xmacvicar

1 minute ago, kimsharp said:

I went back and checked the Volume knob. It was set to multi, I normally set it to only control the XLR output so when I feed the house I can control the level. Thanks, Xmacvicar.

Interesting. I am glad its working, however, if it was set to multi, this should have also controlled the signal over digital L6 Link, so that kind of doesn't make sense? 

Scratching my head there haha

Global settings are reset during the update, is it possible your output settings are not done properly?

Just now, JLondon said:

I'm not an expert and am learning myself so ... But I'm just wondering why the need , if you have Native, to include the Helix floor at all except in the case that you want the use of expression pedals (wah, etc.) - which, if I understand correctly, will be included in the dry signal and can't be edited out later if so desired.  On the flip side, you can't use expression pedals with native if you wanted either (not to my knowledge anyway).   When recording, I just plug my guitar straight into my daw ... wait ... I think I just answered my own question.  The Helix floor may be your only daw option.  If so, If I were you I'd save up and get a separate daw for the desktop or even a portable one for on the road.  I like my Steinberg UR 28M for desktop, wasn't too much and even included Cubase elements, footprint is much smaller and cabling is way less messy.  Basically my Helix floor is now for live play only except for when I need wah or expression pedal on a recording.

Floor is not needed for sure, if you have another input device - which I do. However, I am using the floor for zero latency monitoring.

The dry signal I record on Input 7 can then later be adjusted with Native, at my desk, without me needing to re-connect the floor and go through the entire re-amping process/workflow.

This is all how I understand it to be.

New MacBook prob has usb 3 connections. Get a proper USB cable and you should be fine. 

Hi Friends!
 

Starting to get into some recording and learning Logic Pro X. Want to make this quick - does this sound right?

On 1 track I record the full stereo signal inputs 1&2 in Logic which is my full affected/wet sound from Helix floor, direct in USB.

Also on track 7 I record the straight dry sound coming from Helix.

This gives me the ability to use Helix Native (which I just bought today on the summer sale) to 'redo' this track down the road if I so choose to? 

I know I could reamp with Helix floor, but I thought just having Native in conjunction with the dry track would streamline this even further?

53 minutes ago, codamedia said:

I just listened to your audio sample... that is crazy! I could imagine the move could change the tone if was swapping positions with another effect... but not into an empty slot like you diagram shows.

 

If you are moving it in HX Edit you need to eliminate that as a potential problem.

• I see by your image that the Helix Floor is version 2.7.1. Is HX Edit the same version? You find that under Help > About.
• Turn edit off, unplug the USB cable, and try moving it on the unit itself to see if this problem still continues.

 

If the problem continues, try a few troubleshooting tests...

• Rather than move the IR to the right, what happens if you completely remove the IR from it's current position, then add it in the position you want? This would help to figure out of it's a "position problem" or a "move problem".
• Load a different IR into the current position... then move it to see if the problem continues. This would help figure out if it's a "position/move problem", or a "specific IR problem". 

Tested on Helix unit itself and ISSUE DOES NOT PERSIST. HX Edit is the only thing causing my original issue to happen.

Happening on all snaps, sorry I need to update the original post

There's def something wrong with mine, its wild. Top IR block is moved ONE to the right.

Audio example attached

Untitled - 2019-05-18, 6.19 PM.mp3

Top path: OH 412 ENG V30 421-F

1B: OH 412 ENG V30 421-E

Without having the IR files in here (the exact ones, Im guessing tests may be inconclusive) ... who knows?

PANTERA.hlx

Here is a patch im working on, its a "Pantera" type metal patch. If I move this IR over just one single block it totally changes the sound (all snapshots affected)

Shapshot screenshot

What is going on there? It shouldn't do anything to the tone.

I have a pair of ATH-M40fs headphones (they are now discontinued). Do they sound bad...no ? But I have really no other point of reference. 

The specs of these are: 

I wouldn't mind upgrading my headphones to something else if I got better sound quality when using alongside my Helix. I do have a pair of shure 215's that I use for my drum kit - I never put those in the helix yet; their set for 17 Ω

What do you mean it doesn't work at all? Can you elaborate?

You enable the tuner, start tuning your guitar and then nothing on the screen? As in, zero feedback from the tuning needle (doesn't move at all?)

18 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

There's really no need to do that.  By turning up the Helix volume and lowering the amp model channel volume I end up at the same output signal level as I had before, so there's no change necessary on the speaker volume.

