grdGo33

@ElectroStrat  Kinda!   To give an example, if you put Time = 2s and Delay Div = 8, you'll get a 2 second delay but split in 8 parts; 8 splits.   If you put 50% octave and 50% reverse, well 50% for each split to be either/both. 

So with 0% Seq Drift, you might get: (N = normal, R = Reverse, O1 = Octave Up, O2 = Octave Down)

N, R, N, O1, R, R, O2, N

And this pattern will repeat infinitely: 

N, R, N, O1, R, R, O2, N,

N, R, N, O1, R, R, O2, N,

N, R, N, O1, R, R, O2, N, etc...

With Seq Drift, at 100%, it will change after each loop, ex:

N, R, N, O1, R, R, O2, N,

O2, R, N, N, O1, R, N, O2

N, N, R, R, R, O2, O1, O2, etc..

With 50% Seq Drift, there's a 50% chance the pattern changes after each loop.  So yeah, you get more randomness with Seq Drift, but the pattern you get each time is still random.  Power on/off the Go, and the pattern will change each time.

Shuffle, is the order of the splits, so without shuffle, the splits will play in order:  1, 2, 3 .. 7, 8.   But with shuffle, the order will change; so you might get:  2, 7, 8, 3, 4, 1, 6, 5.  Not sure if it's affected by Seq Drift, probably.  But it makes very little difference given the absolute randomness of the delay.

And yeah my point is that if you get the 'magic' pattern "N, R, N, O1, R, R, O2, N" and play with it for 2h, well, if you turn off the Go, or change patches, or whatever, when you come back, you'll get a totally different pattern.  So if you had built some song and techniques with this pattern, well you lost it, each time, it's a different pattern.

To be practical or usable, we would have needed a seed # (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed).  Instead of being pure randomness, give a specific number, ex; 2343243 and use this number to generate 'randomness'...  That way, we could have saved the exact behavior of the delay; so even if we turned off the go; it would have always played the exact same patterns every time.  But that was not to be...  :\

@silverhead  lol

and btw @voxman55 I think I'll change my tune and agree with you about "But with very little practical value"...  I mean, not sure exactly what I was doing when I was first trying it, mostly interacting with the delay (wish I knew exactly what I did), but the issue with the delay is that totally random...  Even with the exact same settings; as soon as you change any of the random parameters, or every time you'll power on/off the unit you'll get totally different sounds/behaviors, so it makes it really really hard to really use it in any sort of practical way...

Ex; Had a 2s time with 8 divs, shuffle & octave + reverse; and just playing a chord and listening to the delay, if you're lucky, you can get a great sounding pattern; which has a beat, melody, and you can basically use it as a backing track; both with percussion (shuffle setting) and with slice feedback you can get great ambience... (try with 100% rolled back tone)   BUT..  As I said, if you touch a setting, you'll lose your existing pattern...  So if you had this genius loop/melody thing going, poof!  Gone!   And you'll never get it back...  So really like a sort of fun improv tool, but the total randomness... Yeah kills the practicality.  (unlike the other one where you set your intervals & you can save the pattern, don't recall the name..)

Not sure how/why, that wasn't quite my perception the 1st try...  But yeah, I changed my tune, fun, but not very...  Hmmmm...   Actually...  Well, I said they're lost... Well they're lost on the Pod Go, but you could always record in audacity or whatever, and use it as backing track... but it's still gone from Go, so couldn't redo the same with guit + go...   So yeah, could be usable.  Maybe like 40% 'practical'  LOL

Ok yeah 100% it is bugged.  The issue is that if you change the Delay Div value, the new 'splits' are instantiated with default values instead of your current values.  So if you set everything to zero and go from 3 to 4 delay div value, it'll create a 4th 'split', and this new split will have non-zero values for shuffle/octaver/reverse/etc., which is why it goes from a digital delay to some garbled WFT sound that makes no sense.  The new instance should have been instanced with current values.  Which is not the case...  Seems to be intermittent though, reproduced after changing block to Glitch Delay, but on a saved patch, didn't seem to occur...

Workaround: 

- Change the value of the octave and reverse % after modifying Delay Div, seems to reinitialize all splits with current value.

- Or, save, load another patch, then go back, seems to work also.

BUGGED.

I thought maybe it could be a feature; allowing you to set each 'split' with a specific value, (ex; 1st = octaver, 2nd reverse, 3rd nothing, 4th = octaver, etc.) but it does not seem to be the case; really just an intermittent bug.

