jcshirke

21 hours ago, rd2rk said:

If you don't need the FX Loop Switching functions, there's no reason you can't put any FX you like in a single physical loop and place that on FX Loop R.

If you can find FX that themselves can be controlled by MIDI, You don't need a switcher, except for fancy loop placements within the HXSXL FX Loop.

If ALL your effects were MIDI controllable (Strymon?), you wouldn't even need the MEG, except for fancy loop placements within the HXSXL FX Loop..

How much do you REALLY NEED fancy loop placements within the HXSXL FX Loop? Do you need it in BOTH loops?

How much $$$ are you willing to spend?

As for a smaller, cheaper version of the MEG, I know of none. 

The Boss ES-5 is like the MEG (single loop), but not much less than another MEG ($425 vs $499)

The Boss ES-8 is very similar to the full size Effects Gizmo, and $750.

A little cheaper (vs $900) than the full size Effect Gizmo, and has the two loops you need to do what you can't do with the single loop MEG.

There may be cheaper things out there, and there's always the used market.

 

Okay, the longer version...

I have other pedalboards. Two of them have an ES-8 to control everything. The one I just put together is a small board I've had sitting around, and the MEG was already installed underneath it b/c I used it with a much bigger rack setup that had all kinds of crazy stuff going on. That rig ended up being dismantled a few years ago.

But the board has been sitting here. So, I planned this small board, which consists of the pedals I mentioned at the start--3 drives, a Nemesis delay, and a Flint reverb/trem pedal. I was planning on buying an ES-5 to use with it, but then it dawned on me that I could--or thought I could--do pretty much the same thing, and get more bang for my buck by putting an HXSXL on the board instead. I was wanting a small, portable rig I could take with me when I travel (my daughter plays elite soccer, and we go on long trips a lot) to use with headphones, but I also figured it could double as a small pedalboard to plug into another one of my amps, omitting the amp/cab block(s) and using it for just for its fx.

I thought a good way to accomplish either goal was to insert my external fx in the fx loop block(s) of the HXSXL. I wouldn't say the loops are fancy at all. In fact, they are really simple--dirt before the amp and delays/reverb/trem after. But I can't do exactly what I wanted to do with the external fx in the way I had planned. I guess your point above was that the MEG would need to have two separate, discrete loops to accomplish what I want. 

What I might end up doing: Place the dirt pedals in series and run them in one of the HXSXL's mono loops. (I ordered an insert cable today...Line 6 really should provide one, imo, or be clearer about how the fx loops work) Place my time-based pedals in the other loop, either in series, or by using the MEG.  That way, I should be able to place the drives before the amp and the time-based fx after using the fx loop blocks in the HXSXL.

I may not need the MEG at all, as you said. The only pedal that is controllable directly via MIDI is the Nemesis delay. I could just send PC messages to it whenever I load a preset that has that loop engaged. I'd have to switch the drive pedals on/off manually--not a real big deal. And I'd have to do the same with the Flint. I'd probably keep the delay in its on state b/c any time I engaged that fx loop, I'd be using the delay for sure. The reverb/trem would just be an extra flavor when needed.

And--if I really get frustrated or change my mind--I'll just go with plan A and eventually get an ES-5, take the HXSXL off the board, and use it--and only it--as my little travel rig.

Oh--I did some digging, and there is another, smaller device similar to the MEG. I believe it's called the Hex, and it's by Voodoo Lab. It's got 6 loops. Just about positive its MIDI controllable/programmable. $299 (I think).

8 hours ago, rd2rk said:

If you don't need the FX Loop Switching functions, there's no reason you can't put any FX you like in a single physical loop and place that on FX Loop R.

I want to reply to other parts of your post, and I will when I have a little more time. Right now, I just want to make sure I'm understanding the HXSXL's physical ins/outs for the loop, and also what it does internally once the loop is connected.

Can you create two independent fx loop chains? I would think the unit would need to have two sets of sends/returns to do so. Instead, it has one send (stereo) and two returns. 

Internally, it allows you to choose "fx loop l" and "fx loop r" blocks, in addition to "send l," "return l," "send r," and "return r." Reading the manual the "send" blocks are for routing the signal out to other types of gear you might want to hook up to the HXSXL. For my purposes, I use the fx loop block(s). But, I still don't know how to create independent fx loop l and fx loop r signal chains given the unit's physical inputs. 

