PierM

Where did they said that? I have received something like 25 emails screaming to apply the firmware. None of the them said battery duration was going to be reduced by 40/50%. L6 didnt say that loud at all (quite the opposite, a sneaky move, if i have to say); they just later admitted, what people reported over here, and through the opened tickets.

This is the official statement; no mention to battery life.

Line 6 Relay G10, Relay G10S, and Relay G10T wireless products were introduced beginning in 2016. Since that time, we have become aware of four incidents of extreme overheating occurring in the transmitter during recharging.

If you own any of these products—or use a G10T Transmitter with wireless-capable Line 6 Spider V/Spider V MkII or Yamaha THR-II amplifiers—you must update your product to the latest firmware as soon as possible. Step-by-step instructions are provided below.

The Line 6 Relay G10T USB Charging Cable (an optional accessory not included with Relay G10, Relay G10S, or Relay G10T), which may be used to connect a G10T transmitter to a powered USB port, can also contribute to extreme overheating in the transmitter. The Relay G10T USB Charging Cable cannot be repaired and the concern cannot be remedied by a firmware update to other Relay G10 products. If you purchased a Relay G10T USB Charging Cable, please discontinue using it. Owners of the cable who provide satisfactory proof of its destruction will receive a refund.

On 5/6/2020 at 11:02 PM, potierro said:

hi guys I've the same problem. The transmitter works for 1 1/2 hour then turns red and turns off.  Really really bad thing.... if they don't fix it soon I'm going to buy a Boss WL 20

Go with the Boss. L6 is not going back, and new units they are shipping as replacement, they are lasting the same average 2-2.5 hours per charge cycle, so it’s just bubble talk and a waste of time.

Apart the Helix, everything else coming from l6 has a short product lifespan, these days. o/ 

11 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

Hmmm... Well, last time I got my transmitter down to the point it was flashing red, which was like last weekend, it stayed that way for over 20 minutes. I didn't actually let it die, so I just recharged it at that point.

 

It really does seem to me that people are seeing very disparate behavior from their batteries.

All I know is the firmware is probably clamping charging currents, or just squeezing the math, to fool the battery charging logics, and that’s to prevent a thermal runaway, without have to recall the hardware. Whatever they did, it ruined the charge cycle lifespan by a good 40/50%, depending how many cycles the battery has/had.. Also, let’s jump on that old statement from DI;

“Here's the scoop: According to the battery vendor, the G10 transmitter specs at or better than 80% of its capacity after 300 full charging cycles. 300 full charging cycles equates to 2,400 total hours of playing, so if your gig is only one hour long, that means 2,400 gigs and 2,400 charges. What happens after 2,400 total hours of playing? Probably nothing, other than the battery might max out at 6-1/2 hours (80%) instead of 8. This is on par with Apple laptop batteries and better than many smartphones, both of which'll see way more usage than a wireless guitar transmitter.“

None of my G10 has been used for 300 full cycles, not even close. One of them had probably 50 cycles, the oldest probably 200, and in fact they were all lasting a good 6.5/7 hours before to blink red. The third unit, was a gift, that has been barely played, so it has few cycles total. As DI mentioned, battery life wasnt a factor originally (and in fact nobody ever complained about old batteries being weak), as it is not for any average Li-ion battery, which btw should last in the range of 500/1200 cycles, depending on specs and currents.

40 minutes ago, phil_m said:

What I’m still not clear on is whether people are going from the actual behavior of the transmitter or just the indicators on the receiver. In my experience, the indicators on the receiver are not very accurate. Even when my receiver is flashing red, the LED on the transmitter stays green for a good while.

I have a G10, (not the S version) so no bars for me. When stuff is flashing red, it will last 2 or 3 minutes then it’s done.

On 4/15/2020 at 8:44 PM, phil_m said:

 

How long is it lasting? I’m definitely getting very close to six hours with two of my three transmitters (the two newest ones).

