PierM

4 hours ago, tochiro said:

Now my G10 is flashing red when on the base and does not want to charge any more!   Is there a procedure to downgrade to the previous version of the firmware?

No, you can't downgrade.

The firmware does clamp the charge to a much lower voltage, and looks like the older the battery, the slower the charging process (I guess they need the charging speed to be way slower to prevent overcharging). Sometimes does take a full day before the transmitter starts flashing green, sometimes won't charge at all, even after days sitting in the charger. Re-flashing the unit with same firmware, sometimes, does probably reset the memory, and you can charge again..but then after coupe of cycles, it will start flashing red again. Also, the battery will last only couple of hours... old , new, doesn't matter.

So, for now, just keep it in the charger for the rest of the day, and see what happens. If doesn't go green, try re-flashing again....

It's a ruined product, that's it.

I sold both my G10 because of this crap, but I will keep complaining over here, 'til I feel better. :).

On 7/20/2020 at 10:57 AM, theddeu_ said:

I've just got a brand new one, and it never worked. 

I've upgraded the firmware of both Transmitter and Receiver, and now, it blinks green for a while, sometimes the green led of the transmitter get full green, but after a while it starts blinking red, and then it stops blinking.

 

Did you guys got any response about this issue? Did you get to the conclusion if it's battery or a software problem?

It's one of the glitches of the new firmware. Software problem, to "fix" a battery problem... in other words, garbage. :)

6 hours ago, tungrocker said:

used it for 2 years without any problems, and just updated the 1.05 firmware yesterday, and now my G10T won't be charged anymore (The pulse red light forever)
That's mean if you update to the lastest firmware, that is the way you throw out your Line6 G10 because it will become useless after that.

Hi.

The firmware, doesnt only destroy the battery life, but also make the charging process extremely unstable. I got the same red flashing crap for days, (no way to charge), then started charging again, then stopped again...etc etc. It's the firmware that injected a dumb communication code, with the goal to avoid full charging of the batteries.

Believe me, as I had this on 2 G10 units, and tried to live with it for 4 weeks, but it will get worse with time. At some point, charging was impossible on both units. Open a ticket wont solve anything, as they will send you another one, with same problems. If I were living in the US, I would have started a class action against L6, but unfortunately Im in EU. For sure, what they did, isnt legal.

Anyway, get rid of it, as soon as you can, and move to a different brand.

Good luck.

22 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Seriously, Line 6 should be able to do better than what basically is a one person sparetime project (even if a little extended by now). And they should also be able to do better than what a basic driver model delivered by the operating system is offering (Core Audio) or at least use that as a reference.

I of course agree, in fact I never took the Helix into consideration as a valid audio interface. Always seen this just as a "extra" feature to pump the product, but since day 1, I've seen drivers were a bad substandard. I also think this is not just about "fix" the drivers. I believe they would need a total rewrite from scratch, but with plenty of users saying they works fine as they are (helix users are very hard to admit its weak spots and limitations, for some reason I'll never understand), I'm not seeing this happening any time soon.

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

So, what kinda latency values are you getting from that? Just curious (I consider buying a Windows convertible for live usage one day after Corona...)

So, with Helix drivers, I can't use any settings, as to make it stop glitching and crackling, I need to go up to 2048 samples (and still glitches btw), with 21 or 42ms of Latency, depending on the Sample Rate.

With A4All, using Helix just as a pass through device, I can set 64 samples, with 1.3ms of latency with no glitches (which is of course not the final latency, but still works way better than Helix).

This is on a i7 Laptop with 16GB of Ram and SSD.

21 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Hm, haven't been running into stability issues myself - but then, I'm on a different operating system. Should of course not happen on either platform.Btw, have you tried Asio4All instead of the Line 6 driver?

Yep, Im using the Asio4All instead.

Even on PC the latency is horrible. I do have a JTV loaded with a TriplePlay, and with Helix drivers always been totally unusable.

Also very unstable drivers, they crash everything they dont like.

This product is pretty much abandoned, as this section of the forums. Id suggest to open a ticket and probably send to assistance/repair...

19 hours ago, jeremyjohn90 said:

now it will be 6 hours, and proportionally similar increments should be seen with older or frequently used batteries, respectively. That is a lasting change in the product functionality due to the resolution of the potential overheating hazard. If you feel the unit is failing beyond this change, then you should contact the distributor once again, for warranty options.
Kind regards,
Jason-Line 6 support

Plain and simple bulllollipop. A bunch of liars paid to lie.

2 hours, max 2.5 hours. That’s it. If you contact support for a replacement, they will send you a new one, which last 2.5 hours.

