benthere77

This question/issue pertains to using the Pod GO for effects-only into my amp (Amp Out to "Power Amp In").

When using the "1 SW Mono Looper" (or stereo) I'm having some weird behavior with volume.  If I record a loop and just play the loop, the playback volume comes out at the same level I recorded it.  However, when I try to play over that loop the loop volume decreases to barely audible and my main guitar signal comes through at normal volume.  The second I stop playing the loop volume comes back to normal level.

Anyone else have this problem?  I sold my looper pedal when I bought the Pod GO because I felt certain the GO could handle this basic function.  I'm probably doing something wrong.

Any help/advice is appreciated.

25 minutes ago, ashetler1 said:

I will start by saying I don’t have a real amp to compare it to. I have the power cab plus, I bought it a month or so ago when it was on sale for 650. It was between that or going 4cm with a supersonic 22( I had this amp previous to the helix and loved it). At the sale price I told myself if I was ever going to try a powercab now is the time and that if I was happy with it then I wasn’t going to obsess over needing to A/B it with a real amp. With all that being said, to me it sounds and feels like a real amp. Before I was doing the frfr thing through a pair of line 6 l3m speakers which are a 2000 dollar set of speakers, and I spent over a year trying to dial in something I liked so it’s not like I didn’t give it a chance. I am very happy with the sound/feel at this point. Does the vintage 30 speaker model sound and feel identical to a real cab and speaker? I don’t know. I’d love to A/B it someday but for now I don’t really care because I think the speaker models sound and feel great. On top of sounding great, you have the ability to save which speaker you want in your presets or snapshots so you can go for a Jenson on your clean tone and with the press of your foot go to a greenback for overdrive. Just one example. 

Thanks for the info.  I think this may be the way for me to go eventually.  I'll hold off for a few months since I just purchased a lot of new gear but I think I'll like the power cab better than the frfr.

Does it still have great tone at bedroom volume levels?
 

11 hours ago, ashetler1 said:

The powercab plus will give you the flexibility of choosing different speaker types or even using irs in frfr mode. I personally can’t get used to playing through frfr speaker systems, so the speaker models on the powercab are the ticket for me. It just sounds and feels more like a traditional amp+cab set up to me. If you use the l6 link to connect the helix to powercab you can control and save the powercab settings on the helix. I was on the fence about sticking with the helix as an all in one rig until I got the powercab now I don’t think I could do much better. I don’t doubt that the right tube amp with the right cab... (right for me being the key element), would be superior to my ears, although I suspect it would be a minor improvement considering how happy I am with my current set up. My plan now is to use the helix + powercab as a guide to decide what traditional amp+cab set up I want to save up for in the future. 

I assume you are referring to the Line 6 power cab that is about $600 new? 

Does this really give you the "amp in the room" sound/feel. Also, can you get good tones even at bedroom/living-room levels?  

I'm currently using the HR108 and although it has some plusses and you can't argue with the price, I also am having a very hard time getting used to the frfr sound/feel.  In fact I'm not sure I even can get used to it so if this power cab is significantly better that might be an option for me.

On 7/20/2020 at 7:07 AM, bennylee79 said:

Hi Benthere77, Ive got the same problem, Podgo into Headrush FRFR108, it has horrible tone. This is on the factory presets and downloaded presets. No amount of tweaking (hi/lo cut/etc) works, so i got TRS cables to try, still the same. When i go into the fx return on my Marshall DSL 40 it sounds a 100 times better. What settings are you running on podgo as i'm about an hour away from selling the headrush. Feeling really deflated by it

Sorry for the delayed response.  Busy with work last few days and haven't checked in on this forum.

"What are my settings?"  This is a very loaded question! Lol...There are so MANY settings. Also, I'm still trying to figure this damn thing out.

Let me preface this by saying I'm still not satisfied with my sound through the HeadRush but getting better.  

The quickest thing I can recommend is to try these patches I've attached.  The ".wav" file is an "I/R".  After importing the patches below (and the .wav file) alter the patches to use this "IR".  It goes in the cab slot of the effects chain but the I/R option will only be available if you have an IR loaded.  Make sure that "Global EQ" (in preferences) is bypassed when you try these patches.   These should give you a decent sound through the HR108. 

I'm sorry you are feeling deflated.  I felt the exact same way.  Really was sort of devastating as I had so much excitement and anticipation about getting this.  

(PS: If you like these tones and have success...go to YouTube and find a guy named Jonathan Cordy.  Check out his Pod Go videos as these are his tones and maybe use the donation link to send him a few bucks or "buy him coffee" or whatever.)

