SteinweinerMkIV

2 minutes ago, BBD_123 said:

The 'HX cabs are crap' meme is unhelpful, really, because they're actually fine. IRs offer more, not necessarily better. Maybe it would be preferable to let people decide for themselves what works best for them rather than preload them with the idea that IRs are a must-have for good tones.

Ahhh...OK..let's put it this way, most users, and it's most by a pretty good margin, that complain about Helix being buzzy and fizzy sounding, end up trying 3rd party IR's , which take the sound of Helix to a whole other level...I can get the stock cabs to sound "ok", but when you load up a custom IR (a good one, as mentioned above), way more 3d and realistic sounding and feeling.  I have been working with AX8 and Helix now for about a year, and have gone through every up & down experiencing these units.  I have many friends that use Helix, all different styles, only 1 person likes Helix stock... My point is that an extra $20-25 goes a LONG way...Like having a great car, but being able to add air conditioned seats,,,,Ha! If you are fine with Helix the way it is (which is fine) then no need, BUT there is a reason it has the ability to load up 3rd party IR's. Simply my opinion trying to save someone a lot of frustration in case they are not enammered with plugging into a Helix for the first time.

18 hours ago, funkyou86 said:

Yep, there are lots of bad Helix sounds online, but again, if you know what you're after only your imagination is the limit. Check Jason Sadites videos and reviews, he should get an endorsment from L6 for the effort and quality he put in to the explanation. Sonic Drive Studios is another great example.

 

If you want to play safe, try out Helix Native, I believe it's free for 14 days. Try to find some good tones @ customtone, if you'll like it, get the LT ;)

I couldn't have said it better myself.. You will probably not find the stock presets inspiring (or stock cabs..)  Ownhammer IR's for sure (Just pick 1 pack and you get like 150 various mic'd up cab souns that are fantastic)..I also suggest Freman or Choptones (they sell custom presets)..for aroiund $25 you can get some KILLER and very usable custom presets from these guys..I did both and tweek on those to my liking... Just awesome. Native Vibe is a good idea (uses same exact sounds as Helix) but you don't get to experience the UI on the Helix, which is pure delight.  Damn..I'm gonna go p[lay on mine right now!

On 5/27/2018 at 5:31 AM, mikah912 said:

 

As someone who has had a Helix and AX8 MULTIPLE times, I went with Helix ultimately and never looked back. I also primarily play the same genres as you.

 

First, online clips tell you nothing and online "versus" discussions just sow doubt. The clips are just a snapshot of one person dialing in one amp with one IR as of one particular firnware. 

 

Second, usability made a huge difference to me. While Fractal does offer a gazillion parameters and amp models to choose from, I personally found it less than optimal to set up and tweak with. Helix inspired me to write and play a lot more. 

 

Finally, for high gain, Helix has some exclusive amp models - the Badonk, Archon and the Cartographer, in particular - that just do it for me in a way that Fractal never did. I love the Friedman too, but everyone wears that tone out these days. If you have any remaining doubt, check k out the Helix videos from Sonic Drive Studios on YouTube.

This is great advice.. I too have had 2 AX8 models while owning my Helix LT (thought I was missing something in the Helix)..AX* does have a slightly more "liquid" feel (VERY slight)..The key here is Custom IRs..Ownhammer (just liek SonicDrive Studios uses, of course there are others) was a game changer /field leveler. I became very good at editing Ax8 tto, but just found the differences between the 2  tonally were very little, AND the UI on the Helix alone is one of the most inspiring things I've experienced. Either unit can achieve AMAZING and inspiring tones, Helix has a nicer onborad screen, oh yeah, and SNAPSHOTS!!!!!!  Presets within a preset to turn on and off anythign you want..possibilities are crazy with Helix. one more thing, Helix and Helix LT have the exact same processor and tones, period. Just a few less ins & outs (still more than you could ever need) ANyone telling you one blows the other away (AXe vs Helix) is giving their opinion. I have recorded tracks that none of the guys in both of my bands could tell the difference between the 2.  

14 hours ago, HCRoadie said:

I REALLY need to see your 4, 5, and 8 foot monitors! Sorry, I couldn't resist

...uh... those are meters buddy  : )        I seemed to have fixed the issue, which I'm not totally sure what happened....  Found a few of my presets that had double EQ blocks (of the same type of EQ) so, I found multipkle placses in some presets where Treble was being boosted in 3 places..definitely causes  bad fuzz..till having issues with Placater for some reason, but i'm getting other amps to sound great at the moment, so not a crisis.. I'm still going to get 8 INCH monitors though.

