent a small fortune to record in a state of the art studio along with experienced audio engineers"

 

But hey, it's somewhere to start.

 

;-)

Agreed it is a rabbit it hole when you get deep in to it.

However I have had quite good success with my helix and IR's in tone matching some of my favourite players

And it's not always by using the digital equivalent in the Helix of the real gear, it quite often comes down to how

Well you know your Helix. 

The only tone I can't nail at the moment accurately is the rockman x100.. even with rockman IR's ironically

On 11/2/2022 at 11:26 AM, brue58ski said:

Doesn't Joe use a Fractal Ax FX product? Don't know if it's just for FX or he actually uses the modeled amps.

He does have an Axe fx III but used sansamp on his last album. He seems to change gear all the time for albums, live may be more consistent gear

Just stock cabs, you don't need more... that made me chuckle.

I can virtually guarantee without IR's, that won't sound anything like Satriani's tone

when you get the patch into your Helix 

On 10/19/2022 at 9:26 PM, Bofillrafael said:

Hi everyone, i am Rafael from Chile.


I am really worried about my hardware...
I have tested everthing what you can imagine, i saw a lot of videos on YouTube ( i saw a lot of video of Jason Sadites), i also saw videos in my Spanish languague....i aslo read the User Manual.
And i tried around the "impadance" on the global Settings, i tried around the Guitar in Pad, also i tried in the other parameters with "inputs/outputs" signal, i mean LINE/Instrument...all of these according my equipment...

I tested in my KRK Rokit 5 and in my passive monitores powered with its amp...

I cannot find the good sound on a simple chain like "tubescreamer 808 + Peavy 5150" or "tubescreamer and marshall jcm800"....i am not doing mention about delays or reverb, because i know that to get a good sound before that, first i need to take a good distortioned guitar sound....
When i do Palm Muting, the sound i can´t , i simply cannot hear our great sound like a "chug chug chug chug", like metallica, megadeth, van halen....noooo!!, it's sounding a guitar very deep, very dark and with no tone, with any soul, with nothing of armonics, is a very bad sound with no soul....

But to finish this part: I download Helix Native, i tested the factory Presets, and Woooahhh,, sounds much better, with no edition...i could feel my guitar....after that i created my own preset, and wow, yes! i could do it....
So, yeah, i know how to manage this software, but in my real hardware Helix Floor, it doesn't sound good at all...

(i also updated to 3.15 Firmware)

could be my Helix Floor is damaged?
well, i went to the store to get a solution, but also i would like to hear your experience, and what you think...

Thanks for the patience for read all this story, greetings from Chile.

 

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If you like Helix Native but you don't like your presets when you play through speakers you need to start by looking at those speakers. Helix does have a tendency to easily make dark boomy tones. You can fix that with some editing in combination with suitable speakers.

Are you using FRFR?

On 10/19/2022 at 3:32 AM, JamieCrain said:

I run my LT through two behringer 10” powered speakers. They are loud, and some of my metal patches sound exactly  like the guitar tones I am copying. So big tick for Helix and FRFRs. 

But, I don’t have that amp sound and feel. I just have a loud stereo.

Basically the Behringers sound reallly accurate, but a bit flat. It’s almost like I need a subwoofer to add that low end that you can hear when Ola does his “chug” thing on YouTube. 
I don’t want to buy a sub, I feel like that’s the wrong solution. What I am thinking is that I swap out the Behringers for 2 x 50w 12” Katanas and use the Power Amp In function

and crank them. 
 

My question is, will this new set up add that low end “thump” that you hear through real guitar amps?

 

Or is this what IRs add? (And should I just buy some IRs first. If so, which?). 
 

TIA

Jamie, I've been here mate, same exact issues. I play rock and metal, always searching for great high gain. I've had some good results this year with my Helix floor but I tell you right now, it's a fiddly art full of variables that no one can duplicate for you because your set up, your room, your guitars.. it all changes the results.