 

OH 412 MES-ST V60 OH1F-06.wav JCFullert2.pgp JcTwin.pgp JcTwinB.pgp JcTwinC.pgp

Great post and thanks again for helping me get started and fight through the initial frustrations.  I was naïve and/or very heavily swayed by the reviews and was expecting instant gratification.  I was so close to returning the unit but glad I didn't.  For the price especially, this is a mind blowing piece of equipment.   Have I achieved tone heaven and perfect satisfaction on all levels yet (now two weeks in)?  No.  But that probably isn't possible anyway.  In terms of sound through the headphones I would say I have achieved tone heaven but I'm not there on playing through speaker.  Yet.  I can see the possibility.  Part of my issue is probably that I'm so used to the "amp in the room" sound vs the mic'ed amp through speaker sound.  

My biggest breakthrough on the Go (other than realizing I was using the wrong cable at first) was downloading some patches created by more experienced users to see how they worked and also finding some Helix patches that I liked and using the raw text file to re-create those tones in the Go.  That in particular helped me tons.  The cool thing is that the Go is so complex it will keep me busy for a very long time.  Perfect for quarantine.

11 hours ago, cristt said:

I don't know if it was on another topic but a possible solution might be using a stereo (balanced-TRS) jack cable from the pod go to the speaker, instead of a normal instrument (mono) jack cable.

That was exactly the problem!  It probably did come up on another thread because I posted the solution there once I figured it out.  Three days of thinking I had made a huge mistake to going "wow, this thing is really cool and sounds incredible!"

On 7/16/2020 at 2:01 PM, codamedia said:

 

Yeah well... the Headrush is an FRFR that will require cabinet modeling, the Katana already has a cabinet so it doesn't. Therefore your findings are exactly what I would expect. 

I'm not sure if you understood what I said earlier though... the Katana also has "power amp modeling" so IF POSSIBLE, (ie: if it's an option) just use a preamp model on the Pod Go. 

 

I'm still not understanding it to be honest.  What I do with the Katana (power amp in option) is use a balanced cable from the Main OUt (mono) on Pod GO.  I choose all normal options for the effects chain (including "pre amp", like "US Deluxe Norm") but I disable the cab option (which is always displayed right after the amp).

Thanks for being patient with me....

On 7/17/2020 at 7:05 AM, ChickenChaser said:

First post, i've got a Helix LT which I use for home playing. I currently don't own a 'proper amp', I only have a Vox Adio Air and a set of iLoud monitor speakers. The iLouds don't do the helix justice as the speakers are too small to have that proper amp feeling. The Adio is ok but starts to fart a bit at volume. I'm considering either a Headrush 108 or a Katana MkII 100. Headrush £100 cheaper but price isnt a concern. The room I play in isn't very big and its not set up acoustically. Fortunately its positioned in the house where I can make a fair amount of noise . 

 

Which would do the job better? The Headrush or the Katana?

I actually have both of these (hr108 and katana 100 mkii) and have been experimenting with them for the last couple of weeks.  I have a small room also, which makes the HeadRush 108 a little awkward but it still has some plusses.  
 

Unfortunately I can't tell you which one is the hands down winner but I will say the Katana is just an amazing amp in and of itself. Also, my Pod GO through the Katana power amp in sounds pretty comparable to the HR108 with the caveat that you can't (or maybe shouldn't?) use the Helix cab/mic/IR sims.   So when I want to use one of the Helix cab/mic sims or IRs I play through the HeadRush.  Otherwise the Katana.   

Wish I could give you more clarity but that's my experience so far.  I think part of my issue with the HR108 is that I am so accustomed to the "amp in the room" sound that hearing a "mic'ed up cab" sound still feels/sounds a little weird to me.

What is the best set-up to use the GO just for the effects?  Does this really require the four cable method?

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Uhm. You are likely about to enter the biggest rabbit hole of the ultimate tone hunting crusade in the digital realm.

For a start, check out Line 6's freebies, the "Allure Pack". They are available here:

https://line6.com/allure/

Then there's a free Marshall 4x12 pack from Redwirez, you only need to sign up for the newsletter, I find these excellent for any kind of typical rock sounds:

https://redwirez.com/

York Audio has a teaser pack for $1, a Mesa 2x12 with V30s, IMO they're quite nice, not just too much variety, but that might even be a good thing:

https://www.yorkaudio.co/product-page/mes-212-v30-limited

If you want the ultimate rabbit hole for free, look up Seacow Cabs (no, I don't post a link - because in case you're just starting out, these will be complete overkill, seriously!)

And if you plan to spend some bucks, here's another list:

http://dshowmusic.com/impulse-responses-for-line-6-helix/

 

Some of these sites offer free teasers, but again, I really don't recommend to jump onto too many of them in case you're new to this.

