Coercer

Thanks radatats! That other poster was me, but now if anyone is struggling with the same questions in the future, they can easily find both threads.

I do have another question for you, in case you know the answer. What does the cab emulation do? It obviously has a cab, and the power amp in bypasses all emulation, so what is the point of the emulation? Are they IRs, EQ profiles, or something else? Is the speaker inside an FRFR? I haven't been able to find out this last piece of the puzzle, so if you have any info on it, I'd love to hear what you know/think. Thanks again for all the help across many posts.

Thanks for breaking it down Radatats. I missed the footswitch options that switched the preamps, and the split after the first preamp really had me scratching my head.

Now you're giving me GAS to get a DT amp... damn it....

It could be the right option for you if you understand what the DT25 is going in. I didn't, but luckily it's pretty much exactly what I wanted. To me, it's a great sounding power amp and cabinet combo with optional HD preamp, reverb, and cabinet emulation. For recording, I plan to hook up my Helix, though others could use the internal HD engine or a hardware preamp. But what I find truly impressive are the tube amp controls. Switching between negative feedback topologies, class, and output (Triode/Pentode) flavors have really brought my tones to life. And while the HD or HX engines still have a trace of that digital graininess in the distortion, and that will still be present, the DT25 has been useful for getting closer to a true amp-in-the-room sound when mic'd, something I personally haven't been able to get while "in the box". Additionally, it sounds very great with my acoustic-electric plugged into either the guitar input with emulation turned off or straight into the power-amp in, and the tube options allow me to choose how crisp, clear, or broken-up I want it to sound. It's really incredible.

As for the L6 Link stuff, yes it's unfortunate that it can't work as seamlessly with the Helix as it could the POD HD, but I certainly wouldn't count that as a strike against it. Being able to turn the knobs on the DT25 and have it reflect on the POD HD is incredibly convenient and has that immediate "wow-factor" we all love, but adjusting the knobs on the Helix isn't that much less convenient. Secondly, the other big feature that the "Dream Rig" has is the automatic power amp voice-switching capability. It's another thing that's very cool and can amaze your guitarist friends, but practically I cannot see myself needing to switch topologies in the middle of songs (Note: you can still control voicing controls and more with a MIDI footswitch). Instead, I just use the controls on the top of the amp to change the power-amp settings, ​which is still an incredible feature​.  I have a feeling that guitarists who use the DT25 will, like myself, find the settings that work best for them. Need to tighten up your extra-heavy distorted tone? Try Topology IV, Class AB, Triode. Do you want your tone to really breathe so that you can really feel every dynamic of your playing? Try Topology III, Class A, Pentode. Those settings will not​ work for everyone, but the great thing about the DT25 is that it's incredibly easy to find out what will​ work for you. Maybe you're playing through that Rectifier with the wrong tube settings, but isn't the fun of being a guitarist making up new sounds?

The way I see it, this amp is an all-around amazing piece of equipment, and while "Dream Rig" forward compatibility was a nice dream, it would have simply been a cherry on top. Just consider the L6 Link as a digital connection that feeds into the DT25 at the same point the input jack does: before the modeler. If you want to go after​ the modeler (and there are benefits and drawbacks to either method), go straight into the power amp input with a 1/4".

Do you have a need for a great-sounding tube power amp and cabinet system with configurable tube options with the ability to store 8 HD-quality amps and 2 independent reverbs for the road? If any of that appeals to you, then I highly recommend it. I saw someone selling a used DT25, right here on the forums, for $600. I got mine "open box" from Musician's Friend for $640. I'm sure deals will be easy to find as more Line 6 fans switch to the Helix and sell their DT25s because they believe them to be "incompatible". To FlyingsCool or anyone else who reads this post, let their loss be your gain, because while the two might not be seamless, they are an incredible pair.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I would skip on the template initially. The problem with it is the DT hasn't been "prepared" to run with the Helix and you'll end up running the Helix modeling into the DT modeling. I would start by hooking the amp up to DT edit and turning everything off; basically turning it into a tube power amp with a few adjustable settings (topology, pentode/diode, class A/AB). Eliminate the cab sims as well, to my knowledge those were only applied to the DI out and had no effect whatsoever on what was being sent to the speaker. They were specifically for FOH.

