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JTV-69S - High E String slip still an issue?


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Hi,

 

I was all set to buy a JTV-69S (Maple neck - Black).

 

Only one store in my area was stocking any JTVs and I had to wait 3 weeks

for them to come in. They only got one of the maple necked versions, and kept

it aside for me. I was there when the box was opened.

 

First impressions were the factory set action was way too high, but action can be tweaked.

I wanted to play it as a guitar first, and then try the modelling second.

 

Maybe my technique is sloppy, but it didn't take long before I had the High-E string

slip off the edge of the fretboard. Think of the hammer on, pull off section from Thunderstruck,

but using the high E instead of B.

 

I have a modified Squier strat, a Burns Brian May and an Ibanez RG5, and haven't really

had that problem before. I picked up one of the shop strats to compare and handed the

JTV to a friend who was with me. He also was getting slippage, but was specifically trying

to play stuff that might cause it. Neither of us got it on the standard strat.

Even the shop assistant said "I see what you mean". All three of us were sure we could see

that the E was too close to the edge of the fret board (maybe by 1mm).

 

Almost 3 years ago, I had the earlier JTV69 in another store and walked away because

the guitar didn't feel worth the £1000 price tag at that time.

 

I was really geared up to buy today, but just couldn't, so I walked away again.

 

The store doesn't have another (maple) model to compare, and were very non-committal

about being able to get another one in for a side to side comparision.

 

 

So what's the consensus here?

Was this just a bad one? or is this still an issue ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi,

 

I decided not to buy the guitar today.

 

I'll probably go back to the store in a few days and spend more time and maybe

compare the other other JTVs. They had just gotten them in about an hour

before I called, and had only opened one other.

 

I think they only got five JTV guitars in total, and two are 59 models, so I don't

have much to choose from.

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Hi,

 

I decided not to buy the guitar today.

 

I'll probably go back to the store in a few days and spend more time and maybe

compare the other other JTVs. They had just gotten them in about an hour

before I called, and had only opened one other.

 

I think they only got five JTV guitars in total, and two are 59 models, so I don't

have much to choose from.

IMHO, due to the JTV's very narrow nut width (narrower than most other production guitars I've seen) you are likely to run into one of two problems with the stock JTV neck:

 

1) A nut that was cut in the attempt to maximize the string spacing on a very narrow neck, which pushes the E strings a little too close to the fret ends...hence the string slippage.

 

or

 

2) String spacing more appropriate to the nut width, but resulting in spacing so close that open position chords are difficult at best, except for the smallest of hands.

 

When originally researching the JTVs, I pretty much knew that I was gonna have one of the two problems (#2 in my case), and entered into the purchase knowing that the stock neck would not remain there very long. Fortunately there are several replacement options that won't cost a fortune, and that will result in a much more playable guitar.

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IMHO, due to the JTV's very narrow nut width (narrower than most other production guitars I've seen) you are likely to run into one of two problems with the stock JTV neck:

 

1) A nut that was cut in the attempt to maximize the string spacing on a very narrow neck, which pushes the E strings a little too close to the fret ends...hence the string slippage.

 

or

 

2) String spacing more appropriate to the nut width, but resulting in spacing so close that open position chords are difficult at best, except for the smallest of hands.

 

When originally researching the JTVs, I pretty much knew that I was gonna have one of the two problems (#2 in my case), and entered into the purchase knowing that the stock neck would not remain there very long. Fortunately there are several replacement options that won't cost a fortune, and that will result in a much more playable guitar.

 

I have been watching and reading the forums ever since the first JTV models came out, and followed the early reports of the string spacing problems.

I read a few reports that it was now fixed in the 69S models of this year.

 

 

I installed a graphtec nut on my Squier back in the late 90s, as well a bunch of other upgrades - cost as much as the guitar did in the 80s ;-)

So it did cross my mind about starting to alter the JTV, but then I started to wonder what I'd do if it was the bridge positioning.

 

From my 30mins with the 69S it looked like the high E was closer to it's edge than the low E was to it's edge.

I would prefer a centered string layout. I don't know how much scope there is to shift that.

 

The other thing I hate about a factory high action is that it can hide a multitude of other problems that you

won't find until you drop the action down. Things like high frets or neck twist.

 

My friend talked me out of the new toy impulse buy and by saying if you don't get a good vibe then don't buy it.

