Yet another 4 cable method question

[DarrenSMusic]

I am a complete technophobe when it comes to trying out new things and to top it off, when I do eventually take the plunge I struggle getting to grips with gear and finding ways of doing myself as I have learning difficulties.

I've had a pod x3 live for a while now and I've been recommended to use the 4 cable method as I have an awesome amp with a stunning preamp but I don't use it

I've looked at it and there are no tutorials online to show me exactly how to set it up.

 

Here is exactly what I want to do..

 

I want to use my amplifier's preamp and assign stompboxes to all of the foot switches (excluding bank up/down, comp/boost and tap tempo) to come after my preamp with the option of using one of the footswitches to engage an amp model and bypass my amps preamp as and when I want it without having to swap banks in and out.

 

Is this possible? If so... How do I set it up on the pedal?

I can go without using the amp model but I thought it would be easier than having a channel switcher for my amp as well as my x3 live.

[Palico]

I want to use my amplifier's preamp and assign stompboxes to all of the foot switches (excluding bank up/down, comp/boost and tap tempo) to come after my preamp with the option of using one of the footswitches to engage an amp model and bypass my amps preamp as and when I want it without having to swap banks in and out.

 

 

You can use the the 4 cable method with an X3 live, however; you can not assign the footswtiches on the X3 Live (you can on the POD HD).  So you will not be able to set foot swtich to turn on/off the POD Amp and On/Off the Effects loops which would put your Amps PreAmp in and out. Now you could have multiple patches on the X3 Live where the POD Amp Model is off and the Amps PreAmp is on and vise verse.

 

You basic hook up would be the same as the Pod HD, there are youtube vids for that. You just will not have as much flexablity going back and forth between the Gutiar PreAmp and POD one.

[DarrenSMusic]

Couldn't I use "stomp box mode" just to use the effects then?

I'd love to be able to use the EQ on and off as well as the comp, delay, reverb and chorus or flanger.

[DarrenSMusic]

And even use a volume boost in there somewhere

[Palico]

You sure you looking a X3 live?  There is no "Stomp Box Mode" to the X3. What you describe is competely possible on the POD HD units. On the X3 the the buttons are hard assigned to the "Stomp" (gain type effects) "Mod" Modulations (Chorus, tremolo, etc...) Delay and Compressor/Boost.  While the EQs and other effects you can turn on a off by changing patches you don't have  buttons specfically of them.  So you could setup patches that change with different setting and swtich between entire patches.  I'm no MIDI expert but perhaps, if you used a seperate MIDI controller you could pass in the change that way.

[Palico]

Also yes, if you turn off the Amp in the POD you could certinally use the POD X3 for just effects.  Just no way other than change a patch to turn it on and off within the same patch, other than having a computer attached via USB or perhaps maybe via MIDI.

[DarrenSMusic]

Ok, so is it possible to just turn on and off fx and have them run through the poweramp including the stomp button as a volume/gain boost (or use the comp/boost switch) but still using my amps preamp? And the wah pedal through the amps preamp? And maybe turn an amp model on/off instead of using my preamp?

or would i just need to set up a patch then turn fx on and off in that patch?

Im struggling to get my head around this :/

[Palico]

Ok, so is it possible to just turn on and off fx and have them run through the poweramp including the stomp button as a volume/gain boost (or use the comp/boost switch) but still using my amps preamp? And the wah pedal through the amps preamp? And maybe turn an amp model on/off instead of using my preamp?

or would i just need to set up a patch then turn fx on and off in that patch?

Im struggling to get my head around this :/

 

Yes you can do that, for all the pedals that X3 has already assigned and FX button for. Stomp Mod Delay Compressor/boost and Wah (sorry forgot about that one!).

 

The only thing you will have to have seperate patches for is if you want to swtich betwen the PODS PreAmp and your Guitar Amps PreAmp and effects pedals that don't have a assigned footswitch, e.g. EQ pedal.

[DarrenSMusic]

Right. Got you.

So i could essentially set it up to do as follows..

Patch A. Amp drive preamp with fx.

Patch B. Amp drive preamp (but louder volume eg solo boosted patch) with fx.

Patch C. Pod X3 clean Preamp model with fx.

Patch D. Pod X3 drive Preamp model with fx.

Is this correct?

[DarrenSMusic]

I'd also like to deactivate the tone1/2 button and the option altogether. How can i do this? Also how can I add my amp preamp into the patch and take out the pod x3 preamp?

