DeanDinosaur

Only If I had a penny for every time I said this! POD HD isn't intended to be used with external IRS. The LINE 6 cab is not Just an IR because line 6 intentionally designed it that way. I'm not a programmer, but I've tried external IRs with HD and it's a waste of time. when and if Line 6, will ever disclose this trivial information for those who care about external IRs , I would consider. When replacing the Line 6 cab with an external IRs, more things are lost and the Line6 Cab sounds more detailed not because Line 6 IRs are better, but simply because you're trying to replace the Line 6 Amp block (that includes more than just an IR) with a mere IR. IMHO line 6 are "Not playing nice at all" for not disclosing this, but instead they leave those interested in IRs in the Dark, Just come out and tell everyone to stop trying to replace the "Cab" with and IR. I personally think, it's overkill to go through hundreds of IRs, but it's a major turn off for me the way line 6 handles this for those customers who care about IRs. Do you think they will read this board and respond to anyone here? I think not. You have a much better chance getting better response from line 6 in the gear page forum rather than the company's own website. The design is most likely intended so that similar conclusions are drawn as the the one the OP concluded. I have no doubt that the Logidy will give much better results, if the HD really allowed the replacement of just the IR and not the whole CAB. Lodigy can play much higher resolutions IRs than HD or probably even the AXE FX 2. Does anyone even know the resolution of the IR used in the HD? It's probably good enough for a multipurpose effect processor and is probably also limited so it doesn't consume precious DSP power. I would be willing to bet that if you only could replace the IR only, you would very likely experience massive improvement with the LOGIDY or any other impulse player where you can use higher resolutions IRs enough that no one will ever use the internal line 6 IRs (lower resolution) that line 6 might be compelled to update to allow higher resolutions IR if that's even possible with the limited DSP power reserved for playing IRs (you didn't think you can play 8 effects simultaneously- in theory- without compromises, did you? ;) )

If you play an instrument, you're considered a musician to most people regardless of whether you can read the sheet music or not. A professional musician earns money playing music. the term has somewhat morphed into Artist to mean those with recorded "material" (recording Artists) that is not really music (No Sheet music exists for it , so it can't be considered music, such as rap but it's still considered an Art form)

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Line 6 just reinvented the guitar amp recently and the EQ also had been already reinvented with the release of POD HD series! Are you guys suggesting that we go back to the bad old days of Hz and decibels?! You mean to tell me that there are still some folks out there using the traditional EQ measures (HZ , DB, Q) even after line6 reinvented the EQ? :o

Common wisdom is the reverb is usually last for guitar sound, but for a certain polished studio sound that's also common try a chorus after the reverb.

:lol: Thanks for the Laugh

Drummers always got most of the action because their egos are a lot closer to reality than Guitar players. Very Old Joke: how many guitar players does it take to change a light bulb? 5, one to change the bulb and 4 to watch and say " I can do it better"

A Harley has two distinguishing traits that sets it part, it's pretty loud and it vibrates :D enough to keep everyone on board happy, It's pretty hard to compete with that.

It was just an observation and I should have included myself. I didn't mean to call you anal or to hate on anyone, I was just responding to the opening post to someone who jumped ship (that wasn't you); but to be more specific, I think this dissatisfaction that I was talking about is really unique to Electric guitar players, Anal can be a good thing if you're a perfectionist but a lot of time I notice that I, as many other players, waste too much energy into finding the next thing. I'm as guilty of all that I stated about guitarists in general in my earlier post. if you play classical or acoustic, you quickly settle on a guitar and that's it. Once you play a modeler like the POD HD, and you're not playing cover, you will probably notice that regardless of the amp model you use, once you're done editing they all sound so close, that two or three amps with a few pedals will get your sound. I was much happier when I had one or two guitars, now that I have many more , like many players, too much time is lost trying out different guitars. It's very easy to get dragged into this virtual amp collections in modelers, but to jump ship from one company to another is also a bit perplexing. He indicated that he supported line 6!! Who's supporting who? If you buy a product from a company, it's not because you support the company, it's because you support your hobby or profession, no one keeps gear that doesn't work because they support the company that makes it ; another enigma associated with guitar players who use modeling software and hardware and expect companies to support them back...Why do I say this, because every time I hear what others are doing with their POD HDs, it's truly amazing how good it sounds. In a blind test, you won't be able to tell the POD from the Kemper or AXE FX so if you learn to live with the feel and learn how it reacts, you just saved yourself a couple of grands, yet some players will Jump ship. It's a personal thing I guess with some...

I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this: but it's somewhat perplexing why most guitar players are the only performers that love to complain about gear, they quickly get tired of amps or gear and love to be in constant state of looking for something else? Compare a guitar play with a Sax player. The sax player will play his entire life with one or maybe two saxophones, other musicians rent gear and they make it work, but guitar players have to be so anal and constantly looking for excuses trying to find inspiration by changing gear. If the tool doesn't work for you, it's not the tool's problem. What is so complex about the POD HD? Remove everything in the signal chain and start with an Amp and it will sound pretty damn close to the amp it models, just fiddle with the knobs, how complex is that? There are too many players out there making the POD sound like a million bucks and I'm truly not a big fan of the POD, I prefer the sound of Eleven Rack for my playing, but there are so many good and amazing sound in the POD that I also use and that's why I will never get rid of My HD 500.

