ddmilne

IF you cant easily connect to an amp or FRFR powered system without hours of fiddle lollipoping it is not an amp modeler. The amps they try to simulate have very few controls to work with and require little fuss. If you have to spend hours filtering out digital noise and trying to add coloration to get a pleasing sound to one patch aloe, yet still never getting a natural amp sound with flexibility. what is the point.

You can try to embarrass as many as you want in this forum because you are tone deaf and never actually ever played any of these amp models. The truth is that Helix , Boss GT1000,Fractal Audio and Kemper   all lack real true analogue quality of the real deal . I truly wish that were not true. I have had all of them, quite thankfully being able to return them to the dealer.

Lets be honest, There is too much discontinuity between manufactures to select one multi effects amp modeler with another front end amp or powered monitor.  While one sounds great though a FRFR system it sounds like crap piped to the front show and vice versa. At best this a patch by patch analysis. Analogue sound, digital control is the best you can get. That isnt even perfect.

We have a long way to go. So save your money and wait until these guys come to the plate with a real system worth the money

Last year I think I was the worst critic of the Line 6 Helix.I too, couldn't get a warm tone. I blamed Line6 for a terrible product. Through a mishap at the local music store I Recently ended up  renting a Helix LT. When I got it home I uploaded the latest firmware upgrade. Un-be-known to me, the previous renter had left the unit in a user mode without any patches. I thought he wiped everything out so I began making my own. To my surprise I got a usable tone. Then I thought about the last experience I had  which was very bad. I soon realized that what I was running the helix through then was a fender tube amp, but this time i was running through a Boss Katana 50 on a clean channel. The Katana is solid state and somewhat Full Range. So I tried all the things the guys tried to tell me last year and it worked remarkably well. That Being said, the first thing you need to do is to set your cabinet low cut and hi limits to 80-120HZ for lows, and high cut off around 4KHZ. Then I would add a similar High/ Low Cut EQ at the end of the signal chain. Also be mindful of the gain levels you use with your amp model you choose. If your going to put overdrive/distortion ahead of or behind the amp model - less amp gain is more in many cases with the use of OD/DIST effects. So to get a nice overdrive lower the gain to get a warm overdrive breakup or rythmn gain from the amp model first,. That is, unless the amp model is going to carry all of the OD/DIST. I also would get a hold of presets like fremens best picks or the like to see what they are doing but I noticed that they are almost always insisting on the us of FRFR monitors. .An FRFR monitor like the Headrush 112 is an affordable option. I run two with my AX8 and will likewise use the same for the helix. I use AX8 live, but with my latest experience I am going to use the HELIX at my next opportunity. I dont see any issue using it live under the present circumstances. I have been able , finally, to get low-med- and high gain overdrive without the harshness. OH, before I forget, use a 10 band EQ and totally drop out anything above 8KHZ to avoid digital noise and make use of noise gates where needed.

I can get great amp sounds ay clean levels only, Any amp overdrive or distortion when playing any Rythm  is  a muddy harsh blend, No amount of filtering gets rid of It. IR;s do not help.

This will be my last post on this forum, and some of you will be happy to hear this. Apparently the only thingsome of  you want to hear is that the Helix is the greatest. There is a reason why Youtube clips only show guys paying  Lead against a backing track. Try playing Rhythm with crunch, drive and heavy tones without sounding like a mathematic result. If you cant achieve some level of transparency and string separation, what is the point. Another weekend wasted trying to filter out the offensive freqeuncies and crossover and no good result. If you havent anything to offer other than deflamatory remarks , keep it to yourself. Line6 needs to hear the truth so they can do like the rest of us in manufacturing and work on continuos improvement. The goal of multi effects pedalboards should be to not sound digital , but as near true to real  life reproduction. The Helix is being returned to the store today.

Over the past week or so I have gone from blasting Helix to making headway. It , for sure , is a lot of work. Can we have a discussion that pertains to rattiness on overdrives and getting clear tight sounds out of most amp models. I have finally had some success and I am encouraged. But I could use the benefit of everyones experience in getting to understand what parameters have the best affect with bring clarity to the amp models and distortion models. I guess I am still struggling with warming tones up, but no where near as has been the case when I started. So I am not bashing the product , it has tons of great features.Also, I am presently using a powered P.A monitor form L&M that is apparently full range. SO we are not dealing with the amps. But I do need to find out how to run this as a live rig . Thanks to everyone that has seen past the frustration and focused on providing me with constructive feedback. 