[DarrenSMusic]

I'd also like to deactivate the tone1/2 button and the option altogether. How can i do this? Also how can I add my amp preamp into the patch and take out the pod x3 preamp?

[Palico]

I'd also like to deactivate the tone1/2 button and the option altogether. How can i do this? Also how can I add my amp preamp into the patch and take out the pod x3 preamp?

I'm not sure what you referencing on the tone 1/2 button?

 

The four cable method basically works this way.

Gutiar -> POD (Cable 1). Signal into the POD.

POD Effects loop send -> Guitar Amp IN. (Cable 2)

Guitar Amp Effect Send -> POD effects return (Cable 3)

POD Output -> Guitar Amp Effect Return (Cable 4).

 

Signal Path:

1. So you have the signal coming from the guitar to the POD.

 

2. On the patch you assign your effect you want before the Gutiars Pre amp. Such as dist. etc.... so the signal is then processed by these effects.

 

3. Set the Amp model in the POD to No Amp/Off.  Disables the POD as Pre Amp.

 

4. Enable the Effects loop on the POD. Since the POD Effects send is hooked to the guitar amp in. The signal is then routed to the guitar amps pre amp.  NOTE you will have to play with volume levels on the POD send and guitar amps input to find what works best.

 

5. After the guitar amps pre amp processes the signal. The amp then sends that to the Guitar Amps Effects loop Send. That cable is hooked to the POD Effects Return. So the guitar pre amp has processed the signal now is coming back to the POD. 

 

6. Any effects you have AFTER the effects loop will now be processed by the POD. Usually Chorus, verb, etc....

 

7. The POD outputs the signal on the out bound. Since that is hooked the Guitar Amps Effects Return the signal is send to the Guitars power amp. And of course amplified and to the speakers etc....

 

So on the POD itself the Effects loop will represent your guitar amplifiers pre amp. Turn it on or off on patch to control weather the signal is sent to it or not. 

[DarrenSMusic]

I managed to download the software to edit patches (stompbox style and in the 4 cable method) but now when i hit my drive channel there's a whiny hissy feedback sort of sound. Any ideas?

[Palico]

Not sure exactly but on High gain setting feedback can be a problem, turn your gain down or turn on your noise gate.

[PROSPECT-001]

Hi, could you please help me out. I also use the X3 Live but I'm not shure where to exactly connect to my amp (Peavey TKO115 scorpion bass amp) I "play" guitar but I use a bass amp because....well I don't realy know. :rolleyes: 
My guitar goes into X3Live GUITAR IN.
The X3Live FX SEND goes to the AMP INPUT.
Now;
The X3Live FX RETURN do I connect it to the CHORUS/EFFECT PATCH SEND or to the PRE OUT PATCH ?
The X3Live OUT L/MONO to CHORUS/EFFECT PATCH RETURN or to PATCHES PWR IN ?
Thank you for your time.

[Palico]

U wanting to use the X3 live for amp models or just effects as well?

[PROSPECT-001]

Hi, uh well..... I would say first of all for the effects.

 

Why is there any specific method just for the amp models?

Thank you in advance.

[Palico]

The POD provides two things for you. 1. It a good bit of build in effects boxes. Just like real stomp boxes some of those work better after the pre-amp (e.g. in the effects loop), some work better in front of the amp.  2. It is a modeller so it has models of lots of amps and cabnets in it.  Those function as PreAmps.  Your bass amp is designed to funtion as complete amp by itself.  It has a preamp and power amp section.  So you have a choice here, you can use the POD for the modeller preamps and general stomp box effects and use the Peavey to amplify that sound.  Or you can use the Peavey's preamp (maybe you like it better than the PODs preamps?) and use the POD for just for the onboard stomp box effects. On the X3 you have to choose one or the other on the HD500(x) you actually can use either.  I supposed on the POD you could use either on patch by patch basis.

 

If you want to use the Amp models on the POD and never intent to the use the pre-amp on the guitar amplier your setup is simpler, just two cables.

1. Cable 1: Instrument -> POD

2. Select amps/cab/ you like on the POD.

3. Add effects, you can turn this on and off with the swtiches on the POD.

4. Set the POD output mode to "Combo Power Amp"

5. Cable 2: POD Live out -> "Patch" Power Amp In. 

6. Adjust either "Master" on the POD or the "Post" on the Peavey to adjust volume level. I'm not really sure as I can't find how that "Post" level knob on the Peavey is designed.

