stevekc

 

 

The input gains (Trim controls) on StageScape are in the analog domain (pre AD). They are analog mic pre amps (TI Burr Brown) that can be digitally controlled and stored and recalled.

Yes now that I have reviewed the M20D Block Diagram I can see that detail now 

Thanks! 

( lots of distractions lately! ;)

http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=17738

 

 

It's why I did my palm mute idea 

Details? URL Link?

 

 

The block diagram for the M20d is on the Resources page

THANK YOU  - I have been looking for this Block Diagram for a while 

gig schedule:

https://www.facebook.com/TheDentures

 

 

Boss GP-10 is a synthesizer, using COSM technology, meanings that has no TRUE HARDWARE EMULATION, but synthesizes all the sounds it produces from "existing" samples. so the user IS FORCED 2 CHOOSE FROM PREDEFINED SOUNDS N' HAS NO ABILITY 2 DEEP-EDIT-MANIPULATE THOSE SOUNDS (eg change pots, alter mag position+angle+wiring plus plus plus, etc, etc).  u cannot do these "magics" on the boss/rolland synths, can u?

The GP-10 is a stripped down VG-99 - both have Roland Hexaphonic COSM processing - no sampling is employed on  1995 Roland VG-8, 2000 VG-88, 2007 VG-99, 2014 GP-10.

read :

COSM Revisited A Fresh Look at the Amazing Modeling Technology Inside BOSS and Roland Guitar Products

By Jim Bybee

http://www.bossus.com/boss_users_group/article.php?ArticleId=1319

Here is the GUI for the 2001 Roland VG-88 - which shows the Guitar Modeling and movable pickups - this inspired Line-6 to create the Variax. 

To me the biggest difference is Variax A/D and DSP is located in the Guitar,  - Roland COSM VGuitar 13 pin systems place the A/D and DSP blocks in an external unit.   

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13.0

Suggest read the S.O.S Review of VG-99 for an overview of Roland Hexaphonic COSM processing

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec07/articles/rolandvg99.htm

 

 

Although guitar modelling is no longer a novelty, we should remember that Roland pioneered this important area of guitar processing some 12 years ago with their VG8 system, which modelled not only amplifiers, effects and speakers but also guitar pickups and pickup position.

Rick,

Thanks for the feedback ( we are neighbors - I'm in San Luis Obispo and play in a local surf band " The Dentures" 

I'm on the fence  regarding M20d vs Touchmix 16. Going to buy one this week 

As a long time Line 6 user ( and follower) -  Frankly I'll probably buy the TouchMix16 as it provides a better fit for my current gear and way I work. - for the following reasons:

* 3 year warranty from a company that provides excellent global service support network. QSC sells Service Manuals and parts to end users ( I prefer to maintain my own gear when it falls out of warranty)   (Good Luck obtaining a M20D service manual - or parts) 

* 20 channels of recording 32 bit Broadcast Wave Files at either 44.1kHz or 48kHz + 2 Track mix to attached USB 3.0 drive  ( goal is sell live show CDs  - I'll use a Samsung 840 EVO SSD) 

* More XLR  I/O that works with the 6 powered PA cabs I already own - ( no need for L6 Link ) 

* Independent 48V Phantom for all 16 XLR inputs 

*  input Gain Trim controls in the analog domain -  these important gain set elements must occur " pre A/D to  yield optimal SNR and Dynamic range for each channel -  I can label these where they need to stay) 

* I have 3 iPads myself that I can allocate as virtual control panels  =  each screen running different views of the array of controls I need instant access to during sound check. 

* I feel the Touchmix16 will be more traditional to operate and far easier for me and my band to understand (less cartoons ) and support for 10 iPads to members to adjust monitor mix with less training.

* Lower Latency ( under 1.6ms Input to Output) 

* After the Yamaha  acquisition of Line 6  - I'm NOT expecting any further Line 6 firmware updates on M20D - (2 year old products are legacy in this world  

* After weeks of research,  its annoying that a true Block Diagram Signal Flow chart is no where to be found for M20D

(Touchmix 16 Block Diagram is here on page 63 :

http://qsc.com/files/3114/1278/3382/TD-000472-00-A.pdf

I suspect this is the real  reason for the recent price drop on M20D 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TouchMix16

=======

But the M20D still offers better control:

http://youtu.be/SaqIR_npNDg

FWIW - All Variax 600 parts are available here:

http://www.fullcompass.com/brand/LN6.html?page=8&query=&categoryOrder=Bestselling

 

 

in my post i was talkin'abt guitars, not pedals...

Last I checked the title of the thread was "Variax Vs. Axe Fx Pitch Shift?""  - a discussion of best Pitch shift - so just mentioning the available alternatives  available today  - for those who want to know. 

Axe FX is not a guitar either.

 "pls correct if i'm wrong but i believe the only true hardware simulation guitar is the jtv, all others are based on sound sampling..."

 

Again - not true,  find a Roland dealer and play a Boss GP-10 ( the latest Roland "VGuitar " system) and judge for yourself.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6083.0

Bill Ruppert wrote>

Why was the Roland VG-99 so misunderstood by the public?

Was it too open ended and not pre EQed enough for the average guitar player to understand?

Was it just too deep for the average guitar player?

Did Roland them self never realize the potential of the VG-99??

I sit here staring at the VG-99 and wonder how in the world it is not at the top of the guitar players wish list.

