(All) JTV Models Needs a Big Improvement

[anto99]

I like a lot the concept of JTV (especially as part of the Dream Rig system), but the models needs a big improvement.

If you compare a model with a magnetic real pickup the difference is embarrassing.

Embarrassing, not in terms of similarity with the single real guitar modeled, but compared to the overall harmonic complexity of any real magnet.

 

 

This is evident with clean and crunch amp settings: you don't need a real vintage $50.000 Stratocaster to prove it, it's enough do an a/b test with the onboard real pickups of the JTV.

This is evident with a real good tube amplifier, but also with the Pod HD...embarrassing evident. 

 

The whole character of all models results poor, nasal, honky, compressed, it lacks in harmonics, it seems toys....

 

If you go to jam with some friends with your JTV you can save your reputation maybe only in an ultra high gain sound context, otherwise a Squier will be enough to make you feel as a naive kid with a cheap toy....

 

moreover the pots behave is far from the real ones (the way it cleans up...)

 

To summarize I think today amp and effects modeling is a lot more plausible than guitar modeling

 

I wish Line6 will improve it soon (a whole new firmware together with a new whole new firmware for Pod HD)

[phil_m]

Sounds like perhaps you have an issue with your guitar, because, honestly, I can tell very little difference between the pickups and the models a lot of the times. Actually, there have been a few times when I've been playing the Spank model and had the battery die, so that the guitar reverts to the magnetic pickups, and I didn't notice it until I looked down and saw the LED on the model knob was off. And I don't play high gain at all. Quite the opposite, really.

 

I'm thinking that perhaps you should try reinstalling the firmware on your JTV.

[stumblinman]

I actually prefer the modeled Les Paul to the standard JTV 59 mags.. They are still not as good as my LP with 57 Classics, but if I can flip a switch and go from quack to crunch and be 90% there, I'm good.

[anto99]

Sounds like perhaps you have an issue with your guitar, because, honestly, I can tell very little difference between the pickups and the models a lot of the times. Actually, there have been a few times when I've been playing the Spank model and had the battery die, so that the guitar reverts to the magnetic pickups, and I didn't notice it until I looked down and saw the LED on the model knob was off. And I don't play high gain at all. Quite the opposite, really.

 

I'm thinking that perhaps you should try reinstalling the firmware on your JTV.

Now I have a JTV69, but last year I had also a JTV59, the thing was the same, so this is not a problem of my particular guitar.

I'm not a pro, but I play guitar since 25 years and in the past I was enough into high quality analog gear, enough to recognize a good sound

https://www.youtube.com/user/anto7199/videos?spfreload=10

 

I've found the spank model horrible, and when I use the magnetic single coil of JTV I feel a lot of improvement in terms of harmonics and soul (while the model sounds sterile, nasal, poor); moreover, compared with a real Fender with Fat '50 pickups, the spank model sounds synthetic, without quack, and it doesn't cleans up as the real one, absolutely not. I don't find any Strat feel on it.

[phil_m]

Now I have a JTV69, but last year I had also a JTV59, the thing was the same, so this is not a problem of my particular guitar.

I'm not a pro, but I play guitar since 25 years and in the past I was enough into high quality analog gear, enough to recognize a good sound

https://www.youtube.com/user/anto7199/videos?spfreload=10

 

I feel the spank model horrible, and when I use the magnetic single coil of JTV I feel a lot of improvement in terms of harmonics and soul (while the model sounds sterile, nasal, poor); moreover, compared with a real Fender with Fat '50 pickups, the spank model sounds synthetic, without quack, and it doesn't cleans up as the real one, absolutely not. I don't find any Strat feel on it.

 

I actually made clips comparing the 2.0 Spank model to an American Standard Strat with Fat 50 pickups a while ago, and when I put them up here, only about half of the people guessed which clips were the real thing compared to the Variax. So in other words, the success rate of the guess wasn't any better than people just flipping a coin. So I don't quite know why it's not working for you, but if it's not, I guess it's not the right product for you.