Btw watching Jason in the above vid completely struggle to figure out the delay and mostly fail, and honestly only getting quite poor sounds out of it, mostly because he keeps using a high Div value which screws everything up due to the above (lol), the bad positioning of seq drift in GUI making it's function unintuitive and confusing him for the other parameters apparently not working as they should, etc., is kinda validating vs those who say that "Oh Go/Edit so simple to use!".  lol

Anyway, btw, does anyone know of a good resource for such effects?  Which explain in details the parameters and 'special features' of different blocks?  Like this lack of documentation, coupled with some bugs and unintuitiveness, really makes things which should have been simple, really not so simple.. (Recurring issue with Go... :\ )

3 hours ago, voxman55 said:

"Very fun delay!  :D "

 

But with very little practical value - there's more than enough amp, cabs, & fx already in Pod Go such that most users have option paralysis as it is, and I hope that having satisfied the masses who are mostly bedroom players and just want more toys to play with by adding some extra fx, amps, cabs

Well that's kinda debatable...   Of course, it's not going to replace your traditional delay for traditional music, so if all you're doing with the Go is play covers of famous rock/blues/jazz/etc. bands, it might as well not exist.  And of course if you just turn it on and play your led zep song it's going to sound like a garbled mess.  So yeah, in that case, very little practical value.

But, as a creative tool, it does open up some possibilities.    Shame I didn't save the patches and riffs I had going on yesterday (was just testing out, didn't think I'd end up with anything), I'm revisting it todya and now I'm totally bugged with this setting:

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Delay Div—Divides the delay time into smaller increments

What does this mean?  If I put all the params shuffling/reverse/octave, etc., zero, just have 1s time configured, with:

Delay Div value 1 to 4:  sounds exactly like a regular digital delay
Delay Div value 5:  then it gets buggy and clippy.  It's like random, it's like the first 3/5ths are normal, then it clips at 4/5th

But 15m later, it now bugs with values Delay Div value of 3 ...

So from what I understand, say you put Time 4s, and you put the Div at 4, then it's going to split your 4s time into four splits of 1s, and then it will randomly assign for each 1s split a randome reverse/octave/etc...  So basically; four 'splits' of randomness.

But if you assign too many divs, then it appears that the glitch delay glitches, and it will stop functioning normally.  I thought it might be a latency issue; 1s divided by 5 = 200ms, which for some reason might have been too much for the Go, but if you set 4s time and 8 div (splits of 500ms) then it glitches the same way, so it's not really time related, it's really that if the div value is too high, it just bugs out? 

It really does look like the delay is bugged...  As if the Go does not have the ability to handle higher Div values...!   So is this a bug with the Go?  Or is there some logical explanation I'm missing?  [edit] found some vids of helix, and it seems to do the same.  So "Divides the delay time into smaller increments" might just be wrong/inaccurate, as it does seem to add some sort of random element to it:

Yeah you can definitely hear it at 4m30 when he increases it to 8, then there is a clear octaver in there; so ...  it appears that "Delay Div: Divides the delay time into smaller increments" is inaccurate ...  A more accurate description would be something like:  "Delay Div: Divides the delay time into smaller increments and adds random elements with higher values" or something like that ...   Sigh ...

But yeah, that bit I quoted with the settings description isn't from L6 or the Helix manual it seems.  Just downloaded the Helix manual, and it has ZERO explanation on the Glitch Delay parameters...  So I think it's just a 3rd party guy that did the documentation I quoted, which would very well explain why it's not 100% accurate...

Ah yes, the good old; damned if you do, damned if you don't  lol

Off to try the new Benzin amps!  :D   Quite fun getting new goodies like that!

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1. Snapshot naming

2. Multi footswitch naming

3. At least one extra user block (2 would be great) to be a bit more flexible so that provided your selections were less DSP hungry, you could have some additional flexibility - particularly useful for creating a stomp pedal board for gigging where you could add eg a compressor and a second modulation or distortion etc.  It wouldn't give more DSP, but Line 6 upped HX Stomp from 6 to 8 slots, so it is doable.

++!

Yeah it's surprisingly not bad!  It doesn't sound 100% like a real acoustic, but, it can kinda sound like a piezzo PU, anyway, sounds closer to an acoustic than just a regular single coil PU.

