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which way to go dt or jtv

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Guys I am in a quandary. I have a pod hd 500x and now I am in the market for the next step to getting the dream rig. I can now get either dt 25 or a jtv . I play in a cover band which the pod has help my sound vastly. But I have never owned a valve amp and would like that authentic sound. But I also play some slide and would benefit from the jtv tuning and acoustic and dobro capabilities. But what do I choose. Can't buy both tried that conversation with the wife it ended really fast.lol

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I had an hd500 for a year before adding the DT25. The combination of those two is just awesome. I can't believe how great the DT25 sounds.

 

I was lucky enough a good a year later to get a JTV 69 on sale (they are even at a better price now). I like it and it is great to switch from a Tele to Strat to LP etc on a patch by patch basis. In the end though, I also have a PRS McCarty and if the jtv disappeared tomorrow I would still have a great guitar and an awesome pod/amp combination. If you love your main guitar like I do then I would get the DT25

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Thank you for your opinion it is much valued and yes I do love my my guitars, I use both an Epiphone dot for the blues and slide work and an Epiphone Zakk Wylde Les Paul for the rock stuff, although I could use an open tuned acoustic or dobro sound for some of the songs we do as they are a bit old school. I currently use a Marshall mg50dfx amp but I have been toying with the idea of a valve amp for ages as I have never owned one, my bass player just bought his first valve amp and ironicaly he has gone from line6 LD to a Marshall head and cab and his sound has changed dramaticaly for the better.   My next question is do you know if can I still run the pod through the pa as well as the dt when it is running the l6 link .As that is how I am set up at the moment and quite like the soundscape I have by doing this.

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If you're in a cover band like I was, I think the versatility of the JTV with its electrics, acoustics and alt tunings is the perfect swiss army knife. The DT25 although excelent isn't that much of a step forward, as the POD covers the "amp" section

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I would go DT25. You won't believe the improvement in tone.

You are allready playing all the things in you band with the guitars you have,

The JTV is more ove a convenience thing than improvement on your sound.

Still, go get the JTV as soon as you can after getting the DT25

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IMHO you should go for the JTV.  I have both and if I had to choose, well its no contest, JTV hands down.  The DT is great but I can do so much more with the JTV and the 500 straight to the PA and I love the stereo effects and dual amp things that just don't translate as well to a mono amp even with tubes.  If you already like your tones with your current setup, stick with it and expand your range with the JTV. 

 

If you do go with the DT, expect to have to rework all your patches.  You probably won't be able to go straight to the board from the POD because of how the output mode is forced when using L6 link, it just won't sound right.  You would have to use the cab simulated direct out from the DT instead.

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...I can do so much more with the JTV and the 500 straight to the PA and I love the stereo effects and dual amp things that just don't translate as well to a mono amp even with tubes....

 

+1

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IMO, get the DT first. It will improve the tone of your rig greatly. The JTV is a great tool but it will add versitity to your rig, might improve the tone a bit but I doubt a ton. The DT will improve the tone right outta the box. And with the HD500x and the DT you have built it fail safe, if either fails at a show you use the other standalone.

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I started with a POD 500, then about 6 months later added a DT-25. Then about a year later I added a JTV59P. I'd go for the JTV next.

 

During a set, I use about 6 different guitar models including an acoustic model and use one extra tuning mode. The only downside with using the acoustic models in a Dream Rig setup is that getting a good acoustic tone out of the DT25 can be challenging. I've added a second amp on stage for just that purpose.

 

I haven't tried one, but I'd also suggest you investigate the L2 or L3. Some people in this forum have had great success with them as well.

 

To top it off, I just added a Fishman Triple Play to my JTV and it is a lot of fun. Now in addition to the guitar models, I can trigger keyboard and synth sounds at the same time. The 2nd amp that I use also serves as the amp for the Triple Play sounds.

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How much would I need to re work my patches if I went for the dt is it just a matter for fiddling as I am cool with that or would I have to completely re work them . Also as I understand it the cab settings don't exist when plugged in to the dt.

