Deneteus

You don't need to run the global reset before updating the firmware (unless you failed to do it after your last firmware update in which case it probably is not a bad idea). I can see why if you just blew away all your old presets and did not load any new ones you might not see any rebuild messages. It may not need to rebuild anything if all that is loaded are the new factory presets and templates. Don't know for sure as I loaded up all my old presets.

I got into a habit of just playing with it stock for a while before adding any new presets just to test it. It's just a habit from working with the GT/GNX/Zooms. Also I remember a few people saying they had to reset their globals again on one of the older updates. 

I didn't backup anything and just cleared globals/settings first and then restarted it, ran the firmware updater. After it restarted to be safe I reset Globals again. Worked fine 

Polka and Death Metal eh. Interesting. Sounds like my neighbors. 

I just got another telecaster. My Vibrolux is waiting to be put back together. 

Anybody remember the old L6 forums. LOL

http://line6.com/supportarchive/thread/12612/

I just need some hot raisin bread and a glass of milk. 

That psychologist will get jailed for prescribing anything....maybe you meant psychiatrist? :D

 

Let's move on guys...

 

In fact let's get back to not caring? Who remembers not caring and caring about not caring? #carefest2016

Pepperidge farm remembers.

Do you always cry this much in public? I am pretty sure I can call a psychiatrist for you to get a prescription. 

I really think the more you educate your users on a product the more likely they are to use advanced features. Not everyone that uses the Kemper or the AxeFX knows what they are doing for sure but you have to always make sure there is something there for those who want to learn more.

I'm not one of those people that fears bricking my device so I do beta updates and test features if they are relevant to my interests. As long as betas are setup behind a qualification wall you really don't have to worry too much about the public. Betas attract people that like to see change. If you want to make sure to keep out the people that don't read user's guides you just have to make sure they agree to be a tester and that they understand the rules.

Between Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and local music scenes, there is always alot of talk about Line6 products.

Houston has 5 locations. That is more than in any other city here. Texas has 50 stores. There are 3 of them that I have spent quite alot of time in. And I regularly get updates from them and Sweetwater. 

I also work for IATSE and work stage, conventions and theaters. I do backline support and I've talked to touring crews and conventions about Line6 products as well.

They are still culling ideas from Ideascale. It's just the actual management of all the posts is kind of a pain in the butt from what DI says. There's a few things from there that are going to be in the next update.

I saw that note about the update. I'll be looking forward to it.

So your a team player eh?. Then you know by that experience you need to "work" with people (not by pointing out their faults or failures so BLUNTLY, but by getting them to look at the issues in a different and better way). Thats what all good "bosses", trainers and idea makers do man. Brow beating here doesn't work well with others. I know ;). So excuse me if thats how I come across when I say the way you act, you wouldn't last long on any kind of yellow belt or black belt team, or any team for that matter. So no, your approach doesn't work as you stated, if its done in the way you are doing it. It just tends to lollipop people off. Like Silver stated, you get more with honey, than with vinegar here, or anywhere. Every one hates a squeaky wheel even if it does need and get the grease bud. No one here is against improving what we have and so these ideas are indeed welcome, but slamming us with innuendos doesn't work.  If you could just take that Helix/MUSIC passion and turn it into a more positive and friendly way, you would indeed be a force to be Reckoned with. Otherwise, your just another bright punk with an attitude.  B) 

I am pretty sure you are a non-confrontational person. And you have never been turned down for being nice. I have seen projects die because people were too busy not saying what needs to be said. Out loud. Pink Elephant in the room. A good trainer is not just a boss. Steve Jobs favorite thing to do was to confront people about things he wasn't happy with and that is how we got Apple. I've lasted pretty long on yellow and a black belt teams btw. I am pretty sure if you were trained in Generational Diversity you would know that people don't always come in happy little bundles of conformity. Not everyone takes everything said personal either. If you noticed that no one that knew what the truth was has made any personal attacks. Only the ones that wanted to feel they were injured did. People that know what they are doing don't get bent out of shape. They applied the knowledge they had. They offered an explanation and they moved on without injury to their pride knowing that if I didn't like the answer it doesn't even matter because they provided what useful knowledge they could. 

And someone that said this is not the place should know that people don't always use the tools you give them the way you expect it. That's definitely something you learn from Support. You could consider my entire post a feature request if you really wanted to.