Agreed, there are more than a few from my age group that feel that way. I on the other hand, making my living from automation and controls, want to take advantage of this capability in a live setting and produce a pleasant and corresponding tone fitting the music I am trying to replicate.

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

And that’s the exact wrong approach to take... If anything, it shows that there’s a need for more training needed with music store staff, but even that can be tricky as those sorts of jobs typically have pretty high turnover rates.

 

The long and the short of is the Helix is a pro-level piece of gear that requires some amount of background knowledge to use it well. I think it’s one of the easiest pieces of gear to navigate, but it isn’t going to magically give people the sound that’s in their head.

Anyway guys, I am on my way, I will have the Helix back in my hands tonight ti do a side by side test between HELIX and Headrush. Although I like the sound of the Headrush, I am going to give the HELIX a second look with the proper device. I have also ordered anew FRFR powered speaker for future endeavours. I prefer the interface of the Helix over Headrush , especially with the overall access to paramters and the diversity of the effects, some of which are better than Headrush. As fars as the stores are concerned, in some areas the Helix is out of reach of most peple so the focus for the store  isnt on being experts with L6 Helix. I have passed on everything I have learned to the store and they will run with it with future L6 customers. Thanks Phil for staying wiht me in spite of my remarks about L6. I am sure I will ask for more advice, but it will be only in the interest of expediting the learning curve. 

On 4/19/2018 at 8:25 AM, ddmilne said:

It is really time for Line6 to put out an optimization manual  that helps anyone using any rig to avoid getting anything but the best sounds out of the Helix. I have been trying to use Combo amp front end and effects returns and havent been able to reproduce any soudn shown on demos. This is keeping me and others from buying a helix because we want proof that the sounds are achievable. 1399 to 2000 dollars is a lot to spend to haev pay restocking fees because you cant  stand how it sound. Many buyers claim they are the bext thing since slice bread. Help us get there and save some customers. Other competitors like headrush are as bad, Boss Gt1000 stilll hasnt resolved the process sound issue and isnt as flexible as the helix. So help us out. All I get on the blogs are vague answers.

On 5/20/2016 at 1:13 PM, archisc said:

Should Helix effects and drives etc be placed between amp and cab as is real world?

 

I see a lot of ppl place amp and cab next to each other instead.

On 4/25/2018 at 1:10 PM, phil_m said:

Dude, this is like your sixth thread on this topic... People have been trying to help you, and you generally have not been responding to their comments. There are not "thousands of complaints". There are thousands of happy users, I'm sure. Continually spamming the board isn't going to change anything. If you literally put 60 hours into it, and aren't getting anywhere, I think it's safe to assume that something is either wrong with your setup or even perhaps the Helix you're using.

 

If you really want solutions, you need to give more details about how you're using the Helix, what sounds you're hoping to get, and what guitar(s) you're using. People are more than willing to help.

For your information, I have responded and tried all of your suggestions. Some of you had excellent suggestions under the right circumstances. It is clear that most everyone who has success with a Helix has a sore spot for those of us who havent got there  yet, and are frustrated by it. I have repeatedly said that I was running through the effects return of an amp and that I was either using the Hot Rod or the Grandmeister deluxe. Some have commented that the Hot Rod doesnt have an amp in , and it does and always has. This is where I do blame line6 for not being upfront to the fact that these rigs will not run with amp and cab sims and the like through the front or effects return of a tube amp. I have had the opportunity to take your suggestions with me to Long and Mcquade where I was able to test these out through a powered monitor. The difference is day and night. But as far as sounding natural, close, an exciting development, but not quite there yet. So  I took a headrush home under the same circumstances and got a much more natural sound ( Using the same powered monitor as I did with the Helix in the store). The drawback with Headrush is that HELIX has a more complex and usable interface when it comes to scribble strips, equalization and cab paramters,   and much more disctint overdrive and distortion model selection. The headrush has a better sound model for the TS808. If I could put the headrush tone into a helix board I would have the very best. That being said, I am going to work out another trial with the Helix alongside the Headrush now that you have all educated me where LINE6 failed to be upfront. I would tell you that you are going to run into posts like mine, I garauntee it. Slamming us for being frustrated with a product isnt any help either.FOR SURE LINE6 NEEDS TO BE CLEAR AND CONCISE ON WHAT HELIX CAN RUN THROUGH and WHAT IT CANT DO- in my opinion. The  guys at long and Mcquade were also surprised to see and hear what has been the issue wiith Customers who have tried Helix and why they have returned units complaining about the same thing. The very first thing peolle do in a music store is plug them into an amp and try the presets out. If they are not being told that they need an FRFR monitor and time to tweak high and low cuts- what do you expect? Anyway, I am on my way with the HELIX and I am sure that you wont hear from me again except to save me some time locating how to do something. Thank you to those who got back to me and expressed how they misunderstood what I was experiencing and why this was happening. 