Thanks for this. I was aware that I needed to turn off the amps, but thanks for making sure I had that squared away. As robbieb61 mentioned, I too notice the cabinet emulation (on the DT25 Combo at least) changes the tone. The cabinet-simulated output get's the microphone emulation applied to it, and to my knowledge it's the only thing that does (makes sense!). Perhaps that's what you were thinking of.

I then feed the DI out from the DT back into my Helix's mic input on path 2. This I will run through a HX cab or IR and then set the output path to XLR. Now I am able to still monitor my sound through the amp but also have a full signal being sent to FOH. I usually tweak my patches either with my studio monitors or through my Alto TS110A.

Hope this helps to clarify things a bit for you and here's a link to one of the more complete threads on this topic.

http://line6.com/support/topic/18843-helix-dt25-worthy-of-more-exploration/?fromsearch=1

This is a really good idea, and I'm definitely going to try this! Thanks for the link as well.

My final solution after tweaking since Oct. of 2015 when I first got my Helix is:  I use the preamps in Helix go out the L6 link using Topology IV only on the DT amp and use the HD cab inside the DT (whichever one fits your style)...after playing with that a bit and trying different cabs, I finally just used the HD cab model with a single celestion so that it "matches" the celestion in the DT combo amp itself. 
That way I'm hearing exactly what the FOH is getting out of the back of the DT 50.

That's a great idea with using the Celestion cab emulation. I'll likely use the Helix in lieu of the HD amp emulation stage, find an IR that works with the majority of my tones, and just adjust the power amp settings on the amp itself (matching the 4 presets on each channel to the corresponding topology, so the preset selector works only as a topology selector). Thanks for the advice!

Let's discuss all this here:

http://line6.com/support/forum/23-dt50-dt25/

Thanks Klangmaler. You're right, I thought my question was more Helix-centric, but it seems that it is indeed more about the DT25. I'm not sure how to move the post, but I have more questions, I'll be sure to post them there.

Thanks for the replies.

Thanks in part to the information you've provided across the forums, radatats, I have been able to figure out how the DT25's emulation is set up and how to disable the amps. I did notice that the DT25-DT50 Template for the Helix provided by Line 6 seems mostly to just have the DT power amp settings assigned to footswitches. However, I was mostly curious about their strange Preamp configuration in the template. It looks like the signal is sent through one preamp, the output of which is split with one path going into another preamp and meeting up with the other path before output. There doesn't seem to be any panning. Is this kind of setup normal with physical preamps, going from one into another and so forth? The reason I ask is simply because I assume Line 6 had good reasoning when they did that, and if I understand why, I might be able to use that in my own tones.

Thanks again!

The factory presets for the Helix include a patch under Templates called DT25-DT50 Remote. Does anyone know why the signal is routed through two preamps? I am simply curious, as I've been experimenting with the Helix and a DT25. Thanks!

Hey everyone.
 

I understand that the Helix+DT integration questions have been asked a thousand times before, so I will make this as brief as possible. I have a POD HD500X, finally got a DT25, gotta say these things work very nicely together. I also have a Helix. I've experimented with the DT25-DT50 Remote template on the Helix, used some DT Edit software, and I've read a lot of forum posts. I feel as though I've finally wrapped my head around the DT25, but the cabinet IR situation confuses me.

First, the Helix DT25-DT50 Remote template is set up to use the Helix's preamp models. This template's MIDI functionality only allows me to change the voicing settings, but not the DT25's cab model, which surprises me because the DT25 can receive a MIDI signal that will change it's internal cab model. Is Line 6 assuming that there is a specific DT25 cab model I'll be using when I pair the Helix and the DT25? Or should I turn the cab emulation off on the DT25 when using Helix preamp models?

Secondly, if I do turn the cab emulation on the DT25 off, can I use the Helix Cabs with the DT25? I believe I read that the Cab IRs that are built into the DT25 are specially designed to work with the custom Celestion speaker. Is this true? If I can use a cab from the Helix, where in the signal chain do I put it? Right after the Preamp, or is there a better place to put it, like in the FX return or something?