Interesting. In light of any changes in touch dynamics, if you say it's the same output I can see that meaning just less range of the large volume at the end of the day? Ie. If on stage and need more volume you will have less range at 3pm for increasing than what it was prior at 12?

15 hours ago, litesnsirens said:

I agree with some of the other posts here.  You shouldn’t need to buy anything else or change your set up at all just do a little more tweaking.  I can get the helix to sound great at gig level and home level but those aren’t necessarily the same thing. I’ll vote for turning it down to a reasonable volume and then tweaking... I don’t know how much you mess with the hi cut and low cut on the cabs but I find that extremely useful as well if you’re using the stock cabs try adjusting the mic distance.   These are simulations of mic’d cabs and even if you had the mic 12” (vs 1 - 3”) from the cone or edge no one actually listens to their amp with their ear that close to the speaker, it’s a totally different sound..  It’s too bad they didn’t have a mic setting of 6 to 8 feet (adjustable) to simulate where a guitar player is actually standing when listening to their amp.  I think that blended with a close mic’d cab might help get that amp in the room sound through FRFR.   I have a power cab but I really just use it between gigs when I don’t want to bother setting up my PA speakers in my house.   I use the PA speakers for tweaking tones, the power cab is just for quick easy home practice.  I like it, but honestly you should be able to do just as well with the L3Ms.

I'm torn on a power cab. Especially since I have a pair of L3M. I can't try one as there are none around me. Would really love to know if it's worth having. 

8 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

As a quick follow-up on this effort I wanted to mention something that I've seen much more consistently ever since I increased the Helix volume level.

I previously mentioned there appeared to be more dynamics in play within the converted patches and now that I've done a few more it's very clear that's the case.  Because I measure the signal levels coming out of the 1/4" output as well as through the XLR outputs it's very clear to me that the range of touch dynamics is MUCH more prominent than what I originally thought.  It's most evident with cleaner patches, and particularly prominent when finger picking on my hollow body gretsch.  But it's also quite a bit more prominent even on heavier rock style patches with a pick on a Les Paul, both in terms of how the pick is used, but also where on the strings the picking is done (toward the neck or toward the bridge).

I'm not sure I can explain it but the measurements I've taken are very much different between my old patches at the lower Helix volume and the newer patches at the higher volume, as well as subjectively to my ears.  I can only guess that it may have to do with the way the amp circuit is modeled to respond at higher channel volumes versus lower channel volumes, but who knows?  It could also have to do with the bit depth as has been postulated by some.  The amps I've seen this on are the Placater, the Fender Deluxe, the Marshall JTM-45,  and the Vox AC-30.  For myself this is a big benefit as I do a lot with dynamics in my playing, but YMMV....

Now that you are running the Helix much higher do you find that you turn down your FRFR speakers or is the reduction in Channel volume enough to make up for the extra big knob volume?

I think if I turn my Helix up like that in my jam space my l3m speakers would have to be way below unity. 

2 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

Just a quick thank you to you all for remaining civil and all the info. I really liked your post amsdemj. That answered a question or two that I have had, as many of your posts have.

As of the OP of this post, yeah thanks everyone. This was a great discussion and I learned alot. Thanks for not descending into the bowels of the internet!

I am not a powercab user, so take this for what it is! haha...I believe the recommended setting when using the Helix in conjunction with the Powercab is to run the Helix at full volume, with a LINE signal and do most of your master volume control on the Powercab itself.

Also, there was quite a bit of talk about some of the volume of the powercab being 'too low' - so thats where recommendations of LINE come in, and ensuring that the levels of the speaker models are not too low as well.

6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

There's only so many ways to keep saying the same thing. The answer is the same as it has been all along....EQ. What sounds magnificent outside of a mix will often sound irretrievably awful (and/or disappear) in a mix. The converse is equally true. But that's got absolutely nothing to do with volume, or Helix... never did, never will. When you have multiple instruments, inevitably there is frequency overlap... they're competing for the same sonic space. It's a delicate balancing act to get it all right. The rig is irrelevant... you'll eventually run into the exact same problem with a different modeler, a 1x12 combo, or a wall of Marshall cabinets. 

Fair enough. I was so frustrated by it that I was thinking "will ordering a Power Cab Plus solve my issue, thinking it would be more present and up front and more in your face than the FRFR?" Sounds like it won't, at the end of the day. 

