Please ensure Javascript is enabled for purposes of website accessibility Jump to content

L3t popping issues when thumping acoustic


Recommended Posts

Hi there, I'm a new owner of an L3t and I'm noticing that when I use my acoustic to do percusive stuff with like thumping the body to produce a "kick" sound the speaker pops.  Almost likes it's over driven or can't handle the quick signal the thump produces.  I've tried the different settings for the speaker and even dialed back the low end but I desire that low end to be there when I'm playing anyway so I don't want to miss out on it.  I'm wondering if anyone has experienced this or if there could be a problem with the speaker.  I actually purchased an L2t from Guitar Center brand new and that one had the same issue so I returned it for the L3t hoping it would fix the issue but it's still there.  I'm really wanting this speaker to work out for me but if this is the way they're made it just won't work out.  Any feedback would be much appreciated!  And if you have an L3t or L2t and can try it out yourself to see if yours does it that would be great too.  I just basically slap the body over the soundhole to get the desired thump.  Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm playing a Gibson J185 with piezo pickup but it also happens with my Godin Jazz with peizo as well.  It has never happened with my Fishman Soloamp or Bose L2 or EV ZLX12P's.  More than any of those units I want the L3T to work the most because of it's functionality and power.  Battery on the guitars are fine as they were just changed on both guitars.  I'm going to test run it again tomorrow night and will see if I can have a sound guy fill me in on what he thinks it may be. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you check again, make sure the LED's above the input GAIN knobs are not turning red, which is indicative that the signal is too hot. Set the gain while thumping your guitar and keep it in the green. Then pull the MASTER Volume knob on the back panel up or down accordingly to set your overall level.

 

Also, start with the "Acoustic Modeling" and the effects  turned OFF as this adds body to your tone but can get accentuated with the Thump from your technique. Add it in when you are sure your levels are good.

 

Hope this helps. Please report back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Joe, so I've tried it in a few venues.  Still getting the popping sound.  If you have an email I can send you a video I did that I tried to show the sound I'm getting.  I asked another sound guy and he said it sounds like the woofer is not being able to process the thump of the guitar properly.  The light never goes red.  It does blink orange but honestly there are times when I need to blast the speaker because I'm playing in front of 300-400 people so playing quietly would probably solve the popping problem but I bought the speaker so I could use something that blasts and at 1400 watts this sounded like a great option.  Other than the popping I love it.  Also, when I play a kick drum sample through it at loud volume it's fine...no popping.  Only when I thump the guitar.  Almost like the piezo might be causing it but it doesn't happen with my other speakers so I'm at a loss.  I just ordered the L3s to see if maybe the cross over would absorb the pop/thump but I won't always cart the L3s around....only when I'm doing bigger gigs.  But if you have an email or if I can figure out how to post on here I will send it.  Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok here is the link.  I turned the speaker up quite a bit so you could hear it instantly.....the video doesn't do it a lot of justice though because of the quality of the iphone speaker but hopefully you'll hear what I'm talking about.  At a normal volume I'm still finding the popping.  Let me know your thoughts.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it doesn't happen with the drum but does with the guitar, I still have to point the finger at the guitar preamp.

 

See if you can make it happen with another amplifier.

 

AND also plug the guitar into a mixing board...have someone look at the meters and gain lights there. I'll bet you see the gain slam very high momentarily.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few things.

 

You seem to be controlling the volume of the speaker from the guitar's channel knob on the side panel mixer. (I can't tell if you go all the way behind the speaker in the video). That is not the preferred method of going about it. Think of the side panel GAIN controls as preamps on a regular mixer, not the volume faders. That is what the Master Volume knob is for on the back.

 

It does blink orange but honestly there are times when I need to blast the speaker because I'm playing in front of 300-400 people so playing quietly would probably solve the popping problem

 

Set the side-panel GAINS such that at your loudest playing, they ALWAYS stay GREEN.

 

You make no mention of whether or not the "Acoustic Modeling" or EFX are engaged. As mentioned before, it does cause your low end to be pronounced, so if  you haven't tried a lower setting, that might help alleviate the problem.