You seems the only one here, that’s interesting. As I said, I have 3 units (2 mine, one of my brother), one of them it’s UNUSED, and still works for 3 hours after the update. New one, fresh from the box, just 15/20 minutes more than the other one (but it’s a delta that could be easily wrong, since it’s hard to time it precisely); around 3 hours tho., then it’s red flashing for couple of minutes and done. Honestly I see NO DIFFERENCE between a 3 years old unit or a new one, as soon as they have the latest firmware. They all behave the same. Anyway, looks same story for this guy too;

On 4/15/2020 at 6:41 PM, cruisinon2 said:

 

As much as I'd like to say otherwise, I'd look for something else if I were you. If you order a new one it's gonna come with the new firmware whether you like it or not and the battery life is significantly reduced from what it used to be. To L6's credit, they replaced my unit when the update reduced my battery life from 6+ hours to less than 3 hours... unfortunately the firmware "fix" simply doesn't allow the battery to charge to full capacity anymore, and my new one is behaving just like the old one. After just a little over an hour of playing, I'm down to one green bar on the display from a "full" charge, whereas in the past the display would indicate a "full" 3 bars for more than 2 hours.

18 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

Well, if his battery was at diminished capacity, the new unit will give him the full six hours.

Nope. Even if it's a fresh battery, it won't last 6 hours. 

7 hours ago, br_campbell said:

 

Response from Line6 today - replacement will be free.  So worth opening a ticket in that case.

If new unit has that same latest firmware, the replacement wont give you battery life back. It’s just the way it works.

11 minutes ago, meshubben said:

@PierM Where have you bought yours ? I'd like a replacement too, but the support wants me to contact my reseller, which is closed for i-dont-know-how-long...

 

 

Thomann.

...But you can also contact your local distributor, giving them your ticket ID. For what I understand, from their message, doesnt have to be the same store where you bought it.

good luck.

Today support proposed a free replacement of the transmitter, which I know already won’t change a thing, since they said an older battery may drop more than a new one, but we (me and brother) are getting exactly the same on 3 units, one of them it’s brand new. I think this is just BS, no offense. Anyway, I will try to get the replacement, hoping to receive a unit with the old firmware. If this will solve, we’ll do the same for the other 2 units, but I have very low expectation, after reading the @cruisinon2 experience with the new unit...

Just for info, this is their reply;

“The update reduces the charge capacity so that thereâs no chance of overcharge. The reduction applies to batteries in all states of previous capacity, so if an older or heavily used battery was already depleting, the update could result in shorter overall capacity.”

3 hours ago, br_campbell said:

Received the email and ran the updater.  Receiver has updated, but the transmitter update gets to about 90% and then fails - I've followed the instructions to the letter, and tried on both Mac and Windows, same result.  What next?  Had the G10 for several years and haven't had any issues at all.  Transmitter is on 1.02

If you never had any heat issue, just don't do it! It will kill the battery life down to 50%, and you can't go back from there.

14 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Ok, I'll start with the good... Line 6 customer service continues to be excellent.

Not for me.

I opened a ticket, explaining exactly what happened, they replied to try again the firmware procedure... which is of course totally useless.

People talking techno gibberish, to minimize the problem, aren't helping either.

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

You're basing your 90% number on what exactly? A few posts here? There have been over 144,000 G10 transmitters since it was originally introduced.

 

I imagine what might be happening is that some of these units were probably getting close to the end of their battery life, and there probably was some internal tolerance changed as far as monitoring the output voltage goes, so they're just registering as being low faster than they were before. I don't know. If there's a genuine issue with the firmware, I imagine it will get fixed eventually. Again, this is another reason why opening a support ticket is important. It's the only way to get real data to Line 6.

It's easy statistic.

My brother has a G10, bought 6 months ago. barely used. Average 7 hours before the update. Now it's 3 hours top.

I have 2 on my side. One is from late 2017. Before the update was average 6 hours before the update. Now it's 2.5/3 hours top.

The other one it's from late 2018, barely used (it's my backup). Before the update, 7 hours. Now 3 hours top. It's 3 units, from 3 different batches. 2017, 2018 and 2019. Two of them are basically as new.

Plenty of people here reporting this. Plenty on other forums and socials.

But yeah, you can keep being denial, as a L6 devote guy, and keep saying other people it's their own units problems.

I'm not gonna buy this BS. I'm an electronic engineer myself, so doesnt work sorry.

Yeah, no. The cable theory it’s just not true. I guess he’s just in the middle of the short period of time, where the unit works, and leds are green.