Hmmm..  Slightly bugged in PGO edit though, when you try to select the amp sim, it just resets back to the 1st node with the noise gate and guitar selection...  It's like it selects the correct block for 1/10th of a second, then goes back to input/noisegate ... !   But now it stopped... Hmmmm...  Strange...!  Anyway, cool feature!  :D

You're in luck!  New update just released, install and check if it fixes your issue!

Update went flawlessly this time, love the new glitch delay, thanks!  :D

Anyone knows how it works?  Never mind...  I finally stumbled on this site.  So until the manual gets updated, this site will likely have the info for the new effects!   https://dshowmusic.com/line-6-helix-effect-models/   Or yeah would also be in the Helix manual...   Should have thought about that lol 
 

5 hours ago, silverhead said:

It won’t be long before the next series of enquiries about this begins for real. I predict that some time soon after Helix v3.10 drops  POD Go users will start asking when they are going to get any new models that Helix users will then have.

Yeah, maybe because I`m not as ancient here as others, but we'll have a better idea of the typical time frames.  Helix 3.0 was released last November, so it took about 4 months for new features from Helix to trickle down to the Pod Go.  So next time, we'll have a better idea.  :)  (Communication by L6 about future release firmware/patch ETAs with expected features would be nice to have!)

Plus I think we`ve gotten pretty much everything as expected!  :D    (https://line6.com/support/topic/59695-pod-go/?do=findComment&comment=372131)  all except

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Volume/Pan > Stereo Imager (Stereo), Line 6 Original. Used to increase the apparent stereo width of your signal when connecting Helix to two amps or a stereo playback system; just make sure there aren't any mono blocks after it!

 

Looper > Shuffling Looper (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original. Part looper, part sampler, part inspiration generator, part performance instrument, the Shuffling Looper intelligently chops up your playing and gives you real-time control over reordering, octave shifting, reversing, and repeating. It's all immense fun (even on vocals, drums, and percussion), but you'll want to familiarize yourself with its controls. IMPORTANT: The Shuffling Looper does not currently respond to Command Center > HX Commands or per-function MIDI commands

 

Still with the Glitch delay, you can sort of reproduce the shuffling looper; they're at least somewhat similar in terms of effect I think...

On 3/5/2021 at 5:11 PM, metal-j said:

I am thinking for my favorite patches, I will probably make this a snapshot so I am not always at maximum output when not recording.  Hope that helps someone.  I couldn't find this answer anywhere else.

The issue with that is that your risk inadvertently activating it when you don't expect and blow your speakers or ears...

I've got all my patches also relatively low volume to go around issues with too high level making my looper distort.  When DAW'ing, I reduce the speaker's volume, and crank the channel volume.  Sure, bit tedious, but less chance of playing, pressing the wrong button and the sound going from 3 to 10...

nope

are you using the latest firmware?  There was no sound issues that were fixed, so if not up to date, update!

Seems like I'm always posting the same preset video lol    imho they're really not terrible, hell, listen to the above, they mostly sound pretty good; not something you'd be shocked at hearing on a record or radio.  It's really a combination using a fitting guitar and style for the preset, using it for what it does, etc.   They can sound a bit 'bland' or generic, anyway, they're just presets.  IMHO, they're not even really intended to be actively used.  Don't think anyone at L6 believes anyone will buy PGO and will try to use the unit with its presets...   PGO is really made for you to configure your own sounds.  

Easy way to 'fix':  Try each preset.  Just save the dozen of so presets you like or find decent to your user patch list, customize for your taste/guitar/style or for starting point of new patches, then never visit the presets ever again.

Quote

Re the part of your statement above that I've put in bold - utter and complete nonsense.

Oh snap!  The gauntlet has been thrown!!!   :p

Yeah the presets are ... lackluster.  It would have been nice if they were categorized; jazz, metal, rock, lead, ambient, etc., but yeah it's all mixed up.  It's worth it going through each preset though, noting what you like and dislike, check what effects they're using, etc. 

Also, you can download patches from the L6 free share thing, so maybe you'll have better luck finding the type of sound you like.  But anyway, even if you had the perfect patch, you'll likely need to adjust it for your own guitar, amp, etc.

Yeah fast startup didn't fix it...

To describe the issue; it gets to the login screen, but once you login, then the screen becomes black and/or starts flashing for a bit, then the CPU apparently sky rockets because the fans of the laptop are running at max speed, then a few minutes later BSOD.  I just unplugged the Go from the hub and it booted without issue, so it is 100% caused by the Go and its drivers...