Liars

14 hours ago, soundog said:

Well, in retrospect I'm sorry I made light of the matter (I just wanted a free Helix). I doubt it was even an engineering oversight .... it appears the recall was most likely bad lithium-ion batteries from a bad lithium battery manufacturer. Its a big pain in the arse for a company when that happens. And lithium-ion fires or injuries are no laughing matter.

It's pain for the customer too, don't forget. After their "fix" those units are pretty much useless.

ADBlock is your friend... ;)

Sold both my G10, moved to Boss WL50. Never look back.

Where did they said that? I have received something like 25 emails screaming to apply the firmware. None of the them said battery duration was going to be reduced by 40/50%. L6 didnt say that loud at all (quite the opposite, a sneaky move, if i have to say); they just later admitted, what people reported over here, and through the opened tickets.

This is the official statement; no mention to battery life.

Line 6 Relay G10, Relay G10S, and Relay G10T wireless products were introduced beginning in 2016. Since that time, we have become aware of four incidents of extreme overheating occurring in the transmitter during recharging.

If you own any of these products—or use a G10T Transmitter with wireless-capable Line 6 Spider V/Spider V MkII or Yamaha THR-II amplifiers—you must update your product to the latest firmware as soon as possible. Step-by-step instructions are provided below.

The Line 6 Relay G10T USB Charging Cable (an optional accessory not included with Relay G10, Relay G10S, or Relay G10T), which may be used to connect a G10T transmitter to a powered USB port, can also contribute to extreme overheating in the transmitter. The Relay G10T USB Charging Cable cannot be repaired and the concern cannot be remedied by a firmware update to other Relay G10 products. If you purchased a Relay G10T USB Charging Cable, please discontinue using it. Owners of the cable who provide satisfactory proof of its destruction will receive a refund.

On 5/6/2020 at 11:02 PM, potierro said:

hi guys I've the same problem. The transmitter works for 1 1/2 hour then turns red and turns off.  Really really bad thing.... if they don't fix it soon I'm going to buy a Boss WL 20

Go with the Boss. L6 is not going back, and new units they are shipping as replacement, they are lasting the same average 2-2.5 hours per charge cycle, so it’s just bubble talk and a waste of time.

Apart the Helix, everything else coming from l6 has a short product lifespan, these days. o/ 

11 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

Hmmm... Well, last time I got my transmitter down to the point it was flashing red, which was like last weekend, it stayed that way for over 20 minutes. I didn't actually let it die, so I just recharged it at that point.

 

It really does seem to me that people are seeing very disparate behavior from their batteries.

All I know is the firmware is probably clamping charging currents, or just squeezing the math, to fool the battery charging logics, and that’s to prevent a thermal runaway, without have to recall the hardware. Whatever they did, it ruined the charge cycle lifespan by a good 40/50%, depending how many cycles the battery has/had.. Also, let’s jump on that old statement from DI;

“Here's the scoop: According to the battery vendor, the G10 transmitter specs at or better than 80% of its capacity after 300 full charging cycles. 300 full charging cycles equates to 2,400 total hours of playing, so if your gig is only one hour long, that means 2,400 gigs and 2,400 charges. What happens after 2,400 total hours of playing? Probably nothing, other than the battery might max out at 6-1/2 hours (80%) instead of 8. This is on par with Apple laptop batteries and better than many smartphones, both of which'll see way more usage than a wireless guitar transmitter.“

None of my G10 has been used for 300 full cycles, not even close. One of them had probably 50 cycles, the oldest probably 200, and in fact they were all lasting a good 6.5/7 hours before to blink red. The third unit, was a gift, that has been barely played, so it has few cycles total. As DI mentioned, battery life wasnt a factor originally (and in fact nobody ever complained about old batteries being weak), as it is not for any average Li-ion battery, which btw should last in the range of 500/1200 cycles, depending on specs and currents.

40 minutes ago, phil_m said:

What I’m still not clear on is whether people are going from the actual behavior of the transmitter or just the indicators on the receiver. In my experience, the indicators on the receiver are not very accurate. Even when my receiver is flashing red, the LED on the transmitter stays green for a good while.

I have a G10, (not the S version) so no bars for me. When stuff is flashing red, it will last 2 or 3 minutes then it’s done.

On 4/15/2020 at 8:44 PM, phil_m said:

 

How long is it lasting? I’m definitely getting very close to six hours with two of my three transmitters (the two newest ones).