What I did - changed my speakers for yamaha HS7's, no sub (don't think you need that), adjusted room control bass and treble on the speakers (cut both i think, can't remember right now). Other recommended speakers would be Adams and G66 Elis - I never tried them but people rave about them.

Ditched the cab sims altogether, got some nice IR's, trim the high gain to anywhere between 5khz to about 10khz (adjusting this for each preset is vital)

Stopped buying custom presets - waste of time. Dial in your own, it's the only way you will get what YOU need.

I now adjust the amp settings by very small margins to get just where I want. Typically the bass is only ever around 3-4 and I can can get some pretty thumpy tones with that.

I can get close tones to what Ola does - obviously you won't get the exact same thing using FRFR speakers as a real amp, for the reasons discussed, but you can still get a damn close tone. I cannot emphasise how important it is to find the sweet spot on the IR high trim, along with the mid, treble and bass values on the amp block. Presence is also very important to get right because it changes the tone from accurate to disgusting.

You may have tried some of this, I know what you're shooting for and you can get close.. with the right variables

A wah type of sound on the preset is quite a specific sound so that doesn't sound right at all.

Two things the Helix is really good at if you're not experienced dialling in tones - honky and muddy, the skill is getting

somewhere in the middle.

Are you using IR's or the Helix cab models?

On 9/27/2022 at 5:18 PM, brue58ski said:

RE Update. I just found out they are not in beta testing yet. I now change my GUESStimate to be end of November to end of December. BIG guess since beta testing hasn't even started. Sigh.

That is a bit disappointing to hear. I was hoping for that by early next year but oh well. How long does it normally take them to produce an update, they seem to have been fairly regular in the past but I suppose this next one is quite a big one.

On 9/16/2022 at 3:43 PM, josehdx said:

I have been reading this topic, and as the commenter above, new things are learned with this kind of conversations, so i guess it can be productive. That said, i guess a lot of people would agree if we hope to have " more DSP power" i am not technical on this kind of DSP topics so i am not sure if a "more powerfull processor" would help when for example, you build a block with multiple Pitch shifter effect (this effects consume up to 50% according to Line6) I am using the Native version so i dont have that problem as it has the hardware. And for the HW version, im not sure if it has bluetooth capabilities, but now, as a personal project, and with arduino, i am trying to build a Digital Whammy Bar (ala, Virtual jeff pro) that will wok only as midi controller, that will change the pitch with the Poly whammy effect in HN. So i will not be out of tune when using the effect. Let see if it works :D   ]

Going back to the "bigger and more powerfull processor", I would hope to see Latancy improvements on the Variax series, as they sound good enough in my opinions, but in youtube you can find people doing test with alt tunnings and accoustic sims at the same time, and on those cases latency goes much higher. 

 

So, time will tell if L6 will improve or abandonce such tecnologies. 

 

Cheers

I don't think dsp is the main thing people look at when comparing competitor units like the Fractal or kemper, it's mainly just the quality of the amp tones and the quality of the effects. If you're a high gain player like I am and someone comes along with a Marshall amp sim that sounds a lot more satisfying than what you're using, it's very tempting to switch or at least check out and that has been the case with the Fractals.

Personally I'm glad I didn't make the switch just because I've recently produced a lot of very satisfying high gain Marshall patches on my helix and I know the user interface so would have to be really tempted at this point to learn a new one. I can see how someone new to the Helix might be discouraged, it takes a lot of learning to craft a really good high gain patch and that's the downside with this unit, however, the results are achievable.