Thanks,I think my levels are right. I'll check thr global eq

Thanks guys...All the IRS are in the correct slots..It's primarilly the high gain stuff  (tuned down to drop B)..It's that delicate balance of aggressive high gain, yet not all ice -picky... still "pleasing to the are" so to speak. I have other guitars that are tuned to pitch that I have no problem arriving at some great sounds (Fender Clean to High-gain Marshall.), but again, fo rthat heavier stuff, I've lost my way all of a sudden.  I have been laboriing over some of these "how to" videos as therre are a lot of great ones out there..SonicDrive Studios is probably the best..Having trouble dialing in the Placater and MKIV tones..Bought Ownhammer IRS..200 + variations of EQ change and mic placement...I feel a bit overwhelmed..like my brain and ears are being compressed and expanded...

So I bought the Freman Big Pack, also the latest Upgrade (includes FriedmanBE, LOne Strar, etc..), Choptones presets, Ownhammer IRS.. I've done all the updates..Had it sounding killer.. But now, I swear, it's sounding fizzy, not as 3d...so weird.. I tried taking a break for a few days, same thing.. even reloaded all of my presets, factory reset, ...still the same...just not quite as sweet as it was.. I typically run right into my M Audio studio monitors (4 or 5')...Maybe my ear is wanting to graduate to 8' monitors? Just not gettting that super tight , articulate without being harsh tone..I think I'm going crazy.

On 7/6/2016 at 2:55 PM, glideman said:

Nah... I had done Axe II XL+ and now AX8. I've just gotten to old and lazy for Fractal now. I spend entirely to much time tweaking versus playing. I finally settled on Helix and bought another Kemper for those change of pace days and jamming at the house and in the studio...

 

It was a nice piece if equipment, but it's just not enough of a thrill for me to have 3 modelers. Sorry, cliff, the other two just happen to be my faves and especially with snapshots and a Mesa MkIV... WHOOP!

Glideman! ...I know this is an older post, but it relates...so I ended up buying another AX8 thinking I was missing some magical tone out of the Helix...wanted to keep both to be honest, but with some cool IR's and 2,5whatever update, Helix just sounds so good on it's own, and soooooooooooooo friggin easy to operate. ..Sold the AX8 4 days ago....The capabilities of Helix pushed me over the top.. I think I'm going to upgrade my MAudio Studio 4' to 8'...Sound a bit boxy at louder than nearfield vol.    What do you use for studio monitors?  I gave up on the FRFR thing as I just couldn't vibe with it...For recording direct and low-ish volume playing through monitors-Helix is A++++++++++++++  For live, I still have my Mesa Mk IV thru a recto cab.. it's just killer. ..For the most part, I use a few presets I purchased from Freman (Big pack)..tweek them a bit to my liking...pretty sweet.. The MKiV tone you use..Wanna share that preset??  : )  Do you use stock or custom IR's?  (Trying some Ownhammer now.. like them so far..)  Sorry for the long message lol..

I don't own the asm-12, I just played through it...felt that it had the closest to feeling like and responding like a guitar cab (although FRFR)..Heavy!!  and it was almost $1K..(I bought the Mission 1 @ GC for $600....returned it) Now I just go through my studio monitors @ home for recording and playing at lower volumes..(use a Boogie MKIV $ recto 4x12 for live)

Not sure about the new Line 6 Power cab or whatever, but they're pricey!! 

Alto TS210 are surprisngly pretty good and realtively inspiring to play through.. the 212 gets a little boomy  for my tastes, but still really good.., and I haven't tried the Headrush, but man, thats' a lot of bang for the buck.. 

Had a Mission1 cab...Midrangey, no bottom...lasted 2 minutes ..the tone was so bad..Not nearly as rich and full as it sounded through my studio monitors.. I 'd hate to say it, but the Alto ts210 and 212 SMOKED the mission 1..I hear the Mission 2 cab (2x12) is awesome, but to be honest, the Gemini1 sounded so uninspiring..I thought it was broken, took it to a tech, nope, working fine.  I played through a Freidman ASM 12.. Now you're talking... $900 to start and VERY heavy.

Just bought Ownhammer Recto 4x12 to try out.. HOLY...FRIGGIN>>>CRAP!!!!  No comparison to stock cabs... Takes Helix LT all the way there... I think Im going to buy a 2x12 and a marshall pack next.. Crazy how much difference a decent IR vs a GREAT IR affects your tone... I literally just boxed up my AX8 for sale, Helix is just too fun and the Ownhammer IR's take it to a whole new level.   Killer tone as usual!

Man..killer! Those Ownhammer IR's must be the ticket..I have some of the Choptone and Freman presets (Come with some cool IR's), but I think I need to add the Ownhammer to my arsenal

Killer!!