[anto99]

I actually made clips comparing the 2.0 Spank model to an American Standard Strat with Fat 50 pickups a while ago, and when I put them up here, only about half of the people guessed which clips were the real thing compared to the Variax. So in other words, the success rate of the guess wasn't any better than people just flipping a coin. So I don't quite know why it's not working for you, but if it's not, I guess it's not the right product for you.

maybe I'm in the part of the coin which recognize the real one, and I wish to leave this part in the next firmware (but I've seen on the web my claim about the spank model is not the only one, and I don't want to downgrade to 1.9 version of firmware)

[Charlie_Watt]

Very strange.  The models sound great on my 69S - I like them better than the mags because they are dead quiet.  No noise pickup.  Not so with any mag pickups including the  ones on my JTV.

[GLP122751]

maybe I'm in the part of the coin which recognize the real one, and I wish to leave this part in the next firmware (but I've seen on the web my claim about the spank model is not the only one, and I don't want to downgrade to 1.9 version of firmware)

i agree with you 

[GLP122751]

oh and I got a-2 rating (like I really care) by some bully because he just couldn't respect my opinion about how this guitar lacks warmth and soul especially the spank and tele models

[DarrellM5]

There, I helped bring your rating back up.  Anyone should be able to state their opinion.

[cruisinon2]

I love these threads.

 

"JTVs suck."

 

"No they don't."

 

"Well my ears must be better than yours then."

 

"I agree, and when I said the same thing, somebody voted down my post. But I don't care...yet here I am, going out of my way to point out just how much I don't care."

 

Ugh....

[clay-man]

pretty sure the best ears around here are the "ears" they used to capture the convolution of the guitars they modeled.

 

The strat sound doesn't sound synthetic or fake, period. The problem is the specific strat they modeled. I highly doubt Line 6 would botch capturing the convolution of a model out of all the other models. They most likely A/B test the guitars after going through the sensor process to make sure everything went correctly.

[Allan66]

Why do we have to believe that one person is right and one wrong?  I consider myself a malt whisky connoisseur.  There are some I really like and some I do not.  I have friends that cannot tell the difference.  Because 1 person cannot tell the difference between a modelled guitar and another can, it does not mean that the instrument or the person is at fault.  The key may be in anto99's assertion that for 25 years there has been an appreciation of good analogue gear.  This will undoubtedly mean that the ear is lonely tuned to what sounds right and what does not.  For others - myself included - I have not had this background and so my ear will not detect the subtle differences that add up to create dissatisfaction.   Of one thing I am sure, and that is that the present modelling techniques will change as will the ones after that and with each new iteration, more people will be drawn into the acceptability envelope.  Great discussion, by the way.

[katiekerry]

One thing I have noticed is that while your playing the instrument there is  a big difference, Between the actual guitars and the modeling but once recorded its harder to tell the difference.  I think allot of people are concerned with the playability factor, the way the guitar reacts to the touch.  Not so much that it sounds like a strat or what ever when recorded..  And I think that is unfair to judge the variax that way.  You can take two american made strats or les pauls what ever model you prefer, and compare them they will not be the same. There will be nuances for every instrument modeled or not that trickle through in your playing.  Some guitars make you play better cause they inspire through the tones that you are getting or the ease of playablity through proper set up..  I have owned parker flys all the way down to cheap strat knock offs.   And probible my most favorite guitar I have ever owned was a cheap jackson dinky it just felt like it was made for me sadly though I got rid of it for a overpriced high end guitar cause it was supposed to be better..  I guess what I am getting if you don't like the variax get rid of it move on.  But don't say its trash ( that is just personal preference or taste).  Go out and practice some of the best players have scrap built monstrosities nothing nearly as nice as a variax.  Be grateful they didn't have this technology even 10 years ago..  we have it so easy through modeling..

[malnack]

I think the flexibility of the JTV far outweighs the criticisms in this thread. I suppose if you are a solo performer where your guitar is the only instrument, you might have an argument. But in a real world band or recording environment (in a full mix), any tonal deficiencies are going to be hard to detect.

 

I like that in our typical 11 song set I can have 11 distinctly different tones if I want to. Add to that the flexibility of the DT-25 and the HD500 and you have options that most non-touring bands can't afford to employ. I've got a Lonestar Strat and a Les Paul and while I do notice tonal differences between those and the JTV models, I much prefer having a single instrument on stage.

 

As for the Spank tone, someone recently posted one that is far better IMO than the one that is in the 2.1 firmware.