Maybe!  Although I did use a hub with my PC and it worked without issue...  But I do also have the fast startup disabled on my PC...   But yeah I'll try it!  If the fast boot does not work, I'll try going without the hub see if it fixes the issue!  Thanks!

Recently changed the computer I'm using with the Pod Go, went from a PC to a Dell XPS 9570 laptop. And ever since, the laptop has been having booting issues.  But if I remove the USB hub with the Go and keyboard+mouse, does not seem to have any booting issue.  Something about driver power on state or something like that... 

Looking online different errors from the event viewer, it might be caused by the fast startup options in the power settings...  So maybe that'll fix it...  Anyhow, maybe this could help someone someone else, or has anyone else had such issues and found a fix?

There might be some streaming software that does it, which is pretty much what you seem to be trying to achieve.

https://www.thetechlounge.com/best-streaming-software/

Anyway, with distinct tools;

1) download and play your YT video

2) record your guitar using a DAW

3) record your webcam video / sound using some other software

4) merge everything using video editor

Of course this wouldn't be 'live'.  If you output the sound via Go, there will be no delay, probably need a decent pc to pull it off!

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I spent some 15 hours to produce a preset list for Pod GO bank by bank

Wow... Crazy!

On 6/28/2020 at 7:37 PM, silverhead said:

To be able to restore individual presets you need to back them up as individual presets. You can also save individual setlists, but you can’t restore individual presets from a saved setlist. There three levels of save/backup capabilities: presets, setlists, and system (including global settings). You can’t mix and match presets and setlist but I believe you can choose which setlists you want to restore from a system backup (at least you can in Helix; not sure about POD Go).

 

As described earlier, you can save multiple, or all, presets in a setlist in a single operation and then you’ll have them as individual presets.

Btw, for exporting/importing single, the format for exporting all the presets vs single is very likely the same, so by opening the file in a text editor, you'd be able to find the preset you're interested and simply copy the block to a single file. 

Yeah, a patch (.pgp) is in JSON format, so 99% sure the full export also is, so if you take a single patch export, replace its content with the patch you're interested in, you could likely import a single patch from the complete setlist.  **To Be Confirmed!**  If it's the 1% and they chose to use a different format for the 'setlist', then it would not work; but highly unlikely as it would have doubled the programming work by creating 2 import types..  JSON format is simple, plus there are guides & json validators online.

hopefully..

Quote

what sound does a tree make when it falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it? Using a microphone to capture the sound is artificial!! I want the ‘real’ sound as if I were standing there at the time. How can you ever know what that sounds like without recording it? And then, of course, what you get is the sound coloured by the actual mic used to record it.

The sound (sound waves) is exactly the same whether someone is there to hear it.  

And that is exactly the premise of the entire music and recording industry;  an event occurs which causes sound vibrations, those vibration are captured and stored on a device (ex; mic & CD), then, the data is read, and converted back to sound waves (tranducers; speakers).   That's how you can hear someone playing example violin in your room via speakers even if there is nobody in your room playing violin.

What is artificial in my original comment is that you can ONLY hear a cab via a microphone, and the actual sound you would hear from say a 4x12 Marshall in a living room does not exist in Helix/Go.  Nobody listens to a 4x12 two or five inches away ...  And I'm pretty sure that a well recorded 4x12 in a room (using mic blends or whatever; just recording the cab so that it sounds as close as possible as to what you would hear in room) would not sound like with the Helix/Go set at 12 feet or whatever...

But yeah, maybe it's just a bad idea... I mean; setting up a pair of speakers to get optimal sound in a room is a PITA, and then you need to be seated at a precise location in the room; as if you move around, the sound goes to hell.   But yeah, if you had a room and a cab, and walked around in the room to the best spot to listen to the cab, that could well be a good capture point for an in-room IR.

But maybe also the sound you get via the current cab+mic Go/Helix system is just way better than my 'in room' concept... It might very well end up sounding poorly vs any other 'standard' Helix mic+cab setting, as there is no 'accurate' in room 'sound', it would be the sound at one spot in a particular room; and given the FR effects of the room, reverberation, etc., might just sound 'poor' vs a cleanly recorded cab...  Still, my old Digitech RP5 had reverbs like stadium, hall, church, bathroom, garage, etc., which made it sound like you were playing in one of those environments, it was pretty cool.