I think what I would like to see in an update would be great tones ready to go in the factory presets. The high gain presets are laughable really

On 9/8/2022 at 6:31 PM, boynigel said:

Update.  After spending two solid days with the FM9 and comparing it with my LT, I’ve sold the FM9.  My main condition for it to retire my LT was simply that it had to sound markedly better.  It did not.  It did sound better “out of the box” as many have said, meaning its presets are better dialed in than Helix presets.  For my uses, I use a handful of “core” amp tones from the Vox, Marshall, Fender, and T-Wreck families (and their boutique knock offs).  When I compared the FM9 sounds (from the same families) to my core tones, they were neither better nor worse.  Any differences could be compensated for quite easily via EQ or a modeled amp’s tone stack.

 

Disclosure- I use my LT into the effects loop returns of my Bad Cat amps, which means I don’t use cabinet modeling or IR’s as I prefer “amp in a room” tones.  Perhaps if I were comparing the full scope of modeling (amp AND speakers, mics, etc), I would have chosen otherwise, but for my needs, the Helix LT remains king because:

 

·         Tonally it’s every bit as good as the Fractal, at least the way I’m using it w/my amps

·         Obviously its UI is far superior

·         Built in expression pedal

·         Better price

·         The updates keep coming!

·         Snapshots are better than Scenes, IMO …and easier to set up

 

…these are just off the top of my head, but the biggest reasons, again, are that the tone is on par, and snapshots.

I will admit that the Helix reverbs can’t compete with the FM9’s cloud style reverbs, but hey- I’m not an ambient guitarist so that’s not a big one on my list…plus i have an Eventide H9 Max if i ever needed "more" out of a reverb.  The Helix can still do some pretty great time-based tricks, just perhaps w/a bit less fidelity than FM9.

 

So yeah, I’m staying put with Helix.  I’m glad I got to try the FM9, but I’m even more glad that my LT is staying, because now I’m saving a ton of money as well as not having to deal with the headaches of learning a less user-friendly system.  Sure, it would be nice to have 4 cores, vs the Helix's 2, but very seldom do i run in to the problem of running out of CPU.

 

Sold the FM9 on CL at a profit (no, I didn’t gouge!) within 4 hours of listing it!

Surprising result and good news for the Helix!

However, seeing as you're not using it as a stand alone device, that does muddy the waters a bit. I would have liked to have known how it stacked up on its own without the real amp in the equation. Interesting though..

On 9/5/2022 at 8:57 PM, boynigel said:

Driving to Fractal on Tuesday to pick it up.  Once I get some time in w/it I can DM you if you're truly curious.

Yep genuinely curious. Everyone to a man I've spoken to who had both devices have said the Fractal wins hands down so I'm not expecting a much different reply! I think you have to accept that when metallica, def leppard, satriani and petrucci etc are all using fractal units, they are the benchmark units.

Helix is't that far behind though, and for me at least I don't want to spend the extra money at the moment lol. I don't think you can DM on here. They disabled it didn't they?

On 9/5/2022 at 8:53 PM, boynigel said:

Well, at least you didn't flat out say, "WRX".  LOL  I drive a 2017 wrx...but I'm 54 and don't drive it like a douche.  I wanted 4-doors, all wheel drive, and a car that could get out of it's own way...and priced under 30 grand as I only drive 8,000 miles a year and can't justify $45,000 for a vehicle.   Not to hijack my own post, ha!

That made me chuckle..

On 9/2/2022 at 9:08 PM, boynigel said:

Life's hard for some people.

Haha I don't know why it's a hard conversation to have. In most cases people who have run the various modellers side by side will always tell you the Fractals and quad cortex do sound better but the Helix wins on practicality which is its big selling point. If you have the funds to sign up for an fm9 I would do it because it's the closest form factor to a Helix. I would be too curious to resist it!

Just as well I'm not on the fm9 waiting list, instead I want to see what line 6 can do in the next update because if they can make an improvement in the sound on the Helix I will be more than happy and it's still the best bang for buck unit out there by a country mile.

