jondufour

I've done this like 5 times already in the last few months...I'm in IT and I swap computers like underwear...

Install the Helix editor software, then connect helix via USB. It will be just like how you used it on your old computer, it won't erase anything.

thank you I was just wondering how the new strats were I know the sound is a combination of effects amps so on but I just wanted a good strat sound, all of the strats I've owned were highway ones.They werent the greatest.

If the guitar plays great, get different pickups.

If the guitar plays badly, get a fret level and setup, if still bad, then a different guitar

The sound is the pickups, preset, speakers.

Musically....that's your hands.

by the way, you can find guitar kits and build your own strat for much less than the cost of a pre-made high end one.

Me tones for sure. Been in both full time cover bands and original bands. I've always strived for my own sound and one that worked the best with the band.

And honestly...I think I spend more time refining my vibrato than I do tweaking on my tone.

I'd love the opportunity to listen to the mutlitracks of some favorite tracks to explore this. Not usually possible though. There's a smattering of that sort of material out there, no idea where it comes from, but I'd love to pick and choose.

I usually search youtube for the song adding on 'isolated guitar' and there is a lot out there.

Yep cause (duh) we all hear different. There was a pink noise generating rack mounted box I believe made by Peavey years ago that "eq'd" a room using a special mic. I had one and it worked well. You ran it for a few minutes with mic on a stand in FOH some distance back... Sorry Im rambling...  :P

I remember a guy who had one of those and yes it did work great but utterly pissed every one off when he did it.

Yeah sounds more complicated the way you're wanting to do it.

I use Reaper and just import the backing track to it's own track, probably takes 4 seconds.

(There are ways to get an .mp3 from a youtube video anyhow.)

That's interesting. I was using my TS-9 because I felt it sounded different enough from the Helix's TS-808 model that it was worth having as another option. To my ears, the TS-808 model has a bit warmer gain, while the TS-9, at least my unit, is capable of cleaner settings. I usually kept it set as an almost clean boost. I moved the TS-9 to another pedalboard a couple months ago, which reminds me: it would be really cool if Line 6 could add the TS9 as a "version" option within the TS-808 model, like they have with the OCD.

It definitely sounded different, I just didn't care for it. At first I thought it was odd as it was a perfect match for my JCM-800 back in the day and perhaps this one just isn't great with the Helix. I didn't delve real deep with it or try it with a lot of different amps in the Helix, I connected it, played with the dials a bit, compared against the modeled tube screamer and was nope, I like the modeled one better.

I suppose I'm also  trying to get away from "what" I'm using and just go with whatever gets the sound I like. Example, I don't think the JCM-800 in the Helix sounds anywhere near what my JCM-800 sounded like but the JTM-45 with the gain and master on 10 and the bias at 7.5 sure as heck does and is the rock tone I like (and with the right IR). I also really like the minotaur in front of that.

One time after a gig and everyone in the club had left, I turned my JCM800 to 10. Yep, it was loud. Did that a few times at home with my ol' Randall RM-100 too.

But ya know.....

My Helix into my alto's and friedman asm-12....easily just as loud and it has that same awesome feeling if you ask me. 

This was still cool because it's not often you get to play a vintage Marshall like that....I also liked seeing what they chose to play :)

Just last weekend I hooked up my 90's TS-9 to find out the Tube Screamer modeled in the Helix sounded drastically better. I was like...hmmmm, ok then, and put the real TS-9 back in the closet.

It sounds great and I want to mess around with what you guys are doing, for a recording patch. But I can't see me ever wanting to haul two monitors to achieve that live.

I totally hear you, I want my rig to be as compact and light as possible. Too many years lugging tube heads...but, I got the Alto TS212 monitors recently and it's crazy how light they are and how good they sound for guitar at the same time.

But someday....In Ear's....oh yea.

Do you guys use the two amp patches live or just for recording. I listened to the original video through headphones, so I really got the effect. It seems like you'd lose most of it live, unless you were going through FOH. Trying to hear it back on a monitor might change the playing dynamics.

Primarily I use it live but my PA is also stereo. We have two guitars in the band so panning them out a bit in the PA is nice.