Thanks for taking the time to look over my question. I understand that "what sounds best" to me is how it's supposed to be set up, but I'm asking this to understand how the DT25 is set up and to figure out different ways that I can hook the Helix into the DT25. Thanks for the help.

I'm about to purchase a Marshall 1960A for use as a cab with my Helix. The Helix will act as the amp head, pre- and power-amp. I'm new to using the Helix in this way. I know that it's possible to hook it up this way, but does anyone have any advice as to how to do it? The 1960A has a 4 Ohm and 16 Ohm input, as well as an 8 Ohm stereo mode. Which outputs would I use to connect my Helix, the stereo outs? And do I need to set the resistance to match the cab? Would you recommend this cab with the Helix?

Sorry to ask such a basic question, I will continue to peruse the manual to see if I can find anything in there that I might have missed. Thank you for helping.

Thanks for all the feedback. He knows about clipping, and how to avoid it, thankfully. I will have him error on the side of having a quieter recording.

Also, thank you pfsmith0, that was exactly what I needed to know. I'll have him set it in the middle and see what it's like when he sends me some test files. I took a look at that data, and it was really helpful! Thanks!

I am going to be producing a few demos for a friend of mine that lives across the country. Something that I wanted to try out was taking his vocals, recorded DI (if you will) through his POD HD 500, and then "reamping" it though my Helix. I have Neve preamp that I really like, and I plan on using the FX loop of the Helix to send his signal through it. That said, being a preamp, it's expecting a mic-level signal. What can I do to make sure that my friend records at this level? Should the mic trim be turned the whole way up or the whole way down? He's going to be plugging directly into the mic input on the POD HD 500 setup with a blank signal chain (I've done DI guitars this way).

Any info or tips are appreciated!

Awesome! Thanks for all this information HonestOpinion. I didn't even think of the Aux Out from the firefly! I'm going to mull this over and experiment!

Excellent to know! Then it was the opposite of how I was thinking about it. In that case, if I have my guitar plugged into the Guitar In on the front, and I record USB 7/8 in my DAW (the DI signal that bypasses all processing), what impedance is being recorded? There's no global setting (that I've found) or a setting for USB 7/8 (there is no input block for this, of course), so I'm having a hard time understanding this.

Thanks again!

I just recently got a Helix (finally!) and I've been spending some time trying to digest all the options and settings. I read that Firmware 2.0 changed the impedance settings so it's per-input rather than global (which is incredibly flexible). However, I've been unable to find out what impedance the USB Input blocks use (or the DI input, though I imagine that doesn't really apply). If I have a DI (dry) signal going from my DAW into the Helix, is there any way to adjust the impedance, or is it automatically set to auto (and therefore affected by the first block)? Thanks for the help!

If you are just using it to get some tubeish quality on your tone, I'd say up front or you can put it in a loop block and place it anywhere in the chain that sounds the best.

Since you do not need it for sending a signal with the Helix. I turned many on to a little trick of using the MIC Tube Preamp model set for line and low gain to add a little tube like quality to the amp models. It does well up front or after the amp model, depends on the overall tone, sometimes I use both. Just put it in a loop block and move it around till you get the desired tube enhancement. That's alI can offer on it, maybe others have ideas. 

Thanks for the tip! I considered setting it up this way. I also have a Neve preamp I'd like to put in the signal this way, but I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do that. I'll try this with the DI. The only thing that confuses me is how to manage the levels. The DI receives an instrument level input and outputs at line level. The sends and returns on the Helix seem to be paired, either line in/out or instrument in/out. I can experiment, though, as I doubt I'm going to break anything if the levels are off.

Actually, the simplest way would be to use it as a direct box taking your 1/4" out from the Helix into the A channel and using the thru (or Aux out) to your stage amp and the XLR as a direct out to the PA board.  That's how it's designed to be used anyway.

I didn't mention (and I should have) that this is how I have it set up for live playing, but I wanted to try recording with the DI, using the Helix as an interface, and still get the smooth warmth I'm used to from the Firefly on my recorded tracks. But I appreciate you walking me through a good live signal chain!