There's also a plethora of threads about free cab IRs on pretty much any guitar oriented forum, but the same as above applies - it's just too easy to completely get lost.

 

You might as well try out the two IRs attached, I created and mangled them myself, but they're nothing impressive, they're made to suit my live playing needs (I think they're good as an alround cab suitable for pretty much any amp - at least that was why I created them).

 

Gen_01.wav 3.03 kB · 0 downloads Gen_01_bright.wav 5.04 kB · 0 downloads

Man, the last thing I need is yet another rabbit hole. For now I will check out these that you have and leave it alone.  

Thank you!

1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

A preset knows to use an "IR" because an IR block was used rather than a Cab or Dual Cab block.  When the IR block is placed into the signal chain you then configure that IR to use one of the IR's you have loaded into the 128 available slots for IRs in the Helix which tells the preset which one of the IRs will be used for that preset.

Generally speaking an IR or a Cab block are interchangeable.  The difference being in a Cab block you have to do all the work of configuring which mic or mic combination is being used, how they are placed on the cabinet, and a number of other relevant factors...all of which can be changed at any time to vary the sound.  An IR, on the other hand, is already preconfigured with that sort of information so it's just dropped in with no additional configuration info needed.  I personally prefer IRs simply because they are quicker and a lot less work than cab blocks.

Thanks...this actually makes perfect sense and I finally see the spot in the editor that shows there's an IR instead of a cab being used for the preset.  Very cool.  

Is there some kind of online marketplace for IRs?  I only have one and I really like it.  I'd be interested in checking out some others.

What exactly is an "IR"?  How are these created?   What is their purpose?

Mind you I ask these questions even after downloading one from a YouTuber to use with one of his presets and it sounds amazing.  How does a specific preset/tone know to use an "IR" and how does it know which IR to use?   (given that you can have like dozens of these installed at one time)   Would an "IR" only be desirable when used with an frfr (or equivalent) speaker?

3 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

There are no dumb questions :) 

I wish I had access to a POD Go.... I'm looking through manuals but don't see anything written out clearly. 

 

My hunch tells me that "full amp model" includes the preamp, power amp and cab, while "pre amp model plus cab" is likely just the preamp and cab, no power amp modeling. 

 

The power amp modelling has settings like "sag, bias, x-bias, etc... etc..."  

Ultimately, you will want to avoid power amp settings and a cabinet/IR if you are going into the power amp input on a Katana MK II. 

 

 

So I'm actually using both a HeadRush frfr and a Boss Katana 100 MKii.  (But not at the same time!)

On the HR it definitely sounds like garbage if I don't select and enable a cabinet/mic, etc.   On the Katana it sounds best if I disable this.

The bottom line is that I really have a ton of experimenting and learning to do.  Most of my home-made Go tones sound pretty bad but I downloaded some created by a YouTuber and they are absolutely amazing.  Also I found a couple of free Helix downloads that fit my style and while those aren't compatible to directly import into the GO, you can open the file with a text editor and fairly easily translate that to settings on the Go.   Got a couple of very nice ones that way too.  
 

15 hours ago, bsem said:

Great seeing this thread and solution. I picked up my FRFR-108 today at lunch and just reading this at work. I quickly went and purchased a 10' TRS cable just now. I excpect now that I should have a good first impression/experience of the setup when I try this evening.

14 hours ago, bklicky2 said:

I have the HR 12 which is way better than the QSC that I started with. I too like the sound better through my monitors and headphones although it is not "bad". I am gonna try the balanced cable and see if this does the trick. Thanks guys

 

I'm glad my follies were able to help you guys out.  The correct cable makes all the difference.  I was literally about to send both my Pod GO and HR108 back to Sweetwater.

One other important thing on that HR 108.  If you are playing in your house be sure and get the speaker off the ground a little bit. Or at the very least angle it facing up.  This is already a very bassy/boomy speaker and if it's just sitting on the floor it accentuates that.
 

5 minutes ago, roscoe5 said:

Not sure how much help I'll be, but I'll give it a go.

 

I don't have a Katana, but just read about it a bit and checked out some images.  It looks like it is engineered for other external modelers (such as Helix) and should be plug and play just using the Power Amp in.  I wouldn't personally try to mess with 4CM, probably not worth the effort and cables.

