z3albw1rr

I finally built my first "real" "adult" pedalboard:

 

 

The 4 drive pedals are in the 4 total loops, and the FX on the right uses snapshots to turn on the loops on the itself, as well as trigger the unit on the left to turn on its loops via MIDI. Tap tempo is also sent to the left unit via MIDI. I also use 3 expression pedals to control Wah and Drive level on the right unit, and master volume on the left (though some of that changes with some presets, but that's my usual) then the 4th expression input uses the Cntl Knob to switch between two parameters - something like 1/4 and dotted 1/8 on delays, or standard reverb to wetter one, or change rotary speed from fast to slow, etc.
 

Pedal Power is old, repurposed for this, but I was able to use the accessory outlet on it (upper left in this picture) with an extension chord with 2 outlets on one side, and one on the other. It has a rotating head so I was able to angle it down between the rails, and then I plugged in the two giant wall warts to the extension chord and mounted it up under the upper rail with velcro and secured it with wire ties. You can see one of the wire ties right to the right of the Uzi if you look close - it's all black on black though and hard to see.

 

I was (and am) VERY unhappy that the HX Effects does not have auto impedance (or even variable settings) - it's the one device that SHOULD have it - and even more disappointed in them that that's not fully disclosed in their literature. So I basically could not get a drive sound I was happy with and ended up going to real pedals for drives. The right most is a Mooer Blues Crab, set to no gain, which is there mainly to "correct" the obscene highs and lack of low end I believe the buffer is producing. It adds some bottom back and I can tame the top and adjusting the gain allows for some tone shaping before it starts to break up so I hated to dedicate it - it sounds great as a drive - but I hated to dedicate it to this purpose, but it's working great so that's that. The Pure Sky is next - for a light OD, then the Joyo Tubescreamer - even though the TSs may be one of the most accurate things in the HX Effects - and the Legacy one is better for me because of the treble and bass - this one still has those low mids the HXs seem to be robbing my signal of. I do pop an EQ on in its loop though, so I can add a touch more bass. But I was shocked how good this pedal sounds (that's true of all of these actually). Next is the Uzi - higher gain distortion in a MIAB style. Actually quite good. B/M/T controls and this Bias thing that really helps to dial it in to your liking. Played one gig with it in this setup and was able to dial in tones in real time, which is not something I could do with the internal drives and trying to access their screens and parameters at my previous gigs - which was becoming a real issue.

 

So even if I could dial in the internal drives with EQs to sound as good or better than those externals - which I had spent about a year on already - the externals did it on immediate hookup (though I did try some Wampler pedals, a Nobels, and a Blues Driver, none of which got me what I wanted and needed with my rig). Plus I can tweak them quickly at a gig if I need to and while the knobs can get bumped (an obvious advantage to presets!), it's still quicker and easier to dial something in in soundcheck or between sets if necessary, and if all else fails, I can pull a drive off and have a battery clip power supply I can use with one drive to get through a gig!

On 5/25/2023 at 5:14 AM, perton said:

Could someone give me a quick talk through how to set up a volume pedal on the hx effects so that it isn’t on one of the six buttons but is always on? I have the volume pedal set up, and it’s working great; I can’t figure out how to remove it from the foot switch, so it is always active and not assigned to a foot switch. Sorry, it’s brand new to me, and I’m sure I’ll feel like an idiot for being unable to figure it out.

Did you get it figured out?

 

 

It's wonderful to know this is STILL an issue.

 

I was reluctant to buy another L6 product after the footswitches on my M13, DM4, and MM4 all failed, and the power supply on my MM4 and M5 failed. I have a Pod XT that's still going strong. My HX Effects started acting "funky" after only a couple of months.

 

The switches are supposed to be "self-cleaning" - supposedly you push down and turn, and do this action a number of times and it should "fix" any issues.

 

But I do not have faith in them. So much so that I purchased the extended warranty that I can use on one of the units at least - whichever fails first outside if L6's warranty period.

 

I don't know why they can't get this right. Well, I know - they don't care to get it right.

 

I did a ton of research on the Helix line, hoping they had improved - and there were plenty of accounts of people not having problems after years. Of course, a lot of bluz doctors using them at home and rarely pressing the footswitches and not taking them anywhere potentially skews the reliability figures.