You may very well work in QA, but it's clear to me that your concerns are pretty much unfounded in this case.  That may be due to the limits of what you're exposed to in terms of the whole product development and feature prioritization cycle from your view from QA as compared to Program Management, but it's very clear to anyone that bothers to research the release history of the updates that they clearly reflect the high volume voting on features from IdeaScale.  There's also little doubt that (in spite of the 2.0 to 2.1 rapid release to address problems with one of the effects and some minor issues), the testing has been very thorough, particularly given the scope of features in the last release.  These facts all speak to the idea that they are doing several things correctly such as prioritizing based on the most demanded user needs, releasing  products only when testing suggests they're ready, and given the product cycle time involved in these releases, realistic and manageable feature sets on each release.  All of which, by my estimation, suggests a pretty healthy development culture.

 

What you have seen in other companies has little relevance as each company has it's own dynamic when it comes to their corporate culture in product development.  And in my 30+ years of doing this sort of thing and teaching these types of disciplines to corporate america, I can say I'm pretty impressed with what Line 6 has been doing.  Rather than focusing on fears you might have encountered in various other scenarios, I'd advise looking at each company individually and track their metrics before jumping to conclusions or worrying about problems that may or my not exist at Line 6.

If what I have seen in other companies has little relevance then neither does your 30 years of teaching. Because every snowflake is different right. Well I beg to differ. A passenger on a luxury liner doesn't have to have a degree in engineering in order to identify if a boat is sinking. Companies that don't regularly poll their customers overlook alot of feedback that they won't get through support channels. Sometimes that is intentional in order to keep the Upper Management thumbscrews off of the Dev team. I was a corporate trainer as well and also trained in Six Sigma to identify problems with companies all the way down from the top to the bottom when it comes to business processes and streamlining. The metrics I track led me to my conclusion. The industry they are in isn't that big. No jumping was necessary. I am sure you can go to any Guitar Center or any other music vendor and find the same feedback about their releases if you ask the right questions. When you don't look for problems then you won't find any. I know more than a few people that swore off the Helix because of prior performance with their products. I am actually hoping that Line 6 gets to prove them wrong.

What's Hilarious to me is you discussing someone else's attitude issues.

You might not like my approach but it works.

Things are looking a bit different yes...but maybe not enough for some...

 

I do believe these changes will have a positive effect on everyone involved...

 

And for the record, Ideascale seems a little dead from the admin POV. Ideas already implemented still exist there. Most other ideas are "Under Review".

 

Again, not too convincing for me personally. But I'm keeping the faith. Both in Line 6 and in my choices. :). 

Ideascale doesn't just look dead. It looks like its where dreams go to die. 

Huh? Yes, you are, trust me... :)

 

But whatever makes you feel better.

 

Seriously, though, I actually think the vast majority of Helix users probably don't care all that much about the frequency of updates, nor is it something they spend a lot of energy worrying about. The number of people who comment here and other forums, and even on Facebook make up a pretty small percentage of the actual user base. The fact that you take time to register for a forum and comments puts you in the minority of users, and I really don't see that the majority of posters here or anywhere are unhappy...

You also aren't taking into account the people that do not like social media, or forums. I've spent enough time in Guitar Center to know that much. I'm not spending alot of time worrying about it. Just enough to put it on a bucket list to let ya'll know that we are here. 

I've got to say that I don't really see this as being the case... I frequent here, TGP, and the Facebook group, and I can't say that I've seen more than a small handful of people actually complaining, yet alone being "fed up". It seems the vast majority of people have been understanding, really.

First of all TGP doesn't like dissenting opinion when it comes to vendors. And on Facebook a thread was started about Helix problems and someone was asked to delete it after a poll was ran. That isn't counting when I was told to delete a post off Facebook in regards to a defect. So I'm not a minority by far. 

Absolutely right. This is a customer support forum. Customer. Support. Not really intended for Line 6 policy discussions although a lot of that happens here, usually politely when expressed that way in the opening.

 

I think what triggered a negative response in this case is that the OP ignored the nature of this forum in his opening statements, indicating that he only wanted to hear from Line 6 / Yamaha, or from other users who shared his opinion. The rest of us were called the peanut gallery. That's just not how a user support forum works, nor a good way for the OP to get the sort of response he wanted. His opening comments and overall tone ensured that he heard exclusively from those he offended. He didn't just express his views - he insulted regular forum users. And he knew he was doing so . Why else the 'With all due respect....' opening? The result was entirely predictable.

 

He didn't need or want any technical support. He wanted answers from Line 6 to very specific non-technical questions. This isn't the place for that. There's a Contact Us button at the bottom of every page for that.

