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Doug6String

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Posts posted by Doug6String

  1. I don't think your missing anything tone wise. Since I do gig, dragging two cables for me is a big consideration.

    I revised my patch a little and uploaded the new version. I moved the LP/HP filters into the cabs to make room for a compressor on the mag path. I like this lead tone a little better.

     

    https://line6.com/customtone/browse/helix/#

    Great - thanks for the reply.  I'll try the preset later tonight!

  2. I got the Parker cable which comes out of the stereo output of the JP15 and into my Helix with two mono plugs. I created a Helix patch that uses the Guitar In for the mags and the Aux In for the piezos. Snapshot 1 has all blocks active so you can switch between the mags and piezo on the guitar. Snapshot 2 is boosted just for the mags, for a crunchy rhythm. Snapshot 3 has an OD for the mags only, for lead and solo work. It works really well and has given me a reason to start playing my JP15 more. Here's a link for anyone that wants to give it a go:

     

    https://line6.com/customtone/browse/helix/#

    Cool - I'll try your preset too.  I have a cable from the mono and another from the stereo jacks on the JP going to the Helix guitar in and aux, and I have a preset with a path for each of them.  This gives me the piezos and mags on their own Helix paths and this works exactly as I want.  I don't think a Y cable gives me more than this, but I thought I'd ask you - any benefit I'm missing?  Thanks!

  3. Has anybody from line6 confirmed or denied the existence of squirrels?

    I was a fizz sufferer early this year when I got my rack and this forum quickly fixed me and my Helix (and Native) have been essential ever since.  In my research on the forum back then (I hope I'm remembering correctly), there was a lot a talk about how the Helix had more frequencies than you get from a guitar amp/speakers and that there wasn't anything wrong with it - you needed to know how to get the tone you want.  Whatever I learned then worked - I never have fizz issues and I love my tone(s).

    Of course we still get newbies with the fizz/tone issues and they get directed toward the numerous threads that help, like I did.

    I thought this was understood and documented (how to get rid of fizz and get tone), but maybe not?

    It's just one data point, but I don't hear any difference in the Helix tone.  I'm using my fav presets now like I was before the update and if there's a difference, it's imperceptible to my ears.

    Still an interesting topic!

  4. When I first got native, what I did was this :

    I recorded a track on two channels simultaneously, one dry and one processed by the Helix Rack. I then added Helix Native on the dry track, with exactly the same preset loaded.

     

    I couldn't hear a difference at all.

     

    If you're doing AB tests, make sure the source material is the same (I saw someone mention a difference in playing... not sure which method the OP used).

    Also make sure that you're using the same interface for output to your speakers (whether it's the Helix or a different interface), because the DA conversion has to be the same.

     

    I suppose that it's possible that your DAW makes it sound a little different though. I don't know what type of magic DAWs do under the hood, but if for instance the volume of the track that it's sending to native is slightly different, that could impact the sound. 

    I'm with you on this.  I was curious about this a while back because Native seemed to sound the same but I wanted to know.  I copied some presets out of my Helix rack and put them and the same IRs in Native and did some recording.  Maybe some spectral analysis could find a difference but sure can't hear any the way I tested, which is admittedly very simple.

  5. How does everyone handle guitars with Piezo pickups?  I was thinking of running it through the aux input into a path of it's own.  Is that what everyone else is doing?  Thanks for your help.

    I just got a JP15 7 string not more than a month or so ago.  It's an amazing guitar.  I hadn't tried using both outputs on the guitar yet until your post (just been playing it). I was using the mono output to Helix guitar in and using the guitar to select the piezos, mags, or both.  So I tried using the guitar mono out to Helix guitar in and the stereo out to the Helix aux in.  This is really cool!  In the Helix I have one path for mag pups (a clean tone) and the other is an acoustic IR for the piezos.  I haven't spent much time messing with all the variables yet, but panning 100% L and R for each path with both pups selected sounds great, more like two separately recorded guitars played at different times than the exact same playing.  I'm surprised!  Thanks for enhancing my fun!

  6. Your approach is diff from mine (fremen presets) so I see your issue.  I make all my own so I'm less likely to have as many issues.  Every couple months I get the bug to work on my IRs.  I did this recently and spent a day seeing which ones I don't use, and taking them out and putting the remaining ones in a rationale order then fixing all my presets.  If I was still working I wouldn't have the time for that!  Now that I think about that, it really sucked!  The help page has the IR manager for Macs but I don't think there's one for Windows yet and it probably won't solve our problems anyway!