I own both, really hard to decide on which one to keep. Once you load up a few custom IR's, the tonal difference between these 2 gets very narrow.   The Helix tends to have a slightly more scooped tone along with a little bit brightness (Easily rectified with some minimal eq-ing)..AX8 sounds a bit more compressed and darker (I end up brightening up a smidge).  UI on the Helix as we all know is so good that it is a blast just to get in there and tweek, where as the AX8 (without AxeEdit) is a little bit more challenging (Just different). I feel the AX8 has a slightly more 3D feel to it, but this is ONLY noticeable when A-Bing side by side..Inside of 1-2 minutes of playing, both are SUPER inspiring and sound really really good.. Had a few friends (Guitar player tone snobs LOL) come over and play thru and listen... ALL of us came away with the same conclusion...bot are awesome and would be beyond stoked inspired, etc to have either...Helix 2.53 awesomesauce!!  

 

Interesting post.

And good to keep it away from product bashing - they both have a good deal of merit.

Is it a "downgrade"? Its less $ but....

 

I still own both (AX-8 and a Helix).

 

#1 "organic" bit of an odd word but if I read realistic or maybe natural I agree the AX-8 still to me sounds "better" (where better = more suited to my playing / ears)

#2 Usability -  Helix wins by a long way (we all know why) and using Behringer’s FCB 1010 is excrutiating ( I sold mine) - its great value for money but..... But I have my AX-8 set just how I like it married to a FC-300 and it does what I want without a fight.

#3 AX Edit works good for me - not sure whats not to like but personal prefs again

 

I have a couple of amps in Helix I use a lot (Badonk, Archon, plus a couple of cleans) adore the recent Cosmos delay and it is an  almost perfect hardware control interface.

 

They are different - but I'll spoil myself and keep both.

But if I had to choose I am still with the sound of the AX-8. But it is getting closer as Helix develops.... Me too!!!  I have the Helix LT , thought I was missing something, that 3D feel...Got an AX8, and it does sound a little more 3D/natural, etc.. But the Helix looks cool, love the big screen, and to be honest, though it's not quite as 3D as the AX8, it's pretty sweet....Cannot decide, don't know if I can keep both....Ahhhhh!!!

 

 

Interesting post.

And good to keep it away from product bashing - they both have a good deal of merit.

Is it a "downgrade"? Its less $ but....

 

I still own both (AX-8 and a Helix).

 

#1 "organic" bit of an odd word but if I read realistic or maybe natural I agree the AX-8 still to me sounds "better" (where better = more suited to my playing / ears)

#2 Usability -  Helix wins by a long way (we all know why) and using Behringer’s FCB 1010 is excrutiating ( I sold mine) - its great value for money but..... But I have my AX-8 set just how I like it married to a FC-300 and it does what I want without a fight.

#3 AX Edit works good for me - not sure whats not to like but personal prefs again

 

I have a couple of amps in Helix I use a lot (Badonk, Archon, plus a couple of cleans) adore the recent Cosmos delay and it is an  almost perfect hardware control interface.

 

They are different - but I'll spoil myself and keep both.

But if I had to choose I am still with the sound of the AX-8. But it is getting closer as Helix develops.

Agreed, thanks..both units are great

.. Love the helix.. Siuch fun, so inspiring.. Going to get back to playing. :)

Bought an AX8, liked it , sounded pretty good, ended up down the rabbit hole trying to dial it in..Sold it, bought a Helix LT...fell in love with the U.I. and thought the tones were 90% of the way there... Thinking I was missing some of the (potential) tone of the Fractal, I bought another AX8... , learned how to edit and tweek on it, but cannot for the life of me find a tone that (i get kinda close) but can't seem to dial in that super tight high-gain yet organic and chewey tone... I get on the Helix and I have it in 5 minutes...and then 2.50 comes out and now we have Friedman!!!  So, I'm thinking of dumping the AX8 (again)..am I missing something on the AX8 or is the Helix just sound almost or as good as the Fractal?  I was looking for some help on the Fractal forum, a lot of people very nice, but everyone says I must be crazy...

Mission cab is awesome.  Keep in mind it’s still a 1 x 12, so expecting it to have the wall of sound like a recto 4 x 12 is unrealistic. That being said, it has a crap ton of balls, and with some adjustments, I am getting some pretty ripping tones.  2 of them would be epic...stereo spread..  They are pretty light.  I am actually super impressed. The more I play thru it, the more I like it.  