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I have been watching and reading the forums ever since the first JTV models came out, and followed the early reports of the string spacing problems.

I read a few reports that it was now fixed in the 69S models of this year.

 

 

I installed a graphtec nut on my Squier back in the late 90s, as well a bunch of other upgrades - cost as much as the guitar did in the 80s ;-)

So it did cross my mind about starting to alter the JTV, but then I started to wonder what I'd do if it was the bridge positioning.

 

From my 30mins with the 69S it looked like the high E was closer to it's edge than the low E was to it's edge.

I would prefer a centered string layout. I don't know how much scope there is to shift that.

 

The other thing I hate about a factory high action is that it can hide a multitude of other problems that you

won't find until you drop the action down. Things like high frets or neck twist.

 

My friend talked me out of the new toy impulse buy and by saying if you don't get a good vibe then don't buy it.

I doubt its an issue of the bridge position...at least it wasn't for me. It just an overly narrow neck, oddly so if you ask me. Lotsa guys have replaced the neck with any of the drop-in Strat spec necks out there, with good results. Only wrinkle is the positioning of the neck bolts, but thats easily dealt with by any luthier who's half awake.

 

As for factory high action...that's pretty much all I've ever seen with any guitar right out of the box, regardless of make, model, or price-point...and I've been at this for 25 years. Anything you buy is gonna need SOMETHING adjusted...just the nature of the beast.

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I went back to the shop today for another check
They have a 69S, a 69 (Humbucker), and two 59's.

The 59 I played seemed fine, but I want a strat with a maple neck.
The other 69 (Humbucker) wasn't too bad, the action still being a bit higher than I'd like,
but I can't warm to the 69S which is the model I wanted.

The shop doesn't seem bothered enough to try and set the guitar up any better.
I can't fiddle with it, unless I buy it...
 

Some pics should be attached to this post.

I wonder if the fret edge dressing is causing the slip.

I thought I had taken a pic of the 5-7th frets as well, but don't have one.

 

 

 

post-62117-0-52943000-1415632768_thumb.jpg

post-62117-0-44724500-1415632780_thumb.jpg

post-62117-0-46259000-1415632790_thumb.jpg

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The "S" version 69's have a slight different neck and fret dress spec than the

earlier 69's prior to the "S" version. High-E slip was never an issue with those,

It was just a very small batch of early regular 69's. Was never an issue with the 69S.

 

Have the set-up double checked by a tech,... who knows the specs for a JTV.

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The "S" version 69's have a slight different neck and fret dress spec than the

earlier 69's prior to the "S" version. High-E slip was never an issue with those,

It was just a very small batch of early regular 69's. Was never an issue with the 69S.

 

Have the set-up double checked by a tech,... who knows the specs for a JTV.

 

Can a setup void the warranty? 

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Since it can affect function,... best bet is to take it to an authorized Line 6 service center in

your area and have them do it, that knows the specs and has access to the service info.

That way there won't be any questions about warranty.

 

I see too many of these come across my bench because someone went to an outside tech,

who set it up to Fender specs (on the 69) or Gibson specs (on the 59), it didn't work, then the

tech got in over head,.... then it ends up on my bench.

 

Save yourself time and trouble, use the Line 6 authorized service center that knows JTV's.

They can point you to one on the Customer Support line or the Customer Support ticketing

system, through your account page.

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Since it can affect function,... best bet is to take it to an authorized Line 6 service center in

your area and have them do it, that knows the specs and has access to the service info.

That way there won't be any questions about warranty.

 

I see too many of these come across my bench because someone went to an outside tech,

who set it up to Fender specs (on the 69) or Gibson specs (on the 59), it didn't work, then the

tech got in over head,.... then it ends up on my bench.

 

Save yourself time and trouble, use the Line 6 authorized service center that knows JTV's.

They can point you to one on the Customer Support line or the Customer Support ticketing

system, through your account page.

 

 

Hi,

 

So the only listed service center is a plane flight away followed by a 90 minute drive  ;-)

 

Are the detailed specs published anywhere? There is a good guitar tech I know, but

I usually do my own neck relief, intonation etc.

 

My dilemma is now, do I buy the only maple neck 69S that I am likely to be able

to physically assess before purchase (which is not great IMHO) or take a risk and

order something over the web, in the hope it came out of the factory in a better state?