You seems the only one here, that’s interesting. As I said, I have 3 units (2 mine, one of my brother), one of them it’s UNUSED, and still works for 3 hours after the update. New one, fresh from the box, just 15/20 minutes more than the other one (but it’s a delta that could be easily wrong, since it’s hard to time it precisely); around 3 hours tho., then it’s red flashing for couple of minutes and done. Honestly I see NO DIFFERENCE between a 3 years old unit or a new one, as soon as they have the latest firmware. They all behave the same. Anyway, looks same story for this guy too;

On 4/15/2020 at 6:41 PM, cruisinon2 said:

 

As much as I'd like to say otherwise, I'd look for something else if I were you. If you order a new one it's gonna come with the new firmware whether you like it or not and the battery life is significantly reduced from what it used to be. To L6's credit, they replaced my unit when the update reduced my battery life from 6+ hours to less than 3 hours... unfortunately the firmware "fix" simply doesn't allow the battery to charge to full capacity anymore, and my new one is behaving just like the old one. After just a little over an hour of playing, I'm down to one green bar on the display from a "full" charge, whereas in the past the display would indicate a "full" 3 bars for more than 2 hours.

18 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

Well, if his battery was at diminished capacity, the new unit will give him the full six hours.

Nope. Even if it's a fresh battery, it won't last 6 hours. 

7 hours ago, br_campbell said:

 

Response from Line6 today - replacement will be free.  So worth opening a ticket in that case.

If new unit has that same latest firmware, the replacement wont give you battery life back. It’s just the way it works.

11 minutes ago, meshubben said:

@PierM Where have you bought yours ? I'd like a replacement too, but the support wants me to contact my reseller, which is closed for i-dont-know-how-long...

 

 

Thomann.

...But you can also contact your local distributor, giving them your ticket ID. For what I understand, from their message, doesnt have to be the same store where you bought it.

good luck.

Today support proposed a free replacement of the transmitter, which I know already won’t change a thing, since they said an older battery may drop more than a new one, but we (me and brother) are getting exactly the same on 3 units, one of them it’s brand new. I think this is just BS, no offense. Anyway, I will try to get the replacement, hoping to receive a unit with the old firmware. If this will solve, we’ll do the same for the other 2 units, but I have very low expectation, after reading the @cruisinon2 experience with the new unit...

Just for info, this is their reply;

“The update reduces the charge capacity so that thereâs no chance of overcharge. The reduction applies to batteries in all states of previous capacity, so if an older or heavily used battery was already depleting, the update could result in shorter overall capacity.”

3 hours ago, br_campbell said:

Received the email and ran the updater.  Receiver has updated, but the transmitter update gets to about 90% and then fails - I've followed the instructions to the letter, and tried on both Mac and Windows, same result.  What next?  Had the G10 for several years and haven't had any issues at all.  Transmitter is on 1.02

If you never had any heat issue, just don't do it! It will kill the battery life down to 50%, and you can't go back from there.

14 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

Ok, I'll start with the good... Line 6 customer service continues to be excellent.

Not for me.

I opened a ticket, explaining exactly what happened, they replied to try again the firmware procedure... which is of course totally useless.

People talking techno gibberish, to minimize the problem, aren't helping either.

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

You're basing your 90% number on what exactly? A few posts here? There have been over 144,000 G10 transmitters since it was originally introduced.

 

I imagine what might be happening is that some of these units were probably getting close to the end of their battery life, and there probably was some internal tolerance changed as far as monitoring the output voltage goes, so they're just registering as being low faster than they were before. I don't know. If there's a genuine issue with the firmware, I imagine it will get fixed eventually. Again, this is another reason why opening a support ticket is important. It's the only way to get real data to Line 6.

It's easy statistic.

My brother has a G10, bought 6 months ago. barely used. Average 7 hours before the update. Now it's 3 hours top.

I have 2 on my side. One is from late 2017. Before the update was average 6 hours before the update. Now it's 2.5/3 hours top.

The other one it's from late 2018, barely used (it's my backup). Before the update, 7 hours. Now 3 hours top. It's 3 units, from 3 different batches. 2017, 2018 and 2019. Two of them are basically as new.

Plenty of people here reporting this. Plenty on other forums and socials.

But yeah, you can keep being denial, as a L6 devote guy, and keep saying other people it's their own units problems.

I'm not gonna buy this BS. I'm an electronic engineer myself, so doesnt work sorry.

Yeah, no. The cable theory it’s just not true. I guess he’s just in the middle of the short period of time, where the unit works, and leds are green.

For what I see, looks like this is affecting 90% of G10 users, which makes the L6 silence really embarrassing.