I totally changed 1 day after posting this.. I plufgeed back trhough my studio montors, and the Gem1 sounded midrangey, no bass, harsh, really hard to dial out the boxy sound...Took it back to GC... Plugged through an Alto210, and I'd hate to say it, crushed the Gemini (IMO) it was easier to dial in, has a good bounce and response... Honestly, the FriedmanAV12(model not exact) was KILLER...just too expensive, and for $170, I couldn't turn down the deal for the Alto...in fact, considering a 2nd one for stereo..Bass cut @ 71HZ, highend cut @9000HZ... The presence control on the amp block is a big deal as well.. a little either way goes a long way and I found to be the secret in getting rid of the harsh unatural higgs thru a fulll range cab. Just my experience and opinion, which may not mean much  : )

I purchased a Gem 1 and had the exact same experience.... Midrangey, harsh on the high and and literally NO bass response. I had a few friend/guitarists come by and play through it (to make sure I wasn't going crazy)..They noticed it right away... Laboring over a few hours of tweaking eq, etc, we got no where...I even took it in to have  a tech make sure it was working properly...Alto 112 (can't remember the exact model) SMOKED it!  Still a bit "sterile and unatural feeling, but waaaaay better than the Gem..  I did try the StageSource L2...I have to admit that this was the best so far, still takes a bit to get used to the "feel" and "bounce" form this cab, but cutting @ 71Hz for the low and 9Khz for the highs helps tremendously. Still not a s sweet as my crappy M Audio ref mon.  I'm thinking I'm going to just buy a beefy set of Yamaha studio monitors..

Returned the gemini cab to gc today. Could not for the life of me get it to sound good. Even had some other guitar players come over.. No luck. No bass response, midrangey and harsh. Sounded worse than acoustic amp. For me, helix is amazing direct recording. Live and loud, not my cup of tea. I will also say that my ax8 sounded great into the fx return of Boogie mk4... Helix not so much, but the ui is so awesome, and like i said, direct recording is kick butt. If you dont play in a cover gig, or need an arsenal of tones, frfr for live may not be for you. Thats just my experience and opinion.

Nelder17..I feel almost all alone in this thought, as I have had numerous Helix users (as well as Fractal and Kemper) praising this cab. (and other FRFR cabs)  I really have an open mind, and have had quite the learning curve experience since trying this modelling stuff.  I love the Helix through my studio monitors, not so much through the Mission cab as it just sounds harsh at the volume to play with a drummer..It has the best "feel" of the FRFR cabs I've tried, but it sounds boxy/midrangey.."small" ?   I think it could work as a personal monitor, but if you're used to a 4x12 100watt head and cab, this is COMPLETELY different.  i found this to be true for all of the AL210/212/EV/TYamaha/JBL powered cabs I've tried (Didn't try the Stagesource as I figured it would be similar) I think I'll just use the Helix for direct recording and studio jamming (so much fun and inspiring, and the helix is KILLER for this)and use my Boogie MKIV/Recto cab for the live and loud stuff. Keep in mind that i primarilly use a high gain tone set-up, minimal effects, and of course 1 or 2 cleans. I am not the type of player that NEEDS an arsenal of cabs /tones /amps for live, (but like I said, I love having all of those choices for when I want to tap into my SRV/Allman Bros/Hendrix/Robben Ford side....)     The fact is the HelixLT looks so cool and functions so well, I really want to use it live..I've been tweaking with it in my effects return of my Boogie (Turning off IR's and any cab sims). Having a little bit better luck than the FRFR cab , but still need time to really dial it in.     

I feel so differently today... All I hear is boxy/midrangey harshness with the Gemini today.. Tried the rolling off the lows and harsh highs, turning the FRFR/Cab pot on the back (helps with the harshness) but still not loving it.  Liking my M Audio ref monitors better at the moment.. wth?!?!?!  

I got the Gemini 1 a few days ago... Having a tough time with it..It sounds boxy at low vol,  harsh when I turn it up...Messing with the FRFR-Cab control on the back helps with the sizzle on the high end... But it's just weird.. It is better "feeling" than any other powered cabs I've tried(Alto, EV,) , but it has this mid-rangey thing.... I don't have this issue with my studio monitors (then again, I'm not crtanking them), and get some GREAT sounds recording, but not vibing thru the Gemini...  I think that for live and loud with the band (Hard and heavy), my MKIV and recto cab are great! I'll just use the Helix for direct recording and for all of my closeted guitar personalities  : )

Got the Gemini 1 today...Just like anything FRFR and modeling, there is a bit of tweaking that has to be done, but I will say it is the best feeling and sounding powered cab I've tried yet. I tried the Alto210 & 212 (..just "ok"), EV, a few others...Could never vibe with any of the powered monitors (like I do with my studio monitors!)  The Gemini has that "bounce" and feel you get from a guitar cab.. There's a knob on the back that goes from" frfr" to "cab"...all the way to FRFR and then back 5-10% gets rid of any sterile harshness.. Pretty impressive.. I'd like to have another ..