  7. I have a Helix too (rack version), and while it' could be annoying there, it's acceptable. In plugin land, it's expected that you can't break one song from within another song... or at least, that's what I've grown to expect. I'm very disorganized, but so far, I've never had to worry about plugins that have this risk.

     

    The thing is, I would want them to fix this, but in order to make an ideascale suggestion, I'd need a suggestion for an actual solution, something that doesn't complicate the plugin too much but does the trick... All I can think of is an "IR library lock" button, which basically saves the entire plugin library with the preset, but I'm not sure if that's ideal. At least it would allow us to protect tracks, even though it would still be possible to forget to lock the library

     

    I have the rack too.  It's like work - don't come with a problem if you don't have a solution!  Helix and Native are both amazing (at least to me).  I've done some sound comparisons and I can't tell Native from "the real thing."  Been doing some recording, as usual, and both continue to amaze me.

     

    Since this is kind of about IRs, I really enjoy the IR discussions on the Helix Forum.  That's all I use (no cabs) and it is amazing how everyone (me too, of course) has IRs from one maker that sound better than other makers and everyone is so passionate about which ones are best.

  8. Thanks for checking...

     

    I find this a little bit alarming. Imagine your IR library being full, and you want to try out some new ones. So you have no choice but replacing some... And unless you keep notes, you risk changing how existing songs sound. That's a bad thing.

     

    They should add some sort of "store IR in patch" option in the plugin. Of course this could make transferring patches to the hardware a little bit trickier, so they would have to put some thought into it :)

    It's the same as the Helix, which I have, so I guess I'm just used to it.  All my IR names have the same number as it's location and I drag IRs out and stick others in for evaluation.  I'm pretty methodical so I don't mess up too much.  But yeah, you need good notes or you're hosed!  Been there, done that!

  9. Hi,

     

    I haven't done much with Helix Native yet, and there's something I'm wondering about.

     

    If I change the IRs in my library, is this a global thing? IE if I overwrite an IR, will this change the sound of existing songs when I open them?

    Seems to me like it would, but on the other hand, the whole idea is that presets are saved in the tracks, so it would be sort of annoying to change the way tracks sound without even touching them directly.

     

    Thanks!

    To answer your question directly, in my test, yes.  I was wondering something similar so I tried looking at your question and my own.  In a simple test of just changing the IR in a particular IR location (not in the preset), the presets that uses that IR location will use the new IR.  That makes sense to me and is not surprising.  I do note that in probably all DAWs you can render the track and use the current IR and if you change that IR it won't impact the sound.  What is more relevant to me is, I used a Native preset that was already saved and I changed the IR in the preset (not globally in the IR list) and I changed an amp setting.  I did not save that changed preset, but I saved the song in my DAW.  When I reopened the song, the changes I made were there - very cool and as one would hope.  When I put the original preset  on a new track, it was not changed, which also makes sense.  

  10. Oh, its beyond fantastic! Its the only DAW that gives me the flexibility to work within my workflow whether its direct/focused, or experimentation... whether its linear, or not!

    The devs are constantly improving it. It also has some pretty grand trajectories planned for its next release FLS 20! All for free to us registered users.  ;)

     

     

    To the OP:

    Studio One, and Cubase are great in their ways too. Honestly those are the only other 2 premium DAWs that I would consider other than FL. I have even demo'd a few of the other "popular" options as well. 

    If your Devs are open to discussion on the forums of the Presonus site, you could bring this up to them. May end up helping them track something down.  Though if I am being completely honest Louisiana boys are pretty stubborn to deal with. I know because I have lived here most of my life, (can't wait to get out) but this is also where Presonus is headquartered.  I haven't dealt with them any, but hopefully they are more reasonable than most around these parts. lol  :lol: Seriously it wouldn't hurt to bring it up on their forums as well.

    I'm glad I could serve as a vehicle for you and Fr0sty to bond over FL Studio!  :D  Earlier this year I switched from another DAW I used for a decade to Studio One because of Native glitches that DaW acknowledged!  Wasn't that a smooth move!  I actually like S1 a lot and will use the workarounds.  Thanks for the help (and entertainment).

  11. I don't know that changing from two Native instances each running a relatively simple patch to a single instance running a much more complex double path patch is going to save much CPU, and it will be a lot more complex to set-up in the DAW.

