Mavril

Don't use Monkey, I've had nothing but dramas with it since the last update.

See what happens if you go directly to the download section of the support site, select your hardware, select the application and select your OS. see what is there (or not) and then update your ticket.

I had a link sent to me by Line 6 for a download that worked after a similar monkey issue for a different OS and FW.

That's the idea CW, but the ethernet cable flexibility is crucial as has been commented. There are only a couple of wholesalers around me and a bunch of online sellers. If anyone has feedback on a brand or model of cable that has proved to be good, I'll hunt it down online and then order the neutrik shells to fit up. Also helps cusotmise length which I do with the rest of my leads.

My guess from the OP is that it is related to the jack connection and switch. considering the XPS does not turn it on there maybe an issue with the continuity of the switch action at the body of the jack connector.

This is the same point at which the battery switch is for the internal pack. if you take the batteries out and are able to run the guitar through a pod unit by VDI cable (ethernet) you may be able to check if there is further damage to the guitar as it bypasses this jack connector.

I contacted Line 6 about schematic resources for the unit but they were unwilling to supply the info. They directed me to a yamaha support centre on the opposite side of the country (I'm in Australia). Not sure whether Yamaha are handling support in Italy as well.

FYI, I found the fault in the end and it appears to be a little bit common with the old packs.

It is an issue with the design of the 6 battery pack lugs contacting the conductive paint in the cavity. By looking at the area it seemed to be very unlikely but a few tests and it proved to be the case. Unsure why the battery compartment needs to be Faraday caged but it doesn't need to be conductive. I will be building the cavity up with a silicone or something that will insulate and hold the pack more securely (currently rattles a little).

Also wondering if anyone knows of a good source of flexible, shielded Ethernet cable in Australia? Us based suppliers cost too much in shipping

Thanks again for VDI recommendation.

Ooh and I should ask you CW if you use nickel or phosphor bronze strings? what did the 700 acoustic come with standard?

Thanks for the reply Charile_Watt,

I'll follow the switch path and the supply path but it sounds more like a capacitor is not loading the supply rail correctly (which is about right for the age of an electrolytic).

As for the blown diode, that sounds like a horrible design! Has anyone had any joy correcting this with a suitable protection diode?

Was hoping to get a little bit of a lesson learned from you guys that have played, before I jump into this thing and snoop around.

I'll look into the rechargeable thing with eneloops I guess. Although I may just build myself a VDI cable for the road... with a 1/4 inch backup. does anyone have the spec/ pinouts for what VDI requires? Which pairs of the 8 are used?

oh and can you retrofit a current battery pack to this device without damaging the supply? That would be way better than becoming a AA distributor.

Hi,

i may be a little late to the Variax party but I was finally convinced by the tuning capabilities to dive in and pick up a well looked after Accoustic 700.

I know these are obsolete products now and i've had a bit of a blow off from Line 6 saying that I can send it across the country to be looked at and maybe it could be fixed...

Anywho, My acoustic did not work straight out of the packaging and I thought I'd been dudded by the seller. I checked it out through the 1/4 inch battery powered option and I got nada... no LEDs and no sound.

I then checked it via the RJ45 port through my xt live... surprise surprise it came to life. i gave it a good work out and it didn't miss a beat.

Went back to the battery and nothing...

I measured the voltage to the board, changed batteries and thought that that power cct must be knackered...

Left for a business trip and returned a week later, thought I'd give it one more crack and it has now come to life! except that it sounds like a dying battery, all crackly on strong plucking. This isn't there through the VDI. I don't run two supplies concurrently after reading about it on here.

What I am looking for is any service tips, schematics on this instrument in order to make sure i get a decent life out of this unit. i stumbled on a few threads from the archives which relates to power but hte links are all broken and hard to search.

Is there anyone here that still dabbles with my model instrument?

I'm capable with schematics and with an iron if necessary.

Hey cruisinon,

There are two sections to the box, one vented area on the back where the fan resides with the power supply and the back on the amp and mixer interface. The other section is the sealed resonant chamber where the driver lives. Take the driver out by removing the screen first and have a look at the cladding and the top hat wiring. You'll see how close that wire is to the driver as it moves back and forth. On mine it was close enough to warrant taping to the back of the top hat stand recess. Once I did this and put the thing back together, no more buzz. Whether the vibration was here or elsewhere I am not 100% but I I can repeat the process so I'm happy with the fix. You might be able to get to it from the blank cover on the side two but it is too tight for my hands

Yeah tudscamp is dead on with the above, you can't just use any old fan in these things, they are micro controller speed operated. I saw the units that came out of my L2 pair and I was equally surprised as the tech that they failed the way some of us experienced. The replacement is certainly not superior in specs... except to say that it doesn't sound like a circular saw reenacting a scene from Aliens.