Apparently I'm missing something obvious in the wiring diagrams of the rack mountable Gizmo, but I went back to the Stomp XL b/c that's the tool I have to work with, and I am still a complete novice with it. I am working on basic operation first, while slowly trying to add more advanced features.

Anyway, I was just screwing around with a preset from scratch, and I was able to insert all of the pedals from my MEG into my Stomp's signal path. I selected FX Loop L, stuck it at the front of my chain, and added each of my drive pedals in turn to make sure I had good connections. Check. All good. Then I dragged the FX Loop L block after the cab and added my delay and reverb. Check. All good again.

I turned the fx loops on/off manually just by engaging the buttons on the MEG that activate each loop. The next step will be to save them as individual presets on the MEG and recall them by MIDI using the Stomp. I was reading through the manual, looking at the editor, and also just trying to make my way through the various menus the old-fashioned way on the unit itself, but I didn't see where I would enter a MIDI PC number and save it with the preset. 

As for my quest to use the fx loop and insert fx at different points in the signal chain, I'm currently pondering options. Is there an even smaller gadget out there that I could place the drive pedals on by themselves, and then insert that device as FX Loop L early in my chain? I could then leave the delay and reverb in the MEG, designate it as FX Loop R, and place the time-based fx later in my chain. But then I don't know how I'd get both devices into the Stomp, so it would recognize them as separate devices, each on its own MIDI channel.  It seems like a pain to do this, and there may not be a big upside, but now I'm really curious if I can do it using just this small pedalboard and any other devices I could mount under it to handle these external fx and insert them via MIDI as one or the other fx loops available in the Stomp.

Seems like there is a split decision. One says my MEG can't do what I want. The other says the HX Stomp XL can. So, obviously, I have to sort it out further.

Here's what I know for sure. Let's say I want to place both a drive and my delay from the MEG into my HX. I can definitely do that by creating a preset in the MEG that will turn both of those loops on. I can then send a PC change from the HX to the MEG to insert those two fx into my signal chain. 

The only issue seems to be if the HX will be able to send the signal from the drive to one part of my chain (fx loop l??) and the delay to another (fx loop r??). I'll figure it out just by trying it as soon as I'm able. I was just curious if anyone had done something similar, or if anyone was  familiar with both units that they knew for sure whether or not I could do this--and, if so, how. 

Thank you for the replies. 

From the manual: "Send/Return Each of the sends and returns can be used independently or used together as a (mono or stereo) FX loop." Does this mean I could insert two blocks of the fx loop in my chain, so that I could have external fx in two different locations of my signal chain? If so, I'm trying to figure out how that would work.

I have 5 external effects on my small board together with the HX Stomp XL----3 drives, a Nemesis delay, and a Flint. Those fx all connect to an RJM Mini Effects Gizmo (MEG), which has 5 loops controllable via MIDI. So, I should be able to send MIDI PC commands to the MEG from the Stomp telling the MEG to insert loop 1 (or, 2, 3, 4, or 5, or any combination thereof that I create as a preset) into my HX's signal chain wherever I set the fx loop block. But, what I'm wondering is if it would be possible to insert a drive early in my signal path and then a delay or reverb later? To do so would require two instances of the fx block, I assume, and it would also require some way for me to turn the fx I need on in the MEG *and* have them end up in the right place in my signal path.

Just trying to get my head around what I may be able to do with my setup, and what may not be possible.

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

In case it wasn't clear, ITRW the amp's FX loop is between the preamp and the power amp, the idea being to not have the preamp coloring and amplifying the sound of the FX.

You can't do that with Helix.

Right, but I was basically asking if putting the time-based fx after the amp, but before the cab amounted to the same thing--or at least close enough.

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

That said, lots of people LIKE having the time based FX before the amp, among them David Gilmour and Joe Satriani. It's the way it was done before amps HAD FX Loops!

I know, but the sound does get muddy pretty quickly. EJ puts his delay before his Marshall, but he adds reverb by micing the amp and adding it in post.

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

Try them all and use what works best for you.

I will certainly experiment. Thank you.