 

If you like the overall sound of the Peavey and want just the stomp box effects on the POD you will need 4 cables and you will be using the 4 cable method.

1. Instrument -> POD

2. Select the effects you want on the POD.

3. Set the Amp model on the POD to None.

4. Cable 2: POD effects send -> Peavey High Gain in (try low gain might work better?)

5. Adjust EQ on the Peavey to be what you want.

6. Cable 3: Peavey "Patch" Pre Out to POD effects return.

7. Cable 4: POD Live out -> Peavey "Patch" Power Amp In.

8. Balance your volume using the POD Master and controls on the Peavey. Careful not to overdrive levels unless you like overdrive and that's what you want.

 

Being you are running a guitar into a bass rig you might have to use a bit more high and presences in the EQ than normal. But then again the famous Fender Bassman was really a Bass guitar amp too, and SRV used Bass gutiar amps and/or cabs from time to time as well. A bass guitar cab might actually work out better if your into heavy detuned music and it will produce the low end sound better.

Hope this helps you get this working.

[Palico]

Oh I forgot to add. I have not idea on what that "Chorus-Effects" patch is. I assume it is likely a parallel type of effects loop with a set Dry/Wet mix. Those are not really useful with a POD.

[PROSPECT-001]

Hi there...I don't know what to say...you're incredible.

Thank you so much for your interest and realy great advise and support.

I will try them out asap.

 

BTW: just for your info.

The manual says that the PATCH CHORUS/EFFECTS SEND is a High pass output above 200 Hz for supplying signals to external effects or signal processing

equipment... :wacko:

 

Thanks again.

[Palico]

BTW: just for your info.

The manual says that the PATCH CHORUS/EFFECTS SEND is a High pass output above 200 Hz for supplying signals to external effects or signal processing

equipment... :wacko:

 

 

Your welcome, hopefuly the information helps you get the tone you desire.

 

That really odd one!  I guess it's something really more for Bass guitar. I'm guessing that would still be a parllel loop with band pass filter on it then. On Bass guitar the last thing I would want to do is lose the low end! But I can certinaly see pass just the high end of the signal over light chorusing effect, so it would add thickness to the bass guitar but not muddy it up to much. Hmmmm. Maybe I just learned a new recording trick for bass guitar! I could simulate that in a DAW. Never thought if it before.

[Brazzy]

The POD provides two things for you. 1. It a good bit of build in effects boxes. Just like real stomp boxes some of those work better after the pre-amp (e.g. in the effects loop), some work better in front of the amp.  2. It is a modeller so it has models of lots of amps and cabnets in it.  Those function as PreAmps.  Your bass amp is designed to funtion as complete amp by itself.  It has a preamp and power amp section.  So you have a choice here, you can use the POD for the modeller preamps and general stomp box effects and use the Peavey to amplify that sound.  Or you can use the Peavey's preamp (maybe you like it better than the PODs preamps?) and use the POD for just for the onboard stomp box effects. On the X3 you have to choose one or the other on the HD500(x) you actually can use either.  I supposed on the POD you could use either on patch by patch basis.

 

Great Stuff Palico!!

[JayLabreck]

I've just recently purchased a line 6 pod x3 pro rack I've set it up to 4 cm and I'm having a issue with getting the volume to be loud. Right now its muffled and obviously not loud enough for a show. Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated. I've had luck in the past with the pod hd500x but for some reason this is being a pain.

[alan3666]

On 1/14/2015 at 7:00 PM, Palico said:

I'm not sure what you referencing on the tone 1/2 button?

 

The four cable method basically works this way.

Gutiar -> POD (Cable 1). Signal into the POD.

POD Effects loop send -> Guitar Amp IN. (Cable 2)

Guitar Amp Effect Send -> POD effects return (Cable 3)

POD Output -> Guitar Amp Effect Return (Cable 4).

 

Signal Path:

1. So you have the signal coming from the guitar to the POD.

 

2. On the patch you assign your effect you want before the Gutiars Pre amp. Such as dist. etc.... so the signal is then processed by these effects.

 

3. Set the Amp model in the POD to No Amp/Off.  Disables the POD as Pre Amp.

 

4. Enable the Effects loop on the POD. Since the POD Effects send is hooked to the guitar amp in. The signal is then routed to the guitar amps pre amp.  NOTE you will have to play with volume levels on the POD send and guitar amps input to find what works best.