Yes it is the sixth time I used this forum. I have tried low/HIgh Cut and Everything EQ. I have used evey guita impedance, Guitar Pad, master volume, you name it. And overall there has been improvement, but nothing that I would use in a live setting. In fact, it is painfull to the ears after a while. It takes place in the form a a repeatable fizziness to overdrive an distortion sounds that gets worse with OD and DIST effects added in. I also found that effects placement has a dramatic effect on sound quality.  When this all started I could use any amp+cab functions. Some of the suggestions have resulted in that not being the case anymore. I dont know who does or doesnt work for Line6 on this forum. But this isnt going to be something that can be solved altogether by tweeking this or that parameter. It is a firmware issue line6 needs to solve. There are pages and pages of the same complaint on the internet. I would like, hope, to see that Line 6 is working on the problem. So far, I cant get an answer from them even after submitting a ticket. Enough said. If there is a method to resolving this intellegently I am all ears and would be extremely happy to follow it. Like I said, it is almost there, but I cant get rod of it altogether and it is annoying. I imagine as annoying as my posts are to some of you. And to those who have made good suggestions, references to videos. I sincerely appreciated you taking the time to try and help me out.

This is a shout out to Line6 concerning the Helix. You did a great job in setting up the interface so that it could useful and intuitive with scribble strips and tons of other ground breaking options. But, it is clear from the thousands of complaints about "apparent digital clipping", "fizziness", bright pick attack, which are all elements of the same problem, that fixes need to be forthcoming. I would like to stay with and buy outright the Helix if these things are fixed. Presently, I have one that is being rented to me so that I can see if it is going to work for me before I put out 2000.00 dollars. Now I know some of you on the forum see this as complaining , but I just spent almost 60 Hours over the past week and a half learning how to get near good tones without getting there. I did everything that was recommended and followed the most popular experts on youtube. Still the problem is there. LINE6 Please, look at this issue and see if improvements can be made. Regards

I have had good success with cleaner amp models but with high gain amp models, by the time you get anything warm it is too bassy. When adding distortion to the mix cant get rid of the fizziness and eventually everything just sounds too processed.

On 5/20/2016 at 1:13 PM, archisc said:

Should Helix effects and drives etc be placed between amp and cab as is real world?

 

I see a lot of ppl place amp and cab next to each other instead.

What I found myself is that the only effect that shoudl be ahead of the amp is the distoriton models. For whatever reason, effects before the amp color things in a bad way. You also need to use EQ and Low/High Cut features along with global eq to get rid of the harshness and digital clipping

full amp modelsw

I was able to get some good tones out of amp models that were cleaner in performance like the fener type amps, but medium to high gain amps were discontinous , severely grainy or similar to what happens when a noise gate is set to high. 

I am replying to a combative response by some who feel that belittling a person looking for help is a correct response. My research on this topic is more than a few months in the making. I have tried everything all the way to FRFR as I stated. I am goin into the effects return of either a Fender Hot Rod, A Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister, an even direct through the bands pa board. I have turned off the CAbs, Used HIgh Cut and Low Cut, PAD/NO PAD, Line out , Instrument in. Still only limited success