Quick question: If you place time-based fx after the amp block, is it basically the same thing is putting those fx in an fx loop? So, for those real amps that lack an fx loop, doing so in the HX would essentially be acting as if they did have one.

I guess there is a follow-up question, too. I think I placed delay and reverb after the amp block, but before the cab block, and it sounded much better than placing the fx after the cab. If you have an amp/cab block that is combined, I assume you'd need to separate them into two blocks in order to place the fx in their proper place before the cab?

21 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

I think it really depends on your speakers.  In my studio I use Yamaha HS7 studio monitors which seems to be a pretty good match to what I hear with the DT770's...not enough difference to fixate over.  I think in all audio output devices you tend to get what you pay for.  

The Focal 65s are really nice, and were really expensive, although not quite as nice as my other pair. I still haven't put the Stomp through it, but I may try to do it today. I had my Focal 65s up for sale b/c I wasn't using them, so I have to get everything set up again first.

21 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

The first thing I thought about when you mentioned the "chewy and saturated" feel is a new effect in the modulations area named the "Retro Reel".  This simulates the natural vintage analog tape effect and might be worth looking at.  You can place it before the amp or at the end of the signal chain with different effects, but you don't need much of it to get that lovely, rich saturation you might be looking for.
 

Is that a model of Strymon's Deco (which I happen to own)?

22 hours ago, Schmalle said:

JTM 45 low gain preset for headphones

BE100 low gain preset for headphones

 

Try 'em - report back. You're welcome!

I wanted to circle back and let you know my thoughts. First of all, yes, I do like them, and I think you must have learned from Jason S's videos, since you put that LA comp at the end of the chain. I tweaked a few things just a little bit for my own tastes, and I think I'm getting some really good tones overall. I still think that single note lines sound a bit thin and plinky (yep...that's a technical term), but not so much that I'm not having fun playing/practicing. I really have to pick hard and use a heavy touch with my left hand to get those notes to sustain and ring out. Part of that is just a feature of the real amps. Part of it is playing with a Strat through those models (or real amps). But part of it is just the fact that it sounds a bit thinner still through a modeler and headphones. But it's still good/fun...I'm not complaining...I'm learning.

Thanks again.

Thanks...there's a lot to chew on and experiment with. One thing I'm noticing is that I'm getting really good rhythm sounds if I bash chords. Single note lines sound plinky in most cases. I know there's really no way to replicate the amp in a room feel and response, particularly with headphones. So, I have no illusions here. I'm going to watch some of the tutorials mentioned above to see if there are any suggestions about trying to get the feel and response as close as possible to playing a real amp. I know that what I'm hearing through my headphones is the modeled sound of a mic'ed amp, which is sometimes shockingly different from playing the amp itself. But I still think I can do better. (Been using the Princeton model the last hour or two) Off I go...

How do you add a second mic to the cab? Or do you have to add a separate cab block?

36 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

Here's what I would suggest for getting settled in with building your presets.  

Thank you for taking the time to write such a lengthy, helpful reply. 

I watched some of Jason S's videos before I made my purchase, but I haven't yet explored his channel in depth (obviously! lol) since I just got the HX Stomp XL. But now I will. 

And what you wrote about ch vol vs. master volume helps me *a lot* because all I kept thinking about regarding some of the real amps I enjoy most is that they don't have master volumes--but they do, of course, have channel volumes. And it seemed like I wasn't really getting the tonal adjustments in my sound that I wanted by adjusting them. But I started to clue in to the fact that the ch vol in the HX must basically just be a simple volume control for overall volume. My ears were starting to detect that, I guess. I assume the master volume controls of each amp have been modeled on the actual amps? Or is that kind of hit or miss?

Anyway, thanks. I've been messing around with the HX a lot today and have been having some pretty good overall results. 

One of my next moves is to try running it through some studio monitors (Focal CMS 65s) and see what kind of differences I detect vs the headphones. The main thing I'm wondering is how the gain tones are affected, and also how much I will have to tweak the presets to go from one output source to the other. 

Thank you!

1 minute ago, Schmalle said:

JTM 45 low gain preset for headphones

BE100 low gain preset for headphones

 

Try 'em - report back. You're welcome!

Thank you. I will do exactly that. 