 

"Pros using them on stage" is not enough for me to consider it a pro level device - after all they get endorsements, or at least, free ones to try, and they may not stay on the board for long - or, they can afford to replace them and have techs on hand to repair them, so not representative of the average used. I'm still very much on the side of "it's an expensive toy for the Rock Cruise set" rather than it being professional level.

 

So I'm holding my breath that these footswitches hold up (and other stuff - I read about the knobs going bad, etc. etc.).

 

It was the only device that would do what I needed for the money, so it made sense for me, but at this point if either of my HX Effects has a footswitch failure I'm done with L6 no matter what (of course I said that when my M13 failed, but now I know I can use inexpensive real pedals and get great - even better - tones and if one of those fails I'm only out $35-$75, not $750 - I'll lose the switching capabilities I would really love to have, but it they can't get it right, for the price, it's not worth it).

Have TWO HX Effects so looking for something that can power both, and still have some juice left over for 6 pedals - like Mooer Black Secret size (all drives, not power hungry).

 

Would like to get away from the wall warts.

 

However, they can fit under the pedalboard, so any ingenious solutions to getting them plugged in (I have the shorter ones that are parallel to a power strip if the slots are parallel as well)

On 3/31/2023 at 3:39 PM, soundog said:

Rule of thumb: if AutoTune is bundled in a hardware guitar pedal, run away!

Yeah I saw that in the video and I'm like - what?

On 3/28/2023 at 3:18 PM, boynigel said:

does anyone have any tips for getting a more convincing sound out of any of the Rotary/Leslie blocks,

They've never been very good.

 

I was messing with them last night again in fact.

 

I was trying them before some drives rather than after and honestly... I kind of like them better that way. But they're still very much "not like what I hear on records".

 

Since the rotaries tend to sound like a chorus emulating a rotating speaker, you're almost just as well off to use a chorus to emulate it!

 

I find the chorus doesn't alter the overall tone so much.

 

Have you tried the Legacy ones? IIRC they have a mix control where the stereo ones don't - or there's a balance between the horn and speaker, or some additional parameters that can help you dial in the sound a little more.

On 3/13/2023 at 4:28 AM, soerenP said:

By the way, some more findings concerning this topic: 

 

1. The Colorsound Overdrive has got a second, modded model, the L6 Drive! I didn't expect something named L6 being based on a classic drive so I haven't checked that for a long time. It is really better than the Colordrive model.

Yeah, I'm not a Color sound buff but the L6 Drive might be the best pedal in the collection - the Mid Control makes it go from Fuzz to Metal with the Drive high. I also recall using that with the Bass and Treble set real low to get more mids for a Boston type sound. I don't get the Colordrive - it doesn't have very much drive at all on tap.

 

On 3/13/2023 at 4:28 AM, soerenP said:

2. Watching even more YouTube videos, channels like ThatPedalShow etc., I found out, that there are a lot of original classic tones I don't like.

 

I can see that. I heard "Strange Brew" today as a matter of fdact and I once asked if people liked that and the responses were divided. I consider a lot of classic tones to be thin and scratchy or bright and brittle and don't like them.

 

On 3/13/2023 at 4:28 AM, soerenP said:

The guys from the Andertons YT channel e.g. mention this behaviour in their video comparing 5 types of classic ODs and have a different taste on that matter.

 

Do you remember which video that is? I'm sure I can find it. I know that Captain doesn't like Tube Screamers because "the dry signal leaks through" but I like that, and so does Pete. But I think that's a separate issue from "fizzy"!

 

FWIW, I tore apart my rig after a really depressing gig last weekend where my tone was just horrible.

 

I've going to not use the drives and just use my own external drives in the FX loops where they sound way better than anything in HX Effects. I'm just going to use the HX Effects for Wah, using the snapshots to turn on those FX loops 1 at a time or stacked or neither, and then a couple of effects like some Octave/Harmony type things I like having on that first unit (I try to keep all the mods and delays/verbs on the 2nd unit).

