Kilrahi

On 9/30/2022 at 12:59 AM, markwesse said:

Hi All

Im trying to set up old gear in the helix that I have (original ts808/1982 that was a birthday present...yep Im old)...I have mucked around with the hxedit/scream808 and its just missing something...I thought it was just dig realm at first...so I opened up old guitar rig 5 and did a side by side...and its a hell of a lot closer and feels right when you are playing it

So to get the helix more in line with the original...are there any tricks and tips you might be aware of or should I just give up and patch the pedal (but its an extra complexity I dont want and it defeats the point?)

 

Cheers

Helix is modeling whatever version of the ts808 they had. In my opinion,  it's pretty damn accurate to whatever I've heard those do.  

If it's still not there for you,  that's why EQ blocks exist, other distortion options,  or you can try the legacy tube screamer in the Helix to see if it's more to your liking.  I actually fell into this camp. While I feel the Helix model is more accurate, one day I tried the legacy Tubescreamer in the Helix and found I preferred it. I don't know why, I just do. I think it's great. 

You can also hire a professional to do a blind A/B test with you to determine if your success rate calling out the real vs fake is significantly above 50%. If it's not at least then you'd know it's all in your head and can move on. If you do pass, and assuming they're actually good at the setup, then you could take comfort knowing you have superhuman ability. That always helped me feel better. 

Do you mean the 212 or the 112? My advice below should work on both until you get to your final question.  I believe you need the 212 to output stereo. 

Because the Powercab is just a flat speaker then all you need to do is plug direct into the Powercab.  Use both left and right outputs for stereo into 212. Make sure your at least your final Stomp block is stereo for true stereo. 

For fx loop, yeah,  just stick it in there and use FX send/return block. 

Yes, for monitors you just need to use 212's outputs direct into them.  Nothing special there. 

Now,  will it be stereo? Uh ... I dunno.  Powercab DOES have a global setting to send stereo via outputs (make sure if you test that's on) BUT if you use IR or cab models in Powercab my guess is no because typically the cab and IR turn true stereo to mono. However, if all you're using is Powercab as a flat response,  no cab modeling or IRs then yes,  it should retain the stereo signal. 

On 9/29/2022 at 10:12 PM, adagosto said:

So after it's all said and done, I think I'm going to abandon the JC-40 option and go with a Powercab.

 

That's a whole new set of cabling issues to learn!

Fortunately that one is easy peasy. 

Left out to Powercab in.  Or if it's the 212 and you want stereo left and right out.

Done. 

On 9/29/2022 at 9:39 PM, boynigel said:

I'm assuming that the legacy effect models were borrowed from the four 4-button pedals(delay, mod, dist/od, filter) that they came out with 20 years ago.  if that's the case, their model of the Dimension predates the DC-2W.  However if what you stated is true, then the Dimension model is indeed stereo.  I'll have to give it a try.  I was going on the basis that the Helix manual states that effects that are in stereo will have a little symbol next to them that kinda looks like an infinity symbol.  When I was scrolling through the choruses and didn't see that symbol on the Dimension, I thought all bets were off for stereo.  happy to be wrong.

Yeah for some reason L6 decided all legacy Helix effects get a museum image regardless of if they're stereo or mono. Perhaps because they aren't as simple as the yes/no setup of the Helix designed models.

On 9/29/2022 at 1:14 PM, boynigel said:

my favorite chorus is the boss dc-2W.  incredible in stereo.  Unless i'm missing something, the Helix version of this is mono-only.  Perhaps because it's a Legacy effect?

 

If anyone is reading this who's a fan of the "motionless" variety of choruses, is there anything in the Helix, in stereo, that comes close to the Dimension chorus effect?

Is the legacy "Dimension" model the one that models the DC-2W? If so, I believe it is stereo. Usually if the original effect had stereo then the Line 6 one does. More specifically, it takes a mono input and makes it stereo. The user below compiled an excellent list a while back. Check it out:

https://line6.com/support/topic/64153-legacy-fx-stereo-or-mono/?do=findComment&comment=432434

Usually it's a small over sight causing the problem. From the sound of things you're doing it right.

