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how much will I need to fiddle with myhd 500x patches before my new dt 25 is gig ready


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So my new dt 25 head and 1x12 cab is on route and should arrive tomorrow, I have a rehersall tomorrow night and a gig on Saturday night, I really want to use the new amp, I can be very impatient like that, so here are the questions.

 

how much will I need to fiddle with my hd 500x patches to be gig ready.

What fiddling will I need to do, or can I just L6 link and get to it.

Or would I be better going in the front as I am with my current amp for the first time.

 

I just wanna be prepaired for when I plug in for the first time, which will be tomorrow night.  I have read that I would be better off using just pre amp models, which is fine a lot of my patches are just that, but what about the ones that aren't. and what is the topology all about and class a and a/b and how will this affect each tone if I fiddle can i return the settings to a default setting if it goes wrong, this will be my first valve amp so I am freaking out a little as I don't want to balls up my patches that have taken me so long to create, so to help I have already made a copy of my main set list and pre amped all my amps will this be enough.

 

 

Thanks 

Terry

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First Congrats!

Hard to tell.  You are bound to fiddle with them a bit. Yea get a cable and use the L6 link. It works woderfully and the when you move the amp settings ont the DT will adjust them on the POD, except for Reverb. Watch that one. The Reverb on the DT is a seperate (latest firmware anyway) reverb than what you have coming from the POD. FYI the DT is configurable 2 channel amp A and B. The POD over L6 link uses channel A. Channel B is not used by the POD.  Which if you added a latching pedal with the DT as foot switch, you could use it and leave set differently, althought with HD acting as the brains, I'm not sure what would gained by it.

 

1) You will likely want to use the Pre models as they tend to sound better but like the POD itself inn't exactly any rules so you might try them without changing them to see what you get.

 

2) *if* you can adjust the patches at stage volume using the DT. The tube will react a bit differently when it's cranked up. This is one of the biggest things to adjust to. The POD full model is *supposed* to emulate the sound of tube amp cranked up pretty good. Since you might not be able to get that same saturation at an acceptable volume you might need to adjust your gain settings some.

 

3) Dual amp setups can be bit tricky.  I would offers some advice here but I never been a dual amp type of guy, so my patches are most just one line.  Remember since the DT is a single source it is mono, unless you buy two of them, so any Stereo effects will be summed to mono. IMO, it actually does pretty well with this.

 

4) I think you will find your patches to be warmer and bit bigger sounding as well. That to me is the magic of the tubes! But again if you factored some of that into the patches then you might need adjust some!

 

5) When you setup patches the POD software automaticly sets the DT settings (topology, class, etc...)  to what is correct for the modeled amp.  But you can change them.  So more options to play with as long as you not trying perfectly match the original. Opens a whole new area to play with.

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Be prepared to change a lot to get really happy (but it's worth it).
How much you can get done to get by with the tones you already have and need for your gig is the big question only you can answer.
When there is any doubt, rely on what you know works (even if the DT will sit idle or not be optimally used for a while).
The topology and other DT settings will sound great but also make you redo your tones to get to level sound output. There are a few ways of approaching the problem, but I think that most compromise somewhere, and where that's acceptable will depend on your taste and type of music you play.
I had the best experience with moving the mixer to the very end of my effects chain and dial in reduced gain for all the DT power amp configurations that are louder than the lowest volume producing Pentode configuration (I don't use Triode yet). Doing this for your existing tones is probably not a quick effort and you should also make sure you like the outcome before you do the whole set. If you go this route you can use a PDF I posted a while ago as a rough guide to set the mixer so your tones are levelled for any DT power amp (Pentode) configuration. This only works simply if your HD tones going to the DT are already level with the mixer set a 0dB gain. My table only corrects for power amplification differences of the various DT configurations.
Good luck,
Martin

 

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Wow, that's gonna be interesting! It sounds like you will be able to make it work..

To a certain extent, you don't really need to do much other than Line6Link it, and start jamming.

 

Yes, technically, you want to use the 'pre' version of the amp models, but it's not going to prevent the DT from working properly if you use full amp models.

 

You will need to use the XLR out from the DT25 to feed the mixer / PA, not the XLR out from the HD500.

 

Biggest difference is between 'studio direct', and the 'combo poweramp' modes. When using Line6Link to connect the HD500 to the DT25, it will automatically force the DT25 into 'combo poweramp' mode, disabling the mic modeling part of the signal. The XLR DI out from the back of the DT takes the place of the XLR out from the HD500, and it's worth noting -

 

the DT25 XLR DI out is *MIC LEVEL* not line level. Yes, you will want to put that XLR into a standard mic channel strip, and likely will need to gain it up some, similar in gain structure to placing an SM57 or similar mic in front of the amp.