 

I still kind of really like the Stupor OD, but like all of the built in drives, it's got this upper midrange honk that's annoying and I'm tired of trying to dial it out with EQ right now. My plan is to use my external drives for now, and then try to gradually dial in something inbuilt to match as a backup. I think I can get an internal Fuzz to work fine for me though. Also one of their drives into one of my drives is not so bad and helps them out a lot.

 

At a point where I want to use both expression pedal jacks and both pairs of sends and returns and there's not a lot of room there.

 

I've got some Miracle Sound right angles and they both fit in the expression jacks, but, the middle jack of the 6 on the bottom row is close enough to the one on either side that the cable in the top jack in the middle can't go between them on either side. The rest of them are "outside" of the other cables and can be angled a bit.

 

I just totally realized it's actually the same problem dfor the L/Mono input I plug my guitar into.

 

I just tried the Miracle Sound ones again and I was able to "squish" them in where it squeezes the little rubber ribbed "flex/grippy thing" right at the molded plastic connector:

 

 

I've got some classic pancake style and they're just too big - they overlap vertically (and just barely fit horizontally.

George L's would work but I am not a millionaire. I suppose worst case, I might be able to use only 1 or 2 George L's in the top row and the rest be like the more typical molded plastic ones.

 

But something that size, where the cable coming out of the connector is already the smaller diameter to fit between one pair of the lower jacks is necessary.

George L does make a 1' one for 18 bucks so worst case, there you go. But I'm hoping to find something the line of some less expensive cables (and making my own is not a happening thing unless those new Ghost Fire DIY kits work well). I'm not seeing anything at the usual haunts that's not a pancake or the ribbed rubber housing (though if I could find one of those that was narrower...).

 

Though a secondary thought is that's more just a grip/flex thing, so I could in theory whittle it down a bit...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@soerenP - reading through your responses - I would say the Colordrive from the legacy collection was a pretty bad sounding model.

 

So, a couple of things - I play through a real Twin Reverb.

 

I once read an article where they were trying out pedals and they did it through a number of amps and they said "an unforgiving twin" - and it's true - they are unforgiving.

 

As I mentioned before, by "stacking drives" the sparse crackles of one overdrive can "fill in" the crackles of another, making for a smoother drive.

 

This is true of overdriven amps as well - you either add drive in front to "fill in crackles" or you add volume at front to make the amp drive more to produce it's own crackles!

 

Many Pedals were not designed to create drive before a clean amp - in fact most aren't.

 

There's a great That Pedal Show demonstrating this with a Plexi-ish amp, an AC-30, and a clean Fender. The same pedal can sound drastically different. They even demonstrate using one on the Fender clean, and then with it breaking up a bit, and again it's a big difference.

 

To me, many drive models in the Helices sound like butt into a clean amp. Most real world ones do to. Because that's not what they were designed to do. That Pedal Show also talks about a DS-1 and the same kinds of ideas - it was an eye-opening video for me. "So that's why I never liked DS1s and similar" - I was playing them into clean amps and they designed those at a time when people were going into breaking up amps.

 

And man, I think it sounds great goosing another overdrive - sucks on its own, but is great pushing another.

 

Tube Screamer type pedals and Rat Pedals worked great for me in real live an in my DM4 and M13.

 

The 808 in the HX is pretty good, but thank god the legacy one is there with bass and treble controls as well.

 

The Rats all suck now into a clean amp though...

 

The Kinky Boost also sounds great to me - because it "fixes" some of the coloration inherent in the HX and all the drives.

 

But I'd say MOST of the overdrives have "issues" that alone, into an unforgiving Twin, are going to be noticeable.

 

But when they are used either as intended, or how they more commonly got used - mixed in with additional drive, you get a level of saturation that doesn't have these artifacts.

 

It's true - a real Plexi doesn't really have that much drive, and is "crackly" on it's own.

 

I'd argue the "fall off" issue is a modelling issue - not present on all models but on many. But the "crackle" is present in many real-world overdrives when not running them into an already breaking up amp, or amp with certain speakers and frequency characteristics etc. (the mid-range scoop of a Fender can make drives sound "nasty" and adding mids back can help - which is why mid-heavy drives like Tube Screamers tend to sound better with them).

 

But it's not a failing of the unit. It's maybe a failing of the design choices, but many of those artifacts are just things people never notice because they're always running the things into other things that cover them up!