 

You must be part of that gallery. And a reason alot of people hate going to the support forums. Even without the intro I would have gotten flack about what I was asking about because sometimes teachers pets scare people away. I've seen it happen before with the POD X3 release. And asking questions about firmware releases or updates is technical support. And 'this is not the place for that posts' are tantamount to censorship. Same as saying 'don't even post'. I don't think you noticed that my questions were answered. Even the facebook peeps don't like posting on here because of the attitude that already exists even if I hadn't said anything. 

Well Fractal is going to do their thing and Line 6 is going to do theirs... I've got to say, though, if you're comparing the development of the Helix to the AX8, I don't think you can say that Line 6 is behind Fractal as far as updates go. Fractal numbers their updates more aggressively, imo, and gives the impression that they are doing more, perhaps. They also detail out every little thing they change, like "we changed the value of this capacitor in this model". Line 6 has never given that level of detail, but I have no doubt that they do that sort of stuff. I think they just categorize that as "general optimizations and bug fixes". When I look at the number of amp models Fractal has added since the AX8 was introduced, I actually think Line 6 has added more. Fractal of course, started with more, but they're also working on a codebase that they've been using since 2011.

 

Not saying this to necessarily say one is better than the other. If anything, it's always good to have choices. But I don't agree in an objective sense that Line 6 is really behind in any way.

I only partly agree with you. I think more could have been done for the first release. 

1. The first Fractal Firmware for the AXEFX was an experiment. It wasn't until the second release when he had more coders to help that it actually took off. I'm giving the guy credit since he kickstarted this market of using IRs. 

2. They are more transparent about issues with the firmware or updates. But they aren't the only ones. Kemper releases their stuff steadily.

3. The AXE FX II fiasco where he told no one about the release and had a couple thousand back orders seemed really shady to me. Pepperidge Farm Remembers!

4. We should have at least had all of the features of the POD HD and M9 when it released. The fact someone had to make an Ideascale post about it is enough. 

5. We should have the same access to the granular settings that the AXE FX has for the advanced users. Sometimes Easy mode is not where its at. I want to be able to make new FX. 

6. I think the release of the FX8 was a joke. I saw more than a few comparisons with the Helix and alot got returned. 

7. I hope 2017 puts us closer to being at the level of functionality of the AxeFX and that we get more FX. I'm not so worried about amp models.  *yet*

8. I forgot to add that Cliff doesn't have a really high Karma rating on any of the forums. And you think I am bad. 

https://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/23686-What-do-you-guys-think-of-this-from-Cliff-of-Axe-Fx/

Just to weigh in.

 

When it comes to strictly stereo effects... I've resorted to putting a simple mono EQ at the end of the chain.

 

...just to assure myself that what's going into the amp (in this case) is solely mono.

 

It does make an audible difference as I think at that point it merges the stereo feed... but you can then adjust the reverb to taste

It sounds better for sure. I've been testing using one of those Digitech Trio+'s and I had to do that to control the level of bass coming out. I eventually split it out to a PW60. 

All entitled to an opinion but you have to admit that your tone from outset was hostile. I understand that you are frustrated bud but it's just that sometimes there are less confrontational ways of getting things from people

 

Anyways like I said for the last few weeks at least a great chunk of what you were asking has been asked, moaned about, argued over, and answered. If you did spend time on the forum you would know that the majority of users are good folk and that there is plenty of sharing and also that Line6 employees and experts spend time here too.

 

Oh and in terms of cheapening the Helix I was thinking along the lines of gimmicks a la zoom and boss like drum machines.

 

At the very least we all have that we want Helix to be a success and be the best it can be in common. The forum can only get better with more voices and experience so it would be good if you added your tuppence worth to the mix more regularly.

There are, but they are never quite as much fun. Someone has to play the villain. After reading the post about the mono reverbs and what use they are to anyone I thought might as well ask some hard hitting questions that some of us are already asking. I have actually been here the entire time for years in fact. Lurking. I had to de-register some of the stuff I bought after I sold/lost them. Luckily I own the Zooms, Boss's, Digitechs and all that to compare things to rather than having no opinion whatsoever. 

First Blood.

 

You sir are an asshat looking for a fight.

 

And this is not a retarded response either, its the truth. BTW- Thats the same as Republicans saying Trump won so DEAL WITH IT! Thats also not going to happen (which is fine by me) cause your too shocked and butthurt about  L O S I N G !

 

 

I E: adjective

 

1.

causing or suffering loss.