The XLR's go to the board and I use two powered monitors that I feed using the 1/4 outs from the Helix so I still have stereo all the time. I can also skip the 1/4's and use a pair xlr bus sends from the mixer if I need to mix in my vocal. Always depends on how the setup goes, how much room, etc. Eventually I would love to get stereo IEM's but that's $$$ I don't have at the moment, maybe eventually.

My primary main reason for using a dual amp patch is the tone I get from it. I really dig being able to have a effect on one amp and not the other, have one with more gain, etc but I want it to compliment. There are just so many possible things that the dual paths opens up, I was messing with the bubble tremolo on just the plexi side last night and getting this cool swimmy kind of thing.

Lol.  I'm a server-storage developer, and may have been known to bring home a few IEC cords and extensions of various lengths.  :)  And cable wraps that come with rack rails.  Maybe.  

Yeah the reality is most of them are tossed into a box with the rest and they'll go unopened and eventually sent to surplus because there are too many taking up space. So the load gets lightened a little bit.

( I have no knowledge of the aforementioned conversation )

Also in IT ....I've got tons of those IEC extension cables that came with servers, those are super handy for live setups.

Thanks for the reply, regarding 'The EQ is for rolling off low and high and boosting the overall level a little bit more'

 

I have heard many people tell me they do this but so far I have not been able to get my ears liking rolling off the highs and lows

in fact I generally boost them..but trying different versions for sure...

 

MJ

I'm using the 10-band EQ and I totally cut out the very low and very high, those really aren't there for a guitar anyway so I yank them out completely. I then will bring down 4K to taste (1 or 2 db, its subtle) and boost 1K about .5 or +1db. I just want to pull off a tiny bit of that edge on the highs but not so much that it reduces the presence of the guitar.

250hz I'll bring down a bit to remove some boomyness and make the low end feel tight but this is also to taste. Mostly it's the outer frequencies of the guitar that I'm just trimming lightly and a little extra bump in the middle just makes the notes in the middle of the guitar pop better in the mix.

Then just some extra level, about +1db or so to give extra life to the guitar. 

I put this right before the amp as I'm interested in affecting how the guitar signal appears before it hits the amp. I don't really care for it at the end of the chain personally.

I also roll off the low and high in the IR's but I don't get extreme with that, just get the frequencies that are more "noise" dipped out. I don't really go below 8khz rolling off the high in the IR for example. The IR is the last block in my chain.

Yes, I'm doing dual amps and panned hard left and right. I'm currently using a JTM-45 on the left with a Plexi bright on the right.

I don't have a picture handy but I'll try and explain as simply as I can.

Guitar signal comes in on Path 1A and goes to a pitch whammy, FX loop 1, Volume, tube screamer, Dyna-comp and a 10-band EQ then it splits. 

On path 1B is script phaser to a timmah over drive to the jtm-45 and an IR then out Left.

On path 2A is a plastichorus to the Plexi  to a tape echo then to an IR then out Right

path 1A split routes to path 2A.

Path 1B split routes to the Left multi out.

Path 2A (input set to none) routes to the Right multi out

I use the pitch whammy for on the fly detuning, the FX loop is my wah pedal, tube screamer is lead tone, the dyna-comp is my secret sauce, ratio at 5:1 level at +8db as this drives the amps just oh so nicely. The EQ is for rolling off low and high and boosting the overall level a little bit more. I like this because this part of the signal chain affects both amps.

The timmah is just for over driving the jtm-45 a bit more, the plastichorus on just the Plexi with the tape echo between the amp and IR is just awesome. 

I really prefer to use my effects for creating a tone vs "oh, that's chorus" or "oh, that's phaser". I like it to blend in and others have to ask what the heck I'm using.

The amp gains and volume's are on 10 and the bias is around 7, most of the other settings are default, a little extra mid on the plexi.

and your guitar sound in the video is awesome.

Thank you guys!!! I wasn't aware I could change what the volume knob is controlling in the globals and this is perfectly what I was wanting to do.

Again....always a way with the Helix!

Is it possible to control the volume outputs between the XLR outputs (to the mixer) and the 1/4's (to FRFR monitors) separately? 