If you attempt to replace with a cpu fan or the like, you will probably be disappointed with the vibration sound from it. Worth more hassle trying to find a compatible fan when the techs at Line 6 already did the QA on this one.

Just for another result - my L2ts returned with a vibration sound imediately after having the fan swap out performed. I was ready to lose my cool pretty hard and realised it was a slightly different sound than the first. Had me and my friendly tech stumped for a while until he opened the unit another way and noticed the little cable that attaches to the stand switch seems to be exactly routed to just brush the cone of the speaker. after removing a litle of the cladding it was plain to see that there was too much slack on this cable. I taped the cable back to the stand top hat and haven't heard the sound since.

Just another weird rattling sound removed from these speakers. They sound so much better without that buzz :)

Yeah sorry, I thought it would get a little more commercial than required.

Basis of the idea is that there are so many hard luck stories about why you miss out on the gig and why you miss an opportunity that someone else grabs in this industry that it would be nice to be part of a story where the opposite happens. Where everything that could go wrong does and then you have invested in a product backed by a company who is there with you to deal with the issue however you need it and get you to the show without unecessary stress.

I'm not looking for a big break, quite the opposite, but somebody here might need it.

Nevertheless, my down time is limited and precious to me which means that I have an expectation that if I look after the gear I bought, then the gear (and the OEM) will look after me with the support I require, (at a cost if need be). If my brother's wedding is a week away and my M20d starts doing what yours did, I'd want to be able to look at the options above in order to achieve the return on investment when it counts, not when it is convenient for the OEM  (especially during warranty period).

It might be old fashioned but that sort of service builds brand loyalty and that spreads like wildfire nowadays through social media.

Apologies for the delay in getting back Arne, Im out of town.

I'll give it another soak test when I'm back home. The SD card is not a slow card, I purchased it specifically for the purpose (not to say that it can't be faulty). Is there a posibility that the SD card could cause this sort of problem?

I would have thought that th SD would only interact with the system when armed to record, I was only routing my stereo input through to the L3ms, no recording.

I have been using the gear to de stress when I get back from a work roster away, the last thing I'm looking forward to is fault finding the thing that is supposed to put me in a good mood :)

In response to reman parts exchange I say yep. When your livelihood is on the line you need confidence in your manufacturer to keep you working after committing to their product.

In my business the process works where secondhand remanufactured (to a known quality) is available when repair turnarounds are excessive. The units have a known value and you purchase them at that known price. Once you provide your faulty unit, the transaction will be credited the exchange value straight up. Initial credit is ~ full price of unit, credit is difference to bring a shell to agreed working condition.

Another option is to provide hotswap stock. A working unit is exchanged for a faulty unit under warranty claim with an authorisation for an agreed value. Once Root Cause Analysis is performed, credit is applied to the value warrantable. Depending on the terms of Warranty this could be the entire amount or a percentage or an amoutn equal to the warrantable period left.

If the fault is not warantable the repair costs to turn around to seed stock is charged to the customer from the credit authorised.

Might sound a little complicated but this sort of service wins business hand over foot in time critical industries. Considering how cut throat entertainment industry is, its amazing it is not more widely represented.

Thanks for the reply SiWatts69.

I've had a good look at the connections and I'm not sure it's the issue. If there was a physical connection issue then why would it be an issue only after a number of months and not straight away? Also, I would assume that if I have the problem, turn it off an then turn it back on, it should still be there. If it is a contact corrosion thing, same deal (or working the connection should produce crackle and restored sound), definitely not a coordinated block at once?

I noticed also that a few channels that I have muted (mics) were showing as muted in the icon but were not muted in perform menu and the screen was unresponsive to unmuting them. When I went to patch the inputs to another channel the system was extremely slow to respond (in the region of 20 sec). This is software glitchy by my reckoning and cycling power for a fourth time appears to have stabilised it for now.

I will be monitoring this and am feeling gun shy about using it until I can pin point the problem. I guess the only thing that is relatively recent in this machine is a CF card, Samsung 64GB SDXC type 10 unit. Its high speed and shouldn't be affecting the unit like this even if it is a bad egg. It has been working fine for more than a couple of weeks with this memory card.