 

Is the EQ of your guitar's preamp set flat?

 

Does the popping happen at all distances from the speaker? The low frequencies may be feeding back at close proximity (and this may be due to too much channel GAIN). You do mention that when the volume is lowered it helps a little.

 

I notice you have two inputs going into the side-panel mixer. Are you going directly from the guitar into Channel ONE of the L3t? Check to make sure the "Stereo Link Switch" is not engaged. If your EQ settings are set a particular way on Channel TWO, they will affect Channel ONE (and then be summed with the use of one speaker), if the switch is engaged.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Kick sample has a much smaller dynamic range even thought eh "loudness" may be the same.  The first thing to try is to turn way down and see if the problem ever goes away.  If it does then (assuming you don't have an unlikely hardware issue) then you are either clipping the input or less likely driving the speaker out of the gap.

 

Try playing a recording of your guitar through and see if it causes the same problem.  That will give us a clue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My money's on clipping in either the guitar preamp or overdriving the speaker input to clipping.

 

To the OP: Have you tested your system while thumping other guitars? After all, it's a guitar, not a drum, so the built-in preamp isn't designed for the extreme dynamic range of the thumps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok so I tested it today thouroughly and I found that if the level (channel one) is turned way down to wear it's supposed to only be in the green (literally all the way down) it still blinks orange at the thump of the guitar.  The orange on the channel is not what seems to be triggering the pop.  However the light on the back panel of the main volume, when that blinks orange the pop occurs.  My studio engineer told me it sounds like every time the limiter is activated the pop occurs, which he said is a good thing so the speaker itself doesn't get damaged.  Does that make sense? 

 

To note, I don't use any acoustic modeling on the guitar.  And yes, I've tried other guitars with the piezo pickup doing the same thing.

 

So if I were to play at low volume there would be no issue at all but my problem is I have to push the speaker to sometimes perform for up to 400 or more people (which is why I bought this 1400 watt speaker) so the popping sounds like it will inevitably be there unless the L3s takes care of it, which I believe it will.  That test will be done next week when the L3s comes in. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It makes sense that the limiter is causing the pop, which points to the guitar signal slamming much too hot as you thump it. Normally, a PA system doesn't have to deal with the guitar thumps or drum mikes. (Any PA that's expected to handle drums is usually large enough to be transported in a truck.)

 

You might run some tests with an outboard compressor or limiter between the guitar and the speaker system. Naturally, you need to try different units to find one that will limit without audible artifacts (i.e. the pop).

 

If that isn't feasible, then your only choice may be more speakers: you may be asking too much of a single speaker to produce the loudness you want.

 

PS: The wattage rating doesn't tell you how many decibels (loudness) you get from a speaker system, nor does it tell you how the system will behave with a sudden too-hot signal peak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

PS: The wattage rating doesn't tell you how many decibels (loudness) you get from a speaker system, nor does it tell you how the system will behave with a sudden too-hot signal peak.

 

Correct.  "Loudness" is a perception based on "average" sound pressure levels.  The electronics are limited by "peak" levels.

 

So in this case it appears that your peak-to-average signal is too high for the speaker to reproduce the average level you desire.  What you need to do is reduce your peak levels from your source.  It looks like you are simply overdriving the inputs of the speaker and probably the outputs of your preamp by thumping.  This probably wouldn't be happening if you were micing the guitar as a microphone wouldn't be fast enough to let the transients pass through.

 

So reducing the peak input will probably allow you to turn up the average loudness level by a pretty big factor. Could be 2- 4 times as loud as it now is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What he said.

 

A compressor limits peaks but not all compressors will be fast enough to catch the thumps; you'll have to try a few with a fast attack. Many limiters are good at catching and controlling peaks without creating nasty artifacts (like pops, clicks, etc).

 

A good choice might be the FMR Audio RNC compressor. I've used these in the studio but haven't tried one for a situation like yours. For under $200 it's small and it doesn't color the sound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...