In addition to the above sometimes I've made the mistake of using the wrong FX block option.  Generally you want the mono send/return block or two blocks,  one send, the other return.  I've used return for send and vice versa only to feel like a complete moron later. 

The only thing you can do is know what the HD 500 preset you like was based on,  and then knowing what's in the Helix as options,  and doing your best to recreate it. 

On 9/28/2022 at 12:53 AM, adagosto said:

Hi all,

 

Does anyone know how to connect the HX Stomp to a Roland JC-40 using the stereo inputs on that amp AND also be connected using the 4CM?

 

The 4CM part is pretty straight forward and easy, but then to utilize the second input on the amp thus enabling stereo in, I'm not sure how that would work. Would you just run the Right Output of the HX Stomp to the second input of the amp? Then if your preset was built on stereo blocks, would that do it?

 

Thanks for the help here....

It shouldn't take much more work than a traditional four cable method with the Stomp and you described it perfectly. The same 4 cable templates in the Stomp should largely work here. And then:

1. As you already said, you will need to use the L/Mono OutPut and the Right Output on the Stomp into the R and L/Mono returns on the effects loop of the Roalnd JC-40. 

2. Make sure at least one block prior to the Stomp's main output is stereo. 

It sounds like you are already familiar with a general 4-Cable setup, but if you do need a refresher page 7 of the Stomp manual has a nice image. Guitar >>>> L/Mono in on Stomp >>>> Stomp Send to Guitar In on Roland >>>> Roland Effects Loop Send to L/Mono Return on HX Stomp >>>> L/Mono + R of Main Stomp output to Effects Loop R + L/Mono Return. 

Walla. 

On 9/28/2022 at 8:28 AM, jeremiahzellers said:

First of all, I don’t appreciate being called a “sucker” which is what your post is implying. 
 

Second, I am plugging directly into a cab. There is no micing. There is no recording. At no point would my signal be converted to digital. 
 

I paid a lot for and the love the sound of my amp. And I want to retain the sound of my amp, hence the parallel mixer. 
 

i like the HX Effects and want to incorporate it without trashing my amp tone by running it through ad/da conversion. 
 

So if your only reason for posing is to sh@t on my original post, I would kindly ask you to keep it to yourself.

In addition, I don’t think Line 6 would appreciate you saying that buying the HX Effects is “cheaping out”. But perhaps you’re right and I’ll stick with Strymon with the analog dry.

Just to be clear, I think the HX Effects is awesome and I think what you want to do should produce some great sounding results. I don't think there's a "right way" to do it though. It kind of depends on what you're after. 

If it were me, I'd start with everthing at a 50% mix and experiment with different levels until one felt like "home," if that makes any sense. 

On 9/27/2022 at 7:32 PM, jeremiahzellers said:

Well, my concern is I just dropped 2k on a head, 1.2k on a cab. I don’t want this sound running through a converter. I want the pure analog signal the whole way through.

Hey,  you know what you like and accept no substitutes. I think that's great. 

Personally,  I'm kind of the same but in the reverse. I try to run all of my analog signals through digital devices to weed out all of that pure analog sound.  For some reason,  it's always sounded so fake to me.  Thats part of why I can't listen to any classic rock done before 1980.

To each their own. 

Wait what? You don't HAVE to do anything.  Personally,  I can't say that I ever like 100% wet but if you're just trying to create a light dab sure I guess ... try all of your ideas and see what sounds best. 

On a side note can I just say this description for the Suhr cracks me up:

"Now you can play with the peace of mind, that the pure guitar-amp signal that you’ve worked so hard to attain, is not compromised by suspicious circuits in various effects units"

https://www.suhr.com/electronics/tone-tools/suhr-minimix-ii/

Clearly they've never met my guitar tone.  'Sus" circuits all over the place, and that's the least of my problems. 