 

If I buy this one from the store, and I reconfigure it myself, what if it's still slighty out?

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Does anyone think the frets in the first pic start to round off almost directly underneath the High-E ?

 

 

 


I wonder if the fret edge dressing is causing the slip.

I thought I had taken a pic of the 5-7th frets as well, but don't have one.

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Hi,

 

So the only listed service center is a plane flight away followed by a 90 minute drive ;-)

 

Are the detailed specs published anywhere? There is a good guitar tech I know, but

I usually do my own neck relief, intonation etc.

 

My dilemma is now, do I buy the only maple neck 69S that I am likely to be able

to physically assess before purchase (which is not great IMHO) or take a risk and

order something over the web, in the hope it came out of the factory in a better state?

 

If I buy this one from the store, and I reconfigure it myself, what if it's still slighty out?

Nowhere on earth is there a guitar that will be 100% to your liking (as far as set-up is concerned) right out of the box, or pulled down off the wall at a store. It simply doesn't exist...don't care what anyone says. I spent a lot of years working in music retail, setting up new guitars when they arrived...many with price tags 3x or 4x the cost of a JTV. They ALL needed something tweaked. Intonation and action were almost always in need of some adjustment. Often seemed that the more expensive the axe, the worse the "factory set-up".

 

Personally, I don't beleive that the "factory set-up" actually exists for any production guitar. "In the ballpark" (and its a biiiiiiiiiiig ballpark) is really the best you can hope for...some will probably disagree, but that has been my experience.

 

Now all that said, if you want a JTV, then get one. They are amazingly versatile, and a ton of fun. Odds are you will not have any major issues, but buy from a place with good rep for warranty coverage just in case, especially if you buy online.

 

Otherwise, any minor set-up issues can be dealt with by any competent tech...no PhD's required. Now I'm not a trained luthier, as such. I learned what I know on the job and working on my own guitars (including the JTV), and I've been doing it for many years. When I unboxed mine, after briefly plugging it it just to make sure some sounds would come out, I immediately swapped out the strings fora set of 11's, so everything needed adjusting. Action, intonation, neck relief. I set it up the same way I set up anything else I play...don't even know what the "factory specs" are. And it works just fine.

 

IMHO, these guitars are not any more fragile, or sensitive to "factory specs" than anything else I've ever played. If they were, and given the fact that guitars can be tempermental creatures to begin with, nobody would have a fully functioning JTV. This entire forum would be nothing but collection of bitter, fuming guitar players...all of 'em out a thousand bucks and pissed. But that's not the case. Lotsa praise is thrown around on here.

 

They do have their qwerks, and the technology has its limitations, but absent any electrical or firmware malfunctions, if it plays well just as a plain old guitar, then you are not terribly likely to have any major issues with the hi-tech side of this instrument. And it shouldn't need any more babying than anything else in your collection...and you certainly should not have to re-enact "Plains, Trains, and Automobiles" to have it serviced. Just my 2 cents...

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It's not the factory action/intonation setup that I'm overly concerned about. I have have installed piezos, mag pickups, push-pull pots

pre-amps, rewired for phase switching, as well as set up guitars for friends. I should be ok to handle that.

 

BUT... if a guitar has some key component misaligned, say a bridge too far forward, then you may not be able to set intonation

without relocating the bridge. (I had this on a cheap guitar I was setting up for a friend of a friend, and couldn't set the intonation

for one of the strings. I wasn't going to fill and redrill the bridge holes!)

 

I'm not saying the JTV is that bad by any means, but if the fret edge profile is too "slopey" like a "\" combined with a narrow

neck and slightly misaligned nut, then the tolerances can add up to the E string hovering just above the start of the fret slope.

A bit too much vibrato and off you fall.

 

This particular guitar in the store has a really high action. The store hasn't tried adjusting it, and I was getting a bit of string slip.

It put me off this one enough to wonder if I did buy it, could it be cured, or is it just going to always make me wish I'd bought another

one from elsewhere.

 

Look at the curve on the 3rd fret and where the E string hovers relative to it. I wish I'd taken more pics of the 5-12 frets to compare.