 

When you don't do that, you suffer the consequences :-)

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

 it seems to me any overdrive pedal block I use in the stomp should have a "normal" overdrive output and, because I'm going into a real, physical amp and cab, I shouldn't need to touch the global EQ.

 

Yeah, you'd think right? But you'd be wrong ;-)

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

 

But - it seems the the stomp still adds more high end than is in the original signal (analog through VS digital through with no blocks)

 

So what's most likely happening is this:

 

Analog through is using the cable length from your guitar to HX, AND the length from HX to your amp.

 

Digital through (or just not bypassed even with no blocks, or all blocks bypassed) is "negating" the cable length from the HX to your amp.

 

So the capacitance is HALF what it is in analog bypass (assuming you're using say, 2 20' cables for example).

 

This is because it is a buffer when not analog bypassed.

 

Now what this means for you is, it sounds brighter than when analog bypassed.

 

Most people will tell you though it's not brighter, it's that in analog bypass it's duller!

 

It's merely "replacing the highs you're losing by using a longer cable run".

That's what they'll tell you. It's true - 40' of cable has more capacitance, and thus more high-end loss than 20' of cable.

 

So if you plug your guitar straight into your amp with 20' of cable, you should get the same sound from a 20' cable into HX, and then whatever after the HX, since the buffer essentially "negates" anything after it. They should both have the same amount of high end (or so they'll tell you) and when you compare it to the analog bypass, it's not a "fair" comparison because you're comparing 20' of cable to 40' of cable. The HX makes it sound like 20' - which is what you want, right - well, not always.

 

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

so I still need to add a little high cut on the global EQ to get the output similar to real overdrives or just with the stomp bypassed in analog through.

 

I have this same problem. What I hear out of my HX Effects is NOT "regained highs" but "a messed up frequency mess".

 

There's a pretty significant increase in both high and low mids in addition to the highs that robs the character of my guitar's pickups. Now the HX Effects only has a fixed input impedance (brilliant - the one device that SHOULD have variable impedance doesn't...) but since you're having this same issue, it's probably more than that.

 

But like another poster said, you really shouldn't use the global EQ for that. I get why you might want to - it's easy to "fix the tonal mess of the unit", but it's really more designed for when you get to a gig and because you set up your sounds at home, they all have too much bass or something, so the idea is that you could quickly dial it out with the global EQ. That said, if all you're doing is dialling out some high end, that's easy enough to change if you get somewhere and find you need more or less anyway.

 

Instead, it might be better to just put an EQ in the Preset, and then save it as a Favorite, and then copy it into other presets.

 

It does kind of suck because if you end up changing it, you'll have to go back and do all of them - which could be a nightmare if you have tons of presets.

 

But personally I've found that I need more than what the global EQ does.

 

There needs to be some high cut, there needs to be some cut around 2200, and some around 250 - to start. At least that's what I'm finding I have to do to get it to sound like my bypassed tone.

 

I don't mind it a little brighter, but my god, it changes my tone pretty drastically in an harsh, and unpleasant way.

 

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

 

It's not really an issue as once I take a bit of high end off on global EQ I'm pretty much where I started but it seems the stomp does add something else.

 

Yep.

 

Definite coloration.

 

Really, all the drives have this harsh mid-range honk that my real drives don't have - even when going through the unit and thus the unit's buffer (since drive pedals when on are buffered signals themselves).

 

I've got my real drives in a loop right now comparing them to the onboard drives and have been fighting to get them to sound "as good". I know they aren't going to be identical (I only have clones, not any exact models in the HX) but the "honky" character of all the drives and even the bypassed tone is annoying. Just cutting the highs is not enough to help me.

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

 

 

On 3/5/2023 at 9:35 PM, rwinking said:

Put simply, it would be great to have one switch on the HX go from program 56 Channel 1 and then hit it again and have it go to Progam # 58 Channel 2. Is that possible?

 

 

PC messages aren't set up to do momentary/latching on the footswitch (another fine mess they've gotten us into). So you can't use Command Center to program two PC messages to the same footswitch either as Instant commands or footswitch commands.