Factory reset did exactly what you said it would. I don't know why my unit arrived the way it did. Thanks.

45 minutes ago, phil_m said:

The factory preset names should be showing up. If they aren’t, someone probably updated it and didn’t do the factory reset after updating. To do the factory reset, hold down footswitches C & D while powering up.

 

Of course, export any preset you may have created that you want to keep before doing this.

I bought it new, so no one had it before me. I'll try a factory reset. After that--try the DIR presets, as I mentioned above?

Hi,

I just got an HX Stomp XL. I'm brand new to it, and I'm starting to learn my way around. I will be using it in two ways. First, it's basically a portable travel rig that I can use with headphones. Secondarily, I have it on a small pedalboard with a few other fx that I will put in the HX loop, and I can use it as an fx rig with an amp. All my questions--for now--are about getting optimal tone out of it with headphones.

One of the things I was expecting right out of the gate was to be able to look for presets that had "DIR" in them, because I thought those were the ones that would already be most closely dialed in for my needs. Instead, all of my presets are generically labeled "New Preset." There is no other information about them. So, to get an idea of how they sound and how they are built, I have to load each one and then examine all of the blocks. Is there a way for me to d/l the stock presets with their names, so I have a quicker way to scroll through what I might want to try out first and skip past the ones I know I don't have any interest in? Should I be checking out the ones labeled "DIR" first? I know they are designed to go to FOH or to a studio monitor, right? So using them with headphones is similar. 

Despite that rough start, I started tweaking the presets that sounded decent to me, and I tried setting up a couple from scratch. The results so far have been mixed.  I want to take one example of a preset I was trying to create that ended up not sounding good to me at all, even though I would have expected it would be pretty easy to dial in. 

I wanted to use a JTM45 model, a KOT OD, some tape delay, and a 4 x 12 cab with 25w Greenbacks. That is a tried and true combo that--I would think--should sound great without a lot of tweaking. Instead, with the KOT added in especially, it sounds way too fizzy and harsh through my headphones, despite all the adjustments I've made. 

Easy solution (give a man a fish): Could someone send me their JTM45 style preset that they think sounds great, and I can see how it sounds with my setup? I'm using Beyer DT770 headphones, btw. I'm also using a Strat with this preset to try to get slightly broken up cleans and then a somewhat, chewy, saturated tone with the KOT engaged. 

More complex solution (teach a man to fish): Could someone tell me what parameters I should be adjusting first and foremost to get a good tone without having it get fizzy and ice-picky? I've done the obvious: cut the highs, turn down the treble on the amp block. Where should I set the master? Where should I set the drive? I can't tell yet if it's the drive that is making it sound fizzy or the master. I will experiment more. 

I'm certainly open to using IRs, if anyone thinks that's a solution. But I didn't think I necessarily needed to go down that rabbit hole just yet.

KOT question: I own this pedal, so I know how it works. But how does it work in the HX Stomp? It looks like --just like the real pedal--you get to tweak both the "yellow" and the "red" drive settings. I assume you can choose to have one or the other--or both--engaged? If I want to just use the yellow side, for example, I can select if I want it to function as a boost, an OD, or a higher gain drive, and then I can tweak the other parameters as well. I was able to figure that out without much trouble. How do I turn off the red side? Just dial everything down to 0? What if I want to leave yellow on, but then engage the other side as a boost? I don't think there are two dedicated stomp switches to do that, are there? Anyway, when I engage the KOT model, things go south pretty quickly, despite me turning down the gain and adjusting other parameters. It just sounds too fizzy and muddy to me.

Bottom line: I don't want to get discouraged because I trust what I've heard elsewhere in demos, on YT, and so forth. I should be able to get a really good sound out of this unit and out of this amp model in particular. I am a little concerned about trying to be able to get authentic amp tone and feel through headphones, but I'm trying to lower my expectations a bit, too. I just want it to sound good; I don't expect it to sound/feel exactly like sitting in a room with a cranked JTM45, but at a volume that isn't deafening through my headphones. That's surely not possible.

Just help me get rid of that fizz/sizzle, and help me get it to feel pretty good under my fingers?

Thanks for any suggestions, presets, tutorials to read/watch, etc.

Jeff