It just seems very close to the "\" to me.

post-62117-0-64996000-1415811720_thumb.jpg

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BUT... if a guitar has some key component misaligned, say a bridge too far forward, then you may not be able to set intonation

without relocating the bridge. (I had this on a cheap guitar I was setting up for a friend of a friend, and couldn't set the intonation

for one of the strings. I wasn't going to fill and redrill the bridge holes!)

 

I'm not saying the JTV is that bad by any means, but if the fret edge profile is too "slopey" like a "\" combined with a narrow

neck and slightly misaligned nut, then the tolerances can add up to the E string hovering just above the start of the fret slope.

A bit too much vibrato and off you fall.

 

This particular guitar in the store has a really high action. The store hasn't tried adjusting it, and I was getting a bit of string slip.

It put me off this one enough to wonder if I did buy it, could it be cured, or is it just going to always make me wish I'd bought another

one from elsewhere.

 

Look at the curve on the 3rd fret and where the E string hovers relative to it. I wish I'd taken more pics of the 5-12 frets to compare.

It just seems very close to the "\" to me.

I wouldn't worry about the bridge too much. The JTVs are NOT "cheap" in terms of build quality, imho. The 69 is basically a Strat, and as far as i'm concerned, its just as good as anything Fender has put out in the last 20 years.

 

And when you consider the fact that people will shell out $2000 or more for a brand new guitar that has been made to look as though its been stampeded by a herd of water buffalo for a "vintage" appearance, the JTVs suddenly look like a bargain at any price. They are surprisingly resonant, good sustain for a bolt-on neck.

 

Now the neck itself I hated...nut width is hideously narrow and it has a baseball bat profile (a strange design choice if you ask me) and it lasted 3 months. I got used to compound radius necks a long time ago, so it now sports a one-piece birdseye maple neck from Warmoth. But that's just a personal preferrence thing. Worst case scenario, if you absolutely hate the neck, there are options that won't break the bank and will not muck up the guitar's modeling goodies at all.

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Was this just a bad one? or is this still an issue ?

 

If you want, you can check out my recent thread on this very issue. I just bought and had to return two JTV-69s (plural, non-S versions) because of various issues. The second one had a 14 serial so according to what people are saying here, it was built in 2014, and it still had string slippage. Oddly, the first 69 I bought was built in 2013 and didn't have this issue.

 

I measured the nut and it was slightly shifted towards the treble side, so I definitely think that was the issue. I could tell the minute I pulled it out of the bag. Plus the nut looked like crap - gaps on each end, etc. This isn't what I'd expected out of such an expensive guitar.

 

This is my fourth and last try with the JTVs (three 69 and one 89) - they always seem to come screws lose, bent knobs, misaligned nuts, gashes in the paint, fret wear, or something. I've never had these issues with any other guitar I've ever had. Even my modified $179 Squier Affiniity Strat feels, looks, and plays much better than the JTVs and has since the day I bought it off the wall at Best Buy!

 

The JTVs are NOT "cheap" in terms of build quality, imho.

 

Have to vehemently disagree with you here. I've purchased at least 10-15 guitars in my life, from cheap Squiers to American strats, and I have never had a guitar that came with such cheap build quality so consistently. Not even close. This isn't even about basic setup issues either - having to replace the nut because it's misaligned and causes string slippage isn't a basic setup task!

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If you want, you can check out my recent thread on this very issue. I just bought and had to return two JTV-69s (plural, non-S versions) because of various issues. The second one had a 14 serial so according to what people are saying here, it was built in 2014, and it still had string slippage. Oddly, the first 69 I bought was built in 2013 and didn't have this issue.

 

I measured the nut and it was slightly shifted towards the treble side, so I definitely think that was the issue. I could tell the minute I pulled it out of the bag. Plus the nut looked like crap - gaps on each end, etc. This isn't what I'd expected out of such an expensive guitar.

 

This is my fourth and last try with the JTVs (three 69 and one 89) - they always seem to come screws lose, bent knobs, misaligned nuts, gashes in the paint, fret wear, or something. I've never had these issues with any other guitar I've ever had. Even my modified $179 Squier Affiniity Strat feels, looks, and plays much better than the JTVs and has since the day I bought it off the wall at Best Buy!

 

 

Have to vehemently disagree with you here. I've purchased at least 10-15 guitars in my life, from cheap Squiers to American strats, and I have never had a guitar that came with such cheap build quality so consistently. Not even close. This isn't even about basic setup issues either - having to replace the nut because it's misaligned and causes string slippage isn't a basic setup task!