    Unless you are doing real-time control I would suggest Freezing tracks (rendering with option of returning to pre-render state) - this can include automation.

     

    I did do a little bit of googling and discovered that the problem is likely to be Studio One: there are a few threads about very high CPU usage with VST, in one example a user tested using Perfect Drums on a two bar loop and on the same PC: Studio One and Cubase were at 100% CPU (all cores), Logic was at 75% of just a single core and Reaper was only 1.09%.

     

    This can explain why my toy laptop using Reaper can run more than your high spec laptop using Studio One. It is all about how the DAW instantiates the VST and communicates with it - Reaper is obviously coded very efficiently while this aspect leaves something to be desired for Studio One and Cubase. I am not going to suggest changing DAW as that is your choice but there are a few suggestions on this thread such as tweaking buffer sizes that may help you (before it all breaks down into fanboy bickering):

     

     

    https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=24534

    Thanks.  And if Fr0sty is reading, thank you too.  I actually did search and try to find info but the Presonus thread escaped me.  It's great you took the time.  And after reading that thread, once again I am thrilled to be part of this Forum and the Helix Forum!  This really does make it clear that it is not Native.  I know all the tricks and workarounds and I can live with that because I really like Studio One.  And the easiest thing is to render with the option of reversal, which I do when necessary.  Again, thanks to you and the others for taking the time to help!

  12. Any particular reason you run a unique instance of native for each track?  You could run multiple tracks through one instance of native rather than one track on each channel.

    I assume if you're using different presets on each track you have to have Native running on each track.  If I can have just one instance of Native in a song, that would obviously be great.  I just looked at the manual and did a search online and I don't see anything addressing this.  Can you elaborate or point me to how to do this?  Thanks!

  13. I'm having kind of similar issues.

     

    I run Native in Studio One Pro 3.51 with an i7-7700 Quadcore 2,8 GHz and 32 GB. Interface is a Presonus Studio 68 at 48 kHz.

     

    Opening a blank session, only one mono-audio-track. CPU at 3-4%. As soon as I open a Native Instance the CPU jumps to 50% Minimum and is frantically jumping around up to 100% in peaks.

    As soon as I turn of Native the issue is gone. Increasing buffer size helps but does not really solve the problem (still around 30% CPU).

     

    Any Ideas anyone or do I simply have to wait for future fixes?

     

    By the way, Helix sounds exactly like my LT and Helix Floor. Did a High Gain-Side-by-Side-Comparison. No audible difference. Looking forward to a fixed Release

    Did you ever figure this out?  I have a very similar PC (only diff is 4.2 GHz speed and 16 GB RAM) and use the latest version of Studio One with a Studio 192 and when I use Native it's using 25% of my resources per use.  That's better than your situation, but not workable for any slightly complex song.  I'm not sure if it's Native or Studio One, or both?  Thanks!

  14. Nothing like that; mine struggles a bit with 4 instances and some bridged tape saturation and reverbs but it is only an older i3 with 4G ram and hybrid HDD. And there are some Windows updates that keep failing which it keeps insisting on trying to install.

     

    Is the workload being distributed across multiple cores or is everything running as a single thread? Are you running a 64 bit version of everything?

     

    Freezing is a good idea anyway as it forces you to make a decision about a sound and try to work with it

    I should have added I am running 64 bit and vst3 for Native.  I have 4 cores running so I assume it's running across 4 cores, which is preferred over a single thread.  While only one data point other than me, since you don't seem to have the same issue, I'm thinking there's something not set right for me.  I have done a lot of reading over the years on optimizing a PC for DAW use and I thought I covered everything, but I'll take another look.   Thanks!

  15. When I use Native, my CPU usage for each instance of Native on a track uses 20-25% of my system resources. I have two guitar parts in a song that I double tracked, so I have 4 instances on Native engaged on 4 tracks with nothing else in the song yet. This uses nearly 100% of my system resources and leads to jerkiness during playback. I know I can render (or whatever term your DAW uses) these tracks and that eliminates this issue, and I can "unrender" the tracks if I decide to change Native. But I am wondering if others have a similar experience. I'm probably going to get 32 GB of RAM, which I think will help.

     

    When not using Native, I have had 30-40 tracks including 3 tracks with Superior Drummer 3 and only use 10-15% of my resources.

     

    Anyone else experiencing this?

