havkayak

Thanks! Really interesting what you write! I've never seen what you say about Cali Texas, even though I've been searching quite a bit for Helix bugs lately. Though I did not run into the problem when running the amp in another chain-design. But then I might had the bass above 0.0. It makes sense, because I've never seen the problem after placing five (I think) other amps in the chain. I will try it out for sure. I have absolutely no knowledge about how this software is constructed. Well, I have no knowledge in programming at all. But IF the problem is isolated to that amp, then I assume that this chunc of information (Cali Texas) will not be in the RAM if I choose another amp (Litigator). My thoughts have been that it could be some strange "interference" between two or more blocks when tweaked in the "right/wrong" way to each other. The Line 6 version of the patch worked fine, but it was tweaked differently. When I tweaked it, it stopped working. (Silence between 30 minutes and three hours.) In my head, then the bug could show up anywhere/anytime, just like a lottery.) If this is the case (problem in a chunk of information that I can ommit), I might even lower my shoulders when it comes to my worries about instability of the software. Then I could trust a patch (read an array of tweaked blocks of information - in my head a patch is just a log-file of "settings") if I test the patch for a period of time. Line 6 reported the problem as gone in their version of the patch. I will for sure load their version of the patch again and see if the bass in Cali Texas is abowe 0.0. But if this was confirmed by Line 6 as a bug a long time ago, and they are not able to fix it, then I think they should at least inform about it. So if anyone could confirm (or dismiss) any of my software assumtions, it would be helpful for me. At least as a first step towards trusting my Helix again ;-) Thanks again!

No, that is exactly what I talk about. It's nice that you came to that conclusion. Others might find something else. If nobody else find it, it will be a closed case. Line 6 will hear nothing about it. In the other case, then you alone can't prevent it. Then Line 6 will look into it. But what you now imply, that I don't like that you share your experience, Is totally wrong. Opinions are wanted if they are focused on the case itself, and not the OP.

Well you are right in many things. But not on the conclusions you make for me. I have no problem. I dealt with in my way - and for most people that's the best way. I've just shed light on a phenomenon (well, two). If that's not allowed in her, yes, then I get the "fan-club" feeling.

My support was that someone MIGHT find something, or give focus to something similar or crossing. If there is, and it is reported to Line 6 tech support, it can be a benefit for the whole community. In many cases you don't notice a problem before the light shines on it. In this case it might be, or it might not. It's pure and simple logic. So I disagree with you. This is a technical (support) forum, where such posts also should be found. And thank you for clearifying the somewhat odd titles given in this forum. If you are right, it's actually a relief.

That's nice of you. But if you read my post, I never asked for anybody's help. That's a very important clue to look for (if you want to help someone). Maybe that can explain your frustration? It can be a good thing to to take on in life. But if you want, I can clerify what my goal with the post was. I know that the ONLY people that are able to investgate and correct faults in the Helix is the staff at Line 6. But valuable clues are given to them by the amount of people reporting back to them. What you say, and what I say, doesn't mean anything in itself. I wanted to notice other users so they can have it in mind. If that gives more reports to Line 6 about this problem, or things that are similar, then Line 6 have a clue to follow. That is one one of the good things about a forum. It is also a good thing to have a forum to ask ""what do I do now?" But as I said, then I will ask for it. The loudest speaking people in this forum gives me the impression that this is a "fan-club" more than an technical forum. In a fan-club you should expect to be ridiculed when having diverting thoughts. In a technical forum like this, divirting thoughts should be welcome. If those voices are silenced, then it will be a loss. But when I see Line 6 staff joining in on the spitting in this post, it gives me concerns. (That makes me think of my second part of my post, where I talk about Line 6' handeling of my report. It could be something like "Thank you! Yes, we confirm. We'll take it with us. Good bye!) But in this case (in this forum), as I've said, it was actually a benefit. But in the long run, I think not. But obviously I overrated this platform. But I believe a lot of nice and interested people read my post. What they think and do about it doesn't concern me at all. I just gave voice to my experience.

Your performance suited me and others well. The four of you were brilliant. Not by your statements, but it kept the post up for a long time, so that people interested could read the main score. Thank you! I'll hire you in next time as well, kids! ;-) [Added : I just noticed, phil_m. You are titeled as a Line 6 expert. I guess you are an adult, then. I'm sorry!]