From what I understand the Volume knob controls them both equally so I'm thinking not possible but there always seems to be a way with the Helix.

I send line level out the 1/4's to the FRFR's while the board gets mic level from the XLR's.

Reason for my question is the volume knob on the FRFR's is on the back and it would sooooo much more convenient to just reach down on the Helix and be able to turn those up and down without messing with the input to the mixer.

I'm a little confused...

 

Are you linking the volume knob of the Helix to the signal out to the Friedman?  And you're saying that you when the signal out was at 50% or so it was fizzy, but as you cranked it to 80% or 90% the fizziness went away?

 

Does the Friedman have a volume control?  Did you try setting the Helix Volume Knob to max, then control max volume at the Friedman?  Would that improve things further?

 

I am by NO MEANS an expert, but it's always been my thought that I want the max volume coming out of my device, and I control the gain at the "board" or output device.

 

I'm still trying to figure out the link between Drive, Master, and Volume on the amps and how to best get them set.  Live I'm planning on balancing whatever presets I'll be using to each other and unlinking the Volume knob from whatever my outputs I'm using.  This should basically then be outputting to FOH and monitors at Unity from the Helix... 

 

I'm sure there are others out there with much more experience and knowledge than me who have this or other ideas on this subject.

 

I may be doing my first live gig with the Helix next week, so it's crunch time on getting my rig set up appropriately... O_O

Physical Master Volume knob on the Helix at 75% or greater. Physical volume control on the Friedman at 50% (otherwise it would be earth shattering loud and it's still dang loud at 50%) Helix Volume knob not linked to anything.

Prior I was setting my Friedman (because it's a speaker with a power amp in it) at 90% and then bringing up the volume knob on the helix, similar to how you set power amps at full volume then bring up the faders.

I'm not certain if the fizzyness went away due to having the Helix's volume knob up much higher or just due to how severely I set the high cuts on the IR and every other block that has a high cut option.

What I definitely got was full body, dynamic pick attack and life in the tone and any number of adjectives that fit.

UPDATE:

CRISIS AVERTED!!

Whew....and I am super relieved.

Using the Friedman here's what I did.

1. I did not re-load 2.20, that was going to be my last resort

2. Verified all the global settings were set correctly and they were

3. Global EQ off

4. Started on a new clean user preset, added a Brit 2204, OwnHammer IR at 1024 and a plate reverb with 30% mix

5. Set the IR's low cut to 90hz and set the high cut to 7khz

6. Set amp block's channel output to 7.5

7. Set the Friedman's output to 50%

8. Set the master volume out on the Helix to 75%

9. All blocks at 0.0db and Noise Gate OFF

10. Connect Les Paul with a cable

11. Open E major strummed with vigor

Absolutely massive improvement coming from the Friedman and drastically better still than the previous weekend I had mentioned.

I then began dialing in the amp block's gain, master volume, bass, mid, treble, bias, sag, etc.

I ended up with 100% zero fizzy upper end on top of the guitar's sound whatever you want to call it. I would honestly say it's the closest I've ever come to "my tone" that I've ever had from any digital device. Rolling guitar's volume off a little cleaned up nicely with no "under a pillow" happening and dynamics with pick attack are all there.

So what really was it? Primarily it was the balance between the Friedman's output setting and the Helix's Master Volume and then after that it was high cut on the IR and taking that down from 10 where I was setting it to 7. I was setting the Friedman to 80% and then bringing up the Helix Volume which would end up with the Helix at 30% - 40%. There's obviously something about the signal and that knob.

I tried the IR's high cut down to 5 and then further down till the good high's starting to go away so I used the treble on the amp block to get them to smooth out better.

I also played with the pad on the guitar and don't need that, my pickups aren't high output anyway.

I also noticed the tone with the IR at 1024 is better than it is at 2048.

And in the end what about the headphones? 

Yeah they still suck but not as bad as the preset is better tuned and I was really beginning to freak out about how it was sounding through the Freidman as that's more important. I did do some recording and played it back through the Friedman and it was identical. So, I think I'll go looking for some studio monitors or something and forgo the headphones.

then what about the comparison to S-Gear? Yep, S-Gear is still better sounding after all that but's it's not such a huge difference now and I know I can squeeze out more from the Helix since I figured out what was happening. I did also try the Helix's master volume at 80% and 90% and it does continue to improve, albeit just a little but it's audible.