It could be string buzzing against the frets, how low is your action? it also could be the pickups being very close to the strings. It's not necessarily the POD but if it is, for high gain, I personally use the Input impedance settings to minimize undesirable fizz. Go down to 32 or even 22k and see how much fizz is gone.

I think more people would be able to help if you include what software are you using to record and what driver you're selecting in the audio software. You have to select POD HD ASIO regardless what software you use so keep that in mind. My guess would be software/Driver selecting issue rather than POD HD issue.

O come on! The line 6 IR's aren't lollipop. If you can't get any of these CABs working, I have to say it's user error, there are too many excellent clips out there using those same Cab models by too many users to even contemplate counting. How about trying to figure out what you're doing wrong instead of bashing a product that countless players are successfully using day in and day out for gigging and recording! I see the DEPs as way to compensate for those who never actually played a real world 4x12 and don't know that a 4x12 can be very boomy with the amp's bass knob any where past 40%.

I've been in the Pipline, filing in time, provided with toys... :)

I say this same thing every time I read a similar thread: to my ears disabling the POD cab doesn't just disable an IR, it sounds like there are other things that get lost. Replacing with another IR never sounded right to me. Unless line 6 officially says that they support external IRs and indicate that disabling the cab can be replaced by another IR, I won't consider using it even in software. Line 6 Cab doesn't tell you whether the IR mic is off axis, on axis, etc; so line 6 cab can be a combination of several IRs as far as I know. No one from line 6 chimed in and said anything about the topic. If line 6 opens up their cabinet at the software level and give the option of replacing just the IR and not the whole cabinet, I would consider. On the other hand, I also use Eleven Rack and the cabs are called off Axis and on Axis so when I replace those with IR using software VST etc, I get amazing varieties and results but one it comes to POD HD, Line 6 cabs always sound superior to IRs because , I believe, they're not just an IR. I'm personally not complaining as, I personally think I have enough with the Line 6 cabs and don't want to bother spending countless hours auditioning other IRs, but if they ever officially support the IR thing, I would be all over it and would spend the hours to find the best possible IRs. It's really puzzling to me why they never supported external IRs yet, as it would extend the power and useablity of the PODs and take them to a new level as you are certain to stumble on the perfect speaker simulation (IR) that would suite your guitar,pickups/body, neck etc better than the internal IR that's in the LINE 6 Cabinets (not because it's better, just because it would suite the specific guitar better)

I'm actually very pleasantly surprised that this update came specifically addressing the feedback issue. It reminds me why I originally started using line 6 products. This update is a direct response to a thread that was started in this forum by those who had this problem. To come up with a solution in this short period is very good considering the issue started in the beginning of January. Here's the link to the thread: http://line6.com/support/topic/4837-dammit-same-thing-happened-to-me/

Life is too short to be arguing and insulting each other. Be that as it may, I didn't want to touch this thread to avoid getting caught in the middle but since I have personal experience with the amp in question I figured I'll share. I played a few and I have to say that they weren't user friendly amps and most of the times they were a one trick pony. I personally think the appeal came from the reliability rather than the sound as most touring bands used them because they were simply reliable. They can be cranked at full volume every night with much less concerns like other amps that would quit after a couple of nights of abuse. To get an 800 to sound good, you had to be specific in what you use, so they're truly not very versatile. Most player I knew used the BOSS overdrive (OD-1 if I remember correctly) and that made the 800 into 4x12 sound like a fire breathing monster. If you used any other distortion pedal, they would sound like junk...I'm sure you could use other drive pedals to get good results. The combos were no different and despite what you might have read from line6 literature about the clean sound of the 800 being underrated, the 800 that were floating around were either modded or who knows what, but the clean channel sounded thin and lifeless and no one I knew bought an 800 for it's clean sound. The obvious thing that most players forget is that most tube amps can be made to sound similar so you could still get good clean sound from the 800 with additional pedals or EQs if you wanted to. So how close did line 6 modeled the 800? In general I would say very close and this thread can support this conclusion. Many are having difficulty but some are getting great results, just like the real world amps. But and there's a big BUT. When you turn the Drive knob ( in line6 simulation) down all the way to the left, you get a volume boost and a thicker nice clean tone as if you switched to a completely different channel. (Try a distortion or tube drive here and you would get good results, but that's not the point). The point is that the simulation is not accurate in this respect, so something is really broken here. How do you get a volume boost when you turn the drive to minimum!! Can this be effecting the gain staging of the whole simulation? Someone from line 6 might want to chime in if they happen to read these boards. Remember that this doesn't imply that the current 800 simulation is really bad, it might be better than the real thing as what happened with the Uber if any of you remember. The original Uber simulation ( year 2010 firmware) that had an error in the simulation was brought back as the" line 6 electrik" as many demanded it as being better than fixed or corrected uber .