 

5. After the guitar amps pre amp processes the signal. The amp then sends that to the Guitar Amps Effects loop Send. That cable is hooked to the POD Effects Return. So the guitar pre amp has processed the signal now is coming back to the POD. 

 

6. Any effects you have AFTER the effects loop will now be processed by the POD. Usually Chorus, verb, etc....

 

7. The POD outputs the signal on the out bound. Since that is hooked the Guitar Amps Effects Return the signal is send to the Guitars power amp. And of course amplified and to the speakers etc....

 

So on the POD itself the Effects loop will represent your guitar amplifiers pre amp. Turn it on or off on patch to control weather the signal is sent to it or not. 

 

 

 

Thanks for this. I had to draw a diagram to fully understand but it's helped me a lot.

 

Alan3666

[m6255]

I don’t know how old this post is but if you use the 4 cable method it will automatically do what you want. First of all the x3 pro has a switch to turn off the amp in the patch your in. You can choose to save it if you want the patch to default that way. 2. I have several tube amps. I’ve got two vintage 80s PeaVey hybrid 212 combos the vt and the vtx. Those have effects loops but when you are plugged into the effects looop on the back of those you automatically eliminate the preamp, unless you use the 4 cable method. Then when you toggle the amp off and on with the x3 it should go back and forth with using the pre to that amp. I have a Bugera V55 head. I had a v22 head but sold it I’m kicking myself now because I love using the modulation effects in stereo.. the Bugera v 22 and 55 both have a switch on the amp as well as in their foot switch to turn the effects loop off and on. The simple way is use the 4 chord method. There are a million examples on YouTube. Richie Castellano a lead guitarist with BLUE OYSTER CULT uses line 6 Variax Standard, I love that guitar, plus he has a helix live he permanently keeps with blue oyster cult while at his home studio he uses the Helix pro which is the rack version of helix. That’s the most expensive option because you should get the floor box with that as well. Not required but functions easier. Depending on what you can afford line 6 makes the helix FX which is the helix minus any amp patches. I don’t have one yet because well I can’t afford it yet but I’ll be getting the helix pro to replace my X3 pro. When I bought my X3 pro line 6 heralded it as the most advanced guitar system ever. That’s until they came out with the hd boards but now the hd boards are antique compared to the helix. It would take me all day to tell you what it does. For example your X3 has one set of fx loop . The helix has 4 sets I believe.

go to the above YouTube channel make sure you subscribe to richies 3 channels I think and be repaired to be blown away. I know line 6 doesn’t pay Richie a penny but they should . He is a master with ... lollipop everything. He is an amazing guitar player and singer and amazing recording engineer. He will show you the 4 cable method and the 5 cable method for using your X3 for FX only and I hope the 5 cable works with the x3. With the helix he’ll show you how to have one center tube amp. To use that pre amp with 2 other tube amps but those he just uses the power section. Then when he uses the helix harmonizer which when you play 1 string you hear 3 strings in harmony. Furthermore you hear the main lead in the center channel and the first harmony to your left and the second harmony to your right. Oh yeah the helix has a looper too plus it’s has so many functions it makes out x3s like from the Stone Age. Visit Richie and line 6 you should make him a Richie Castellano Variax standard and helix and pay the guy. Nobody I’ve ever listened to demonstrating your products including me who ownes a ton of line 6 product can demonstrate line 6 better than him. You’ll see full songs done by his separate studio band showing the wonders f helix and Variax, so there ya go, a top name guitarist using everything line 6 . If you younger guys don’t know who BLUE OYSTER CULT IS SHAME IN YOU. “Don’t fear the reaper” etc. great 70s band I don’t think Richie was born yet when BOC first started. But he’s living my dream life. Too bad I’m as old as the founders of BOC and don’t have a 10th the talent of Richie. On YouTube check out Richie Castellano’s version of Bohemian Rhapsody it’s amazing. When he’s not on the road with BOC he’s in his studio playing and recording covers awsome covers plus he and his musical wife who also has a band play out together. And his younger sister in law boy can she sing while she makes your eyes bleed. 
 

the above link is for you. Is Richie setting up a helix fx for his stubborn dad because his dad also has a band and he’s a tube purest no digital anything until Richie sold him on the helix fx . Effects only box about 1/3 the price of a helix. 
check them out all your questions will be answered.