Additional ways to save DSP if you're committed to this approach: Instead of trying to cram in two amp/cab blocks try using seperate amp and cab with one cab shared between the two amps. Then, you can have the cab on the second processor with the two amps on the first processor and utilize @rd2rk's ideas about running in parallel if you like (which, FYI, I also prefer over the same path but your mileage may vary). Or, you could have one amp on the first processor and the second amp and cab on the second processor. 

The point is those are your most DSP intensive blocks right there so try to break the workloads up. 

An even better idea (IMO) might be to see if you can find an amp that can do both sounds you're trying to achieve, and use snapshots to change their parameters (i.e. adjusting drive, treble, channel volume, etc. with the push of a button). To me, this is usually where I found what I need and it saves way more DSP.

On 9/27/2022 at 4:24 PM, gswartz said:

Going off of theElevators suggestion to have an additional block with different settings.  If I try to create another amp+cab block after the existing one so that essentially the first one is off and the new one is on for the lead snapshot (not that I'm going to do that since the snapshot controller works), I found that for the new block most of the amps are greyed out.  Any idea why that is?  Screenshot attached.

 

Yes. This is because the first DSP processor is almost out of juice. You don't have enough processing power for the greyed out amp models. 

On 9/27/2022 at 3:43 PM, PierM said:

 

True, but then all he can send to the external amp, is just a dry signal with just early chain effects. The external loop of pedals he wanted to use, will only hit the main output, and also returning stereo wouldn work well, as he's forced to return before amp/cab to use the modeling, so he'd always output mono from that amp/cab block. He could get a stereo image at the end of the chain tho, using a stereo reverb or delay etc...Still not sure it would do what he's asking. At this point I believe would have much sense to just run external pedals in front, and use the send to just split modeling from real amp.

 

Just did a sketch of what he could get just using a stereo send block, and splitting to amp at the send jack, with a Y splitter;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Certainly they're taxing the Stomp to the very most of its abilities and probably losing some fidelity to their sonic goals. To me your setup makes more utilitarian sense and will sound great. 

In regards to the OP, my guess is this is a common case of visualizing how you WANT to do it based on your limited understanding of the device, and not realizing there's an easier way to get there that will sound equally as good as what you envisioned. 

On 9/26/2022 at 1:48 PM, frogzythe said:

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

That's really too bad. Am I the only one who has such a use case? On the one hand, I would like to play with the effects on my Fender Twin from time to time and on the other record everything, including the amp and cab sim, hearing all on the monitors. And all this without having to constantly adjust the wiring. And then I would also want to reamp through the box.

 

What ideas do you have on how I can do this with another product? Yes, with a Helix or Helix Rack that would work, but they are much too big for me. Any tips?

Keep in mind the Stomp is meant to be an impressive piece of SIMPLER kit. You use it too much and you clog up the drain. 

I wasn't sure from reading the above what you wanted, and I don't have a Stomp anymore to test it. 

Essentially, the Stomp DOES have two FX loops IF you use a stereo to mono Y cable. Based on that you could:

1. Send one loop prior to any amp/cab block to a amp. 

2. Send another loop to another seperate pedalboard/amp setup. 

3. Send the main left and right outs with amp and cab block to another setup. 

I'm also pretty sure you can have one of those paths of option 1 or 2 come back stereo so long as you use a stereo return left/right return block. 

My bigger worry is you're going to run out of blocks fast. The above setup takes at least a minimum of three blocks (left send, right send, return left/right), BUT . . . with that said, you now have 8 blocks as an option. When I was using mine I only had 6 and I had some pretty cool routing schemes. 

So good luck. Again, if I'm understanding you right it's doable - and if my memory of the Stomp's functions are correct. Generally, its blocks match the Helix, and the Helix can certainly do it. 