Any other occurences spring to mind?

HI,

I thought I read about this issue before in this forum but I can't seem to find the topic below.

I have an M20 (+ L2m, L3m and L3s) and specific inputs are currently dropping out.

In my practice room pysical mic inputs 7&8 (which take electronic drums stereo) will drop out after about 5-10min. There is not drop in output from the drum module but there is no input level coming in.

Examining further I can see the channel strip inputs for 1,2,7,8 all greyed out like there in no connector in them... when there physically is.

If I plug into another pair of channels, they work fine. If I cycle power on teh unit the channels come back... for a while.

WTF is going on with this thing? did this sort of thing happen before or was it my imagination? Why that block of channels?

After the dramas with my L2ms (which I have only just had returned from the fan replacement - and haven't tested properly yet) I am afraid to take this out in public until my faith in the reliability is restored.

Mavril

sorry I didn't see this earlier LnS, you got the right of it in the end. Whenever there is a power supply failure in an electronic device, all components are subjected to a level of stress generally in teh form of current or heat.

The best kinds of faults are consistent but we know that electronics are not that simple. Plenty of discrete components like capacitors and ptcs have teh ability to display the kinds of fault you describe when on the slow death. Factors include length of time running, ambient temperature, humidity, voltage sag, physical orientation etc...

When you have a PSU go (especially a switch mode) replace it all even if it is cheaper to replace the burnt components. This will save any other previously undamaged boards from the rapid ageing/ damage that can occur by a component becoming out of tolerance.

Semiconductors are worse when affected by excess heat, damaging time ccts and even junction voltage.

Glad you have a working unit now, keep them out of the cold/wet (same as kids)  :)

Hi mncanuck,

Not sure why noone has commented here but from those recordings posted I can tell you that my l2ms don't sound like that. I'm sure that your phone is not a great reference point (the same as people posting you tube clips for critical listening off their phone).

Not sure what is going on with your sound between the two monitor types but it sounds extreme for the differences between my models. If that is the tone difference between  direct input from your keyboard into the xlr input on either speaker I'm a bit shocked. If there is no mixer stage on either device and they both have the same dsp settings I think you may have found some bad eggs.

My l2 and l3s sound different as the l3 has a low mids driver to present more low end punch, but that doesn't mean the l2s are aenemic, they just sound like a 10" on their own. I'm pretty sure there is an owner using this speaker for bass guitar jams direct. that should give you an idea of what it can do.

Mav

I wish I could hold the faith that this is a batch issue and that there are units out there that are immune to the resonant frequency fan grind.

However I am more confident that the issue is more a design problem than a mere QA problem. If the fan vibrates against a piece of metal at one boxes resonant frequency I'm sure it will develop the same problem at another boxes resonant frequency (all things being equal). I am also assuming the same fan is in all speakers, mounted against a heatsink or metallic backing and controlled by the same smarts.

Like another contributer to this discussion, I would prefer minimal moving parts inside the unit (except for the cone itself) if the amp can stay cool enough. From my experience with fans (and I have serviced a number of musical electronics in a previous incarnation) they draw more dust than you would expect normally, eventually fail their bearings, can short out a power supply and can leave a device vulnerable when not working.

I would be prepared to suffer a heavier speaker if that would get a heatsink big enough to do the job and porting that used driver air displacement to move heat away from the amp.

Hi Line 6,

It's been a few more weeks since the last update we had from you and I'd like to know if there is any news?

As you can understand as each week passes my return on investment is reducing. I understand that you may not have a quick solution to this issue but I am beginning to lose patience especially as my investment is sitting unusable.

I'd prefer not to return my l2ms but I need to look at the reality of the situation:

continue to run my system subpar without the l2ms

lose money hiring or purchasing supplement gear while this is sorted out

or cut my losses and return the offending gear.

Here's hoping that you can deliver some good news so I don't have to make this difficult decision.

Very well put Tudscamp,

We all spent our hard earned cash on a device/system we believed was going to serve us best through our professional and other endeavours. There is a problem with this model, it is well documented in this forum as being more than a trivial colouration of sound. A speedy and satisfactory resolution is what we are asking of Line 6 in return for our faith in your product.

