Mattlcook

Hey, thanks.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.  I'm talking specifically about the "3-Band Comp"effects model in the Helix.  

Hi - I've been researching multiband compressors and trying to understand the common settings.  Each band has a "gain".  Can anyone tell me if this is considered "make-up gain" (applied to the ouput signal after compression), or "input gain" (applied to the input signal)?

Thanks.

Awesome answer Kilhari. That makes a lot of sense. 

1 hour ago, Kilrahi said:

 

It's a good question, and if you're just wading out into the world of modeling and impulse responses it's justifiably confusing.

 

You can make an IR of anything - and it will do what an IR can do, no more, no less. Including an amp. However, generally speaking an IR of an amp - particularly with the Helix - is seen as a step - or steps - backward, not a step forward. 

 

The keyword when it comes to an amp is CONTROL.  Ask yourself this:  How often do you tweak the settings of your cabinet (answer: never)? How often do you tweak the settings on your amp (answer: a lot).

 

The trick is to realizing what each piece of the signal chain DOES to your sound.  What is more important for creating that Vox 30 sound?  The amp or the cabinet?  It may surprise you to realize that in terms of the actual unique sound you have come to love with the Vox 30, it's the CABINET you like, not the amp. The amp has far more to do with the control of the sound (volume, drive, presence, etc.). That's not to say the amp has zero influence, only to say that the cabinet of the Vox is far more important.  In fact, swap the Vox cabinet with your favorite Marshall amp and you would notice that it starts to sound a lot like the Vox sound you've always loved BUT with the Marshall controls. So you could control the Vox sound in a Marshall way, which is kind of cool when you think about it. However, perfectly capturing those sounds with the perfect microphone in EXACTLY the way you want it is an absolute pain in the butt, and this is where the joy of IRs come in. Once you, or somebody else has done it in a way that does exactly what you need, you can capture the IR of that, slap it on the end of your cab sim, and walla, now you have it ready to go whenever, or wherever, you need it.  It's beautiful.  

 

Okay, so back to the Helix.  Yes, you could make an IR of the Vox amp - and combine it with the IR of a Vox cabinet . . . but think about what you're losing. You're only getting a teeny snapshot in time of the settings of the amp WITHOUT any distortion/compression (because the IR can't capture that among other things), and you have diddly squat in the away of control over it.  Do you want to tweak the drive to get more grit?  Yeah, can't do that.  Do you want to modify the sag or hum response like you can in the Helix amp sim?  Good luck with that.

 

Furthermore, what EXACTLY are you gaining when you give up that control? The amp sim already simulates the stuff the IR does extremely well. So you lost the control . . . you didn't gain any unique sound . . . ummm . . .

 

There's a reoccurring discussion in the Helix group over whether or not stock cabs are as good as IRs. So far it seems like the IR group has largely won (by the way, I'm a person who still tends to prefer stock cabs - frankly I find the complete and 100% allegiance IR love a little baffling but I do respect how easy they are once you find them - but then again, once you find the settings on your stock cab you're set too), but there's not contest between the Helix amp sims and an amp IR.

 

There is a reason nobody . . . or almost nobody . . . is doing it, and until there is some technological breakthrough, that's not about to change. Control is better when you are simulating control (amps), and less important when you are simulating outputs (cabs). When all you're simulating is an output that once you've found you never need to change again, a simulation of that output is divine (cab IR).

 

Still, at the end of the day, sound is sound. By all means, download those amp sims.  Maybe there is an amp you really love that isn't in the Helix, and you want to layer an IR over a Helix amp sim because it sounds really good.  Hey, If it causes you to rock the world more power to you.  Cool sounds are cool sounds, no matter how they're done.

 

If you're down for a cool read, this was one of the best reads I found:

 

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Working_Guitarist_All_About_Impulse_Responses

 

 

I’m confused by this.  I understood that IRs are used to simulate speaker cabinets.  However, I have a friend who recently got a Helix and seemed to download a full AC30 IR with amp, cabinet, mic, etc..  There are found on this page:  http://grgr.de/IR/

We’ve tried them with a guitar into the helix and just had the IR loaded by itself.  It sounded very similar to the live amp we had next to it.  

Any idea what these are?