     

    Thanks - Doug

     

    PC, Windows 10, 16 GB RAM, SSD and HD, i7, 7700, 4.6 GHz processor, 64bit, Studio One 3 DAW, Studio 192 audio interface

  16. I'm with Zooey on this - if you're happy it's better not to ask everyone's opinion on IRs!  I have bought and tried a lot of IRs because it's fun and I can.  And unlike many Helix users, my IR slots are only about half full because in the end I really only use a few.  The IR conversations are really interesting - everyone's taste in IRs is so subjective.  One thing I am certain of is that even within one IR maker, different IRs can really impact tone so the options are endless.  

  17. I've also been using Helix Rack as my interface. Using an empty preset then using the Native plug in for my sounds. This is working well with Logic on a MAC and I have no other interface. It is worth mentioning that you should use a low sample rate and any low latency setting you have in your DAW. Since my rig is so different, this may not be helpful. But just in case!

    Thanks!  I am doing what you suggested and it is all working great.  I am pretty stunned at how Native and the rack seem to be identical in sound, although there are some on this forum having problems getting the tone they want.  Even though I only do home recording (no bands), for me, having the rack is essential and worth every penny for sculpting my tones for eventual use in Native.  Very cool!

  18. I'm finding this too. 

     

    Hey Modern - Native and my Helix rack are pretty much indistinguishable in sound and if you go on the Helix forum you'll find a ton on how to create great tones, and there are an awful lot of people that are really happy with it, including some pros.  I have a custom 24 and a lot of other guitars and I can get great tones for them all now that I understand the Helix, a little.  I think there's a pretty big learning curve because the Helix has almost an infinite number of "knobs" to turn.  If you think of Native as owning Helix floor/rack and look at that forum to get help creating great tones, I think you'll get the input you need.  But my experience, buying a Helix earlier this year, was that simply dialing in a great tone was not possible for me until I got a lot of info from the forum and tried a lot of stuff!  

  19. Wow!  I'm really impressed!  That's a very creative patch (with great improvising) and I have not tried using a dual path the way you did, so thanks for a cool idea.  I love the music, which serves the video well (or maybe you prefer that the video serves the song!).  And of course doing this live online from different locations makes it all the more impressive!  Is that a clip from a movie?  Great job - I really enjoyed it!

  20. What kind of music will you be playing? Seems like only high gain players mention "the fizz". I am not a high gain player and I found that just dropping in an amp/cab model and a parallel reverb/delay sounded glorious to my ears. 

     

    If you already have experience with a few real life amps and effects, Helix works the same way. It is just "virtual". Don't try to make it too complicated. 

    You make a great point for me - it helps to have all the facts before providing advice!

  21. Here's a little advice from a different direction from a newbie who got the Helix early this year.  Many of us are initially shocked at what seems like bad tone.  The forum is filled with discussion related to this, especially fizz.  As far as I have seen, it's always fixable unless there's an actually defective unit (seems really rare).  While not universally accepted, many of us believe the best way to get "your" tone is to create you own presets.  You can learn some cool approaches from others' presets.  And finally, it seems that is can take significant time to really get a handle on the Helix, and I still learn new things all the time, and others have said they are after having it for years.  If you think about all the parameters the amps, speakers, IRs, and all the effects have, the options are almost infinite (slight exaggeration).  My experience, which is someone with digital and modeling experience, is still that the possibilities are staggering.  Point is, be patient and realize really getting control of this thing might take longer than a few weeks.  I don't have a single preset I created early on that I still use.  I'm always learning something new and tweaking things and trying new amps, etc.  Patience my be required!

  22. We certainly don't have to swap out pickups to do any of this and I rarely have any unwanted noise using the Helix/Native.  I play a Guthrie Govan Charvel, Ultra Strat, Godin, PRS, and occasionally a Variax and they all sound pretty different.  Like many on the Helix forum, I create presets for the kind of pickups my guitar has.  Presets I made for the Start sound too thin for my PRS neck pups, for example.

     

    When I first got my Helix I watched some videos, like the first, and copied exactly what they did and it sounded pretty close, if not exact.  On the second one, that's an unusual guitar and will play a role in the tone.  Of course these are two Line 6 guys, so they really know what they're doing!  None of the stock presets sound that good for me, but, those tones are certainly obtainable.