No, you are absolutely right :-) I think it is we have several subjects going. For me it's so simple that I'm not able to think of a patch in a software like a component in an amp. I worry that this and other weird bug reports (and there are quite a few) points to a deeper problems. To sudenly discover that you play with a thin, ugly tone, is one thing. I also worry that that it will freeze, or other things I have read about.

Yes, as I've said, I also believe the majority of users have no problem. But the problem is that when I meet a weird bug first hand, that for me points to a deeper problem, together with reports from others encountering weird behaviour (that didn't worry me before), then I back off for now. I'm fine with that. Probably like winning in the lottery if my Litigator patch (same structure) broke down during a show. But I don't play the lottery when I play the guitar for others. And that is how I feel when I encounter strange softwarebehaviour (in the Helix Floor). I would rather play on a smoking amp :-) Yes, for now (no prediction, just how I feel) I've only seen it in one patch (re-built several times, also by Line 6).

I'm not dependent on on my computer or my phone. On stage I am 100 % dependent on whatever I play. The people hiring us or me are, my fellow musicians are, and the audience is. Anyone experiencing a breakdown of equipment during a show, like I have, know what I'm talking about. You avoid it by all means. Then I do not play on a unit I need to "button massage" and pray for. That's why I hope Line 6 puts a huge effort in getting the software stable, to a DEGREE where I (and probably others) can trust it like a standard amp and stomp boxes.

Yes, you are right. I edited the text to clerify. Several people read "within three hours" as "three hours". The text was obviously not clear enough, so then it is a good thing to correct it. It's called intelligent communication. And I'm sure most people in Line 6 are happy with that :-) Yes of course I would like a solution. But only Line 6 can offer me that. My problem is not that the patch is not working. My problem is that I own software that obviously have issues. I can't live with that, because then I know that something MIGHT happen. If other people see it as irrelevant, then I'm perfectly ok with that. I report what I find, and then it is up to others to conclude, just like you have done.

I guess I'll go with my old Budda and take my chance... ;-)

Yes, you're right. Nothing is bulletproof. Most likely, your workaround would do that I never encountered the problem ever again. I've also made a patch with the Litigator (same structure). Never seen the problem there. But I think (read worry) "yet", because I have no clue what's causing the problem. A valve can also break, of course. I've experienced it once. But non the less, I don't worry about that. For some reason, strange things going on in software makes me more uncomfortable. And I guess it all boils down to who we are - what feels like a risk for me, will not be the same for you.

I will clerify. What I meant was that my first hand experience, together with other first hand experieces (other strange bugs), have given ME doubts about using the unit in critical situations. Ok. I was just trying to reassure myself that everything was fine. Thats good :-)

Thank you for your reply. No, the longest song is around 6 minutes, give or take, depending on our mood :-) In some projekt-playing it can be longer, but then I'm usually not continously playing. And I would not worry on a jam :-) Yes, I've thought about this as well. But when doubt have crept in, I find it hard to trust. I think the problem can show up still, or in another form. I've decided to use it for practice, untill I get some reassurance that (whatever it is) is gone.

Well, I can tell you. No, I allways play on ONE preset. I don't need anymore. What scares me off is that the volume loss is gradual. It takes time before you notice it. And it do sometimes happen after 30 minutes. And since it varies, I would not know when it happens. If it happens after 30 minutes, 3 hours, or anything in between, it can happen after 30 seconds. The rest of your post speaks for itself. It's easy to ridicule someone from behind a keyboard.

The reason is my first hand experience, and what I read of other users first hand experience. When Line 6 was not able to do it, when I was not able to do it BOTH in HX Edit and Native, then I'm done. Let's say it worked. I would still know that something was wrong. When will it show up again, and what else can happen? I had NO concerns before it happened, just like you. You imply something that is totally wrong. I've never said these things about Line 6. It's about having two thoughts in the head at the same time. I do believe that Line 6 is full of nice, competent and creative people. The way I was met, I believe, is not about that. For me it's just a sign on how business are run today - that both customers and serious craftsmen (loving their craft) are affected by. Efficiancy, image and gain. The people responsible for this is not the designers or the tech people at Line 6. It is the people in suits. I'm truly sorry if I made you angry.

By all means. I just share this. It gives me concern. I'm not asking you or anybody else to have concern. I just reported what I found, and how Line 6 chose to meet me on this. Then it is up to each and one of us to make up our minds. But of course, if you meet a problem first hand (like me and others) we will probably carry a greater concern than the ones that didn't. That's just how things are. My experence tells me not to use it on stage untill reports of odd things decline. If they don't I will do an informed sale of the unit. I'm just fine with that.