Real Tube amps have what they call sizzle when pushed really hard. The pod hd fizz resembles that sizzle to a certain degree. Here's what comes to mind as somethings that can be done to minimize the fizz. (you don't have to do all) 1-Lower the gain to point where you can still retain the same sound and feel or basically get rid of any unnecessary gains or boosts. 2-If your POD has input impedence (300 and 400 don't have that), try lower settings instead of auto, that's almost like low pass filter that cuts a lot high frequencies depending on how low you're willing to go 3-In the amp setting Max out the Bias setting all the way to the right (you'd be surprised how much of what you call fizz is gone with this). Moving the Bias to the right minimizes class AB distortion and more class A response 4-Lower the master volume as this will reduce the sizzle of power amp distortion

I agree, it's well above pain, but the topic of the thread is comparing a 50 watt tube amp with Line 6 L2. Somehow it moved into comparing loudness but there isn't enough information provided by Line 6 or any company for that matter to indicate the actual loudness. Listing a peak of 128 db and 800 watt Peak power in the sepcs is obviously intended to deceive people into believing that it's more than loud. Again line 6 is not the only company that does that. So if you crank your 50 watt amp and expect the L2 to match that, I personally don't think the L2 can match that loudness.

I have no doubt in my mind that the L2 will not output 128db even for one second. It might handle or give 128db for a small fraction of a second or few milliseconds and that's at one foot. The marshall measurement you provided was at a distance of one meter and that's more than Three feet!! I will also be willing to bet that a 30watt tube amp will be louder than the L2 at one foot. So the 100 Watt Marshall will not only be louder than an L2, it will be significantly louder. A 100 watt into 4x12 is really too loud for most venues except the very large ones and that doesn't make the L2 an inferior product, it's just a different product all together, but as far as loud, it's no where near the 100 watt into 4x12.

There's no Perhaps here, Peak power could be even 5 to 6 times RMS or continuous power, so L2 RMS power can even be lower than 150 watts. Wow another another healthy eater, I'm surrounded by those every where I go, can't escape destiny I guess. :mellow: forgot to mention: how they tested to get 800WAtts Peak might have been done in a creative way also to get the higher number.

This is amazing how deceptive companies can be to most musicians. L2 at 800 watts is not really 800 watts at all. It's listed as 800 watts Peak power, which means it can handle spikes of sound at a max of 800Watt. What you need to know is the continuous power handling, but unfortunately Line 6, and most other companies, don't list that. My guess is that continuous power for the L2 is between 150 watts to 200 watts based on the fact that Peak Power is usually up to 4 times "continuous power" and can be 5 or 6 times more! Actually I wouldn't be surprised if any tube amp rated 50 watts will be much louder than an L2 and no body needs to eat their hats except for the companies who think it's cute to only list the peak power when they know it's the least meaningful to how loud an amp is!

POD HDs have improved significantly with every firmware update. The amp models are very close to the originals. The most misunderstood or misused parameter from my experience with the PODs is the bass level. If there's a universal tip for the HD series (and most other modelers) it would be to remember that if any 4x12 cab is selected and the bass knob on the amp is anywhere past noon, you will struggle significantly to get a decent sound. This corresponds with real world application. An example would be Toni Iommi from black sabbath who always had the bass at zero.

True but a recorded POD HD, Ampitube, Eleven, and many other modelers are indistinguishable from a real world amp recorded in a mix with drums and bass, even for most if not all guitar players and tone snobs. In a recording many modelers can sound better or equal to the real thing. Even POD 2.0 is on more records that anyone is aware of.

As recording solutions, modelers will give the average player (not a studio engineer) the best recorded sound possible as even if they had the mic and gear it's a hit and miss using specific mics. If you find a sound that inspires you to play, then modelers are an amazing solution because they'e no longer different from the recorded sound on a CD. Since most listeners associate the guitar sound they hear on CDs with the what they expect guitars to sound like, it's a win win situation. On the other hand if you're going to spend countless hours tweaking and never finding a sound that inspires you to play, then modeling is not for you unless you enjoy the tweaking part of it and that's cool too.

You right ripper I shouldn't have said senseless because I happen to believe Mr. Cliff Chase, from Fractal the Maker of AXE FX, when he said that tone is almost 85 percent from the speakers. Using a real 4X12 cabinet for hard Rock and Heavy metal Live is not something that can be approximated by an impulse response. I have never yet ever heard even a remotely close approximation to the real oomph of a 4X12 from any modeler or impulse response. For using impulse responses, to my ears the sound of 1X12, 1x10 , or 1x8 or even 1x6 seem to be generally superior. That actually is supported by real world facts as 4x12s are not really good for studio recording and are very difficult to record but sound magnificent live.