I can likely add an EQ to the preset and get some of that "glassiness" that S-Gear has.

Bottom line, I'm super relieved, I'm happy, it now sounds fine and it was clearly my user error with the master volume output of the Helix. I would surmise that if I had some other attenuation on the headphones I could turn the headphone output up high and they would sound fine.

It is certainly possible to get great tones out of Helix. Here's a great example of how: https://youtu.be/xbyd9mXo6rM. Helix and S-Gear sound different, and that's good since they both sound excellent. If you want a more reasonable comparison, you need to use the same IR (speaker, mic and mic position) in both since the speaker model has a huge impact on the overall tone. But all this comparing things and trying to make them sound the same isn't really using them to create music. I can get very satisfactory sounds out of both and use them both, but for different purposes.

Yep, I've seen that one, I started watching vid's on the Helix last Nov, and got mine about 30 days ago. I just about knew how to operate it before I even got it, minus the shortcuts it does :) but I've probably watched 100 videos on the Helix by now. There are totally people getting some killer tone out of it, Pete Thorn has got some nice reviews on it

I'm not trying to get anything to sound the "same" as far as copying a tone, what I'm talking about is the dynamics, body, liveliness that a real amp does that it seemed to be doing in the earlier weeks I had it and then in the past days it just seems like it suddenly went small and covered up, like it's fighting my fingers almost. It's hard for me to explain.

Prior to trying the S-Gear software I was already thinking something was off, firing up S-Gear just really made it really obvious, even my wife could tell. My intent has been to get some recording done with it but instead this whole last week has been trying to get a tone out of it that is usable. On my laptop I think I still have some stuff I recorded with it in the first week.

I had been using the headphones all week till a little bit last night into the Friedman which as I mentioned previously was better, but not what it had been.

I'm gonna do a bunch of tests with it this evening including re-load the 2.20 firmware doing all the proper resets and I'll let you know what happens. 

Headphones in mine sound good enough. They still sound like headphones, of course. Are you sure yours doesn't have a defective headphone jack? Do you have access to another Helix or to a Guitar Center where they will let you plug into one with your headphones and see if they sound the same?

I don't hear any high pitched fuzz through mine; then again, I could just be deaf above 10 Khz.

Unfortunately the Guitar Center in my town won't carry the Helix in stock as they don't stock items in the upper price range for this demographic. I have to order everything, which means nothing to compare against sadly.

I do have another pair of headphones I'm bringing home from work, which are nothing special over the ear $40 headphones but it will be something to compare against.

That's not really true... I've played plenty of amps that don't work well with pedals, and certain amps I never could tame to my liking. I used to have a Vox AC15, for example, and I always thought it was very easy to make it sound harsh. It was actually after hearing a recording of me using it live that I decided that it wasn't worth keeping it anymore.

 

I can't say why you're having trouble finding tones in the Helix that work for you... My experience hasn't really been like that. I do rarely use headphones, though. I pretty much hate the experience regardless of what's coming out them.

It's plenty true enough and yes some amps just suck. Yes, you can take any amp and turn the treble to 10 and it won't be a good time. 

I think others in that thread I just linked are explaining it better than I.

Just came across this thread,

http://line6.com/support/topic/22672-fizzstaticblown-speaker-sound-across-the-board/

Exactly to a tee what I'm experiencing. Sounded great out of the box and for the last few weeks then this weekend just like everything is dead'ish. I'm going to try re-flashing 2.20 this evening and see what happens. If it comes back to life like another person experienced then I'll have send it back, can't have that happening in another 3 weeks or so down the road.

made a similar experience with the headphone out and posted it months before.

 

I understand that different headphones may be different in sound as they are vary with every other audio signal. But: I recognize the sound of a Marshall Amp when listening with different headphones, high end loudspeakers or the cheap kitchen radio. For shure with differences, but with the same character.

With the helix, the sound of different speakers or headphones is variing far more than from other sources and this makes it difficult to dial a sound in or to use patces other people builded. Perhaps this is the reason why sounds from others often are not satisfying in another environment.