 

https://www.boss.info/us/products/katana-50_mk2/

 

Amplify Your External Gear
The Katana-50 MkII rocks as a standalone amp, but it also excels as a powered cabinet for a favorite preamp, modeler, or multi-effects unit. Connecting to the rear-panel Power Amp In jack bypasses Katana MkII's preamp and effects, letting you tap straight into the Tube Logic power section, complete with grab-and-go Power Control. And with BOSS Tone Studio, the input can be easily optimized for your particular gear with a high-pass filter and adjustable gain.

 

So with other modeling amplifiers I have with similar logic of plugging into power amp in or effects return to bypass the internal modeling (Line 6 Spider Valve MKii and Positive Grid Bias Head), I just use Helix full amp models (not just preamps), turn the cabs off on the Helix presets,  take a 1/4" cable from Helix left/mono out to the amp's power amp in/effects return and done.  Great sound usually.  

 

I don't know anything about the Katana's Tube Logic Power section tech and the coloring/effect that may have.  But generally, the less coloring by the amp, the better/controllable/predictable the results with a modeler.

 

Maybe someone with a Katana will chime in.  They do look like cool amps.

 

 

Thank you for your reply! The method you describe (1/4 cable from mono to Katana preamp in) is what I have been using and the results are pretty good. I prefer it over the Headrush frfr so far, but that is probably due to my room acoustics and the extreme booming base from the HR.

The Katana amp itself is amazing. I'm getting better tone out of that than the GO but that's probably/hopefully because I'm still such a noob to the device.

I haven't tried using Tone Studio to tweak the pre amp in but that sounds promising.

Dumb question, but what is the difference between "full amp model" and "pre amp model plus cab"?  That sounds like the same thing to me.

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

Based on this thread.... he's actually using POD GO, not a Helix. He came to this forum because the other one was really quiet. Can't say I blame him :) 

https://line6.com/support/topic/56650-sound-quality-frfr-vs-headphones/

 

 

Simple test..... 

1. Make sure your global EQ on the POD GO is OFF.... 
2. When going to your FRFR, use the normal outputs, NOT the amp out.
3. Start with an empty preset... completely empty.
4. Add a Fender Deluxe Vibrato Channel (probably labelled "US Deluxe VIB") amp and default cab for that amp
5. Add a spring reverb

If that doesn't sound like a classic clean Fender tone, something is wrong in your setup, or with the unit! 

Done...not too bad.  The cab is disabled because I'm plugged into the Power Amp In of my Boss Katana 100 MKii (which acts as the cab).  I used the '63 Spring Reverb.  Everything default.

Not terrible but honestly not as bright/crisp as my Fender Blues Junior tube amp.  My highs were a little better here but still sounded a bit choppy or muddled compared the Blues Jr.  I would think this simulation could at least match a Blues Junior (if not blow it out of the water).

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

 

Also, what Helix configuration? Amp/Cab/IR?

It's actually a Pod GO but according to the rep at Line 6 it's the same engine and tone database as Helix so should be similar enough for recommendations from Helix users.

See my attached pics.  I have been experimenting with two options with similar results.  These settings are for the Power Amp In to the Boss Katana 100 Mkii. Cab settings disabled since the Katana is the cab in this case.  (My other option is HeadRush 108 frfr which is already so boomy/bass-heavy that I seem to be getting closer with the Katana.  In the case of the HR108 the cab is obviously enabled.

I'm very new at this so keep that in mind.  It looks weird to me having the effects after the amp but that's what I've seen people doing in these presets I've downloaded to use as examples.  I"m using this tone for a particularly reverb heavy song (Riviera Paradise).  If the highs would ring clear and sustain I would be happy with it for this song.

 

1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

You might get more relevant info if you describe your setup (speakers, guitar, pickups, etc.)

Good point...thanks...

Speakers, have two options and have tried both with very similar results: 1.) HeadRush 108,   2.) Boss Katana 100 Mkii into the Pre Amp In.

The sound, including highs is slightly better through the Katana.  The HeadRush is very boomy even lifted off the floor.  The acoustics of the small room I'm testing this in certainly play a part but I'm not in love with the HeadRush.  Although backing tracks sound like a full band playing in my house which is pretty cool.

Guitar:  Early 2000s MIM Strat with custom made Fender 1968 replica pickups (made by JM Rolph).   Note that these are staggered pole pickups with lower poles and B and E string.  Possibly part of the problem but doesn't seem to be a problem on other amps.  Maybe the Pod GO is just super sensitive to pickup height. Which would be weird.

 

2 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Are you sure it's the patch and not your pickups? What are you using?

I know that part of it is my pick ups.  I have custom '68 Fender pickups with staggered poles (stratocaster).  The poles are lower on the B and E string for sure.  I have some new pickups coming tomorrow and I'm going to see how those sound.  Maybe the Pod Go is super sensitive to the pickup height.