First, if it takes a rocket scientist to run a multi effects pedal than it has failed its objective. For those of you who think that spoon feeding or codling is the only help you can give, than you really are not helping anyone. IF you have to spend half your life to get a good tone for one song-- what is the point. You dont pay 50,000 for a car or truck to take a college coarse on how to start it up and drive it. 2000.00 is a proce of a near top end amp that you can turn on and tweek with no effort. Line6 , in offering this product needs to do much better to get people to first base based on the scenario of the rig they might be using, or at least be right up front that the only way to use this properly is by buying yet another pieced of equipment in the form of another 1000.0o FRFR. Muscians, not computer and sound engineering geniuses, want to play. They want to easily use a multi effects unit to get to a storable, usable, and recallable preset in a reasonable amount of setup time.  If it is impossible to get to that point than the solution offered by line6 is not practical and way too complicated . My occupation is one of engineering in a controls environment, so I am not without having to learn software and such based systems. Nothing is working, not even through an FRFR at the local music store. In fact the number f product returns is mounting. Now, the fact that some are able to get this thing to a tamed position means that the knowledge is there. So , unless line6 wants to wait for its competition to bury them in this sens, I want to suggest that they start to listen to the hundreds of users complaining all over the internet about the same issue- harshness and unusable amp models. And please, no more helpful suggestions that the hundreds of us need to grow up and expect to spen months, or better yet, to  pay to learn how use a solution on what otherwise is being ushered as the next best thing to sliced bread. 

On 4/19/2018 at 8:25 AM, ddmilne said:

It is really time for Line6 to put out an optimization manual  that helps anyone using any rig to avoid getting anything but the best sounds out of the Helix. I have been trying to use Combo amp front end and effects returns and havent been able to reproduce any soudn shown on demos. This is keeping me and others from buying a helix because we want proof that the sounds are achievable. 1399 to 2000 dollars is a lot to spend to haev pay restocking fees because you cant  stand how it sound. Many buyers claim they are the bext thing since slice bread. Help us get there and save some customers. Other competitors like headrush are as bad, Boss Gt1000 stilll hasnt resolved the process sound issue and isnt as flexible as the helix. So help us out. All I get on the blogs are vague answers.

 First, if it takes a rocket scientist to run a multi effects pedal than it has failed its objective. For those of you who think that spoon feeding or codling is the only help you can give, than you really are not helping anyone. IF you have to spend half your life to get a good tone for one song-- what is the point. You dont pay 50,000 for a car or truck to take a college coarse on how to start it up and drive it. 2000.00 is a proce of a near top end amp that you can turn on and tweek with no effort. Line6 , in offering this product needs to do much better to get people to first base based on the scenario of the rig they might be using, or at least be right up front that the only way to use this properly is by buying yet another pieced of equipment in the form of another 1000.0o FRFR. Muscians, not computer and sound engineering geniuses, want to play. They want to easily use a multi effects unit to get to a storable, usable, and recallable preset in a reasonable amount of setup time.  If it is impossible to get to that point than the solution offered by line6 is not practical and way too complicated . My occupation is one of engineering in a controls environment, so I am not without having to learn software and such based systems. Nothing is working, not even through an FRFR at the local music store. In fact the number f product returns is mounting. Now, the fact that some are able to get this thing to a tamed position means that the knowledge is there. So , unless line6 wants to wait for its competition to bury them in this sens, I want to suggest that they start to listen to the hundreds of users complaining all over the internet about the same issue- harshness and unusable amp models. And please, no more helpful suggestions that the hundreds of us need to grow up and expect to pay to learn how use a solution on what otherwise is being ushered as the next best thing to sliced bread

Helix run through the effects return of a Fender or Hughes and Kettner , most amp models sound discontinuos and harsh. Cab Sims are off using amp models only. Many of the FUZZ and Distortion pedal attacks and sounds also too harsh. Set uo for instrument in and line out. Added EQ's for and aft of the amp in every configuration, lowere hugh cuts globally and yet nothing excpet the cleanest of modles sounds usable. Does anyone have a clear and concise set of intructions to get the best possible setup for live rig using the Combo amp as a power amp. 

It is really time for Line6 to put out an optimization manual  that helps anyone using any rig to avoid getting anything but the best sounds out of the Helix. I have been trying to use Combo amp front end and effects returns and havent been able to reproduce any soudn shown on demos. This is keeping me and others from buying a helix because we want proof that the sounds are achievable. 1399 to 2000 dollars is a lot to spend to haev pay restocking fees because you cant  stand how it sound. Many buyers claim they are the bext thing since slice bread. Help us get there and save some customers. Other competitors like headrush are as bad, Boss Gt1000 stilll hasnt resolved the process sound issue and isnt as flexible as the helix. So help us out. All I get on the blogs are vague answers.