On 9/21/2022 at 2:58 AM, jastroem said:

I know that if I turn knobs like time, repeats etc. the light around the legacy button will flash white for a short time to indicate the value stored.

Is it also possible to figure out which kind of delay is stored into A, B or C?

 

Best wishes

Jörgen

Same idea. If you slowly turn the delay knob, the selected delay will flash white. 

On 9/19/2022 at 7:55 PM, billyfoppiano said:

Um. No...when I try to log in, It says "For this server invalid, you might be connecting to a server that is pretending to be Line6.com, which could put you at risk.

C'mon man. Beides having a dingbatt USB cable, what othr hurdles must I pass.

Can you send me the file so I can manually upgrade this thang, which is driving me crazy

Dingbat? USB C is the current gold standard. 

Things are very slow at work today, so I was really enjoying what looked like a potential flame war heating up between two of the most helpful posters on this forum. 

I gotta say, I'm horribly disapointed with the way it just kind of fizzled out.

I expected better. I see murder threats on Facebook between people for far less. 

To me this is all a bunch of theoretical hand wringing. We all have a method and an approach, and there are advantages and disadvantages to all of them. 

No approach teaches you everything. This can be true about articulation as discussed above, but it gets far more nitty gritty and basic than even that - down to what type of guitar playing are you doing? Classic rhythm? Lead guitar for a rock band? Flamenco fingerstyle? Acoustic vs. electric?

I had to realize long ago that part of the joy of guitar was also the bane for me. When I finally keel over and die, despite my very best efforts, there will be a lot of things I never got close to being good at, let alone mastering the stuff I was decent at. 

With all of that said though - I think in terms of tools and the abiilty to learn this is the VERY BEST day and age to be a guitar player. Modelers, training programs like Yousician, youtube instructional videos, traditional teachers, a ridiculous number of books . . . this is the BEST day and age to try and figure it all out. Over all it's a boon - not a bane. 

Here's what I think would happen in the orginal scenario. Beginner loves guitar. They indirectly realize they love amps - they see the price of it all can get into the stratosphere and they might even buy something big and realize they hate it. So after tons of research they throw all in on an HX Stomp and learn how to use it at bedroom levels through headphones. They get pretty solid on that setup and their technique relative to that setup is pretty good. 

Then one day they realize they want something bigger. A few friends want to start a band. This hypothetical person decides they want in, makes some additional amplification purchases and a few extra pedals, and they try to play together - and they realize they suck for a myriad of reasons. They never played with another person so their timing is off, and they never even considered a metronome when they practiced. They don't know how to balance the sound of the guitar against the bass, or the drums, or hell one of their members is a Jethro Tull fan and is packing a flute OMFG the challenges  . . .

Okay. So what? Every group that gets together for the FIRST time - modeler or no modeler sucks lollipop. That's life. This hypothetical person is still a better guitar player than anyone who has just started, and they're facing the same challenge every first time group experiences - do they stick it out and figure out how to readjust for group playing and spend the time to learn that? Or do they quit? It's always the same challenge. The modeler is irrelevant. If they carry on and get good - awesome - a whole new level develops. If they decide they'd rather go back to their bedroom playing - no big deal. There's no shame in that. My best work will always be sitting alone in a corner when no one is paying attention. I wouldn't trade those moments for anything, but group playing is fun too! I love them both. 

The biggest downside to this age is there are far more distractions than there have ever been before. Are you going to work on getting that riff right? Or are you going to netflix 8 seasons of the latest craze? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the latter - but it will pull away from the former. 

We only have so much time until we die. The harder stuff brings the most joy, but it's the harder stuff. 

On 9/18/2022 at 3:05 PM, kjcheek said:

Hey there,

 

I was wondering if anybody might have a solution for something I'm thinking about. I would like to mount my HX Effects to my pedalboard but only to a point, In other words, I'll be taking it on and off andI don't really want to use  velcro. I'll be taking my unit off my board now and again to utilize the Editor up by my computer, so I don't really want to yank velcro on and off again. I've done similar things with pedals going on and taken off. The velcro gets gooey and isn't really a temporary solution. Is there something else besides velcro that can do this? I've seen cable ties but I don't know if I like that either. 