 

I think there might be a workaround though:

 

When you recall a Snapshot, PC messages that are saved with it are sent. This teensy note on page 41:

 

Quote

NOTE: The Value parameters of any instant MIDI CC, Bank/Prog, MMC, and HX Looper
messages, plus the state (dim or lit) of any CC Toggle and Ext Amp messages are automati-
cally recalled when selecting a snapshot.

 

Since there's also a Snapshot Toggle setting for Snapshot Recall, what you should be able to do is make Snapshot 1 send PC 56, and Snapshot 2 send PC 58, and then toggle between these two snapshots - which don't even have to have anything else in them. So as each is recalled, it'll send the PC value (there may be some additional settings you have to make in the Snapshot itself).

 

Of course that burns up two of your snapshots so that may not be ideal either. But that's the only way I can think of you could do it.

 

Not sure if you know this, but in Command Center you can go in and set up Snapshots to be on your footswitches in Stomp mode.

 

So what you could do is put Snapshot 1 and 2 to toggle on FS 1, then Snapshot 3 on FS2, and Snapshot 4 on FS 3, and then FS4,5,6 can just be stomps (or whatever FS layout you want).

 

You have 3 Snapshots and 3 stomps that way, and one of your SS is really 2 that toggle to let you change the channel on your amp.

 

Hope that helps.

Quote

To me, said overdriven sounds sound quite brittle and fizzy, and decaying notes have artifacts that all of a sudden disappear instead of slowly fading away as you would expect from analog gear. Worst model I found in that context was definitely the Colordrive. 

@soerenP

 

I've been messing with digital stuff since Line 6 first came out - the Axsys 212 - the first Green Delay pedal - the DL4, etc.

 

I'm going to give you my experience:

 

1. There is no way to get rid of the "crackle apart" decay characteristics on any drive like this that has them (your only solutions are to not use that model, "cover it up" in some way - more on that below - or sell the unit). They are "built into" the sound if you will. Some pedal models are worse than others. Way back in those old days, Fender entered the market with their first Modelling amp, and it was one of the first things I noticed about their drive sounds - they "crackled apart". Unlike a real amp or even drive pedal that smoothly moves from clipping to not clipping, many digital effects (not just L6 ones) can't seem to decide if the signal should still be clipping as it crosses the threshold from clipping to not clipping - meaning individual clipped peaks seem to be present in some random fashion, making what I'm calling a "crackling" sound that's not overdrive or clipping. It's more like the bad kind of clipping that happens in the digital realm when you go over 0 dbfs.

 

2. Some drives also have a noticeable "breath" on them - for lack of a better term. It sounds like someone exhaling into your ear as it plays. It's a high his that doesn't seem to be part of the tone or the clipping, and is just "there". Back when I had the old DM4, this was very noticeable on the "Overdrive" model.

 

3. These and other artifacts are "baked into" the sound.

 

4. As for Brittle during the sound not in the fall off, again I find that certain models are just that way and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

5. As for Fizzy, there are some things that can help, and those things can help to "cover up" these other artifacts.

 

A. Just try putting a Kinky Boost after your drives. I know you're eating up DSP, but try it and see if you like the sound better. Do it with NO boost, NO drive, and the Bright switch OFF. The Kinky Boost in this setting rolls off a lot of high end and adds some low mid warmth that seems to tame a lot of the Fizz. Just do it and see if you like the tone, because that tells you that what may help you is EQ'ing in a way that removes high end like the KB does.

 

B. Try stacking two drives, or running a drive into a driven amp. The Colordrive model on the legacy devices was one I REALLY liked the tone of, but the drive aspect of it was "brittle" - which wasn't an EQ issue - it's just the way the drive presents itself. So the problem with a lot of "crackle" is the clipping is too far apart in time and more random. If you max out a drive control and it's still "crackly" what you need is to "fill in the gaps" with other crackles - another pedal with some drive on it. Again you may be sucking up DSP but you might just try stacking two lower drive pedals rather than trying to get the amount of drive you want out of one. The crackles of one far-too-crackly drive will "fill in" the crackles of the other far-too-crackly overdrive to make a smoother drive tone overall. This can also help with the fall off as there will be 50% more crackles as it drops off making for a smoother transition again. Though obviously you kind of need to start with as smooth sounding pedals as you can.