 

The HD500 1/4" outs are swithcable between LINE and mic level, line level is a much hotter / louder signal.

(I had this wrong originally, I wrote the XLR are line - the XLR out of the HD500 are mic level like the DT)

 

Beyond that, it really comes down to how you have been using the gear currently. If you currently run your HD500 into the front 1/4" jack of a guitar amp, you might need to do some work on the patches - depending on how much of your tone programming is dedicated to compensating for the difference in tone of plugging into the front jack vs the FX return.

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Wow, that's gonna be interesting! It sounds like you will be able to make it work..

To a certain extent, you don't really need to do much other than Line6Link it, and start jamming.

 

Yes, technically, you want to use the 'pre' version of the amp models, but it's not going to prevent the DT from working properly if you use full amp models.

 

You will need to use the XLR out from the DT25 to feed the mixer / PA, not the XLR out from the HD500.

 

Biggest difference is between 'studio direct', and the 'combo poweramp' modes. When using Line6Link to connect the HD500 to the DT25, it will automatically force the DT25 into 'combo poweramp' mode, disabling the mic modeling part of the signal. The XLR DI out from the back of the DT takes the place of the XLR out from the HD500, and it's worth noting -

 

the DT25 XLR DI out is *MIC LEVEL* not line level. Yes, you will want to put that XLR into a standard mic channel strip, and likely will need to gain it up some, similar in gain structure to placing an SM57 or similar mic in front of the amp.

 

The HD500 XLR outs are LINE level, which is a much hotter / louder signal.

 

Beyond that, it really comes down to how you have been using the gear currently. If you currently run your HD500 into the front 1/4" jack of a guitar amp, you might need to do some work on the patches - depending on how much of your tone programming is dedicated to compensating for the difference in tone of plugging into the front jack vs the FX return.

 

The HD500 XLR outs are made to be mic level. You can get them to line level but mic is the level they're built for.

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The HD500 XLR outs are made to be mic level. You can get them to line level but mic is the level they're built for.

 

Yes! Good catch. I had that mixed up with the 1/4", which have the line / mic level switch.

 

On a related, but slightly different topic:

 

how does the cabinet emulation on the DT actually work? is it pulling any info from the HD500, in terms of mic model?

I would guess no - I have no clue though. Seems like an effective extension of the HD XLR outs though - makes sense that the XLR outs stay mic level through out the various gear.

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The odds of you plugging in and being instantly pleased by the tone are essentially zero. This is normal, and largely unavoidable...unless you happen to be extraordinarily lucky. The overwhelming majority of users will spend hours on end trying to get everything "just right". It not a fault of the equipment per se, but rather the fact that there are so many options to choose from. Just don't expect all the patches you already have to sound the same through the new rig...it's more or less impossible.

 

Took me 2-3 weeks of daily poking around to get it to the point where I was happy with it, and comfortable enough to take it to a gig. A 48hr timeline from pulling it out of the box to putting it alongside you on stage is probably a bit unrealistic.

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Godspeed. Congrats.
One thing is for sure, if you invest the time, you'll reap well.  You'll learn so much more about how an amp works, and the relationship between the guitar, preamp section and power amp sections of the amp and how the delicate balance of each contribution only make the final outcome to be more wonderful.

Tubes react in unique ways.  Moreso, preamp tubes react their way, then power amp tubes react their way, and finding that perfect balance of just how much your preamp tubes drive your power amp tubes on a full on tube amp is what gives each amp its character. 

In modelling, you have even more options, and this is one of the things that I think creates a bias (no pun intended) against modelling technology, but if you invest the time to learn how these relationships work with one another, I think you'll find inspiration in creating unique combinations by tweaking the power amp modelling sections alone.  This is where the DT stuff shines in my opinion.

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Enjoy. I had a day to set up for a gig I have never used the 500x (got it new as a dream rig set up)in studio mode with all the mikes cab emulators etc so did not have any preconceived expectations. What I did is set up my dream rig direct via L6 link all amps set to pre  for a blues/rock gig so made it simple decided for earlier blues stuff to use deluxe reverb amp plus I set up so I could use 4 efx so tube screamer delay and trem etc next patch was in the territory of John Mayall-Free-Cream so set this up with a JTM45  plus 4 efx last patch was anything heavier than the first two to cover Gary Moore etc so this was set up the same except with a Brit J-800 this was a simple set up for the stuff I do out at a gig.  Now I have had the unit for a while I have all the time in the world to play around and discover more possibilities. Now if you play in a covers band that does anything from Hank Marvin to Steve Vai and anything inbetween then you have your work cut out for you if you are in a smaller musical niche then the way I am setting up at the moment is thinking what amp/fx the artist plays and set it up from scratch sometimes other amps than you expect sounds better.