1 hour ago, amsdenj said:

 

 

I have had similar experience, and I think I know why. First the experience. The other guitar player in my band uses a Les Paul and Fender Blues Junior. That's a 15 W amp with 1x12 open back cabinet. I use a JTV-69S and Helix with a Powercab+. The constant feedback I get is that he's too loud and no-one can hear a note I'm playing. So I have to really force myself to turn up (while also trying to do my part to keep stage volume down). Now clearly a Les Paul is going to cut through the mix better than a Strat because of the double coil pickups. But I don't think that's all of it. 

 

I think the primary issue Tom is experiencing is headroom. If you tone match a Helix/Powercab+ with a 50W Marshall 4x12, you can get very close. The cleans will sound the same as well as the high gain tones. But the difference is headroom. That Marshall can't get its tone at low volume, it needs to be cranked and loud. But Helix/Powercab can get a good tone at low volume. So what tends to happen is that we run our Helix patches with lower Master and higher gain to get the distortion we need, while controlling the overall volume with channel volume or Powercab volume. This gets a great distorted tone, but has very little headroom, even if its putting out the same dB level as the Marshall. It's the headroom that delivers punch, pick attack, articulation and feel. It's power in Watts and speaker cone area that pushes this across a large room.

 

I suspect if Helix were setup with the same headroom, power and speaker area, the outcome would be more similar. Note however that a FRFR needs to have roughly twice the power of a guitar amp to deliver the same distorted volume level. This is because the FRFR has to be run clean and a clipped signal is essentially a square wave which has 2x the area under the curve (which is power). A guitar amp rated at 50W is actually delivering 100W of power when it is heavily distorted. 

 

This explanation could not come at a bettter time. THIS is what I struggle with, with Helix. I have a Rush patch I setup that is a 2 amp patch - has a Hiwatt 100 for cleanish stuff and a Marshall for the riffy stuff. I have both patches balanced well in volume. I really only use my Helix to jam along to the original recordings via USB. I find that I can play along with a song like Limelight or Tom Sawyer or whatever, and the marshall tones kinda cut through the mix based on the volume I have the original recording coming through, but the second I pop over to that Hiwatt, which I had previously balanced, my guitar just POOF DISAPPEARS and I feels like I'm playing some completely soft, limp thing. This is what I can't get sorted with Helix.

10 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

... we all worry WAY too much about this $hit, lol.

Ha. Ain't that the truth. Git my Helix. Spend 20 min in a patch. And 2 hours worried about big volume knob. 

https://helixhelp.com/models/amps/guitar/

Really appreciate this @DunedinDragon as this is prob the most common frigging post around these parts! hahah. Certainly something I have battled with.

I would find this kind of challenging though; in the past you mentioned how having the knob at 12 provided that sheer level of convenience to just turn up or down instead of reaching behind FRFR speakers on the ground/ etc. Its just easier. With this new way, at 3PM...there's not alot of wiggle room and I could see there being more adjusting of patch levels in the unit, which at the end of the day is akin to going behind a FRFR speaker and messing with volumes there (as if the Helix was full on volume?) Maybe seems less convenient in the end than simply turning big vol. up or down

1 minute ago, phil_m said:

 

I believe him insofar that he thought they sounded exactly the same... But they obviously weren't exactly the same. Our ears can be deceived pretty easily. I think the main thing is that if you're going to use a modeler, you need to have at least some ability to tweak and setup your tones in the context of playing with the rest of the band. It seems to me that was the thing that caused this guy problems. I'm kind of surprised that a band the was touring worldwide would ever introduce anything into the show that hasn't been soundchecked with the whole band numerous times.

To add to this, I just saw Brit Floyd at a beautiful venue in Toronto, Canada (sony center for performing arts). Both guitarists are using digital rigs (Axe III and some boss stuff?) and it was easily the best sounding live show I heard in my life. Guitar sounds were mind blowing. Not true David Gilmour stuff, but man it was wonderful to listen to.

Just now, gunpointmetal said:

I think its fine here, it became this whole 25 page thing on pyschoacoustics and got pretty hilarious. I don't comment over there anymore after a certain speaker designer with no social skills reported literally every post I made as inappropriate for calling him out on a being a condescending douche to everyone. 

 

Being a "professional" musician in now way qualifies anyone as an authority on tone. I know a few guys around here that make their living playing music and they definitely don't have what I would consider to be a good sound.

Totally fair. The problem with this is that this guy is a f@#$^ great guitar player and has amazing amp/analog sounds haha.