 

C. I'm fighting with my TWO HX Effects right now. They DRASTICALLY change my tone because of the buffer, and the drives just don't sound good. They all have an upper mid-range "honk" that one of my bandmates said "ooh that's cool, sounds like a cocked wah pedal" - but it wasn't supposed to. It was a model that I used in the M13 - one of the Legacy models. That they changed. The Legacy models in the Helix sound NOTHING like the actual models in the M13 (or DM4, which sounded the same as the M series). I had a Pod XT Live and it sounded crappy, like the Helix.  I don't know what the problem is, but the Legacy drives are the "same" in name only. I put real pedals up against it, and the Helix just has this weird upper midrange honk and lack of warmth.  I've been spending a LOT of time trying to EQ it to get it "right" but at this point I'm really considering just selling them both. I said before I'd never give them another dollar because of the failed footswitches I've had on MANY of their devices, but I just couldn't find anything that would do what they do for the same price. But I guess, even at those prices, you get what you pay for.

 

D. That said, it works for many. There's a lot of people who just don't worry about stuff, for whatever reason, and they're happy. But sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but unless you can make yourself happy with it, or through some of the possible solutions I've given, you'll never be happy with it, and the things you describe are just things that can't be changed - only covered, sold, or accepted.

 

Good luck.

 

 

On 2/16/2023 at 10:05 AM, davebode said:

 I like the Helix and it can produce many excellent sounds, especially fully clipped (high distortion) and clean amp sounds. However the sound of the high frequency distortion cutting in and out, rather than smoothly fading as the note decays, was a deal breaker. Once you hear it, you cannot unhear it. And that stanky distortion sound colors the delays and verbs and it was driving me nuts!
 

Just wanted you to know, when I listened to your clip, I pressed play without reading it.

 

And I want you to know I know exactly what you're talking about.

 

I heard the first one and I was like, "i don't hear it" and then the 2nd example and I was like "oh yeah, there it is".

 

It wasn't until after that I realized the order - and the Helix was the 2nd one.

 

Yep. It sounded like it.

 

FWIW, this is a common problem in a lot of digital distortion models, not just Line 6. The "fall apart" of the clipping is not smooth as it is in real drive pedals. In fact, I learned this decades ago with the early Fender attempts at modelling - and it was what I actually used to determine if drives were any good or not (all other things being equal). I'd check out the "fall apart" at the end of a moderate drive signal, and if it "cracked apart" then I new it wasn't for me.

 

In the past, Line 6 had enough models to choose from that I could eliminate 90% of them for all the issues they had, and find at least 3 of them that would work.

On 12/28/2022 at 7:17 AM, codamedia said:

 

When a loop is set to 50%, that IS creating a parallel path.

 

OK, yes, sure in that way absolutely.

 

On 12/28/2022 at 7:17 AM, codamedia said:

 

Set it to 100%, then solve the tonal difference that you are mentioning.

 

Well, that is the question. How do I solve that though?

 

On 12/28/2022 at 7:17 AM, codamedia said:

 

@CraigGT provides great advice above. Make sure the LEVEL of the Loop in UNIT A is set the same as the I/O of UNIT B. Both need to be instrument, or both need to be line. 

They are. I tried them the other ways just to be sure, but yes, the problem persists even when they're all set to Instrument.

 

On 12/28/2022 at 7:17 AM, codamedia said:

 

IMO... I wouldn't bother with the loop at all. Why not just run one unit into the other? That would eliminate one unnecessary AD/DA conversation. 

I was just trying it because there's a problem with running them in series as well.

 

There is the advantage of being able to change presets, and so on with the 2nd unit in a disengaged loop, and then bringing it back online.

 

But honestly it's not that big a deal and series works just as well (aside from that issue) because of the Snapshots - and I have two independent sets of 4 which is why I wanted to go the 3 HX Effects route.

 

I'm mainly wondering now if the tonal change is due to the additional conversion, and if it's only slightly less when the units are in series, but still causing my issue with that tonal change.

 

I do have an acceptable solution, but was just hoping the loop might solve it - which it actually does on 50%, but that of course causes the other problem.

 

 

On 12/27/2022 at 10:02 AM, codamedia said:

@z3albw1rr... it sounds like you have the "send/return" setup as a parallel path yet you appear to want a serial setup. Double check those "send/return" parameters to make sure you are not blending the two signals. 