Well I guess I got lucky then. Obviously our experiences differ. Sucks that you've ended up with lemmons. My guitars have run the gamut too...my first was some kind of hideous Strat knock-off (the body wasn't even real wood...some kind of laquered press-board, lol) all the way to a custom piece for which I got to choose from a whole room full of wooden slabs, the piece of quilted maple that would become the top. So I know crap when I see it. But like I said...I didn't LIKE the stock neck, but there wasn't anything "defective" about it. Its just too narrow a nut, and too round a profile for my taste. Fortunately, that part was easily remedied.

 

If I had gone thru 4 of them, I'd be pissed too.

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One thing that is considered in a set-up is the climate of the geographical location

of the end destination. Climate will have an affect on neck relief.

 

When a JTV is serviced at Line 6, the climate end destination is considered. The set-up

is done to specs, then adjusted for the end destination climate.

 

Sometimes the climate changes during shipping can have an affect. Wait 2-4 days for

it to settle-in after arrival. If it's a little out of adjustment, take it to your local Line 6

service center and have it dialed in for the last fine adjustment, that last fine tweak.

 

Also, remember that if you change the string gauges, that will change the tension and

that would require and adjustment in the set-up. It's like that with most guitars, not just

Line 6 guitars.

 

And with acoustic instruments (guitars, violins and such), climate change is even

more critical, and has more affect on the instrument.

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If you want, you can check out my recent thread on this very issue. I just bought and had to return two JTV-69s (plural, non-S versions) because of various issues. The second one had a 14 serial so according to what people are saying here, it was built in 2014, and it still had string slippage. Oddly, the first 69 I bought was built in 2013 and didn't have this issue.

 

I measured the nut and it was slightly shifted towards the treble side, so I definitely think that was the issue. I could tell the minute I pulled it out of the bag. Plus the nut looked like crap - gaps on each end, etc. This isn't what I'd expected out of such an expensive guitar.

 

This is my fourth and last try with the JTVs (three 69 and one 89) - they always seem to come screws lose, bent knobs, misaligned nuts, gashes in the paint, fret wear, or something. I've never had these issues with any other guitar I've ever had. Even my modified $179 Squier Affiniity Strat feels, looks, and plays much better than the JTVs and has since the day I bought it off the wall at Best Buy!

 

 

 

Have to vehemently disagree with you here. I've purchased at least 10-15 guitars in my life, from cheap Squiers to American strats, and I have never had a guitar that came with such cheap build quality so consistently. Not even close. This isn't even about basic setup issues either - having to replace the nut because it's misaligned and causes string slippage isn't a basic setup task!

 

Yep. Read through your thread.

It sounds like a factory QA thing.

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One thing that is considered in a set-up is the climate of the geographical location

of the end destination. Climate will have an affect on neck relief.

 

When a JTV is serviced at Line 6, the climate end destination is considered. The set-up

is done to specs, then adjusted for the end destination climate.

 

Sometimes the climate changes during shipping can have an affect. Wait 2-4 days for

it to settle-in after arrival. If it's a little out of adjustment, take it to your local Line 6

service center and have it dialed in for the last fine adjustment, that last fine tweak.

 

Also, remember that if you change the string gauges, that will change the tension and

that would require and adjustment in the set-up. It's like that with most guitars, not just

Line 6 guitars.

 

And with acoustic instruments (guitars, violins and such), climate change is even

more critical, and has more affect on the instrument.

 

I don't think climate affects the placement of a nut, nor adds 3mm to the action.

I think that's down the assembly line worker.

 

I found an online store that has offered to inspect a 69s before shipping, so I'm

considering that option.

 

I see too many of these come across my bench because someone went to an outside tech,

who set it up to Fender specs (on the 69) or Gibson specs (on the 59), it didn't work, then the

tech got in over head,.... then it ends up on my bench.

OK, so the JTVs shouldn't be set up like a fender? Where are the specs published?

Bear in mind there seems to be only one authorised service center in all of the UK

and it's a plane flight way.

 

What is the fret board edge to string distance?.

Is the nut meant to have a gap at the sides?

Should the strings be centered or shifted to the high E?

How much clearance should there be between the E strings and their respective fret edge profile?