 

 

And, my numbers is much BIGGER than yours is. Deal with that too. So About Helix- You don't like Helix, thats fine by me. Sell it keep it IDK. Stay, go I don't care, but Im right about what you are. How can I know this? Cause Ive been one longer than you have and it takes one to know one.

Hahahaha you called the Wahhhmbulance!  Saltiest Nut of the bunch. Good Show! Ya'll are just proving my point, one post at a time.

I see. Understanding the realities of what It takes to get things right is "brown nosing".

You are assuming that I should agree that what he is actually saying is completely the case. I have seen instances where companies only QA test only what is in the user guide and they don't actually test a thousand scenarios and the rest of the time they are working on features that nobody asked for or that won't be ready for 3 quarters thereby causing intermediate releases to be pushed back.

They could be working on other products for that matter. It has happened before.

But I doubt you work in QA so you could not conceive of these things possibly being a problem. I know a single company that spent 100+ million working on features that were never released multiple times. Full complete builds. But you would not know that. You just want someone to blindly agree to make you feel better.

I am also not sure if you noticed that I voted up his post. I actually got the answers I needed from phil_m. And it says so at the top of the thread, does it not?

It sure looks like he's working towards being he most negative guy.

If he would at least acknowledge DI's post about what it takes to get these updates done, the tonality of his posts would be taken differently and he, more seriously. Nowhere in his posts does he acquiesce to the fact that the Helix is as good as it is because Line 6 takes the time to get it right and refuse to release an unstable firmware update.  Getting things right takes as long as it takes.

You see that registered products number next to my name. That gives me the ability to ask what I want. I'm not here to brown nose my way into the best buddies category that is for sure. I got the info I needed. We'll revisit the situation next quarter after I have tested the next release.  

Funny you mention that, as Samsung just bought Harman, which owns a few MI brands - AKG, Lexicon, JBL and Digitech to name a few...

 

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronics-to-acquire-harman-accelerating-growth-in-automotive-and-connected-technologies

Nice. That is just great. 

This is an interesting business model: Delay firmware updates until people sell off their Helices, then release the update, get a few people to repurchase a new Helix at full price because of the new models and features, rinse and repeat. Eventually, some people will spend $5000 on their Helix, just from selling and re-buying it. Hmmm... :P

 

 

 

Forget the effort in developing new models and features for a second—testing new models and features is a long, arduous process. And we can't just test the new stuff; the whole system needs an über-detailed, soup-to-nuts analysis, both standalone and with the editor on every supported Mac/Windows OS. Any tiny change should and does require weeks of testing.

 

That said, 2.10 isn't gonna be huge like 2.00, but it's still pretty fun.

 

TL;DR: We give people bigger but less-frequent updates because... testing.

It is a valid business model out there in the hardware world. Just look at cell phones. That is a prime example of exactly that. Especially with Android. My problem is companies in the realm tend to skate on reputation. 

I'm not forgetting the effort it takes to test at all. I work in Q/A. I don't know anyone that is wasting their time testing on versions of Windows/MAC that are no longer supported. There is a certain point where you know its good, your milestone has been reached and you stop making changes and you get a release out the door so that people know that you haven't fallen off chasing features that need more time to bake. Lord knows ya'll shouldn't be running out of beta testers any time soon.

Technically we were all beta testers when it first came out. My Helix locked up more than a few times. I also sent one back with a defect and was told it wasn't a defect when it was. So yeah I have concerns. 

I'll be looking forward to the new update. Thanks for answering with some background. 

2.10 will be released by next week at the latest...

 

In a sense, yes, Yamaha is essentially acting like a holdings company. The fact that they have their own line of musical instruments and, albeit limited, line of modeling products kind of shows that. They didn't really purchase Line 6 with the intention of integrating them into their own Yamaha-branded products, at as far as can tell and from what everyone has told me.

 

 

 

Boy, you're a real glass half-full kind of guy, aren't ya... :)

 

I mean, really, if you're that pessimistic about Line 6 and their intentions, you may be better off selling the Helix. Life is, like you said, short, and it's too short to play stuff you don't love. Personally, I love the Helix like it is right now, and would be happy with it even if it weren't ever to receive another update. But that actually isn't the case. Like I said, there's plenty of good stuff coming. 2017 will be fun...

Awesome. I figured with all the Yamaha lunchbox amps that they would try and hack together a Yamahahelix. Those amps sold fairly well to desktop/office guitarists.

What I love is when companies put out. :)  Being truthful is always pessimistic to the optimistic. You never know when a fan has cancer.