 

To test this... run the HX Effects unit back to back (not in the loop). If the phasing disappears... the problem is in the loop parameters. 

It's the single FX Loop block - when set to 50%.

 

That produces half the signal in the A unit going through it, then the other half of that going through the 2nd unit - and any effect that passes dry signal (or the effect itself not set to 100% wet) and I'm sure that's the signal that's causing the phasing.

 

At 100% on the FX loop block it doesn't do it, but there is a tonal change as you engage and disengage the loop.

 

So here's the problem:

 

To avoid the phasing issue, I have to set the FX loop block to 100%. It's just series running through the loop then.

 

But the loop makes a tonal change when being engaged and disengaged.

 

To solve that, I can run it at 50%.

 

But then you get the phasing on any effect not 100% wet (which doesn't work with many effects - unless you want a clean blend on a drive!)

 

_______

 

I get why there's a phase issue with the loop at 50% - you've got dry signal going through both and one's latency is enough to delay the signals relative to each other.

 

But I don't get why there's a tonal change when I put it at 100% and it's serial. Even with no blocks in the path, turning the loop on and off causes a change in volume/tone or a frequency shift that makes some frequencies louder or quieter that equates to a volume difference that can't be corrected with the send/return volumes.

 

But I suspect it's the same reason there's a tonal shift when I just run the two units in series.

 

 

 

 

On 12/27/2022 at 7:02 AM, CraigGT said:

If the FX Loop Mix is set to 100% then latency won't be an issue, it sounds like you've got a parallel path somewhere.

Unplug the output from B and you should lose all signal, if not then it proves the parallel path.

 

 

No parallel path - it's when it's set to 50% that the phasing issue is caused.

On 12/26/2022 at 3:07 PM, theElevators said:

As for the phase invert.... there isn't a direct switch for it, but when using a parallel path the merge block allows you to flip the "b" polarity.I don't know how the LR Baggs implements it... but if it's just a phase reversal on the output (common) you could try this...

• In your chain, drop one effect to the B path
• In the split block, change it from a Y to a Split A/B and route ONLY to the B side
• In the merge block
  • Set your A level to it's lowest setting possible. this is just a precaution to make sure no signal is bypassing the B path
  • Now you can invert your entire signal by changing the "B Polarity" as required

Thanks - I thought I remembered seeing a polarity switch somewhere. I was wondering if putting the loop in the B path and just switching the B path on and off might be a solution. Inelegant, but a solution nonetheless.

On 12/25/2022 at 2:35 AM, somebodyelse said:

That's latency for ya.

Hmmmm...that does make sense as a potential cause.

I've got 2 HX FX.

 

I just tried to run one in the loop of the other. Let's call Unit A the main unit that has the send/return FX loop block, and the unit that's in the loop, Unit B.

 

Signal is Unit A Send to Unit B In, and Unit B Out to Unit A Return.

 

With the Send, Return, and Mix values at the default, there's a noticeable change in tone when you turn on the FX loop.

 

If I dial the mix down to 50%, it's gone and you can't really tell the loop is being engaged.

 

However, if all the effects blocks are bypassed, or an effect has any dry signal going through, or the unit is bypassed (even in Analog Bypass) it's clearly out of phase (sounds like a chorus, flanger, or phaser with no sweep in the LFO).

 

If I put a Gain Block in, it's out of phase. But if I turn the gain down to 0, it's not.

 

If I put a Delay in, I have to put the mix at 100% - and adjust the level.

 

Now, this last one makes sense to me as it's like using a Send/Return Aux bus on a mixer or in a DAW.

 

That limits you to certain kinds of effects you can use this way though.

 

I thought I'd try to use the Return and Send on Unit B, but that means "wasting" two blocks at the beginning and end just to route signal.

 

 

 

 

On 12/24/2022 at 8:21 AM, dschaaf said:

Hi, Just wondering if it is possible to use one of the exp inputs for a switch as opposed to an expression pedal. What I am wanting to accomplish id to be in stomp mode with all 6 stomps showing (with ability to stomp on/off) but to be able to also access the looper screen. I thought the external switch might be able to pull that up. Otherwise I have to forego one stomp and use that button as the access to the looper?