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Just got back from rehearsals. Before I went I spent about an hour blasting through my patches and was quite surprised how good they sounded for most they needed a bit of gain adjustment,some needed some bass rolling off, that little mother has got some balls on it hasn't it . Whilst some will need a bit more love and care. My biggest problem is with three patches in specific. These patches have me a little puzzled. They are all similar in that they all need clean, dirty and a solo boost channels, for my dirty tone I have a jcm800 to boost it I use a boost compressor and a bit more drive from the od pedal, for clean I had been switching off the amp model which was working out well for me. This however does not work with the dt switch off the amp no sound? So to overcome I inserted a second amp but having a hell ish time trying to level the to amps and when switching between the two I get a lot of clunk snd noise from the amp. Can anyone find me a solution or am I over thinking it after all simplicity is efficiency. But all in all its gonna be a good gig me thinks.

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Glad to hear overall it's been well for you. As for the switch over clunck you might want to look at what the DT is having to swtich. Some of those can make some noise going from one class or topology to another.  Most are really smooth but there is one or two that will click on you.

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Just got back from rehearsals. Before I went I spent about an hour blasting through my patches and was quite surprised how good they sounded for most they needed a bit of gain adjustment,some needed some bass rolling off, that little mother has got some balls on it hasn't it . Whilst some will need a bit more love and care. My biggest problem is with three patches in specific. These patches have me a little puzzled. They are all similar in that they all need clean, dirty and a solo boost channels, for my dirty tone I have a jcm800 to boost it I use a boost compressor and a bit more drive from the od pedal, for clean I had been switching off the amp model which was working out well for me. This however does not work with the dt switch off the amp no sound? So to overcome I inserted a second amp but having a hell ish time trying to level the to amps and when switching between the two I get a lot of clunk snd noise from the amp. Can anyone find me a solution or am I over thinking it after all simplicity is efficiency. But all in all its gonna be a good gig me thinks.

If you have enough DSP space, you might consider what I've done with my disdain for switching between clean/crunch via an a/b box or similar in software.

 

I created a "morph" patch, see my patches at Custom Tone.  I rock the pedal forward for crunch, and back for clean, or any dynamic transition in between.  It's nice for building up from a clean verse to a heavier chorus or bridge & such, kind of like a crossfade on a recording.  Feel free to download it, then substitute your own preferred amps & tweak as needed.  It also has a solo/boost with some digital delay programmed to FS3, so I'm able to generally cover 3 functions with this one preset.  I say generally, because there are some times when I may need a bit more DSP for a particular preset and its function and may not have the needed application of changing from clean to crunch or back & forth.  It's nice to have for such application anyway.

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Well its gig night so fingers crossed. Had another fiddle with my troublesome patches and simplified them for this event. Will have to work out the bumps after. At the end of the day our sound is quite rough around the edges anyway so I don't think many folks will notice much change. But there's no turning back now hahaha.

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for clean I had been switching off the amp model which was working out well for me. This however does not work with the dt switch off the amp no sound? 

 

If you switch off the primary amp model in the HD500 the DT then defaults to however the physical settings on the DT amp itself are set.

 

One way to achieve that concept is using Radatats configuration, designed to make JTV acoustic models sound good through the DT.

Here are the basics, and I will track down the link to his actual post with more details:

 

you define amp model A in the HD500 based on the default power amp configuration you want to use on the DT. 

Then, you mute amp model A in the HD500. Then, you use amp path B to generate the clean tones you want -  by using no amp model.

The amp model choice in muted path A tells the DT which power amp configuration to use, while the settings / FX in path B generate the actual audio signal.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/5553-acoustic-solution-for-jtv-with-dt-amps/

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Gig has come and gone and it was not a complete train wreck I had a few volume and bottom end issues but over all I was very pleased with the way it worked out. I do feel that my preparation before getting the amp helped, ie making a copy of the set list and setting all to pre amp through out gave me a good base to start. I now have a week to get on top of the situation before my next rehersal. thanks to every one for your advice it helped a lot. just gotta pay off the dt and then save like crazy to get a jtv but thats a while away.

 

 

thanks again 

Terry

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