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How much would I need to re work my patches if I went for the dt is it just a matter for fiddling as I am cool with that or would I have to completely re work them . Also as I understand it the cab settings don't exist when plugged in to the dt.

 

Likely a good bit. When using the DT you will need to use the "Pre" settings on the POD. The effects would be the same. But the DT is still gonna sound a bit different which is likely going to make you want to adjust the patches too. I keep seperate ones for the DT and for going direct when I record.

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I would go with the DT. PA's vary wildly from venue to venue and I wouldn't trust a sound man in every locale to mix it right. Control your tone and get an amp that can be used with or without a Pod and you will still sound great. The JTV is nice, but in the end a quality amp will do more for you.

 

 

Guys I am in a quandary. I have a pod hd 500x and now I am in the market for the next step to getting the dream rig. I can now get either dt 25 or a jtv . I play in a cover band which the pod has help my sound vastly. But I have never owned a valve amp and would like that authentic sound. But I also play some slide and would benefit from the jtv tuning and acoustic and dobro capabilities. But what do I choose. Can't buy both tried that conversation with the wife it ended really fast.lol

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I have a JTV, POD HD Pro, DT 25 Head and an L3t.  The sound from the POD into the L3t is as good to my ear as with the DT25, which is why I have made the decision to sell my DT25.  I love my JTV59 - it is the guitar I play most these days, at the expense of a PRS and EBMM JP6.

 

Therefore, if I were in your position, I would choose the JTV and play 'direct' to PA with the POD.  Yes, PA's can vary wildly, but if you're micing up a DT25 then that will be subject to similar variability in the PA.  If you want the most versatile solution, the JTV is the way to go (alternate tunings, acoustics etc, etc..)

 

If you do decide to go the DT25 route and are in the UK, feel free to contact me ;-)

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I use my own pa as I play in local pubs. I am the sound guy lol. The other question is head and cab or combo .

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but if you're micing up a DT25 then that will be subject to similar variability in the PA.  

 

The DT25 has DI out, so no mic needed if you wanted it in the PA. Still true you are subject to some variation of the PA but not as much change as putting 57 in front of it. Unless your playing a stadium you are not likely to need the DT in the PA, it's suprisingly loud, althought I do run mine that way just to spread the sound out a bit.

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Head or combo ? As I am leaning towards dt I am struggling to take the step that would make my favourite guitars redundant

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Head with a Cab has the Closed back cab, The combo has an open back. Basically up to which you like the sound of better. The combo can be expaned with cab as well if you wanted both. The Combo weights in a around 50lb so the head cab might be bit easier on the back.

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Ok thank you for your opinions every one I am very grateful for the input. It is hard for me to try the guitar and or the amp in a shop my nearest dealer is 60 miles away. So I am going to be ordering from the net . I think the amp has swung it slightly as I have never owned a valve amp I feel I need to get that first. So thanks to everyone who has been involved in the discussion.

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To top it off, I just added a Fishman Triple Play to my JTV and it is a lot of fun. Now in addition to the guitar models, I can trigger keyboard and synth sounds at the same time. The 2nd amp that I use also serves as the amp for the Triple Play sounds.

May I ask how you have all that configured? The FTP has to be connected to a laptop, right? So you take the audio out from that and plug into the 2nd amp? How do you switch sounds? For example how would you go from playing a rhythm guitar to a synth lead without having the sound of the guitar amp still going?

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Granding,

 

While I really like the included sound libraries that came with the TriplePlay, I didn't want to lug a notebook to a gig. First I tried it out with my iPhone 6 and have decided to use an iPad Air instead. I downloaded SampleTank Free for IOS and purchased a nice Sonik sound library for $15.

 

So here is my setup:

 

JTV into Line 6 G30 Wireless. G30 into POD HD500. HD500 into DT25 via L6 Link cable (XLR).

Triple Play is wireless to a USB stick that is in the camera kit cable on the iPad.

iPad output to a Peavey Vypyr VIP 3. I've got it set to a bass amp model.