However, that said, I have a hard time blaming the pickups.  I'm used to playing through a modded Fender Blues Junior and the highs are crystal clear and ringing out with plenty of sustain.  The high notes also sound good on my Boss Katana.

Trying to get that nice classic clean Fender tone dialed in and all is well except for the highs.  I can get great sounds other than the fact that anything midway up the neck or higher played on the B and high E string sounds like it's being played under water or in a closet with the door closed in another room.  I've tried various EQ and parametric EQ and global EQ adjustments and nothing seems to work. 

Any suggestions for getting bright, crisp highs?  This only seems to be a problem for the clean sound.  Anything with the moderate gain or distortion rings plenty clear on the high notes.
 

57 minutes ago, roscoe5 said:

I always had a hard time with the PA style speakers with horn separate and above the woofer.  I think being away from the speaker a certain distance to allow convergence of the HF and LF driver helps.   They can sound worse the closer you get to them.  The HF drivers/horns can be harsh too.  So maybe with what you have now, I would recommend you put some distance between you and the Headrush 108 if you haven't already tried it.

 

I don't know much about the Pod Go, but Helix has a nice global EQ that can help even things out with different speaker types.

 

I tried the Headrush 12" in Guitar Center and a Line 6 Powercab and found a huge difference.  I believe the design and the wood cabinet of the Powercab certainly helped, but really I believe the coaxial design of the HF driver in the center of LF helps most of all.  I have a PC 112+, but really just use FRFR 90% of the time.  So a PC 112 plain could fit your needs.  Not sure how you feel about used, but they are hitting the used market nowadays for around $400.  Still not quite as low as the Headrush but worth it if you can swing it IMO.

Thanks for the input.  The Pod GO also has the Global EQ.  I adjusted it and that did help but still not great.  I think there is something to what you said about being so close to the speaker.  I'm essentially playing in my home office right now. So like really close to the HR.

I also have tried the GO into the Power Amp In of my Boss Katana 100 MKii. I actually like that better so far but still not having much luck getting the highs to sound pristine like they do through the headphones.
 

It looks like a few other people have done this with good results.  Any tips for how to get the most out of running into Boss Katana Mkii?  It looks like there are a few different approaches.

ben

1 hour ago, grdGo33 said:

 

Also just because that doesn't make much sense to me, if you use that same cable to connect your guitar to the Go, does it change anything to the sound?

 

Also what was your Global Settings Main Out setting?  Line or instrument?  I'm now thinking that if you had it to instrument and the was still able to amplify the very low signal, that could have very well have killed your sound quality; I don't think the FRFR is designed for instrument level signals.  And maybe with balanced the Go automatically switch to line level? 

 

Did the volume output change much between both cables?  That or a bad cable would be logical explanations of why it sounded so much worse than balanced...  Otherwise; really really surprised going balanced would make such drastic difference!   o.0   But if you had it set to 'instrument' and tried again with 'line', it really should sound the same, just make sure you lower your FRFR volume before switching!  (could be super loud after changing!)

When I was using the wrong cable I did have my "Main Out" set to Line.  The cable really makes all the difference.  There are a couple of short but informative YouTube videos on the differences between an instrument cable and a balance/shielded cable.  

The volume output didn't change drastically, it just got more consistent when changing between presets.  With the old cable the volume seemed all over the place.  

Just out of curiosity, what kind of speakers do you like for the Pod Go (or whatever device you use)?  Are you referring to studio monitors or just other powered speakers that aren't "frfr"?

3 hours ago, voxman55 said:

 

Once (hopefully) I can get back to gigging I was thinking of buying a powered speaker and the HR108 looks a strong contender both as backline or, where I can go into the PA, as a monitor.  Out of interest, is the HR108 loud and clear enough for gigging as a backline with a heavy handed drummer?  

Check out the reviews on Sweetwater and also I believe I saw some posts on this speaker in the Helix forum.  I've only played it in the house so far but I had it maybe on "3" with  my Pod GO halfway up and it was very loud and full.  I had a backing track playing through YouTube and it sounded like a full band was in the house.  

All of the comments/reviews I've seen on the subject indicate that the HR108 is more than sufficient to gig with and accommodate a loud drummer, etc.  If there's any question you could just move up to the next speaker size.

It was just a 10 foot cable but it turns out there is a huge difference in sound quality and also really a huge difference between an instrument cable and a balanced/shielded cable.  Actually I'm lucky I didn't damage the speaker from what I've read.  

The sound quality is now BETTER out of the frfr speaker than the headphones (even though it's just a single speaker and therefore not stereo).  Great "problem" to have!

I can't believe I was going to send this thing back...