 

Ideally, I'd like to keep the feet on my unit, but I don't know if anybody has executed this idea or not.

What do you think?

There are definitely better options than velcro, but keep in mind they hold it even stronger, and there's always a risk you pull off the adhesive. For me, it was worth it. I just kept extra adhesive and fixed it from time to time. 

I tried the 3M Dual Lock and liked it. There's other alternatives though specifically targeted at pedalboard users which might be better. Check out the below. 

https://a.co/d/azz4qe6

https://a.co/d/fblpyUA

If you use either of these solutions you're probably screwed about keeping the feet on. 

On 9/4/2022 at 11:35 AM, amsdenj said:

The issue may be that Line6 ran up against limitations in the technology used to capture and model the guitars. Some for example liked the old 1.9 models better. The other problem may be that they lost the developers who built the product.

 

 

This is what I often wonder.  People often assume that Line 6 knows HOW to update the Variax. 

Well, it's possible, hopefully unlikely, that they haven't really figured out a way to improve upon what they did, what, twelve years ago now?

Personally, I do hope it gets an update someday that makes things a bit more realistic. I actually don't care if the electric gets CLOSER to a specific modelled electric - for me that's irrelevant. I just like having so many electric tones and I frequently mess around with them. 

I do think it would be cool if the acoustics got CLOSER to an acoustic. That'd be paydirt, but it may be a type of paydirt that no one has cracked the nut for yet.

Roland's recent guitar synthesizer work with the GK-3 pickup sounds good on youtube videos. I prefer Line 6's approach though, but it has me intrigued. It's also possible if I had the real thing I'd feel slightly let down. 

It's POSSIBLE . . . I've run two guitars through a Stomp. This is essentially the same thing. 

The downside is you will run out of DSP (processing power) extremely fast. You may be unhappy with the final result as your electric guitar path will probably be limited to an amp and a reverb. Maybe a LITTLE more depending on what you choose. 

If you're not planning on using amp models and instead use a real amp it'll probably work a bit better for you. 

As for if you'll need a pre-amp, that's harder for me to weigh in on. I've never tried an acoustic without one. There are mutiple volume/levelling options in the Stomp, but many of them take additional signal processing power to use (which is at a premium in your setup) and how well it works compared to a in built pre-amp I can't say. 

Are you using in kind of foot board controller? Or is it just the app and the Firehawk. 

On 9/10/2022 at 3:00 AM, asguitarman said:

I bought the pod go and want to run it together with my Spider V120.
Since the pod go has countless amps to choose from, I ask the specialists here in the forum, what setting is there on the Spider V120 to set it as neutral as possible, so no tone control, but Tone directly, virtually as 120W active box. I found a setting in the amp selection, it says >No Amp<. What does that mean?
Or is it enough to select a clean amp to remain reasonably neutral sound?
Many greetings from Germany

Andreas

The "no amp" us what I'd start with.  Then you are essentially running your Spider as an FRFR. I'd also make sure you don't have any effects on. Easiest way to do this imo is with the PC editor. 

If you don't enjoy that,  then you can branch out.  A clean amp in the Spider is my least favorite way to try it but if you don't like the first option it could be worth a try. 

Main rule,  if it sounds good it's  good. 

You're essentially asking, "Will I like pesto pizza?" 

There's no way for any of us to know that.  I personally love FRFR and hate using other devices with a Katana - so your original problem is completely foreign to me. 

When you have that gear itch my advice is wait a few weeks before you leap in.  If it won't go away,  heck,  try it.  Maybe it'll blow your mind. 

Don't get rid of the Katana though until you're sure it was worth it. 

Good luck! I hope it is awesome for you.