 

On the Triple Play, there is a control that lets you navigate through your patches. There is also a switch that is guitar, guitar and midi, or just midi. I leave that as just midi. If I roll the volume on the JTV off, I still get the synth sound but no guitar coming from the DT25. The Triple Play also has a volume know which I roll off when I don't want synth. Most of the time, both are on but it does require you to pay close attention to your picking technique. If you just want to mute your strings on the guitar and do a chunka-chunka sound, you'll actually be triggering midi notes which doesn't sound very good.

 

What also works out is for the songs that I use a JTV acoustic model, I just plug the JTV into the Peavey Vypyr and put it into acoustic amp model mode. It sounds really good in that amp.

 

In the SampleTank software on the iPad, I've set the presets up in order to match our set list. I can switch to the next patch I need on the Triple Play.

 

I have to be honest, it is a lot to think about during a set when you add in switching patches on the POD and activating delays, etc. on the POD via footswitch. I do have to stay focused on what I'm doing or things can go off the rails pretty quickly.

 

All told it is sort of an expensive rig for a part timer, but it is loads of fun and has changed our sound immensely.

 

Let me know if you need any more info.

 

Brent

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Is both an answer? ;) I had to make the same choice around this time last year.. I went with the DT25... Then a month later, Guitar Center had a random sale on the JTV59 for $1,000, so I asked Zzounds to price match and do 8 payments, which they did, sooo. I got the JTV59 too.

 

There are alot of options with all of these pieces; I was in a similar boat to you before I got the DT25 - I was using a Marshall Valvestate amp, and just running the 1/4" from the HD500 into the FX return of the amp, and sending the XLR outs from the HD500 to the PA / mixer, etc.

 

A year later, and I want to add a 2nd DT25 to the rig; and at some point will likely either need to get an HD500x or wait for the "next" option that Line6 puts out (I personally would hold off on spending ANY $$ until after Winter NAMM 2015 - just in case..)

 

Here's the thing, Radatats pointed out, and rightfully so - when you use the Line6Link from the HD500 to the DT25, it automatically put the HD into 'combo/poweramp' mode - which means that the XLR out from the HD500 are no longer suitable for sending to recording, PA, etc. Now, the DT25 XLR out is quite good, I use it with my band in place of using a microphone on my amp, and have gigged with it that way too.

 

He also mentioned that you will need to redesign all your tones for use with a DT amp, and that is also correct. The DT-HD500 interaction allows you to choose the preamp versions of the amp models, instead of the full versions, and thus allows the Bogner part of the DT amps to create the power amp part of the amp models, using analog tube power, rather than digital modeling.

 

As a result, there is a world of difference between the 'full range flat response' tonal quality of the HD500 when used with something like PA speakers, or the Stagesource speakers (L2, L3) vs the "amp in the room with you" that is the DT25, or with your Marshall and the HD500 in 'combo poweramp mode'.

 

For me the core of what makes the DT amps so awesome is the Bogner portion, However, the amp modeling *as is* on the HD500 is already really, really good. With the DT, if you use stereo FX *at all* you will need TWO DT25's. Yes, two. Because you can't run Line6Link to the DT25 AND use the XLR outs from the HD500. Well - you can, but it probably won't sound good, since the mic modeling is disabled, and the tones are voiced for the DT amp vs to a full range speaker system with a tweeter.

 

I guess for you, have you experimented much with running the HD500 in different output modes?

Looks like the Marshall you are using has an FX loop - this is crucial.

 

Do a test: try plugging the HD500 into the FX return of the Marshall, turn off the reverb on the amp, and load up a patch you like or use often. Set the HD500 first to "studio / direct" and play for a  bit, then switch it to "combo / poweramp" and play for a bit.

 

The studio direct tone contains the mic modeling, and should sound similar to a monitor mix, or what you would expect to hear from the main mix of a PA, or a recording signal. If possible, record that signal. The studio direct is like the control room sound, think of it as if your amp is in another room with a mic on it, and you are hearing that signal amplified through some other type of speakers.