In all my many, many years in the business I have never seen anything so misunderstood.

http://www.splawnamps.co.uk/vg-99_guitar_synth.html

http://www.seymourduncan.com/tonefiend/guitar/customize-your-caps/

http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5317/treble-bleed-circuit

B. Treble bleed capacitor 

In the second circuit, a single capacitor is used to feed some extra treble to the output to compensate for losses. A 0.56nF has been used, to give a very good tonal match at -6db. 

Bottom line - Try this:

* Record the Guitar Direct ( no microphones)

* Play the recording back, and I'm positive you will hear only 1 note per string in the current DSP Alt Tuning setting.

If not , then contact Line 6 Service ASAP.

 

 

 

Have you done any side by side comparisons between the GK+GP acoustic models vs the JTV acoustics?

Of course - but the results are not a popular topic on a Line-6 Forum ;)

(See my earlier post on this same thread on page 1) - I'm not paid to post my opinions which in 2014 are not too popular around here .

and I'm not an "Armchair theorist"  - I have receipts (and the hole in my bank account) for all gear I discuss. 

http://line6.com/support/topic/2215-variax-vs-axe-fx-pitch-shift/

 

 

 

It boils down to who has the fastest hexaphonic Guitar Modeling DSP  system in 2014  - and IMHO the Boss GP-10 is the current king

Roland GK 13 pin discussions at  Line6 Forum might be considered a waste of bandwidth 

For answers  - its best to head over to these references 

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6125.0

Boss GP-10 TOP THINGS TO KNOW
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11796.msg85343#msg85343

* Roland COSM Reference Library (Mandatory information for beginners and advanced users) 
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88.0

* Boss GP-10 Owner Reviews 
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11506.0

* * Hex Pickup Type Advice. (GK-3 vs Piezo)
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5043.msg34288#msg34288

My current favorite 13 pin Guitar - a Godin JGX-SA with GFS XTrem

http://line6.com/service/

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pls correct if i'm wrong but i believe the only true hardware simulation guitar is the jtv, all others are based on sound sampling...

Not true at all

Re Pitch Shifters - Check out the new Electro Harmonix Pitch Fork too.

more info here

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=recent

 

 

When comparing real guitars, I've found most Strats to be brighter and thinner than Telecasters. The single coil bridge pickup on a Tele can actually sound pretty meaty, whereas with Strats, it can be a struggle to fatten that up

+1 !!

a Stock Tele is "meatier" sounding than a Strat - mostly due to more coil windings on Tele Bridge PU and and the solid metal plate mounted under the bottom of the Tele Bridge PU - (which is missing on stock Strat Bridge PU's) - both contribute the the Teles fatter tone when the Guitar Volume is on "10" 

Remember the 1st Led Zep album was cut with Page playing a Tele on most tracks.

Classic "Twangy Tele" sound - is owed more to the 1 meg ohm Vol pot with .001uF "Treble Bleed" capacitor  - which was stock and used on all post "1967 style Fender Teles. Play a 1968 Fender Tele on "7" and you have a very bright tone (that gets brighter) as the guitar volume gets turned down 

IMHO - Mechanically coupled adjacent string piezo saddle crosstalk is the "limiting factor" for accurate DSP created Alt Tunings on All Variax's 

The Graphtech Saddles have a wider surface area that reacts to any vibrations - (including adjacent strings)which means Variax Alt tunings will suffer odd sounding anomalies compared to a Variax with stock factory LR Baggs piezo saddles - 

The ultimate expression of focused vibration piezo PU saddles technology is sold by RMC pickups in Berkley,CA  - this is what the high end Godins with 13 pin Synth Access employ    

To me, it appears to be a classic "cold solder joint failure" on a PCB mounted 1/4 output jack.

A good tech should be able to reflow the solder on the 1/4" output jack and implement a repair

or replace the JTV output jack assembly 

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/429493.html

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9688.0

 

Is it as simple as taking it to a local guitar shop to fix? Can't be bothered with trying to deal with returning it the online shop I bought it from if at all possible?

Thanks

Most Guitar shops I know need to guarantee their work, as a result if they are not already a pre-approved Line 6 Service Center, most Guitar shops are very hesitant to work on the Variax.

 

 

I figure I'll just replace the switch when it goes totally wonky.

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/458044.html

Line 6 50-02-9331

3 Way Toggle Switch for JTV-59

OUR PART #  50-02-9331

regardless -

not trying to throw a turd in the punchbowl, but just informing that in regards to tools for guitarists, its worth trying a Boss GP-10 and discover the lowest latency DSP Alt Tuning, and Guitar modeling in 2014   

 

 

DSP will not determine how fast the latency is on a pitch shifter.

I own them all ( VG-8 , VG-88, VG-99, GR-55,  Variax,Tyler Variax ,

and the Boss GP-10 has the lowest latency for Alt Tunings and Guitar Modeling in 2014.

We agree to disagree

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/4360100_Low_latency_audio_pitch_shifting_in_the_time_domain

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4590019&isnumber=4589950&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fstamp%2Fstamp.jsp%3Ftp%3D%26arnumber%3D4590019%26isnumber%3D4589950

http://diuf.unifr.ch/pai/people/juillera/PaperComp/Ocean/Ocean.html

My 2 cents - DSP created Alt Tunings require effort and this adds latency.

And as DocSmith43 noted above, the  Banjo or Reso models also yield a delayed output that depending on your experience and ears  - is either acceptable or not.

It boils down to who has the fastest hexaphonic Guitar Modeling DSP  system in 2014  - and IMHO the Boss GP-10 is the current king

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10782.0