 

To each his own:)

[fr0sty]

I agree with the OP for the most part and second what katiekerry said.  When playing my amps live, the variax tones by and large ho hum. Not all, but most. Same with the alt tuning, but that is slightly worse for me than ho hum.   My main reason for buying the variax was to recording.  That that regard, it's much more usable for me. 

 

The only time I use the variax is for recording.  When playing for pleasure, my other magnetic pickup guitars always get chosen.

[BigBob-Irwin]

Before I ordered my JTV59 I was not sure that I would like the modeling the shop I ordered from said if I did not like it they would arrange a pickup and money towards a Les Paul with e-Tune anyway the JTV arrived and plugged it in listened to the Magnetics pickups first they were very Les Paul like and then switched to the modeled LP and could hardly tell the difference I found the spank models a bit thin but the rest were fine I downloaded the bank that someone made on here that was more like V1.9 and thought they were better. Then curiosity got the better of me and decided to flash 1.9 into the JTV but this failed 3/4's through and left me with distorted low strings so I put back to factory default and did flash upgrade back to 2.10 and noticed afterwards that the spank models sounded a lot better especially the in-between sounds so maybe try and re flash your Variax.

 

Anyway when I started playing slide with different tunings I was impressed and decided to go the whole way and got the DT25 and Pod 500x

[zedopaido]

Well for you guys that like using the mag pick ups on your Jtv please give the Dimarzio area a try.

I changed mine and is night and day difference and noiseless Sweet sweet sounding. Dimarzio  Area 58, 67, 61 

Now if you not happy about how your electric models sound distorted give firmware 1.71 a  real go and see if you have fun, record it in order to be able to hear the difference. Not having said that, give 011, 012 gauge a go on the old firmware, yep it could be fun.

Good luck

[zaphodboy]

When I first got my JTV a musician friend, who is VERY discerning by the way, came to see one of our gigs. At half time he made a bee line for me to tell me he was blown away by the tonal variations I was getting. As if that wasn't good enough, when I went into acoustic mode for a couple of tunes in the second half his eyes nearly popped out of his head!

 

Now I know this is not entirely down to the JTV as the HD500 is doing a lot of the work but still I maintain that in a live situation virtually nobody will tell the difference between a JTV and an (insert favourite axe here). Sure, if you are scrutinizing the sound on it's own there may be slight differences but that's not really what the guitar was designed for.

[maxnew40]

_{I don't see or hear what you describe with my JTV.}

 

_{I play in a 60s and 70s cover band and the other guitarist is playing with vintage a Fender tube amp and  Germino plexi clone and nice fender and PRS guitars. He is actually jealous of the Fender Twin and Strat on the bridge pickup tone that I am getting with JTV, POD, L2m system. The guy is tube and vintage gear purist and he admits that my system sounds amazing.}

 

_-Max

[phil_m]

When I first got my JTV a musician friend, who is VERY discerning by the way, came to see one of our gigs. At half time he made a bee line for me to tell me he was blown away by the tonal variations I was getting. As if that wasn't good enough, when I went into acoustic mode for a couple of tunes in the second half his eyes nearly popped out of his head!

 

Now I know this is not entirely down to the JTV as the HD500 is doing a lot of the work but still I maintain that in a live situation virtually nobody will tell the difference between a JTV and an (insert favourite axe here). Sure, if you are scrutinizing the sound on it's own there may be slight differences but that's not really what the guitar was designed for.

 

I've had similar reactions. I played at a my church a few weeks ago, and I was using my JTV with the HD500. I used the banjo model for one song, and I had several people come and talk to me afterwards. The one guy was a banjo player himself, and he thought that I was triggering a pre-recorded banjo track. You gotta love that.

[scotterp]

Just read this quote today:

 

"The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!"

 

Brian Cox 

 

 

This is not aimed at anyone in particular - just a statement I found interesting given all of the opinions expressed in this thread (and on the internet in general!!)

 

Cheers everyone!

[fr0sty]

The banjo and sitar models are standouts for me.  I have noticed that the modeled guitars, in general, sound better through amp farm than my actual amps. I wonder if they relied on line 6 amp modeling when developing the varaix, or if actual amps were used too?

 

 

I've had similar reactions. I played at a my church a few weeks ago, and I was using my JTV with the HD500. I used the banjo model for one song, and I had several people come and talk to me afterwards. The one guy was a banjo player himself, and he thought that I was triggering a pre-recorded banjo track. You gotta love that.