What makes the answer to how to use the Radial Firefly potentially a little more complicated is that it has the "Drag Controlâ„¢ load correction that lets you adjust the load on a magnetic pickup so that it 'feels' as if connected to a tube amplifier.". If you need to continue using this feature you will probably have to place the DI at the beginning of your signal chain directly connected to your bass and use the Firefly's "Aux Out" to the Helix's  input. If you do that you may have to play with the impedance setting on the Helix's "Input" block or the pad setting in the Global Settings --> In/Out depending on what the output signal from the Firefly is set to. However, you will probably find you don't need the "Drag Control" on the DI with all of the available amp features on the Helix including things like the "sag" parameter which can substantially change the 'feel' of the bass, similar to the intention of the "Drag Control" on the Firefly. 

 

If you are not concerned about using the "Drag Control" feature on the Firefly then as others have said the best way to use it may be as a standard DI after the Helix and before the PA and your amp.  Use the Helix's 1/4 output connected  to the Firefly's "Input A", and then use the Firefly's "Aux Out" to your bass amp and the Firefly's XLR "Output" connection to the PA. As WickedFinger points out though you are always free to experiment and see where it sounds best in your signal chain.

 

Note: You may also want to take a look at this topic or others like it with tips on getting a good bass tone from the Helix.

http://line6.com/support/topic/22839-help-with-bass-tone/

I've never found the Drag Control to do a whole lot for me in particular, so I'll take your advice and just leave it off, and adjust the amp settings as you said!

Thanks for the help everyone! I have a quick, related follow-up question. The preamp I mentioned earlier, and my DI, have balanced XLR outs. If I wanted to utilize the Send/Return Input/Outputs on the Helix, would I be able to simply use an XLR-to-TRS (or TS) cable? Thanks again!

I have a Radial Firefly tube direct box that really warms up my bass and it's become an important part of my tone. If I wanted to use my direct box with the Helix Rack, how would I go about this? Thanks for the help!

Thanks for the help.

If I wanted to put a preamp before my Pod HD500, could I use a signal chain like this?:

Guitar -> DI Box -> Analog Preamp/devices -> POD HD500 Mic Input

Do I have to worry about impedance or level matching in this scenario?

Thanks for the help.

Hello, I am trying to record in my DAW using my Amplifi TT, but I am having some difficulty as I am able to hear my input both though the DAW and out of the device itself. I also have a POD HD 500X, and the audio control panel has a "Hardware Monitor Level", which has the exact function I am looking for on my Amplifi TT.

My input is going in the guitar in, and the output is via the headphone out. I have the TT connected to my computer via USB. If I mute the input in my DAW, I can hear the TT's input fine. When I unmute it, I can hear it "stacked" twice, so to speak. Can someone assist me so that I can only hear the output through my DAW? Thank you!

Hello, I have an old TonePort KB37. I did some searching, but couldn't find any information. What's the difference between the analog outs and the phones out? I understand that the phones is stereo, and the analog outs are mono. I'm looking to send some audio from the KB37 to my POD HD500X, and I'd like to do so in the way that would keep the audio as pure as possible. I assume the phones out isn't designed for pro audio recording, but I thought I'd ask, as sending stereo signal over one cable would be considerably more convenient.

Thanks for the help.

You're correct, my apologies. When I said dry signal last night, I was referring to digital processing. The analog signal that is going into the respective interface is unmodified, save for the preamp which has the same settings between recordings.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I am using the preamp for all three. When I did those sample recordings, I made sure the signal chain was identical. I even did my best to stand at the same proximity to the mic while talking.

A few months ago, I got a new microphone and preamp and did a handful of recordings though my old TonePort KB37. The preamp has a balanced TRS output and an XLR output, so I connected it with a balanced TRS cable to the KB37's Line 1 input. Because I just wanted a dry vocal signal, I didn't install Pod Farm or any of that stuff, just the driver.