For what I see, looks like this is affecting 90% of G10 users, which makes the L6 silence really embarrassing. 

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

The answer is the same for anyone experiencing this issue. Open a support ticket.

I don't understand what's the point to open a ticket. They say you need a new transmitter. Wrong answer, since I didn't need any new transmitter until that stupid upgrade.

So the question is; who's paying for that? Im not gonna accept "me" as an answer.

Yes, the firmware completely destroyed the battery life on both my G10. One, the older, went from average 6 hours, to barely 2 hours of life. The other one does last 3 hours max. After this, it’s all a mess of nonsense red/green blinking while charging..

As for the heat, never had a problem. I upgraded because I got scared by the warning message they spammed everywhere.

I cant believe they did a such awful move without properly warning customers.

Anyway, who’s paying for the battery replacements? 

I have 2 units, they worked flawless for years, now they are both doing same crap as others are reporting.

PLEASE RELEASE A DOWNGRADE or set a global refund. This is ridiculous!

Isnt just Germany and isnt just the floor. The price raise is for entire EU, in any store with updated prices, and also rack and foot controller, they all cost more.

FH1500 is dead an buried project.

There is nothing to desire above 5.5/6Khz for guitar speakers, apart hiss and noise.

It's a dead/abandoned project imho. I have one, and I can't use it anymore as the iOS app it's totally bugged. I can't edit Variax params as it crash, and the app it's just very unstable, crashing randomly. 

I contacted L6 support, they said they know it's bugged, but they don't know when there'll be an upgrade.

As for the firmware, again, I think there'll be no changes as it's a pretty much abandoned device. If isn't Helix, everything else doesn't last that much at L6 these days.

Said that, I wish they stop doing devices with editing OS dependent, since that's creating an obsolete device as soon as the OS changes and makes the editing app obsolete and/or not running anymore. I'm sick of that honestly.

1 hour ago, guix said:

 

Helix allows you to either select 1 output only for XLR and 1/4 inch  So for  Path1 , lets say vocals, I can use XLR. BUT as I use Line 6 Link for Path 2,my guitar, to connect to my powercab, there is no way to select the output of the guitar Path to ONLY Line 6 link, hence I need to use the MULTI selection, which sends my guitar ALSO via XLR.

So in order to avoid my guitar in the FOHI pan my vocals to the right and the guitar to the left in the output, also since powercab takes only the Left channel in as it works in mono. 

 

If I could select , like we could do in the POD X3, which outputs I can send per channel, I could send my vocal stereo to XLR and my guitar in stereo to my powercab... and get another powercab for a fullly stereo vocals and stereo guitar setup

 

Makes sense? Attached an image of the current set up

 

You can;

path 1 mic to xlr, path 2 variax to digital output. Just select Digital in the output on Path 2.

It’s a OS issue, so must be fixed from Apple.

On 1/20/2020 at 8:26 PM, SaschaFranck said:

 

Why? Do you have meters on your stomp boxes, too?

You have no dB level/gain stage on regular stomps, like helix does. And yes, pedals with boost functions are better too have a meter, isnt 1960 anymore. Compressors for sure they’d be better with a meter (MXR, Becos, Keeley, EH, etc...they have a full meter). Loop FX, same story. 

On 1/18/2020 at 2:23 PM, gunpointmetal said:

Alright! Now everyone can stop blaming their lollipop sound on not having meters! Hmmmm Revv purple...

If metering happen only at output levels, not at each block level, then it’s gonna be pretty much useless.

Still, nice to see they are taking care of the aspect.

16 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

I'm not sure not having the capability is actually the case.  Certainly seeing it stated on an internet board doesn't make it so.  But it's certainly not a show stopper, even if it's not in the box.  Signal metering is easily and economically available as an add on to to anyone's rig that wants it in a number of different ways.  Would I probably use if it were there...maybe.  But the fact is I have constant metering available to me at all times in any patch without having to do something special to turn it on or off.  I just play and watch the meter.

Isn't a showstopper for sure. I'm a happy Helix user. Started with the Floor, now happy with my Rack, so that's not the point.

Point is Helix it's a killer routing machine, tons of inputs, tons of output, incredible routing capabilities. Metering would have been very welcome for me, and other users I'm sure. :)