How nice of you to correct me on the syntax, rd2rk. Though i guess the majority was able to figure out what I meant. It's now corrected :-) The first patch was edited in HX Edit. The second patch was (again) edited from ground up on HX Edit. That was the patch I sent to Line 6. So I guess that Line 6 have the expertice to spot an error in the file structure. I heard nothing about that. They confirmed the volume loss. The third patch was rebuilt by Line 6 (I don't know how) and sent it to me. Line 6 said the problem was gone. I tweaked it (including the different split from 1a to 1b - look abowe) and the volume loss was still there. I told Line 6 about this (still volume loss on Helix Floor), and offered them these jpg-files, but they did not want them. They adviced me instead to service my Helix Floor. The fourth patch was built from ground up in Helix Native, and tweaked to the same settings based on the jpg-files in this post. The problem is still present. And when I say I stop here, I mean that I have offered Line 6 more than enough to look into this. Whatever I find will just give me assumptions. The only persons able to deal with this is the engineers at Line 6. But of course I share what I'm able to with you good fokes here. And I do believe efforts by the community can give them good clues (if they want it).

Really a good thing that you look into this. Maybe Line 6 want to look into your findings, and then it will be a good thing. I allways do my main edits on HX Edit. Small tweaks are usually done on Helix Floor itself. The patch in Native was edited there, of course. When I talk about stability, of course I know I'm not an expert. But I base my statement on the reports (many of them) on different odd behaviour on both Helix Floor, Helix LT and Stomp in version 2.82. Yes, if it was a Windows program, then yes, I would agree because of all the different hardware structures. But it is not. Unless I'm corrected on this, it happens on the exact same hardware (if we isolate it to the Helix Floor). If you can't tweak the settings in this program, without having problems, the platform can't be stable. But it is not terrible unstable, because then more musicians would have problems. My guess is that the vast majority have no problems. But my concern is that the same majority can have problems in a given (and unlucky) situation. That's why I will keep it off stage, even when not using this patch.

Yes, I agree with you. That's why they shoult treat the users that takes initiativ in a good way. They confirmed the bug in the beginning. That shuld be the end of the story. Thank you - we'll deal with it! Not make it into a three months story where i eventually are adviced to service my unit. And again, that has nothing to do with desent workers. Thats "image" and "strategy" (NOTHING WRONG HERE!). (Not having a stable version by 2.82 - third try - is bad for the image. Much better then to low-pay someone to "help you" to fix the unfixable.) And I truly hope Line 6 fix it, hopefully also their strategies :-). It's an extraordinary piece of gear, made by highly creative and competent people.

I appreciate everything I've got in this forum. To be fooled to communicate with a tech center for three months is a thing to mention. And I know it's not the tech peoples fault. And I'm 100 % sure that the bosses in Yamaha/Line 6 are not offended at all :-) Sorry if I offended you.

I will not invest more of my time in this, but it will for sure be interesting to read about your findings. Thanks for sharing!

If I ever have said anything that make people think that i accuse the service person(s), I'm truly sorry! I know the show: Money! The tech people even confirmed the bug in the beginning. "Economists" deside to bull***t me (and others not worthy to "bribe"), and intructs (hard working and desent people in the service centre) to run a "show" that gives them the best possible image, and the most amount of money to the owners. It's as simple as that :-) Sadly enough, that's the way it goes all over the line.

No, that would be to much to ask, but I really appreciate your interest. Even though Line 6 say it's not a problem, I truly hope THEY (Line 6) have the knowledge and the resources to fix this bug (because I find it hard to believe that they see no problem in this - even though they say so). But of course, it is allways (in these times) the economists that runs the show. If it is an undetected flaw in the software structure, anything can happen. Now, or during later software updates. But if the economists find that the "crossover" (maximum economic gain) is below a stable platform, I guess we're all stuck with that. One see this happen in most cases when entusiast companies are taken over by "the big ones".

:-) I did not read your second post... :-) I also had some problem with naming when updating to version 2.80, I remember. But not as bad as you are talking about. I can't remember how I got rid of it, but I know I did some factory resets etc. I think the best place to start is there. I send you a link to Helix Help. Here you will get information on how to do it. https://helixhelp.netlify.com/ https://helixhelp.netlify.com/manuals/helix/reset-options.html