In my opinion (i know that this is subjective and worthless), every output of a modelling amp should give s signal of a miced cab (if dialed in), without hiss and noise wich makes it necessary to use additional high-cut, as the original guitar speaker does'nt reproduce these high frequencies. So why it is necessary to reduce high frequencies if they should'nt appear in the signal?

This point changes from source to source but seems always to be necessary to me if i don't use guitar speakers. I simply cannot understand why?

 

For my headphones, i helped myself by inserting thin felt sheets (2 sheets per side seems the best with my hps) to reduce hiss that never would come out of a real guitar speaker.

 

So i see two possibilities for this hiss and lifeless flat sound:

 

1. The modelled speakers have a wider frequency response then the originals. Why???

2. The models represent speakers miced just on axis in the middle of the high beam of the guitar speaker. A position, nobody wants to listen to when not using a acoustic guitar. Nobody would mike a guitar speaker like this, so what's the reason? Some people turn their amp on stage for some degrees, others use tools as deeflex to avoid thhis high beam (wich is physically not to avoid with a 10" oder 12" speaker), but the helix seem to make a feaure out of it.

 

That's the point why i suggested different microphone angles i ideascale, but for the most users, still more amps seem to be way more important.

Yep, I agree 100%. There is no guitar amp that outputs that hissy noise in the frequencies above the guitars sound. I've used JCM800, 5150, 5150II, Randall RM100, Mesa (always used the same Marshall cab with Celestion 70 watt) and never had a problem getting a good tone. My pedals were TS9, Crybaby Wah and sometimes a flanger or phaser.

I've tried other Line6 devices over the years, POD, XT live, HD500X and they seemed to have that upper hissness to them. Although I don't recall that at the moment with the Eleven Rack I had. I'm contemplating picking up an Eleven Rack again just to compare. I had a G-System paired with that one for floor control.

On the Helix right away I roll off that high end using the high cut on the IR and on every other block I add which helps but I agree it just shouldn't be there to begin with. I can hear it so easily when playing too. The headphones are more significant of course since they reveal everything.

IR's are done with mics at different angles and I've been using the OwnHammer IR's the last couple weeks but I still have to use the high cut and some extensive tweaking.

In the Analog world if you take a guitar, plug in a few pedals, connect to the amp, connect the speaker and bam, there's smooth tone. That's what the Helix should be doing too and I believe it could. I suppose the question is why isn't it? I think it's clearly all in the software. The revelation I've just had with S-Gear clearly says it can be done, crossed my mind I could just bring my laptop with me, ha.

I did have an idea this morning for a different setting with the volume outputs vs. the block volumes which I'll try when I get home. I have been running all the blocks at 0db with the IR's around -14db.

I might be complaining a bit and I'm trying not too, I've had the Helix for a month and at first it seemed really good, not awesome, but pretty darn good then over the following weeks I'm becoming more aware of the same ol' problem they always seem to have.

But again, I had it going to the Friedman and was playing it loud and it was really good, so I don't know, maybe I just suddenly picked up on the deficiency or something.

Personally I only need two amps, one that can do a cleaner tone and one that can do a good gain then use pedals to boost up gain on either one to varying degrees.

I do really want the helix to work for a good sound since it's design for live playing is so exceptionally well done and I'm so past done carrying 75lbs of amp and cab around.

sorry a bit long and rambly and I suck at writing.  :)

Did a quick test with the Friedman, yes much much better.

Then I changed to an empty patch Helix and turned on S-Gear which is going back through the Helix to the Friedman. And hands down, blew away the tone from the Helix's amps. I didn't even change anything on S-Gear just turned it on and selected the Plexmonster patch. People call it the "amp in the room" these days but I've always described it as the sound is coming out the "front" of the cab rather from "in" it.

Hmmmm, maybe as amsdenj mentioned, the S-Gear is just built up in a different way or has some other magic and that's what I discovered today. 

The Helix into the Friedman does sound fine and will work and it will be good enough for live, it's designed exceptionally well for live use, maybe I'm feeling a little taken aback by though by what I've come across today.