ArneLine6, just so we're clear, my L2ms are not shining an annoying blue LED light in my audiences eyes or a gaudy yellow colour or weighing more than I care to lift, they are not able to reproduce sound to a sufficiently high quality without being affected by this buzzing crackling sound. As a powered speaker, they are failing their core role.

I hope your comments are being taken out of context but my opinion is that a speaker that introduces noise of this nature into the media passing through it, fails at its purpose.

Looking forward to your reply.

Mav

HI Masterzone,

I have used the L3m as a bass guitar monitor.

Remembering that the stagesource speakers are PA speakers at heart that have a few DSP presets, the 't's have a mixer as well.

I don't believe that it will replace your bass guitar rig ALONE. I run an old PodXt Live Bass into it and it takes the modelled output from the Pod and outputs through the L3x just as if it were your standard FOH monitors (probably better than your standard FOH).

Plugging into an L3t directly with your Bass guitar will sound exactly like your Bass Guitar (like you DI the thing before the Bass Amp) Depending on your Bass, some people think this is fine, you have the mixer to fiddle with your sound a little but you will not have ny of the colour of your favourite valve or solid state bass amp.

For bigger gigs I will use the L3s under and give the rest of the band a bit of brown note briliance but it is mostly overkill unless you're playing outdoors (then it shines). If you're serious about Bass, there are a few modelling pieces of gear that will work fantastically with the Stagesource kit (excepting the L2).

I have also used a traditional solid state bass amp with a DI/send to the L3m for extra coverage. There are a number of ways you can use the Stagesource kit for Bass, Keys, Electric Guitar, Acoustic guitar, Vocals... anything you get your hands on. Just dont expect it to go head to head with all of your favourite vintage amps and knock them all out of the park.

It is my favourite purchase as far as sound reinforcement, period.

DS, I first noticed the noise while I was practicing my chops at low volume on electronic drums :)

being drums it was hard to pin point the source of the noise so I setup a loop on a keyboard to cycle through the lowest octave and found the noise was repeatable at a low mid frequency, right in that woofy booming region 160-250Hz. I'm especially protective of this range as a bass player and hate any resonance, overloading preferring a piano like tight response.

I then checked the signal path with a tone generator (hand held) and found the resonant frequency.

To my ears it reminds me of a damaged diaphragm in the way that a low frequency breaks up in the horn spectrum but the horn is fine at any other frequency. I then thought that maybe the active crossover might be playing a part, knowing that the l3 has a switchable filter, maybe there was some smarts that were playing up.

Seeing AL6 response here it should have been easier for me to isolate the problem and detail a better fault report in the first place as I could and can now hear the fan kicking in with the noise. Still where I hav done my testing I am also trying to stop my house from sympathetic resonance in this spectrum so I admit I didn't isolate as well as I could have with some time on a stage.

Acoustic guitar is normally a little empty here with phosphor bronze strings but a nylon string should get it to resonate if it is going to. else run a synth bass tune through at about 80dB and you should be able to notice it if you have a problem.

I can just start to hear it in my second one now.

I don't have experience with the brand you mentioned but I can put to you that the StageSource gear has presets that will spread a grin across your guitar playing face.

If you want a true representation of your acoustic guitar use the L3t on Reference (this will give you a very near studio replication of your instrument)

If you are at a gig with lots of background noise you may find the acoustic dsp more to your liking (it will reduce common resonant frequencies making it more pleasant for acoustic guitar and less feedback-y)

there is a smile setting which boosts treble and bass for low volume- which I never use

If you look at the other posts on L2m there are a few units out there with a fan rattle issue currently so maybe hold off until they sort it out. I also recomend the L3(m/t) for the frequency response and field pattern. It sounds great from a wide listening angle - something traditional guitar amps are very poor at (normally one person in the audience gets great sound at high volume while the rest of the crowd gets mud).

FYI I know you ordered the 6U unit but I thought there might be community interest in other options also. I went away from conventional rack storage and use a pelican case to transport my m20d and the accompanying snake. considering the unique shape of the unit I like the idea that the snake is on the bottom of the case with a couple of rectangular rings cut to fit the mixer on top. It works a treat for transport and I am more confident with this arrangement than any previous mixer setup.

to setup I use an old CRT tv stand on wheels that I got from my grandfather (I knew his stuff would come in handy one day rest his soul) as it is almost fits the footprint of the mixer exactly. the stand is height adjustable lightweight and on castors with a p-clip for the snake weight strain relief.

So happy with how quick this sets up and how lightweight and small the whole thing packs down to, can't imagine going back...