I am trying to set up a trial at my music store with an FRFR. The Boss GT1000 played through an amp does have the familiar digital processed sound and it doesnt appear to have the flexibility of a helix. SO yes, I will be giving it another trial against the GT1000. Most of the units I have tried, Headrush included, seem to have a process envelope that comes out the speaker that makes it sound like your listening from the inside of a box. I would like to know if you were able to get away from that with your experience.

I had a helix and was, like many others, unable to get a less than harsh tone out of it  with exception of the clean tones. Most Overdrive and Distortion sounds were unusable in a live setting. Way too harsh. I tried at will to get someone from line 6 community to suggest what may be wrong but everything I tried failed. I can see how Metal players might enjoy it, but I found that it muddled the lower registers with little string separation, and for 2000.00 CDN , this simply wasnt acceptable. I personally thought line 6 put more into the presenntation of the device than it did into reall musical functionality and reproduction of the varisous effects and amp models. However, it is possible that everything is on the setup. But out of the box I wasnt impressed. I play professionally and so far very few digital effects get a pass from me outside of delay and reverb units. If a lot of us are missing the magic, line6 needs to ilustrate more abundantly how to get good sounds out of each of its offerings. And there is the processed soudn that most of these pedals produce. This is a hurtle that needs to be slaid in my opinion.

I have been able to demo the GT1000 and , unlike all other multi effects pedals headrush and helix, plays nice into the front end and effects loop of a combo amp. Not the case with a Helix and Headrush that requires full range speakers to sound decent. It is also built quite well inspite of its customary Boss appearance. It appears that functionality was the objective over first appeal to cosmetics. So I think  they will be competition for Line6 and Everyone else based on functionality, ease of use and price point.  

I recently rented a Helix LT. I used a Fender Hot Rod III ias the slave amp to the Helix. Running through the Fender Preamp and tone circuit proved a fata combination. Running throught the AMP in favored using amp models without high gain and effects. I see a lot of infomration about FRFR. I woudl like very much to be proven wrong about the Helix. But So far I havent got the full use out of it without having sore ears trying. I am about to call the store to set this up with a FRFR live monitor. Can anyone suggest a sure thing to be able get great Clean, Mild Overdrive, Crunch and Searing sounds out of this thing to sell me on it. So far , I am not impressed. I get a lot of feddback suggesting I am setting thins up worng, but none have a sure set up to have this work  through a guitar amp. So here I am hopoing for advice with the best system to use to be able to play live with ti.

Can you just describe - in detail, stage by stage - exactly how you are set up. Starting with the main guitar you use, (pickups) and going all the way through to the speaker(s) you are playing through.

Used both Les Paul Classic and Fender Stratocaster Professional . Guitar inot helix, Send output to the power amp in on the Hot Rod Deluxe. Guitar Pad on and off. Send set to instrument. Have to use amp only most of the time or the sound is worse.

When you say "going into the front end is awful", if you mean plugging into the guitar input jack on an amp, yes, that will most likely sound awful if you leave the Helix's amp/cab modeling on. If you use the Helix for effects only in that scenario, it works very well.

 

Really, if you want to use the amp and cab modeling, you need a decent FRFR speaker. Ideally, you want something that doesn't color the tone much and something with a lot of clean headroom.

I will try it with the effects only and see how that fairs out. But that sort of defeats the purpose for the helix. I have had slight success turning the speaker sims off. but , like i said, turnning up gain or adding od/dist doesnt pan out. But I will try the effects only. I will see about renting an FRFR to see if this works . If it does, great.

I would venture to guess that you're not setting up something correctly if you think the overdrive or distortion sounds are awful... There are literally hundreds of examples of great distorted tones from the Helix out there.

 

In what way do you think the effects selection is limited

That's the million dollar question. In my Area , everyone has the same experience. To even get a good sound at all we have to use send return into the power amp of a combo amp. Going into the front end is awful. If there are settings required to that extent, Line 6 hasn' made any effort to offer up suggestions. Ive heard those demos and most of them are high gain. even on high gain settings the result is harsh painful od/distorton sounds. I would like very much to be directed to the secret. after a full week- still no luck.