But yeah the entire microphone thing seems to be a big can of worms also...  Although the maybe the 'new' laser microphones could do the job!  :D

https://germanmasterworks.com/publish/articles/Advice/The-Myth-of-the-Accurate-Microphone.html

https://www.engadget.com/2009-09-21-laser-accurate-microphone-proves-once-and-for-all-that-everythin.html

30 minutes ago, silverhead said:

A ‘perfect’ mic?    Hmmmm..... interesting. Perfect according to whom or to what standard? We can get really metaphysical here.

Absolutely zero metaphysical!  Just meaning; captures the sound waves perfectly.  IF we had a perfect transducer and a perfect mic, we could simply compare the original signal and the recorded signal; what is commonly called a null test.  So; it would be 'what comes closest'. 

Now there's no perfect transducer (which is what we want to capture with 'cabs' emulation; distortion of the signal).  With microphones, there are correction curves to alleviate the mic's FR aberrations, so already that ?should? give us fairly close representation of the sound of the cab?

Quick search results in results such as these, but I'm not entirely sure how it would end up sounding say if we put a cab in a room or anechoic chamber and recorded them using one of these, then using as IR or emulation reference...

https://www.bksv.com/en/transducers/acoustic/microphones

https://earthworksaudio.com/measurement-microphones/

http://www.josephson.com/pdf/srs5.pdf

http://www.josephson.com/pdf/c617setds05.pdf

Going on a tangent; for headphone use, it would be, I think, fairly simple to generate a binaural IR, and that would put us in the room with the cab.  That would be cool.  But that wouldn't work for speakers; for speakers, you'd be better off with a pair of the most accurate mics & creating an IR...   And yeah... IR...

Actually, that entire topic could in fact be summed up as an in-room IR; taken with a very accurate (realistic sounding) microphone...

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how (without using a mic) do you capture and emulate/model the sound of the ‘real’ cab?

It would be fairly simple; 'perfect mic'.  Well maybe it's not that simple...!  lol   But yeah, you do need a mic at one point I'm guessing, maybe there is a multi-million dollar experimental/scientific near-perfect mic that could be used, if you want to go kind of the IR way?  Maybe using mic blends & source signal to get from the original signal to what you would hear in a room?

https://moneyinc.com/most-expensive-microphones-in-the-world/

https://mynewmicrophone.com/top-20-most-expensive-microphones-on-the-market-today/

But we have a source signal before going in cab.  The cab (with an IR or other) will have an effect on the signal; that likely already built in Helix; the helix does appear to have 'cab' emulation, and 'mic' emulation...  Unless the Helix basically uses an IR of every possible cab + mic + distance?  (I don't think so, think it's mic emulation + cab emulation?)

But anyway, likely, it could be similar to what Helix uses; just using the 'cab' algorithm, plus some room reverb, and yeah 'distance' probably isn't even really relevant, just having cab + room without variable distance parameter would be great!

I was just thinking, a great feature to have in the cab section would be a head or human instead of a mic.  Let me explain; in the cab block; you mainly select a cab, a mic and a distance.  But why not also have the ability to select a person?   Meaning; say you had a 4x12 in a room, and you were 8 meters away from the cab; how would it sound if you were in the room?  (aka; if it was recorded with a perfect mic?)

I think that actually this should have been the default setting for all cabs.  How would the amp sound if you were in the room?  When you have to select a mic, you're basically removing cab simulation from unit; and you're basically saying, this is how it would sound if it was recorded.  I mean it's fine/great to have as a feature, getting the recorded mic+cab tone from albums is great.  But, the Go lacks the most basic ability to emulate a guitar cab.  It cannot emulate the sound of a cab; of how a plain cab would sound to a human in a room.  It can only emulate the sound of a cab if it were recorded with a microphone...  And that is to me quite an artificial way to treat cabs. 

The most basic way to use an amp and a cab is playing them directly, and hearing the sound.  The Go lacks this most basic feature.  This would simplify tremendously the cab block, and I think might help get some great tones also...  Of course room becomes a parameter; are you playing in a garage, bedroom, church, etc., (reverb characteristics) but many reverbs aren't super expensive DSP wise, and if my my old 1994 Digitech RP5 could do such reverbs; don't think the PGO couldn't...

Thoughts?  Any idea why there isn't such implementation?