 

Thanks,

Derek 

Derek, if you just want an extra Footswitch to do the same kinds of things an Expression Pedal can do, then this works:

 

https://www.ehx.com/products/cntl-knob/

 

I have it connected to my 2nd EXP in connector.

 

I use it to toggle between say, 1/4 note and dotted-1/4 note delay times on a delay.

 

You can use it to toggle between two states - like it could control the Fast/Slow of a Rotary effect, or the Vibrato/Chorus switch on a Chorus, and things like that.

 

I just tried it and you can't Engage or Disengage the Looper with it (thank you yet again L6...)

 

You can only change parameters of the Looper with it. All it will allow you to change are the Playback, Overdub, Hi Cut and Lo Cut parmeters (the volumes of those first two, or the frequencies of the latter two).

 

But that's it unfortunately.

On 12/13/2022 at 8:31 AM, BSByrdman said:

I understand that the HXFX is effects only and would be the least expensive to accomplish my needs, but for a few hundred more, is it worth it for the amp modeling even if I may not use it? 

 

Here's the one thing you need to know: The HX Effects does NOT have the auto impedance feature.

 

This means that your fuzzes and other pedals that expect a lower impedance will not function properly when you roll off the volume knob.

 

This may not make a difference to you if you never plan on usinig Fuzz and other drives within the unit itself.

 

If you're just using say, mods, and delays, and reverbs, then saving the money is probably worth it.

 

Otherwise I'd go with the Stomp XL primarily for having enough footswitches.

I have two HX Effects connected via MIDI so that when I step on Preset 1 on the first, it simply goes to Preset 1 on the 2nd. Easy peasy.

 

But there's an odd behavior: I leave both in Stomp Mode, so press the Mode FS to come out to the 4 presets to choose a preset, then it goes back into Stomp mode. Works great. But, whenever I turn them on, let's say I'm on bank 4 Preset 1 (4A). If I step on the Up button to go to bank 5, it goes to bank 32.

 

It does this no matter what bank I'm starting on - it always goes down to 32 first, then I have to increment back up to 5 or wherever I want it to go.

 

This only does it the very first time - after that it seems fine.

On 10/14/2022 at 9:00 PM, codamedia said:

 

Half true...

 

There is also an option that uses the "1st active block" when set to auto.

That was introduced in a relatively recent update, but I'm not sure which one. 

 

Yeah rd2rk just turned me on to that in another response.

 

 

s

Ahh, I didn't know about that update.

 

Ok, so if I'm correct, let's say you have a real-world TB (true bypass) pedal first, then a fuzz after it.

 

If you bypass the TB pedal, then the fuzz will still behave as it would if it were first after your pickups.

 

So this is like the newer update "first active" yes?

 

The older one before the update would have been like if the first pedal were not TB and the fuzz would react the same whether the first pedal was engaged or bypassed (since it's buffered bypass), yes?
 

First, I have an HX Effects so the input impedance is fixed.

 

I'd love to be able to hear audio clips of the results of the following experiment if you're game:

 

Those of you with units you can set the Impedance on.

 

My understanding is that the impedance is controlled by the first block when set to Auto.

 

And that's true even when that block is bypassed.

 

So if you put a 1M device first, then a lower impedance pedal 2nd - a fuzz, or many of the drives (TS?) with the first block bypassed, even though set to auto, it's going to be 1M.

 

Fine.

 

I want to compare that to when that same 2nd block (the drive or fuzz) is first in line.

 

IOW, I would like to hear how the sound of a Tube Screamer changes when it's getting the 1M input versus the Auto Input (which when first, should calibrate to the pedal itself - which for a real TS is in the 450-500 range I believe).

 

Or even a fixed 500k input or something.

 

I'd love to hear this direct, or into a clean amp model (really clean, not "edge of breakup" clean) as that's going to reveal more of what's happening.

 

I know the Fuzzes are really problematic with this.

 

But I'm wondering about the other drives - how much different a TS will sound at 1M as opposed to what it's "supposed to get" for example.

 

I suspect they'll sound different - but HOW different and what those differences are is what I'm after.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to do this for me.

 

Peace