     

    I have a few suggestions.  I'm going to try sending you a couple of my presets through the email feature here.  And I'll make a couple short clips of me using them.  I'll use my Guthrie Govan.  It can be similar to an LP.  A word of caution - I swap presets with a friend and early on I bought presets from some of the "famous" sellers.  They never sound the same for me.  It's the guitar, the headphones, the "who knows what."  But you ought to be able to tweak mine, which are not complex, to get a tone you like, or see how to create your own to get certain tones (sorry - I have no clue on your experience level).  I assume you don't use IRs?  They will NOT fix your issue, but I am one of many that use them so I'll include them so your comparison to my tone is "accurate."  

     

    And if your tone "sucks" after trying my presets, please send me a clip.

     

    The other thing that took my Helix from being a really expensive bad purchase to heaven, was the Helix forum.  There is a ton of discussion on how to get great tone.  You should search that.  This is a very common discussion.  Above I mentioned a couple things that always come up (high cut, create your own presets...).

  23. Thanks for taking your time and replying. I'm aware of many techniques used to enlarge your sound but I'm talking about playing live. There are many videos of someone playing live and I don't get that sound at all. Of course there are videos with Amps and mics and going thru all sorts of units but if we go with some basic setup like for example: guitar -> Helix pedal board -> headphones or guitar -> usb interface -> Helix Native -> headphones. I never sound like they sound in their review videos. I will try to find a video to show my point and post it in the days to come.

    OK.  I'll check back.  Don't give up on Native!

  24. I had a very lengthy discussion off-line with a Helix used on that forum.  He said what your saying.  He directed me to some example videos on youtube and it was all about how those tracks were recorded (typically doubled) and in other cases after doing some research I read that the guitar the person was using has "special" pickups, etc.  Without hearing them or you, we can't give specific advice, but you used the word "lush" which leads me to believe they are double tracking their guitar or using stereo effect and you not.  That's my best guess without any info.  And depending on who you are listening to, they might be selling presets or themselves so they are not just sitting down and playing and recording like us.

     

    I bought the Helix rack earlier this year and Native a couple months ago.  They sound identical and I could literally not be happier with what I can do with them.

     

    On this comment - "For example let's take Helix Native as an example. I could never make my sound like the ones in the demos."  I don't know you, but I disagree with this.  If you record your guitar the way they do (with their guitar and equipment), other than playing style, you can sound exactly like them with Native.

     

    And FYI - I don't even own monitors.  I only use headphones and they are definitely not the issue for you or me unless yours are super cheap.

     

    The other thing to keep in mind is that Native (and the Helix) have infinite possibilities (knobs to turn).  Just think about all the amps you can choose from and and all their settings, and all the cabs, and then all the IRs, effects, etc.  It takes significant time to figure out how to get the tone you want. 

     

    If you want to end the link to some videos you're talking about and a clip of you, I'd be happy to give my opinion.  It took me a long time to convince the other forum member it was how these other guitars were recorded and not his use of Helix, but he finally got it.

  25. Thank u so mush dude...

    I like native but I'm willing to buy a helix LT. Because I'm always thinking LT should makes a better tone.

    I have a great computer with a fine cpu and a Scarlett 2i2.

    Can native and these things(my computer & 2i2) make a similar tone to helix hardware?!?

    If I want a same tone as LT should I buy something else?!?

    Hi - I've had Helix rack since early this year and I love it.  I've had Native for a couple months and the sound is identical for the same preset and I love it and use it all the time for recording.  Bjnette has a good point on levels.  Input and output in Native are critical.  

     

    I also kinda laugh on the fizzy/thin issue.  If you search the Helix forum on that topic, you'll find it's almost endless and new Helix owners regularly post this problem before searching the forum.  It's easily fixable.  I think you're where I was when I first got my Helix rack.  I was disappointed and didn't even like it.  I went to the Helix Forum and it helped my fix this "problem" and now I love it, and because I created all my own presets and use them in Native, I love it too.

     

    You'll see two key things on the forum (and a ton more that might be helpful).  Most of us a high cut, somewhere around 5 kHz.  Where and when you use it depends on you.  Maybe in EQ, maybe elsewhere.  Also, while some people think the stock presets are usable, most of us don't and we create our own presets from scratch.  You should treat native like you just bought a Helix Lt/Rack/floor and read the forum and see how to sculpt your tone.  I am also happy to help since I went though this this year.

     

    If you need more input from me, quote me so I know you responded or you can send me an email directly through this site.  I don't read this forum very often.

     

    I advise you to NOT buy a Helix to get better tone.  There are a lot of other reasons one might want a Helix (I have a lot and love mine) but better tone than Native isn't one.

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