ice9mike

psarkissian has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?".

As it stands, we have yet to find a single root cause for this phenomenon. Due to a variety of reasons, we were unfortunately forced to deprioritize our research into this issue. We will report any pertinent findings at a later date. We encourage anyone experiencing trouble with their Line 6 gear to reach our support team at www.Line6.com/support/tickets.

Here's the problem Tony, the support ticket method of fixing this issue has not worked for anyone on this thread. My JTV-89F was sent in twice to headquarters with no resolution (I finally got rid of it).

For anyone reading this thread. My advice, play the guitar before you buy it if possible. Listen carefully, if there is any sign of plink or weird noises, send it back. Don't screw around with the support ticket, you won't get it fixed that way. What you will get is a 4-6 week turnaround time for them to say "no problem found".

Very disappointing. 

I'd like to know the topologies for the Mesa mk IV models.

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Thank you x 1000. I knew there were some caps on that board. I wonder what values they are and how many decibels Line 6 is trying to lower the signal. I am working on an experiment with my JTV-69. It is working fine with no plink, but I intend to replace the pickups with graph techs to see how they affect the tone and if they add any plink. If they cause plinking, I can add different capacitor values to see if it removes the plink.

I am frustrated at the lack of progress with this issue and intend to try this little experiment to see if I can learn something. Your photos go a long way to helping me understand the issue.

My hypothesis is that many (not all) of the plink issues are due to clipping that comes from the input signal amplitude. I think lowering the amplitude before it gets to the main PCB may help or eliminate the plink.

I could be totally wrong here, but with no input from Line 6, we are forced to use our own methods to find solutions to the issue.

I need a big favor from the JTV-89F owners. I have been trying to get a picture of the adapter PCB that converts the graph tech ghost pickups to the main PCB header interface. I have searched and searched the internets without success.

Can someone with a JTV-89F please send me a picture of the adapter PCB? Please post here or DM.

I want to see if there are capacitors on this PCB and what the values are. 

I'm trying to understand how the graph tech ghost saddles from the JTV-89F compare to the LR Baggs saddles of the 69 and 59. Ghost saddles have a much higher volume output that could contribute to this issue. Adding a capacitor in parallel for each pickup will lower the overall volume.

I had my first gig with the Helix, DT25 combo, and Variax today. They all worked great together. Switching amp voicings worked perfectly through Midi commands. I will admit that setting up has been trial and error, and somewhat more involved than your average user would like it to be. But it does work and sounds fantastic.

It really helps to have a midi cable interface for the DT amps to your computer. This also you to use DT Edit and change the voicings to remove any internal preamp models. This also allows customization of class, pentode/triode, and other settings. This saves you the hassle of programming these things into separate midi commands later in your Helix. You can then change voicing with one midi command.

Again, this is more work than it should be for the average user. I don't mind it because I'm a guitar geek and enjoy this stuff, but at very least Line 6 should have some detailed instructions or a video to show everyone how to accomplish this. I'm really hoping for a firmware update soon that makes this much easier. It's got to be coming soon.

FYI, I am the ideascale creator for the Helix/DT amp integration request. It is currently ranked 25th with 212 votes. Please vote it up if you haven't already:

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/DT-amp-compatibility-for-Helix/726817-23508

Mine buzzed as expected from a standard single coil. I replaced them with DiMarzio Cruisers. Very quite now.

Thanks, I have checked full compass for the part, but I did not see it.

It would help to have the PCB part number. Can someone with a JTV89F check the PCB part number of this part?

Thanks.

Does anyone know where I can get the adapter PCB that converts the graphtech piezo wire connections to the main PCB connection? This is used on a JTV89F.

It is so simple it's crazy. From previous posts I had already purchased an m-audio midi device to upgrade the DT25.  Using DT Edit - just turn off everything in channel B (previous posts).  I have never used a midi cable in my life.  I bought one and I figured out how to do it in about 5 minutes without getting the Helix manual out.  You most likely will need the DT25 Midi guide - page 2.2.  You go to command center and program the first midi command to the desired typology.  The command is 122 then the next block in the command you put in 4,5,6 or 7 for Channel B voicing that you want.  It works great evertime.

 

I'm still learning all this stuff so if I can do anyone can.

 

I've had the Helix about 3 weeks now.  I haven't used it live yet but will very soon.  I play at a church so no stage volume and run in ear monitors and everything is through a PA.  Running a real cab and micing it is not a good option for me right now. 

 

So everything I do is coming back from the amp to the Helix (FX loop) and then will go back out of the XLR to the PA.