 

Now, with the combo poweramp, this should sound more like being in the room with your amp next to you. The "playability" factor comes into play here, the sound will be less disconnected - it's the sound of the actual amp model as rendered by your Marshall power amp. Now here's the trick - since the HD500 doesn't sound good going out the XLR outs in this mode, try running the "emulated line out jack" from your Marshall in to the same recording interface. That signal should sound fine - my Marshall has a similar feature, and this is very similar to the type of signal the DT creates for the XLR DI out. 

 

Depending on which you prefer to hear when playing live, will help you make this decision.

 

For me, I have hearing problems, so it was 100% crucial that I have the DT25, on an amp stand, so I can hear myself.

 

I got drowned out trying to make the Marshall Valvestate keep up with a Fender Tweed, drum set and electric bass.

I also had a difficult time finding myself in the mix when using 'studio/direct' going to floor monitors or to keyboard amps.

Thing is, normal people's ears don't have a problem like I do, so that might not matter. Also, if your stage monitors or rehearsal monitors are really good, or if you have a soundguy who can get you dialed in, this also may not matter.

 

I run sound from the stage for my band, and we just wing it. I use the M20d which makes it pretty easy to get the sound dialed in, then save the settings and load them up for gigs, and we leave it all connected and dialed in at rehearsal, but it's stressful trying to both play and dial in the bands sound, vocals, etc.

 

With the DT25, I have no problems because what I hear coming from the amp itself is a fairly accurate rendition of what I will hear coming from the stage monitors or the main mix. When I was doing studio/direct, trying to balance my signal with vocals in the monitors, it was rough. but that is specific to my bands' scenario, and likely doesn't apply to everyone.

 

In the end, while I am gearing up to add a second DT25 to my rig, and hopefully a pair of L3m's for the main PA sound, I am inclined to agree with Radatats, in that the JTV does offer a huge palette of options which is likely to be of greater value to you in the short term over the DT25.. Hard call though!

 

I stick with my original take on it: figure out how to get both, even if it means doing payments on one, and buying the other out right.. Though, I also think - wait until NAMM 2015, just in case Line6 unveils some new version of the Variax, DT, Stagesource, or POD... Just in case! :)

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On the Triple Play, there is a control that lets you navigate through your patches. There is also a switch that is guitar, guitar and midi, or just midi. I leave that as just midi. If I roll the volume on the JTV off, I still get the synth sound but no guitar coming from the DT25. The Triple Play also has a volume know which I roll off when I don't want synth. Most of the time, both are on but it does require you to pay close attention to your picking technique. If you just want to mute your strings on the guitar and do a chunka-chunka sound, you'll actually be triggering midi notes which doesn't sound very good.

 

 

Brent

 

Thanks for the reply!  I had been using a Roland GR-55 with an HD500 for a few years, and I found it to be a clunky setup.  All I wanted to be able to was quickly switch from playing just a POD patch to just a GR-55 patch.  I ended up running the GR-55 out into the FX return of the POD and then creating a patch with just the FX on it which I would label "GR-55".  But it was clunky, as I would have to pre-select the patch on the GR-55 before selecting a patch on the POD.  It also ran the GR-55 into my amp, which is not an ideal sound.  As you said, you have to really pre-determine a lot to make it work.

 

I was looking at your setup, and my follow up question is: how quickly are you able to make those swtiches? You wrote that you roll off the JTV volume or roll of the FTP volume.  Is that just something you learn to do quickly on the fly?  I was thinking of switching from the GR-55 to the FTP (although I don't have an ipad so I'm not sure what I'd run it through).  I

 

Thanks again!

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I'm able to switch really quickly. The hardest part is that I run the FTP volume at about 6 and so I have to try to get it half way up.

 

If you don't mind lugging a laptop to the show, the sounds that Fishman include are really great. I've got the iPad on a iKlip holder attached to my microphone.

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