Recently, I've switched to recording on my POD HD500X. To record dry vocals, I just switch on the tuner (in bypass mode) or use an empty preset. However, I noticed that my recordings sounded very different. So, I did some side-by-side comparisons. I also tested the Mic input on the KB37. What I found out is that everything sounds exactly the same except the KB37's line input. I've attached some samples for comparison (the HD500X recording was connected with a TRS cable via the Aux input).

Is there any explanation as to why the line input on the KB37 sounds this way? Can I fix it? Should I redo all of those recordings?

Here are the samples:

KB37 Mic Input: mic.mp3

KB37 Line Input: line.mp3

HD500X Aux Input: hd500x.mp3

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. Good to know the Aux In is correct.

When using the FX loop approach, would the FX Send from the POD go into the DI or the Line In on the Pre73? Also, since the preamp's output is balanced TRS, would that go to the FX Return right or left/mono on the POD?

Thanks again!

If anyone isn't sure of the answer, but can point me in the right direction to get a start on a solution, I'd appreciate it! Thanks again.

I recently purchased a GAP Pre73 MKII and a Shure SM7. I'd like to use both of these to record vocals through my POD HD500, but I'm a little confused as to the proper way to set this up. Here's what I'm doing: My SM7 is going into the Pre73's Mic In via an XLR cable, and then the Pre73's output is going through a balanced TRS cable to the POD's Aux in. I read in the manual that the Aux In is unbalanced. Will this negatively affect my signal, or if I use a balanced TRS cable, will the signal stay balanced? Is there a better way to set this up, or a special configuration I need to use?

When I connect the SM7 to the POD directly, via XLR to the POD's Mic In, the level in my DAW seems great and the mic is sufficiently loud (and the SM7 is a notoriously quiet mic). When I use my aforementioned setup, the level in my DAW is very low, even though I have both knobs on my Pre73 cranked to max. This has led me to believe I am doing something wrong. For what it's worth, I am using high-quality Mogami cables.

As a somewhat-related sidenote, is it possible to run my Pre73 as part of an "fx loop"? Would there be a benefit to this? I'd like to use the Pre73 to warm up my bass and I figure that could be a way to do it, or should I simply plug the bass into the Pre73, and then the Pre73 into the POD?

Thanks for reading this and thanks for the help. The world of pro audio sometimes befuddles my brain, so I really appreciate it.

Hello, and thanks for taking the time to read this.

While recording with my POD HD500, I have noticed an issue with some kind of digital static. It's usually not a big deal when I am playing, but when I allow my guitar to ring out (typically at the end of a song), I begin to notice an strange static coming out from behind the guitars. This issue is made worse if I double track or add additional guitar tracks, as it is multiplying the noise. I'm not very audio-tech savvy, so I was hoping someone could help me locate (and possibly eliminate) the source of this noise.

My guitar uses EMGX pickups. When I turn on the tuner, I get a clean, smooth DI tone with no noise whatsoever (unless I move my guitar's pickups within inches of the various electronics in my studio), making me think I should rule out the pickups. Additionally, changing cables has no effect. I've tried multiple lengths from Fender to generic, so I am also thinking I should rule out the cables.

The POD HD500 makes a constant white noise when I have it on certain patches. When I use my Treadplate patch (Drive 64%, Vol 100%, no pedals, just the amp), there is constant noise whether or not I have anything plugged into the POD. Is this normal? The noise is different if I choose different amps (being most obvious on Uber, Treadplate, F-Ball and Elektrik), making me believe this is just how the amps act in real life and are thus emulated, so I think this can be ruled out.

I thought maybe it was a ground loop hum, so I bought a HumX, but plugging various things into it (PC, POD, power strip) has absolutely no effect. Hopefully I can rule this out, return it, and get my money back.

I've tried using noise gates, but as long as the guitar is ringing out, the static is there. It has a very digital sound, and I suspect it might be coming from my computer. If turn my guitar's volume down, I get the amp noise I was talking about earlier, but as I turn the volume up (strings muted of course), it's like I'm dialing in this digital static.

Sorry for the TL;DR. My main goal here is finding out what is normal/abnormal and what I can fix (and if I can return my HumX... that thing was $60!)

Thanks for the help. I'll be happy to upload some examples if they are needed.