 

Here is what I found in a SHORT time and still learning - some amps sound great with the preamp and the DT.  Some amp models sound great with the full amp model and the DT.  To my very pleasant surprise - many of the Helix amp models sound fantastic without the DT as well.  So I envision running the DT with the FX loop for some songs in a particular set - while bypassing the DT all together and running just direct amp models from the Helix for some songs in a set. 

 

FYI - I've had the PODHD for about 5 years - It's awesome but I'm not going back either.

Just a clarification. CC#122 controls the DT amp voicing which includes topology, class A/AB, reverb, cabinet type (for direct out), etc.

I too sold my HD500 once I realized how easy it was to implement the voicing selection in my Helix presets. It still would be very nice to have only one cable and automatic DT amp control. Hopefully we still get this functionality in the next firmware.

This thread is huge, so let me reiterate something. I have the plink on my 6th string. I swapped the piezo connectors at the mother board. Then, the 6th string was normal and the plink moved to the 5th. So, same string, same setup, pick and attack and even same piezo. I made the problem move based on the input to the board. That's not mechanical. There is something different on the processing through the 6th string input.

Your observation was the first thing I tried when I had this problem on my 89F. The issue is not mechanical, or setup. It is PCB, or firmware related. No one at line 6 has confirmed this test or the fact that the plink is even an issue. I'm still not sure why that is.

Can you imagine what would happen if the Helix introduced a similar issue? It would be fixed in a New York minute because the level of support there is fantastic. For JTV's we get the run-around, no solutions, no firmware updates, and no enhancements.

Thanks, I was being facetious, I could tell you care  ;) .

 

Fingers crossed, I guess, but so far so good.

I had JJ's in my DT25 for about 6 months before they blew and took one of the fuses with them. They sound great, but I don't think they work reliably in these amps. My suggestion is to keep a set of EH's on hand just in case.

Also, if you have a problem with the amp hopefully there is an authorized Line 6 service center near by. We have two in Portland, Or which are both excellent.

 

Quote from another forum:

 

Quote

 

 

 

Hey U-O-D

 

I turned the volume level of all of the strings down to to 33 % in Workbench HD...didn't make a difference...

 

(It looks like the Workbench string volume doesn't adjust the gain of the first Variax Gain Stage where the initial overload may occur...)

 

 

What I am trying to do with the Subsonic filter is reduce the low-band noise right after the piezos which might reduce the overload to the first Variax Gain Stage.

 

The addition of an attenuator for each string after the subsonic filter might help further.

 

Stay Tuned :)

 

Seeya

 

Joe

 

This thread is what I have been waiting for. Thanks for starting it. Great pictures too. I have been contemplating the move to Graphtechs for my JTV-69 as well. Could you filter the low band out with a low cut filter/eq in the Helix or other pedal? That should at least tell you what the crossover point and Q value need to be.

So I did the procedure ice9mike did, and it really did improve the on-board exp pedal. It's much more smooth and seems to glide now. There was some sort of lubricant/oil on the long bolt that holds everything together. The bolt turns inside a stationary nut while in operation. But none of the perpendicular surfaces that make contact and move against each other had any sort of lubricant at all. I used chapstick, the same thing I use on my Edge tremolo.

I am glad it worked for you too. I think lubrication to those surfaces is critical and I don't understand why Line 6 is shipping units without it. Pedal feel is one of those things that doesn't seem important till it becomes unpleasant. It's a first world problem to be sure, but we can complain about these issues when we pay $1500.

I will definitely have to try out the expression pedal a little more to be able to tell you my thoughts on it. I'll tell you guys this though, this throng blew me away last night. It's amazing!

If you want smooth actuation you will have to open the bottom of the Helix, disassemble the pedal from the rest of the board and lubricate all the parts and surfaces that move. This made a world of difference for me and got rid of the annoying squeaking I had. I would caution that taking the pedal apart is best left to those that are mechanically inclined. Otherwise I'm sure a service center can do it for you easily.

Digital Igloo, Have you changed you assembly instructions to add lube to this area during manufacturing? I really recommend Line 6 implement this. I could write an idealscale but it's more of a quality problem than a feature request. 

I use this case from Ultimate Support. It's originally for a keyboard, but fits the Helix perfectly. The front pockets have plenty of room for cables.

http://www.ultimatesupport.com/products/instrument-cases-and-bags/keyboard-bags/uss1-25-37c-series-one-soft-case-for-25-to-37-note-keyboard.html

I will give it a try with my Android devices. I know Samsung usually does an excellent job with USB complaint audio as I have had several DACs work with my Galaxy phones.

Does the Helix USB work with android OS?