 

I'll ask them to check all of the above.

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Before I order online, I went to the local store for another "am I imagining it" test.

Compared the JTV-69 (rosewood humbucker) vs the JTV-69S (maple), both W130x serials

 

The rosewood one played ok, the maple one doesn't play so well.

The maple one high E is definitely closer to the edge by a small fraction.

It's quite obvious in person, as you get a up close 3d inspection.

 

Pics attached.

post-62117-0-31078900-1416416231_thumb.jpg

post-62117-0-87226500-1416416247_thumb.jpg

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Before I order online, I went to the local store for another "am I imagining it" test.

Compared the JTV-69 (rosewood humbucker) vs the JTV-69S (maple), both W130x serials

 

The rosewood one played ok, the maple one doesn't play so well.

The maple one high E is definitely closer to the edge by a small fraction.

It's quite obvious in person, as you get a up close 3d inspection.

 

Pics attached.

A pic will only tell part of the story of course, and the real test is getting your hands on them. Either they play well and you like them, or not...but neither of those pics appear to show anything grossly misaligned. E strings seem to be pretty evenly spaced from the fret ends to me.
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Climate won't affect the nut, but it will affect neck relief, and

therefore the action as well.

 

Relief, action, tremolo tension,... it's a balancing act of tensions

and alignments.

 

I totally agree, but it won't add much more than a mm.

The bridge posts not being screwed down and left too high accounts for the 3-5mm difference.

 

Where are the specs for all the fine setup detail published?

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I totally agree, but it won't add much more than a mm.

The bridge posts not being screwed down and left too high accounts for the 3-5mm difference.

 

Where are the specs for all the fine setup detail published?

Closely guarded secret... kept in the same kind of vault as the Coca Cola formula, no doubt...you'll put him ou of a job, lol.

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A pic will only tell part of the story of course, and the real test is getting your hands on them. Either they play well and you like them, or not...but neither of those pics appear to show anything grossly misaligned. E strings seem to be pretty evenly spaced from the fret ends to me.

 

Do you not think the gap between low E and edge on the rosewood pic is pretty obviously less than that of the maple one?

The action on the maple is much higher (about 1.5 mm at the twelfth) so the angle of the camera and parallax may effect the pic.

In your hands the maple one is high E biased, and the rosewood one is centered.

 

But yeh, the two guitars feel different - then again rosewood v maple and action would anyway.

 

 

Anyone ever seen the specs that psarkissian mentions are different from a fender strat ideal setup?

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I totally forgot that the fret dressing was a big contributor to the issue. Makes a lot of sense.

 

That's what I was getting at. The overall build of the guitar felt ok - solid enough.

But a narrow neck + offcenter nut biased to the high E + a fraction too much slope on the fret edge dressing = plink

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:

 

The store ordered in another black maple 69S which arrived today.

It was still sealed in the box when I got there, so I was there to see it opened.

 

Soon as as I held it up to look at the string alignment, the model selector knob cap fell off!

 

At least that can be fixed with a bit of glue, but hmm, QA control?

 

The good news is that the strings are perfectly centred, and the factory action and

tuning were passable. The fret dressing seems ok, and I had to pull the high E to force

it off the edge of the fret, so I think the nut/neck is ok.

 

I'll have to spend a bit of time doing a decent set up, but at least this one seems to

be in a reasonable shape out of the box.

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Knob, hmm,...

I'll get on someone about that.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Just the chrome cap of the model selection knob.

I glued it back on with a flexible adhesive rather than superglue.

 

Otherwise I haven't spotted any other problems.

 

I dropped the action using the bridge height posts, maybe more than I should initially, as I'm getting a bit of low E and A string buzz.

But I usually trade action vs buzz. Intonation out of the box was pretty good too. Only the low E was a few cents off.

 

I have to spend a bit more time getting to a bridge setup that I like, but so far I am much happier

with this replacement model.

 

That other one is still hanging up in the shop ;-)

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Low-E's and A's typically need more dialing-in on intonation

than other strings. Just the physics of strings.

 

Sometimes it's just a matter of playing the thing. I'll play it, leave it,

come back a couple days later and do it again, until I find that one

that grabs me.

 

And sometimes it's just dialing-in the one you've got until it's right

where you want it.

 

 

Rock on!!!

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