If you get your fm9 make sure to follow up with your impression of it, I would be curious to know how you get on compared to your helix

Can't disagree with the recommendations above, but I would suggest checking out Tone Junkies matched IR's because they seem to be getting stellar reviews on that stuff

On 9/1/2022 at 8:25 PM, boynigel said:

anything that would improve sonics (tone) that would narrow the gap in terms of how it compares to the tone of the Fractal stuff.  I'm well aware that it's a narrow gap already...nearly indiscernible (if not totally) in the context of a mix...at least listening to compressed youtube vids.  but as an OCD guitarist, i'm always looking for the best tone i can get.  I think what it's going to come down to, for me, is just buying the FM9 and comparing it side by side w/my LT. 

 

If the FM9 sounds significantly better than the sounds i can dial in on my LT, i'll suck it up and learn the new (fractal) language.  If the tonal differences are like splitting hairs, screw that, I'll sell the Fractal and recoup my money.  I'd rather be playing, and i'm not going to commit to all the time of learning a new language for the sake of something that sounds maybe 3% better.

 

With all that said, my guess is that any update wouldn't improve upon tonal realism of existing models, but rather, all the things we've come to expect from updates- bug fixes, glitches, etc as you mentioned.  I just thought that maybe, given that Helix is getting on in age, that L6 would consider that type of improvement in an update as to hold us over until Helix 2 arrives someday...especially considering all the recent competition, to stop people from jumping ship to things like the FM9.

 

I'm not holding my breath though. 

 

I'm not disappointed w/my LT's tone, but i'm honest enough to admit that if something sounds significantly better, and it's out there, i want it...as long as the learning curve to tonal rewards ratio isn't totally skewed in favor of operational headaches.

I know where you're coming from mate, same here. I've had my Helix for years and I'm happier with it now than I was when I first got it, mainly because it's not the easiest thing to get great tones out of - yes I know some will disagree but as a high gain player, you do have to experiment a bit to get good stuff, it's certainly not out of the box, and the factory presets are shocking, they probably lose more sales due to those things. 

Having looked at the Fractal stuff in depth over the last year, there's no question it does have the edge in the amp tones, it's easier to get great sounding tones more quickly. Whatever anyone says, you have to be honest about this. There are far too many people who have gone from Helix to fractal to ignore that, not many go the other way, not to mention the major artists who are using fractal. Now having said all that, I chose not to make the move to Fractal because I started getting better results with the Helix, and as has been posted here recently, there was a suggestion that the next update would bring improvements in the tones, so I'm willing to wait for that and see how it works out.

As someone who previously used Alto speakers with the helix, they were the TS210's, they nearly caused me to sell the helix thinking it didn't sound as good as it should. Luckily I just sold the Alto's and kept the helix, got some HS07's and what a difference.

The problem with the Alto's was that they were far too dark and boomy, and they squashed the tone. You may be able to EQ that out, but as a solution to just plug straight into, I thought they were a let down for what I was using them for, they are however quite good PA disco type speakers, probably because they have the low end.

The HS07's plugged straight in and were a massive improvement straight out of the box - so I would be wary of Alto's unless you've tried them with your gear and had a good result.

So the OP is obviously a bit of a gear head just looking for something a bit newer or newer tech etc, the Helix is what, 7 years old? So it's not a new platform. It's a hard one to answer because the big players at the moment, Helix, Axe III, Kemper, none are new but frequently updated. If you want the best platform with the most options, you would end up with one of those, but if you're looking for a newer platform then it would have to be the Quad Cortex, that's a newer unit, interesting and high quality - but lacking the overall variety of the others.

I suppose the real question is, what's more important... a unit that can give you the best results or just something newer that you've not used before?

I've had an in depth look at all of these units but I've come back to the Helix, simply because I realised I wasn't getting the full potential out of it and I'm still

discovering new ways of getting results - and bang for buck there is nothing better, the fact that it's not new tech is irrelevant, but if I really wanted to lose all

of the variety of the Helix for something just newer, I would go for a Quad Cortex and accept it's still waiting on updates and improvements etc.