I used a set of PN-8102-R0 saddles which fit my JTV-69 with some modification (the intonation screws were at a weird angle and had too large of heads - I had to drill out the screw holes in the back of the bridge).

 

However, except for the volume gain, I don't find that it radically improves the sound. Any change is so subtle that after matching the volumes with my other unmodded JTV-69, I hear a tiny difference comparing recorded samples one right after another, but couldn't tell which one was playing if you only played me one.

 

My reason for switching was string breakage. I broke a string at the saddle on my Strat just before a solo at my very first public gig when I was 19, and ever since then have used String Savers on every guitar I've owned.

I was looking into ghost saddles as well for the string breakage reason. I just broke an "A" string on my JTV69 and when looking at the LR Baggs saddles noticed that the strings have worn grooves into them that match the string windings. Not ideal.

PN-8102-R0 seems to be the Tele version of the saddles. Do you have any pictures of your install? Did you notice any tuning stability improvements?

Thanks.

131 votes is pretty good and I know Digital Igloo has stated that they are aiming to release a DT integration for the first major Helix firmware upgrade. I have no idea when that will happen, but they are working on it. So far we have seen several minor firmware updates.

Till then, there are several threads on setting up the helix MIDI commands to do the switching for the DT settings. I have implemented these and it works very well. I think everyone is still trying to figure out how to make the Helix sound best with the DT amps.

For me, I use the Helix pre-amps and turn off the DT pre-amp. There are many other MIDI commands you can use to dial in the tone. You can specify cab, mic, reverb, presence, etc of the DT amp all from MIDI commands. It's quite flexible.

Right now I am trying to figure out how best to utilize the Helix cabs and IRs instead of the DT cabs.

Overall the Helix does sound better than the HD500 I had been using. I am having a great time figuring it all out.

I too had a squeaky pedal on my helix (not my ankle). It was actually very loud and annoying. The solution was to remove the bottom cover, completely remove the expression pedal, and lube up the squeaky parts. There are two metal brackets attached to the pedal that must be removed before the whole thing can come out of the unit. Remove the large screw, washers, and plastic bushings. Lube the inner plastic bushings paying close attention to the flange surfaces and re-assemble the pedal in reverse order.

The pedal is smoother and completely quiet now. Much improved.

If you are mechanically inclined, this procedure is not hard, but I would caution anyone who is not handy with a wrench. This is something that your local service center could fix easily and it only takes about 15 minutes.

I have dealt with similar issues in my line of work.

I would suggest Line 6 look at their manufacturing procedures and add the lubrication of the plastic bushings to the assembly instructions. These bushings are supposed to facilitate the smooth quiet actuation of the pedal, but they are binding and causing squeaking instead.

An alternative solution would be to make these bushings out of a self lubricating plastic like Delrin. They are currently PC/ABS most likely.

I found the preamps were all over the map in terms of volume but the full amps were fairly close.  I like the full amps with no cab best.  In fact losing the Helix modeled power section takes away the very character of the amp you are modeling, even when running through the DT.

 

You can play around with the master levels but I try to keep the Helix above 50%, even if I have to lower the DT.  Line 6 recommends the Helix be up as high as possible to get the best signal to noise ratios.  When possible I will keep the Helix maxed out and adjust on the DT.  Contrary to some thoughts, raising the DT master level does not increase the "tubey"-ness...

Thanks for the tips. I learned a lot by downloading your set. I noticed that the full amp only with no cab tends to have a lot of high frequency fizz. I put a high/low cut after the amp block to cut off these frequencies above 9k. That helps a bunch.

The full amps do sound more articulate and cut through a mix much better in my opinion. I can't write off the pre-amps just yet; still experimenting. Pre-amps do vary volume more. Some of this can be adjusted in the channel and master volume settings.

My next step is to go buy Glenn's patches and experiment with those through my DT25.

Turned them off by midi command from the Helix.  It does not change the loaded models so when Helix is disconnected you can still use it standalone.

I did a lot of experimentation and learning this weekend on using the DT25 with my new Helix. I found the full amps to be much louder than the preamps. What are you running your Helix Volume knob at? I'm at about 50% with full amps.

That makes sense. Presence is a DT25 setting you can set via MIDI CC 21 (for channel A). It's a little cumbersome, but that seems to do the trick.

I've been having a blast getting my Helix to work with the DT. I have some really good tones that I am constructing based on my HD500 tones.

I have noticed that the preamp settings for several amps are missing the "Presence" control and the Vox amps are missing the "Cut" setting. Is this an oversight or on purpose?

If it's on purpose, why were they left off? Presence is a vital setting on most amps. It may modify the negative feedback loop or eq settings. I'm just trying to understand the implementation strategy for this setting.

Thanks.